Stage 8: Civitanova Marche - Maielletta Passo Lanciano, 171 km

[whiteboytrash]

In only his 3rd year on the Pro Tour while riding domestique for Savoldelli, and finishing 2:25 down on Basso, and around 1:00 behind Simoni and Di Luca, I consider that mixing it with the best climbers. The kid has a bright future.

The only mixing with the best climbers TommyD did was on the flat stages..... bright future ? He is 27 and a drop-out... he didn't even want to ride his bike some 4 years ago.... Lance needs to stop filling the boy with false hope... Basso is 28 and he is a legend all ready. Thats the difference.

 

[Rhubarb]

Your hate for DC is really quite amusing WBT. Maybe you and Mussette should hook up - opposites attract and all that.

If your issue with DC is that they are a second class team why do we not hear of your scorn for other second class teams?

So why is it, WBT, that you hate DC so much?

Was it a team-order to get smashed in the TTT and to drop 2.20" on the first mountain climb of the Giro ? Phooey ! Where were the other 7 DC riders ? Team orders to take it easy to lull Basso into a false sense of security ?

On the TTT thread of you DC fans said that CSC should of beaten DC in the TTT because "CSC was full of TT's and DC had climbers"... where were the climbers on Sunday when Il Falco needed them most ? Second rate team DC. Even Saunier-Duval had a better day... even the Italian team who wear orange who are sponsored by a concrete manufacturer had a better day and I don't even know what the name of the team is !

 

[micron]

The fact is, as soon as the road went up Danielson went off the back - not taking it easy, being dropped by the ferocious pace set by Basso and (especially) Sastre. Savoldelli managed to hang on for another 6kms on his own without Danielson making any attempt to get back to him.

Look at the Vuelta results from last year - on every mountain stage Danielson lost between 1' 30" and 4' - if he were 'mixing it with the best climbers' in this Giro he wouldn't a) be straight off the back on the first hard climb and b) would be at least putting in one attack or a strong pull on the front for his team leader.

There's only one possible reason for not wanting to do well in a stage or taking it easy - to avoid the doping controls - and surely that wouldn't be Disco's strategy, would it?

 

[Rhubarb]

The only mixing with the best climbers TommyD did was on the flat stages..... bright future ? He is 27 and a drop-out... he didn't even want to ride his bike some 4 years ago.... Lance needs to stop filling the boy with false hope... Basso is 28 and he is a legend all ready. Thats the difference.

I think calling Basso a legend, is at least, slightly premature. He hasn't actually won a GT yet.

However I think it would be more than fair enough to say that Ivan has a very bright future.

 

[guncha]

Was it a team-order to get smashed in the TTT and to drop 2.20" on the first mountain climb of the Giro ? Phooey ! Where were the other 7 DC riders ? Team orders to take it easy to lull Basso into a false sense of security ?

On the TTT thread of you DC fans said that CSC should of beaten DC in the TTT because "CSC was full of TT's and DC had climbers"... where were the climbers on Sunday when Il Falco needed them most ? Second rate team DC. Even Saunier-Duval had a better day... even the Italian team who wear orange who are sponsored by a concrete manufacturer had a better day and I don't even know what the name of the team is !

I agree that DC failed in TTT.

Danielson was TOGETHER with Paolo on the final climb, and Danielson worked to limit loses as much as possiblbe... Both Piepoli and Danielson worked for their leaders despite the fact that they could probably do better in this stage... In TDF2004 Kloden left Ullrich to struggle alone, in this case there is team support, doesn't it... You should watch Russian coverage of Eurosport to notice that... I usually watch English coverage on Eurosport 2 when there is highlights session...

 

[wolfix]

Just an observation here ........ several actually..... but hasn't danielson won as many GT'S as the legend Basso has???? Zero ..... And does anyone get the impression that Riis looks an awful lot like Elmer Fudd? Here is a clip of Riis giving Basso advice at this years CSC training caMP ......
http://www.nonstick.com/sounds/Elmer_Fudd/ltef_022.wav

 

[whiteboytrash]

As Micro stated... as soon as the road went up TommyD went out the back.... Paolo battled on but could not hold the relentless pace set by Sastre... TommyD was only able to ride back to Savoldelli when Il Falco was totally spent... if you want to talk about team unity, why Did Savoldelli beat TommyD by five seconds at the end of the stage ? Danielson rode him up the mountain only for Paolo to attack him and gain 5 seconds ! That’s not team work ! That’s sending a message to the team manager !

The Russain version of EuroSport will also tell you that DC are in disarray ! (Opps wrong thread !)

I agree that DC failed in TTT.

Danielson was TOGETHER with Paolo on the final climb, and Danielson worked to limit loses as much as possiblbe... Both Piepoli and Danielson worked for their leaders despite the fact that they could probably do better in this stage... In TDF2004 Kloden left Ullrich to struggle alone, in this case there is team support, doesn't it... You should watch Russian coverage of Eurosport to notice that... I usually watch English coverage on Eurosport 2 when there is highlights session...

 

[guncha]

Basso is 28 and he is a legend all ready. Thats the difference.

From the last 15 years there are three legends IMO- Indurain, Pantani and Lance... Has Basso ever won a Grand Tour? He still has to do it and consistency is his biggest problem as he always had at least one really bad day in last tours.... Afromentioned three guys suffer much less from inconsistency...

 

[micron]

WBT don't you despair of being told what happened in a race by people who followed text updates and didn't actually watch with their own 2 eyes?

Wolfix, at least Basso has finished on the podium of a GT and won mountain stages in both the TdF and the Giro - the biggest of them all - please don't try and compare Tour of Georgia or some hill climbs...

and I disagree about Elmer Fudd - he's always been Homer Simpson on a bike to me

 

[guncha]

As Micro stated... as soon as the road went up TommyD went out the back....

Because his task wasn't to give everything in this stage and according to Russian Eurosport DC has only one leader and TommyD works for him. I assume DC underestimated yesterday's stage and they didn't have to send Danielson back in the beginning...

if you want to talk about team unity, why Did Savoldelli beat TommyD by five seconds at the end of the stage ? Danielson rode him up the mountain only for Paolo to attack him and gain 5 seconds !

Look at the finish of stage 7 and you'll notice it...

The Russain version of EuroSport will also tell you that DC are in disarray ! (Opps wrong thread !)

They didn't say that during yesterday's coverage...

 

[whiteboytrash]

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Because his task wasn't to give everything in this stage and according to Russian Eurosport, DC has only one leader and TommyD works for him.

Huh ? Saunier Duvall had two riders, Lampre had three, CSC had 2 and DC told Tommy D to drop back and save himself for later ??? leaving Salvodelli on his own to fend for himself ! Yeah right... I'm sure that was the plan !

I'm not sure who is commentating on Russian EuroSport but it was obvious to see what happened to both TommyD and Salvodelli.... no team would ever have the strategy to abandon your leader in the lead group !

Now excuse me why I go down to Groks nightclub and dance the night away to some bad 80's music.

.

 

[Eldrack]

I am thinking that Savoldelli had a bad day. Lets hope its the only one. Same for Di Luca, I would like to see him climbing better in the last week after struggling on the past two days. Why? The more contenders, the more interesting it gets . It would be boring if Basso just crushed everyone beneath his feet on every mountain stage.

 

[rule62]

Now if Basso can sustain his effort, and not let a bad day take him out, he may be starting to turn the corner. Should be interesting for him and CSC from here on out.

 

[guncha]

DC told Tommy D to drop back and save himself for later ??? leaving Salvodelli on his own to fend for himself ! Yeah right... I'm sure that was the plan !

And they were wrong because they underestimated Basso in this stage...

Two charecters about DC:
1.) They have one leader.
2.) Every rider has its own task in every single stage.

I'm not sure who is commentating on Russian EuroSport but it was obvious to see what happened to both TommyD and Salvodelli.... no team would ever have the strategy to abandon your leader in the lead group !

Ex-cyclist comments here, and he is quite close to ex-Soviet riders, and sometimes there is information you can't get everywhere else...

I am not saying DC will be back but you can't judge about the form of Danielson after this stage... They only certain thing is that Savoldelli lost more time than they expected...

 

[Virenque]

I am thinking that Savoldelli had a bad day. Lets hope its the only one.

That can be a good excuse! "I have 14 bad days in this Giro..how unlucky.."

It can be a bad day, but it`s very unlikely..

 

[thebluetrain]

Basso is 28 and he is a legend all ready. Thats the difference.

Once again, another exaggeration. Your posts are starting to follow a pattern. Ease up on the caffeine man.

 

[musette]

Suffice it to say that Basso has not won yet any Grand Tour. True, he appears well-positioned now, but he is not assured of winning this Giro.

 

[saluki]

As Micro stated... as soon as the road went up TommyD went out the back.... Paolo battled on but could not hold the relentless pace set by Sastre... TommyD was only able to ride back to Savoldelli when Il Falco was totally spent... if you want to talk about team unity, why Did Savoldelli beat TommyD by five seconds at the end of the stage ? Danielson rode him up the mountain only for Paolo to attack him and gain 5 seconds ! That’s not team work ! That’s sending a message to the team manager !

The Russain version of EuroSport will also tell you that DC are in disarray ! (Opps wrong thread !)

Considering that TommyD was able to catch Savoldelli and pace him up the mountain, and considering that TommyD beat Sastre up the mountain by a minute and a half, it's doubtful that he needed to go off the back end as early as he did. Also remember that TommyD was there to lead out Savoldelli on Saturday when Sastre had already disappeared for Basso.

So why did he go off so early. I don't know if it was team orders of if he wanted to pick an early pace that he was sure he could maintain for the entire climb. But I'm sure that he had not blown up at the point where he dropped off. One thing seems to be certain to me. TommyD doesn't have much fire in his belly. His attitude and agression seem to be more lacking than his talent.

At this point I would say that Savoldelli has no chance of winning. So if I'm Bruneel I tell TommyD that in the next mountain stage he is to lock on to Basso's wheel and stay there until he either finnishes or blows up. No casual personal pacing allowed. Bruneel needs to know if he has anything in TommyD or not. So run the test and let him pass it or fail it.

Concerning that last 5 second loss to Savoldelli, that says nothing. Savoldelli can also blow out Basso for a short interval on a hill. Savoldelli has more leg power, and for a short anaerobic period he can beat most people.

You also have a point about the rest of the team. There are people like Rubiera and Beltran who are paid to help in the climbs, but who disappear before the climbs even begin. The last time these guys, as well as Aceveto, earned their money, was in the 2004 TDF. Bruneel needs to realize that his Spanish armada has gone into active retirement and he needs to get rid of them. They are even a liability in the TTT.

 

[saluki]

I am thinking that Savoldelli had a bad day. Lets hope its the only one. Same for Di Luca, I would like to see him climbing better in the last week after struggling on the past two days. Why? The more contenders, the more interesting it gets . It would be boring if Basso just crushed everyone beneath his feet on every mountain stage.

In an interview before the start of the Giro Savoldelli explained that he was not a pure climber and that this was a Giro for pure climbers. I tend to agree with him. Look at Savoldelli climbing. He seems to be trying to wressel the bike up the mountain. Basso's form and cadence looks the same if he is on the flat or if he is climbing. In other words, I don't think there is any chance of a comeback for Savoldelli. In fact, things will probably get worse. Danielson could probably do better than Savoldelli in the mountains if the team turns him loose. But he still wouldn't be a treat to Basso.

Watching Basso in the last two TDF's it looks like his best climbs are his early climbs. In fact, I remember Floyd Landis riding Basso off his wheel in the final climb of the 2004 TDF. So it may be a little early to rule Cunego out of the race. Problem is that Cunego will have to overcome both his current gap plus whatever he will loose in the upcoming ITT. The odds are with Basso.

 

[micron]

But there's a huge difference between Danielson pacing Savoldelli to a loss of only 2' 21" and the work that Sastre was doing - which was to set a pace that was so hard that it thinnned the group from the start - including getting rid of Danielson, who was clearly suffering. He was not seen getting back on to the group as Rujano managed to do and was only seen very much later pacing Savoldelli - unsurprising as by that point he'd had about 11 kms in which to recover and Savoldelli waited rather than being caught by Danielson.

Why would Danielson choose to drop off the pace voluntarily to act as a back up for Savoldelli? That simply doesn't make any sense. Did Yates think Savoldelli was going to fail? You'd hope not. Then why hang your team leader out to dry in the Basso group and let him struggle on for another 6kms alone in that group? That doesn't make any sense either.

Discovery are obviously employing the most bizarre tactics in this race - deliberately throwing the TTT, deliberately abandoning your team leader in the first big selection on the first big climb? If the point is to make Basso quake in his boots and undermine his confidence before the tough climbs of the third week - well, it's quite clearly not working is it?