Stage 8 TDF : Sunday, July 15: Le-Grand-Bornand - Tignes, 165km

[fscyclist]

I wonder if the old mangement from T Mobile all went to Astana. Stupid tactics and Kloeden is getting screwed again. Isn't this a carbon copy of what they did to him in 2005 when he was waiting for Jan?

If Astana cuts him free, I think Kloeden would be the favorite after today. He obviously can hang in the mountains, and of that group he has the best TT. At this point he's easily within striking distance.

Cadel and LL are twins that live on different continents. All hype. I hope Disco gets behind Contador, he's the most exciting person to ever ride for that team.

 

[patch70]

moronic T-Mobile to chase there own man Rogers.

I think you'll find that is called "setting false tempo".

 

[Andrew76]

It may be boring tactics, but I think Disco had a huge day on stage 8. First they send George up the road with anohter team mate, which suggest George was tanking in stage 7. This caused some major shuffling in the peloton, taking out Rabo (except for Rassmusan) and even causing moronic T-Mobile to chase there own man Rogers. Then towards the end they send Popo and Contador up the road to mix it up and weaken some of the main contenders. All of the while LL is in the shelter of a steady peloton and he even gains time on Vino and Kloden at the end. The only riders who were as smart were Sastre and Menchov. I think as the tour goes on LL, Sastre and Menchov will be the ones to watch. The others simply beat each other up in a street fight for little gain.

Well you can scratch Kloden from your brilliant analysis - not his fault he was told to slow down. And well done LL on beating a guy recovering from a pretty nasty accident. Not that LL ever made any effort to set the pace. Top riding...

Popo added nothing to the breakaway and went backwards shortly thereafter.

There are at least 3 or 4 teams better than Disco - Rabo, Caisse D'Epagne, Saunier, Astana and T-Mobile until one very unfortunate moment (think Rogers, Kirchen, Gerdemanns - they would've all been ahead of all the Disco chaps).

One thing Disco does have going for them is Contador. If come the end of the race LL finishes ahead of Contador then I will take my hat off to your foresight, but in the meantime several dozen other posters to this forum dont support your views.

 

[RdBiker]

As Vino felt himself fading, he should have had Kash drop back. There was a gap of less than thirty seconds at that point. Then let Klodi ride his own pace. I don't see Kash as a true threat to the overall, so he did not need to stick with Moreau.

Klodi kept looking back to make sure Vino could hold the pace. Given free reign Klodi probably would have caught Moreau's group.

Well it seems to me that Astana are trying to keep all their three contenders in the GC race.

Klöden: Seems to be the best timetrialist of the top-20

Kashechkin: Good climber and based on the Prologue a good TT:er also (lost just 5sec to Vino)

Vino: Well we all know why Astana want to keep him in the GC race

When looking to minimize losses it seems perfectly clear why Astana let Kashechkin break away and left Klöden to help Vino. Klöden can outmatch all the other GC contenders in the TT's and so he did not need to gain time on this stage. Vino on the other hand can't afford to lose any time because his TT isn't that exceptional and that's why he needed Klöden's help.

I found some results of last year's 52K TT and based on that (and the Prologue times because all the top-12 today didn't ride in that TT) I made a new top-12 list assuming that the two 54K TTs would be ridden right after this 8th stage:

1. Klöden
2. Gerdemann -2.00
3. Kashechkin -3.30
4. Evans -3.45
5. Contador -3.45
6. Valverde -5.00
7. Menchov -5.00
8. Vinokourov -5.15
9. Leipheimer -5.30
10. Moreau -6.00
11. Sastre -8.00
12. Mayo -8.00
Rasmussen -9.00

So even though I'm making very big assumptions in this GC list it shows that this may be something the Astana team is counting on. Leave out Gerdemann who'll probably lose more time in the coming mountain stages and the two Astana boys and Vino's got under two minutes to the yellow jersey.

I don't admit it wasn't stupid in Klöden's point of view to wait for Vino and not make gain on the GC but you've got to remember which country Astana's sponsor comes from

 

[limerickman]

I agree : I think Astana got it correct yesterday, apart from Kloden having to stay with Vino.
If you look at it they've three men high on GC.

However, I think Vino's crash has hurt him more than it would appear.
He doesn't look happy out there.

 

[davidbod]

Well you can scratch Kloden from your brilliant analysis - not his fault he was told to slow down. And well done LL on beating a guy recovering from a pretty nasty accident. Not that LL ever made any effort to set the pace. Top riding...

Popo added nothing to the breakaway and went backwards shortly thereafter.

There are at least 3 or 4 teams better than Disco - Rabo, Caisse D'Epagne, Saunier, Astana and T-Mobile until one very unfortunate moment (think Rogers, Kirchen, Gerdemanns - they would've all been ahead of all the Disco chaps).

One thing Disco does have going for them is Contador. If come the end of the race LL finishes ahead of Contador then I will take my hat off to your foresight, but in the meantime several dozen other posters to this forum dont support your views.

I loved the action yesterday, and can only imagine Contador would have flown free for a solo third if only for the flat. Perhaps he and Valverde would have duked it out ahead of the Moreau group? My point is that we are only through week one and this is a hard three weeks. All the attacking that went on in the Moreau group was great to watch, but they all may end up paying for it down the road. We'll have to watch and see.

If Contador remains as strong as he is now for the full three weeks, and can put together some good TTing he will certainly be the Disco rider to watch for gc.

 

[Frihed89]

Not a word about Schleck! He rode effortlessly up to the pursuing pack to protect Sastre who was back with Vino. He ran down Moreau twice and Mayo once, whilst refusing to go with anyone on their attacks. Sure enough, Sastre was able to move up, thanks to Frank's efforts.

He will be helping Sastre until or if Sastre folds. If so, he will be given the green light to race for the GC. He's not a strong TT rider yet, but he may win a mountain stage and will do well in the GC.

He and Rasmussen are my outside favourites.

I don't care for any of the rest of them, except Sastre and Zubadela.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Interest stage on Tuesday...... although there is a 35km run in to the finish.....

From memory Vino and Botero had a 3 minute lead over the Galiber to have it reduced by 2 minutes....... some serious climbing thou...... strategy will be interesting..... my pick is for Evans to follow !

 

[Eagle of Toledo]

my pick is for Evans to follow !

C'mon, enough Evans-bashing for one day, he wasn't the only one in that group you know. Anyone care to comment on Schleck's wheel following? No I didn't think so.

 

[whiteboytrash]

C'mon, enough Evans-bashing for one day, he wasn't the only one in that group you know. Anyone care to comment on Schleck's wheel following? No I didn't think so.

Have a listen to Le chien- he's a farking legend !:

"I believed a lot on this climb to create some time gaps and to see who was and wasn't competitive," Moreau said. "I was probably the only who believed that we could challenge the [Tour's] big act - Astana, Vinokourov, Klöden. It was interesting to try. I had to try something, because I was a little alone in thinking that.
[size=-1]"It's true I used up a lot of energy in attacking but If I hadn't have done that the time gaps would have been much smaller and most likely leaders like [Vladimir] Karpets, Vino and Klöden would have gotten back to us and it would have been another stage without much happening."[/size]

[size=-1]Moreau added that he was "very tired" from his aggressive day in the saddle and that the other contenders would now pay him much closer attention, but he said he was very proud of what he is doing in the Tour. "I gained confidence from [winning] the Dauphiné and when you have good legs you have to try something. Otherwise what's the point of racing," he said.[/size]

Getting back to this race, Moreau was asked whether he had a legitimate chance at making the podium. "I hope," he replied. "I hope. I want to. Now, I know the Tour very well, it's my wish that I don't have a bad day. I'm able to pace myself better now but you can't always be at your best - and I'm thinking here of the Pyrénées which are difficult in the final week.
[size=-1]"For now, everything is going well and I'm recuperating well, but between the difficulties, the strategy and the recuperation, it's necessary to have a little mélange of all three to succeed and get a chance at the podium. And I know I will have to attack to get on the podium as I'm not great at the time trials right now. But we'll see."[/size]

 

[Cobblestones]

"Currently it looks like the T-Mobile tactics with putting team leader Michael Rogers into the break, then keeping the gap down by his own teammates is not working out to well. He even did a Jan Ulrich and landed in the ditch.

Comedy gold. Except of course that he crashed hard. What a shame. He rode with big brass balls (and no this is not a doping comment).

ETA: I almost forgot, Borat ftw!

 

[stilesiii]

What a break for Astana. I know Ras can't TT, but I hope he gets a podium. What a bunch of weasels. I can't believe that an attempt at cracking Vino wasn't made by contenders. Shameful performance by Leipheimer, et al.

The problem with this years Tour is that none of the contenders have that meanstreak, go for the juggular, attack the pack attitude needed for Tour greatness. Domestiques in contenders clothes.

Its going to have to be Ras or one of the young riders.

 

[Eagle of Toledo]

Have a listen to Le chien- he's a farking legend !:

"It's true I used up a lot of energy in attacking but If I hadn't have done that the time gaps would have been much smaller and most likely leaders like [Vladimir] Karpets, Vino and Klöden would have gotten back to us and it would have been another stage without much happening."

Look no arguments there, it made for riveting viewing and don't get me wrong, I love Moreaus panache, he's one gutsy rider. However, tactically I disagree with him on the time-gain issue. Even Horner said on the Velonews interview that if that group have been more cohesive they could have gotten 1 or 2 minutes on the Vino group instead of the eventual 40 sec. After Moreaus initial brutal acceleration to establish the break he didn't need to continually hammer everyone every few hundred meters (he attacked no less than 8 times!!). The net effect was that the break went slower and it ****** the others off and they wouldn't come through. We can slam Evans all we want but Valverde, Schleck and Mayo were also there, they can't all have been lacking brains and balls at the same time. Riders do get ****** off you know...

 

[Eagle of Toledo]

As a follow-up to this, Fignon appears to have commented on Moreau's ride and also thought it was a bit dumb, something along the lines of "if he wants to win the Tour he needs to ride more sensibly" (i.e. using less of his crown jewels and more of his noodle).

 

[classic1]

As a follow-up to this, Fignon appears to have commented on Moreau's ride and also thought it was a bit dumb, something along the lines of "if he wants to win the Tour he needs to ride more sensibly" (i.e. using less of his crown jewels and more of his noodle).

When you attack, make it count. Fignon did when he raced.

Moreau rode like an amateur. 8 attacks is just dumb. Its something you'd see in a cat 4 race.