Standard 'training wheels' versus midprice 'race wheels'

[flyingdutch]

snip

1c worth

If you go on $ alone, what SuzyJ etc build up seems far better value in that price bracket and them Elites are not great for the buck. Other 'factory' wheels at same/cheaper range are lighter/faster (Protons, Alex, Easton-in-particular). Cost to repair (and if youre racing its a big factor, so i have found out! ) is much higher with the Ksyriums too.

I went from old wheels to protons with same tyre/tubes and then changed over to MichelinCarbonAxials (i know there are lighter faster) and the difference was HUGE! Then i put in a couple of really light latex tubes and another noticeable leap resulted.

I'd love to do a comparison test with a group and swap wheels every half our or so to do a better comparison.

 

[Nick Payne]

Save your money. I've not noticed any difference other than to my wallet. I
had a set of Campagnolo Eurus wheels, which according to a wheel test in
Cycling Plus are almost exactly the same weight as the Mavic Ksyrium SL, and
I built a set of 32-spoke wheels with Record hubs, Aerohead rims, and CX-Ray
spokes. Within the limits of my kitchen scales (about 10g resolution) the
weights were exactly the same between the two wheelsets, and I never noticed
any difference between one set or the other in races with the same tyres and
tubes on both (Conti GP3000 with Michelin latex tubes).

The Eurus wheels new were about three times as expensive as the home built
wheels. I eventually sold them for about 60% of what I paid for them, which
was still considerably more than the other set cost me.

Nick

"Peter S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm curious to get some feedback from those of you who have perhaps bought
> a
> set of 'race wheels' and whether you can actually sense the difference in
> performance from the wheels your bike probably shipped with. I've only
> ever
> ridden my bike with the wheels that shipped with it (Mavic CXP 22's with
> Michelin Pro Race tyres). We had a round table discussion at "our" coffee
> stop after a long group ride this morning and opinion varied. I'm talking
> about whether the difference is quantifiable for the amount the you'd have
> to spend for even a mid range reasonable wheelset such as Ksyrium Elites.
> I
> thought I'g get feedback before I start saving and looking seriously at
> what's out there.

 

[Peter S]

I'm curious to get some feedback from those of you who have perhaps bought a
set of 'race wheels' and whether you can actually sense the difference in
performance from the wheels your bike probably shipped with. I've only ever
ridden my bike with the wheels that shipped with it (Mavic CXP 22's with
Michelin Pro Race tyres). We had a round table discussion at "our" coffee
stop after a long group ride this morning and opinion varied. I'm talking
about whether the difference is quantifiable for the amount the you'd have
to spend for even a mid range reasonable wheelset such as Ksyrium Elites. I
thought I'g get feedback before I start saving and looking seriously at
what's out there.

Peter S
[email protected]

 

[smartie]

There was a huge thread in the Equipment section of Cycling Forums.

It basically showed weight makes a 0.0X% difference to performance whereas aerodynamics has a much larger effect. In the 0.1X% i think, it's been a while since i saw it.

It also depends greatly on where your starting and finishing points on wheel quality are.

 

[flyingdutch]

I guess that's what I'm talking about - was the biggest difference when you
put the Protons on, or when you changed to lighter tyres and tubes? When I
first got my bike it had Michelin Dynamic tyres. After a few weeks I bought
Michelin Pro Race and the difference was very noticeable. I'm wondering
since a lot of the performance is supposed to come from lower rotating mass
just how much more I'll notice the difference if I shell out for slightly
lighter wheels.

How much of a performance increase comes from 'aero' as opposed to just the
weight of the wheel?

Peter S
[email protected]

the wheels beforehand were Atlanta deepVrims so great once wound up but just plain heavy climbing, accelerating but the difference from initial changeover to Protons was like a factor of, say 10 >>(down to) 6, and then the tyr/tube change >>5. (10 being starting tyres/wheels and 1 being un-noticeable)

 

[Peter S]

"flyingdutch" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> If you go on $ alone, what SuzyJ etc build up seems far better value in
> that price bracket and them Elites are not great for the buck. Other
> 'factory' wheels at same/cheaper range are lighter/faster (Protons,
> Alex, Easton-in-particular). Cost to repair (and if youre racing its a
> big factor, so i have found out! ) is much higher with the
> Ksyriums too.
>
> I went from old wheels to protons with same tyre/tubes and then changed
> over to MichelinCarbonAxials (i know there are lighter faster) and the
> difference was HUGE! Then i put in a couple of really light latex tubes
> and another noticeable leap resulted.
>
> I'd love to do a comparison test with a group and swap wheels every
> half our or so to do a better comparison.

I guess that's what I'm talking about - was the biggest difference when you
put the Protons on, or when you changed to lighter tyres and tubes? When I
first got my bike it had Michelin Dynamic tyres. After a few weeks I bought
Michelin Pro Race and the difference was very noticeable. I'm wondering
since a lot of the performance is supposed to come from lower rotating mass
just how much more I'll notice the difference if I shell out for slightly
lighter wheels.

How much of a performance increase comes from 'aero' as opposed to just the
weight of the wheel?

Peter S
[email protected]

 

[Carl Brewer]

On Sat, 14 May 2005 20:06:24 -0700, "Peter S"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm curious to get some feedback from those of you who have perhaps bought a
>set of 'race wheels' and whether you can actually sense the difference in
>performance from the wheels your bike probably shipped with. I've only ever
>ridden my bike with the wheels that shipped with it (Mavic CXP 22's with
>Michelin Pro Race tyres). We had a round table discussion at "our" coffee
>stop after a long group ride this morning and opinion varied. I'm talking
>about whether the difference is quantifiable for the amount the you'd have
>to spend for even a mid range reasonable wheelset such as Ksyrium Elites. I
>thought I'g get feedback before I start saving and looking seriously at
>what's out there.

The other answers are good, but as always, there's more to it

Are different wheels noticable? You bet, are they faster? "it
depends". Same with tyres. If you're doing time trials or
expect to be off the front a lot, aero wheels are a signifiant
advantage, but they're usually heavy, so forget them for criteriums
and hills where you have to accelerate a lot or work against
gravity. If you're a sprinter whos race plan is to keep
out of the wind 'til the last moment, you want
stiff wheels, and who cares about aerodynamics*

CXP22's are reasonably heavy, sturdy wheels, and with
a decent hub and sensible spoking, they're a good
trainer. You've put expensive tyres on, which will
make a lot of difference to the feel of the wheel, and
save you a few grams.

As with all bike bits pricing is very much diminished
returns, forking out $3k for some campag somethings
will get you little benefit over a good set of light wheels made
up by yourself or a good LBS. I'd never buy ksyriums
as they're very expensive, and doubly so when they get
broken - one of my lads has a 2 week old cracknfail R1000 with
ksyrium elites and he was in a minor crash at Crib Pt on
Saturday and two nipples pulled through the rim - expensive to
fix, and they're no faster or lighter or stronger than my DT
RR1.1/hugi 240 homemade wheels that I can get spares for at my LBS
for peanuts.



* - yes, but not at this level.

 

[flyingdutch]

...and hills where you have to accelerate a lot or work against gravity

Damn! i keep forgetting to switch off the 'Gravity' on my hills