starting training - need help

[foild1]

Hello everyone!
i have been riding now for about 3 months, i ride aprx. 25 - 30 miles every 2 days - i live a busy schedual, and this is all i can fit in - however, i would like to start riding "smart" and training more insted of just simply riding for 2 hours.. catch my drift?

can someone please give me a point on these two things?

A) when starting a hill climb (aprx a 3 - 4 minute climb) i have heard to get your cadence as high as possible before entering the hill, then as soon as you start riding up the hill, shift into a harder gear, stand up and peddle for as long as possible, and then continue up the hill in a easier gear sitting down - is this a good method to work on, or can someone explain to me a better method

B) i only have a cyclometer, and i am interested in getting a power meter, or a computer with cadence integration. I am still unsure though how to use a power meter and or a cadence monitor.. can someone tell me how?



Thanks!

Cam

 

[RapDaddyo]

A) when starting a hill climb (aprx a 3 - 4 minute climb) i have heard to get your cadence as high as possible before entering the hill, then as soon as you start riding up the hill, shift into a harder gear, stand up and peddle for as long as possible, and then continue up the hill in a easier gear sitting down - is this a good method to work on, or can someone explain to me a better method

Personally, I don't think that's such a good strategy. That sounds more like a plan for a short hill (e.g., <1 min). For a 3-4 min climb, I would suggest gearing down before you start up the hill because it's difficult to downshift once the bike slows down. It's easier to upshift if you find your cadence too high. Do some experimentation with your gears, but I'd recommend a cadence pretty close to whatever you're comfortable with on the flat. My observation is that most newbies ride hills in too big of a gear and too low of a cadence. As to getting off the saddle, I find I climb more efficiently on the saddle and only get off the saddle to give my muscles a rest. But, a 3-4 minute climb isn't long enough to need to rest my muscles, so I'd probably stay seated the entire climb. The basic thing you need to adapt to is the constant intensity of climbing versus riding on the flat where one can actually rest quite often.

B) i only have a cyclometer, and i am interested in getting a power meter, or a computer with cadence integration. I am still unsure though how to use a power meter and or a cadence monitor.. can someone tell me how?

Using a power meter is just as easy as using the tachometer in a car. It's just a different set of numbers, reflecting your intensity of effort. Same with a cadence meter, it just tells you your pedaling rpm. You'll figure them out with only a couple of rides. Check out the Power Training forum for lots of discussion threads on power meters.

 

[frenchyge]

Hello everyone!
i have been riding now for about 3 months, i ride aprx. 25 - 30 miles every 2 days - i live a busy schedual, and this is all i can fit in - however, i would like to start riding "smart" and training more insted of just simply riding for 2 hours.. catch my drift?

What are you training for? Just trying to get some exercise/fitness, or a specific event?

can someone please give me a point on these two things?

A) when starting a hill climb (aprx a 3 - 4 minute climb) i have heard to get your cadence as high as possible before entering the hill, then as soon as you start riding up the hill, shift into a harder gear, stand up and peddle for as long as possible, and then continue up the hill in a easier gear sitting down - is this a good method to work on, or can someone explain to me a better method?

There are as many hill climbing methods as there are people on this forum. Personally, I like to stay seated and keep my comfortable cadence as long as possible, and only stand up if there is a very steep section somewhere on the hill.

B) i only have a cyclometer, and i am interested in getting a power meter, or a computer with cadence integration. I am still unsure though how to use a power meter and or a cadence monitor.. can someone tell me how?

Learning about them is certainly a good first step. Personally, I don't think I'd recommend either for someone just starting out, until they develop a need to see the piece of data that the extra gadgets provide (ie, cadence or power).

 

[Pureshot78]

Hello everyone!
i have been riding now for about 3 months, i ride aprx. 25 - 30 miles every 2 days - i live a busy schedual, and this is all i can fit in - however, i would like to start riding "smart" and training more insted of just simply riding for 2 hours.. catch my drift?

can someone please give me a point on these two things?

A) when starting a hill climb (aprx a 3 - 4 minute climb) i have heard to get your cadence as high as possible before entering the hill, then as soon as you start riding up the hill, shift into a harder gear, stand up and peddle for as long as possible, and then continue up the hill in a easier gear sitting down - is this a good method to work on, or can someone explain to me a better method

B) i only have a cyclometer, and i am interested in getting a power meter, or a computer with cadence integration. I am still unsure though how to use a power meter and or a cadence monitor.. can someone tell me how?



Thanks!

Cam

A wise cyclist told me when i was a newbie to try to climb in the saddle whenever possible. In your first year or two of cycling your body goes through pretty big physiological changes. Climbing in the saddle will promote inner hip strength. Do drills to improve your pedal technique (everyone does this, even the pros) which will improve your efficiency, this will pay big dividends as you ride longer and farther. Start using a training diary where you record road conditions, weather conditions, route, speed, distance, time, etc. This will really give you a sense of perspective when you are feeling like you haven't improved in a long time. Ride with people that are dedicated to the sport and encourage new riders. Having a sense of community will do wonders for your motivation and you will learn a lot along the way.

 

[biker-linz]

Do drills to improve your pedal technique (everyone does this, even the pros) which will improve your efficiency, this will pay big dividends as you ride longer and farther.

Hi Pureshot, I don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking because there's some fantastic advice in what you just wrote, but the idea that pedal 'drills' improve efficiency is completely unsupported from a scientific perspective. Efficiency improves pretty much as a function of years of training, although even this has been questioned.
WRT our new friend, I'd advise staying away from big gears for a while until your connective tissues (tendons and ligaments) have caught up with your new-found enthusiasm!
As far as training smart, there's some great people to be found on this forum although if you want 'one to one' advice you might want to consider hiring a coach for a while.

Enjoy your cycling.

L.

 

[Pureshot78]

Efficiency improves pretty much as a function of years of training, although even this has been questioned.

"Drills" is a very ambiguous term indeed. A principle of sports psychology involves visualizing the desired outcome. An example of this would be visualizing a smooth stroke in a free throw (basketball) or a preshot routine in golf. I recognize that cycling is different in that it involves continuous motion, but i believe the principle involved still applies. I believe any biomechanical action can be improved by focusing on technique in a controlled environment. It then becomes automatic when tested. Other ways; intervals of increased pedal cadence, experimenting with different ankle angles to find the position that feels the smoothest throughout the pedal stroke, adjustment of cleat position, saddle height and/or fore/aft position.. the point i'm trying to get at is that its simplification to say that time or years on the bike will make you best (i do not say "better" here because you will improve, but you may not realize the highest level of improvement possible). If you want to see an example of this go to your nearest golf course driving range or basketball court and watch people that have been "playing for years" shank, slice and brick till they are frustrated

 

[biker-linz]

I recognize that cycling is different in that it involves continuous motion, but i believe the principle involved still applies. I believe any biomechanical action can be improved by focusing on technique in a controlled environment.

You are assuming that efficiency can be improved by altering pedalling technique (i.e. by developing a 'smoother' pedal stroke) but this has been shown not to be the case see:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=1997818

In this study pedalling smoothness was not correlated with efficiency, however years of training were. There is no evidence that a 'smooth' pedal stroke is desirable and the study above in fact indicates the opposite (although it's more than likely a casual, not a causal relationship).


L.

 

[biker-linz]

You are assuming that efficiency can be improved by altering pedalling technique (i.e. by developing a 'smoother' pedal stroke) but this has been shown not to be the case see:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=1997818

In this study pedalling smoothness was not correlated with efficiency, however years of training were. There is no evidence that a 'smooth' pedal stroke is desirable and the study above in fact indicates the opposite (although it's more than likely a casual, not a causal relationship).


L.

Sorry, I should have added that the single biggest predictor of efficiency / economy is % Type I fibres, see:

Coyle, E. F., L. S. Sidossis, J. F. Horowitz, and J. D. Beltz. Cycling efficiency is related to the percentage of type I muscle fibers. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 24:782-788, 1992.

L.

 

[troll36]

Sorry, I should have added that the single biggest predictor of efficiency / economy is % Type I fibres, see:

Coyle, E. F., L. S. Sidossis, J. F. Horowitz, and J. D. Beltz. Cycling efficiency is related to the percentage of type I muscle fibers. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 24:782-788, 1992.

L.

Sorry this has nothing to do with the thread in question.But If I may....

Are you a physician (a Dr as known to laymen) doing a post grad

 

[mattjf]

I can't comment on the whole smooth pedal stroke debate, but I can comment on "drills" in the broad sense.

For better or worse, I have the Chris Charmichael Performance Plan book. I bought it when I was just starting. It has some valuable information in there, especially for beginners. It might not be useful to use as a serious training plan, but for new riders that like structure (such as myself), it gave me something to follow. On the "beginning" plan, it has drills called FastPedal. It involves increasing your cadence over a set distance, then holding a cadence of around 110-120 (if I remember correctly). I was mashing gears but after doing these drills for the 7 weeks, I increased my cadence quite a bit. Now I am comfortable at 90rpm. I have seen a huge improvement in riding by increasing my cadence.

I'd say drills have some value in them. As for the one legged pedaling, I haven't done that, so I won't comment.

-Matt

 

[frenchyge]

You are assuming that efficiency can be improved by altering pedalling technique (i.e. by developing a 'smoother' pedal stroke) but this has been shown not to be the case see:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=1997818

In this study pedalling smoothness was not correlated with efficiency, however years of training were. There is no evidence that a 'smooth' pedal stroke is desirable and the study above in fact indicates the opposite (although it's more than likely a casual, not a causal relationship).


L.

Hey Lindsay, quick question about that study. This sentence confuses me: "We have also observed a strong relationship between years of endurance training and percent Type I muscle fibers (r = 0.75; P less than 0.001)," as it seems to imply that type I fibers can be adapted through endurance training. Another source I've read ( http://home.hia.no/~stephens/fibtype2.htm ) indicates that type IIb can convert to IIa, but that type II fibers do not convert to type I fibers.

Any thoughts on that? Is it possible that the elite group were 'elite' *because* of their genetic fibers composition and not that they had developed their high percentage of type I fibers through training as the study seems to suggest?

 

[Doctor Morbius]

Hey Lindsay, quick question about that study. This sentence confuses me: "We have also observed a strong relationship between years of endurance training and percent Type I muscle fibers (r = 0.75; P less than 0.001)," as it seems to imply that type I fibers can be adapted through endurance training. Another source I've read ( http://home.hia.no/~stephens/fibtype2.htm ) indicates that type IIb can convert to IIa, but that type II fibers do not convert to type I fibers.

Any thoughts on that? Is it possible that the elite group were 'elite' *because* of their genetic fibers composition and not that they had developed their high percentage of type I fibers through training as the study seems to suggest?

I was under the impression that Type IIa didn't really convert in a pure sense but rather emulated Type I fibers after much specific training, thus some physiologists nicknamed them pink fibers.

 

[biker-linz]

Is it possible that the elite group were 'elite' *because* of their genetic fibers composition and not that they had developed their high percentage of type I fibers through training as the study seems to suggest?

That's the $64,000 question now, isn't it? To be honest, no-one knows for sure.

L.

 

[biker-linz]

Sorry this has nothing to do with the thread in question.But If I may....

Are you a physician (a Dr as known to laymen) doing a post grad

Hi Troll, sorry for the delay in replying. No, I'm not an MD, just a coach and a student (and a whole bunch of other stuff depending on what hat I'm wearing!!)

L.

 

[troll36]

Hi Troll, sorry for the delay in replying. No, I'm not an MD, just a coach and a student (and a whole bunch of other stuff depending on what hat I'm wearing!!)

L.

Well nice to know u.
Not many hats to go around in my part of the world.Mumbai INDIA

 

[biker-linz]

Well nice to know u.
Not many hats to go around in my part of the world.Mumbai INDIA

Wow! I've never been to Mumbai, but I did visit Goa many years ago (truly wonderful place). It's great to know that someone's flying the flag for our amazing sport down there.

L.