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On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:29:30 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]> wrote:

>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 23:26:08 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>
>>>> Ah, back to the "I know you are but what am I" bit, eh? Wow.
>>>
>>>Catchy ain't it. You seem to think it works for you, so I thought
I'd
>> give
>>>it a try...
>>
>> Wow. Just when you think Dave can't get any goofier, he starts
making
>> even more grandiose claims.
>
>Wow, just when you thought Pete couldn't deny his own M.O, he does.

There you go again.

>>>> Very sweet, if I ever stooped to the inane "I know you are but
what
>> am
>>>> I" schtick that you use when you back yourself into a corner with silliness.
>>>
>>>hahaha, pot, kettle black? Petey you really need a clue my friend.
>>>
>>>You always do Petey, here, at MTBR, wherever you may roam. Don't
deny
>> it,
>>>you know it's true.
>>
>> Uh, O delusional one, please provide examples of me using your "I
now
>> you are but what am I" lameness that you hold so dearly. Thanks.
>
>Why bother, we've all seen it done by you and yours hundreds of
times. I
>shant waste my time when we all know it's true.

In other words you can't. See what I mean about your uncanny knack for backing yourself
into corners?

>> An idiot like you claiming that I need a clue? ROTFLMAO! Priceless.
>
>No, my kids are priceless, you'd go for bout a buck fity!

Yuck, yuck. It's too bad Hee Haw is off the air. Your smarmy attempts at humor might buy you a short
spot on their very amatuer hour.

>>>> Unfortunately for you, I don't need to resort to such pathetic tactics.
>>>
>>>Really? hahahaha that is rich. Google is your friend Petey!
>>
>> See above.
>
>Aww, c'mon Petey whattsamatta, you getting tired. I realize this is probably tiring out the ol'
>brain there, but I thought you could hang
a bit
>longer. I guess I gave you more credit than that. Sorry, I forgot you
were
>an idiot.

See above, as in provide examples. Since you can't (they don't exist) you're left twisting in the
wind, once again.

>>>>>> See above goofball.
>>>>>
>>>>>Quit whining Petey, it's not very becoming ;-)
>>>>
>>>> That will be the day Dave. That I start whining, rather than
>> twirling.
>>>
>>>Whatsamatta Petey, been on the sit and spin too long...
>>
>> Nah. Twirling, as in twirling the strings of a hypocritical dunce known as Dave W, "freightdog,"
>> or "stoner" among other things.
>
>Hahaha, only by you and your girlfriend..hahahah that is funny.
Pucker up
>be-atch. I mean it's obvious that you and he have discussed your cute little names over some sweet
>pillow talk. besides that, your
girlfriend
>calls me Frightpig, get it right, you do your sweety a great
dis-service by
>not posting it correctly, Petey the Schweety! hehehehe

Sorry Dave, your bizarre homophobic fantasies don't distract people from your utter idiocy.

pete fagerlin

::Revolutionary! Evolutionary! Yet so retro! :www.yestubes.com
 
On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 02:11:36 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]> wrote:

>> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:29:30 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]>
wrote:

Having trouble figuring out how to quote Dave?

>>>> Uh, O delusional one, please provide examples of me using your "I
>> now
>>>> you are but what am I" lameness that you hold so dearly. Thanks.
>
>I haven't the time to go through the 12,000 + posts that google
returned on
>your sorry ass.

In other words, there are no examples, as I knew when I asked the question Dave.

The ones I've seen were more than enough to show that you
>are a professional leg humper.

Ah, the irony once again. How does one become a "professional" leg humper Dave? What's the pay like?

>everyone on a variety of newsgroups.

Ah, there you go with the lies and distortions again. You're backing yourself into another
corner Dave.

I'm really surprized you haven't been
>murdered yet, given some of the **** you post Petey. My god are you
even a
>human being? If you are you are one of the sorriest individuals I've
ever
>run across.

Coming form you that means...absolutely as close to nothing as one can get.

>>>Why bother, we've all seen it done by you and yours hundreds of
>> times. I
>>>shant waste my time when we all know it's true.
>>
>> In other words you can't. See what I mean about your uncanny knack
for
>> backing yourself into corners?
>
>Make that thousands of times. You are truly a waste of flesh my
friend!

In the same words, once again, you can't find any examples.

>>>> An idiot like you claiming that I need a clue? ROTFLMAO!
Priceless.
>>>
>>>No, my kids are priceless, you'd go for bout a buck fity!
>>
>> Yuck, yuck. It's too bad Hee Haw is off the air. Your smarmy
attempts
>> at humor might buy you a short spot on their very amatuer hour.
>
>Hee haw you say. that's a good one. Hee Haw ran for what, nearly 20
years?
>You been spinning you tripe all over Usenet for a considerable
shorter
>time. talk about amatuer. hehehe

The fact that your goofy little "comeback" makes you giggle is yet more evidence (like it's really
needed at this point) that you're quite the simpleton.

>>>>>> Unfortunately for you, I don't need to resort to such pathetic tactics.
>>>>>
>>>>>Really? hahahaha that is rich. Google is your friend Petey!
>>>>
>>>> See above.
>
>I did, Google confirmed a whole lot more about you than I could have
hoped
>for. You are a boil on the ass of humanity Petey. There can be no
denying
>it.

Translation (there's a pattern here Dave):

You can't find any examples, because there aren't any.

>> See above, as in provide examples. Since you can't (they don't
exist)
>> you're left twisting in the wind, once again.
>
>There are plenty of your self absorbed "I'm better than anyone else,
ever"
>********, Maybe Google isn't your friend for it shows exactly what a
pc of
>dung you are.

Again, while you've been frantically digging through Google, and your delicate sensibilities have
been getting all offended, the fact remains that you have been unable to find any examples of me
behaving the way that you claimed I did.

What a lying ****** you are.

>>>Hahaha, only by you and your girlfriend..hahahah that is funny.
>> Pucker up
>>>be-atch. I mean it's obvious that you and he have discussed your
cute
>>>little names over some sweet pillow talk. besides that, your
>> girlfriend
>>>calls me Frightpig, get it right, you do your sweety a great
>> dis-service by
>>>not posting it correctly, Petey the Schweety! hehehehe
>>
>> Sorry Dave, your bizarre homophobic fantasies don't distract people from your utter idiocy.
>
>I know you've heard this 1000's of times, (I know, I just read a
couple
>hundred of them) and I'm sure your senses are just dulled to it, but,
pot,
>kettle, black

Oh really Dave?

So were have I spun bizarre homophobic fantasies to distract folks from false claims?

ROTFLMAO! You just read a couple hundred of my posts? That's pretty sad Dave. It's apparently quite
vexing for you seeing as how you can't back up your goofy claims.

No wonder I had that weird feeling that I had slime running down my back.

>you're really just a bot aren't you? I read that tripe you posted
over at
>rec.autos.4x4, and rec.autos.driver, as well as many many many of the
other
>groups you attempt to rule...what a freakin waste of air!

Attempt to rule? LOL!

Dave, your spiraling downward, at an ever-increasing rate, into a miasma of incoherency of your own
making. Maybe it's time you got some help.

>Someone should smack you upside your nappy head just for being alive, really.

"nappy" head?

Your bizarreness apparently knows no bounds.

pete fagerlin

::Revolutionary! Evolutionary! Yet so retro! :www.yestubes.com
 
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 22:21:08 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>>Waaa waaa, booo hoo. Someone's hurt poor Petey's feelings.
>>>
>>> Huh? You really can't be that dense, can you?
>>
>>Sure I can. And so can you. Obviously!
>
> Wow. With every posts you become more and more like some seven year old on the playground. Thanks
> for admitting how dense you are though. That's a step in the right direction.

As do you! Petey, as you always (notice Baker) do. hey if it works for you.

>>> Ok, so you claim you didn't have a few drinks and then posts
> weirdness
>>> like this. Maybe a few bong hits then?
>>
>>Nope don't smoke. Get a clue fool.
>
> Then explain the cause of your idiocy.

You first Petey. You first
>
>>> Why would anyoone be scared of the usenet equivelent of the crazy
> guy
>>> on the corner that preaches about how Jesus taught him to
> masturbate?
>>
>>hahaha, Jesus teaching masturbation. Petey you really have no shame
> do you?
>
> Shame, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with my spot-on analogy.

yeah, bout like the spot on the mattress where your daddy left your brain.

>
>>> That wasn't a claim that my comment was humorous. It was a comment regarding the deep meaning of
>>> your posts. Humorous. As in "laughing
> at
>>> you" rather than "laughing with you."
>>
>>Likewise Petey, likewise
>
> Ah, back to the "I know you are but what am I" bit, eh? Wow.

Catchy ain't it. You seem to think it works for you, so I thought I'd give it a try...
>
>>>>> It's sitting right out there for all to see kind of like the guy that walks back into the bar
>>>>> from the bathroom with ****-stained TP hanging out of his droopy drawers.
>>>>
>>>>Wow, using yourself as an example. Very brave of you Petey, very
> brave
>>>>indeed.
>>>
>>> Ah, the ole "I know you are but what am I" routine. Brilliant, if totally unsupported by the
>>> evidence at hand (Google away to educate yourself).
>>
>>I knew you'd recognize your own M.O. Pretty schweet huh?
>
> Very sweet, if I ever stooped to the inane "I know you are but what am I" schtick that you use
> when you back yourself into a corner with silliness.

hahaha, pot, kettle black? Petey you really need a clue my friend.

You always do Petey, here, at MTBR, wherever you may roam. Don't deny it, you know it's true.

>
> Unfortunately for you, I don't need to resort to such pathetic tactics.

Really? hahahaha that is rich. Google is your friend Petey!
>
>>> See above goofball.
>>
>>Quit whining Petey, it's not very becoming ;-)
>
> That will be the day Dave. That I start whining, rather than twirling.

Whatsamatta Petey, been on the sit and spin too long...

isn't this fun?

Dave (quit twirling Petey, you're scrambling your brain)
 
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 23:26:08 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Ah, back to the "I know you are but what am I" bit, eh? Wow.
>>
>>Catchy ain't it. You seem to think it works for you, so I thought I'd
> give
>>it a try...
>
> Wow. Just when you think Dave can't get any goofier, he starts making even more grandiose claims.

Wow, just when you thought Pete couldn't deny his own M.O, he does.

>
>>> Very sweet, if I ever stooped to the inane "I know you are but what
> am
>>> I" schtick that you use when you back yourself into a corner with silliness.
>>
>>hahaha, pot, kettle black? Petey you really need a clue my friend.
>>
>>You always do Petey, here, at MTBR, wherever you may roam. Don't deny
> it,
>>you know it's true.
>
> Uh, O delusional one, please provide examples of me using your "I now you are but what am I"
> lameness that you hold so dearly. Thanks.

Why bother, we've all seen it done by you and yours hundreds of times. I shant waste my time when we
all know it's true.

>
> An idiot like you claiming that I need a clue? ROTFLMAO! Priceless.

No, my kids are priceless, you'd go for bout a buck fity!

>
>>> Unfortunately for you, I don't need to resort to such pathetic tactics.
>>
>>Really? hahahaha that is rich. Google is your friend Petey!
>
> See above.

Aww, c'mon Petey whattsamatta, you getting tired. I realize this is probably tiring out the ol'
brain there, but I thought you could hang a bit longer. I guess I gave you more credit than that.
Sorry, I forgot you were an idiot.
>
>>>>> See above goofball.
>>>>
>>>>Quit whining Petey, it's not very becoming ;-)
>>>
>>> That will be the day Dave. That I start whining, rather than
> twirling.
>>
>>Whatsamatta Petey, been on the sit and spin too long...
>
> Nah. Twirling, as in twirling the strings of a hypocritical dunce known as Dave W, "freightdog,"
> or "stoner" among other things.

Hahaha, only by you and your girlfriend..hahahah that is funny. Pucker up be-atch. I mean it's
obvious that you and he have discussed your cute little names over some sweet pillow talk. besides
that, your girlfriend calls me Frightpig, get it right, you do your sweety a great dis-service by
not posting it correctly, Petey the Schweety! hehehehe
 
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:29:30 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 23:26:08 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Ah, back to the "I know you are but what am I" bit, eh? Wow.
>>>>
>>>>Catchy ain't it. You seem to think it works for you, so I thought
> I'd
>>> give
>>>>it a try...
>>>
>>> Wow. Just when you think Dave can't get any goofier, he starts
> making
>>> even more grandiose claims.
>>
>>Wow, just when you thought Pete couldn't deny his own M.O, he does.
>
> There you go again.

Yep.

>
>>>>> Very sweet, if I ever stooped to the inane "I know you are but
> what
>>> am
>>>>> I" schtick that you use when you back yourself into a corner with silliness.
>>>>
>>>>hahaha, pot, kettle black? Petey you really need a clue my friend.
>>>>
>>>>You always do Petey, here, at MTBR, wherever you may roam. Don't
> deny
>>> it,
>>>>you know it's true.
>>>
>>> Uh, O delusional one, please provide examples of me using your "I
> now
>>> you are but what am I" lameness that you hold so dearly. Thanks.

I haven't the time to go through the 12,000 + posts that google returned on your sorry ass. The ones
I've seen were more than enough to show that you

everyone on a variety of newsgroups. I'm really surprized you haven't been murdered yet, given some
of the **** you post Petey. My god are you even a human being? If you are you are one of the
sorriest individuals I've ever run across.

>>
>>Why bother, we've all seen it done by you and yours hundreds of
> times. I
>>shant waste my time when we all know it's true.
>
> In other words you can't. See what I mean about your uncanny knack for backing yourself into
> corners?

Make that thousands of times. You are truly a waste of flesh my friend!

>
>>> An idiot like you claiming that I need a clue? ROTFLMAO! Priceless.
>>
>>No, my kids are priceless, you'd go for bout a buck fity!
>
> Yuck, yuck. It's too bad Hee Haw is off the air. Your smarmy attempts at humor might buy you a
> short spot on their very amatuer hour.

Hee haw you say. that's a good one. Hee Haw ran for what, nearly 20 years? You been spinning you
tripe all over Usenet for a considerable shorter time. talk about amatuer. hehehe
>
>>>>> Unfortunately for you, I don't need to resort to such pathetic tactics.
>>>>
>>>>Really? hahahaha that is rich. Google is your friend Petey!
>>>
>>> See above.

I did, Google confirmed a whole lot more about you than I could have hoped for. You are a boil on
the ass of humanity Petey. There can be no denying
it.

>>
>>Aww, c'mon Petey whattsamatta, you getting tired. I realize this is probably tiring out the ol'
>>brain there, but I thought you could hang
> a bit
>>longer. I guess I gave you more credit than that. Sorry, I forgot you
> were
>>an idiot.
>
> See above, as in provide examples. Since you can't (they don't exist) you're left twisting in the
> wind, once again.

There are plenty of your self absorbed "I'm better than anyone else, ever" ********, Maybe Google
isn't your friend for it shows exactly what a pc of dung you are.
>
>>>>>>> See above goofball.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Quit whining Petey, it's not very becoming ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> That will be the day Dave. That I start whining, rather than
>>> twirling.
>>>>
>>>>Whatsamatta Petey, been on the sit and spin too long...
>>>
>>> Nah. Twirling, as in twirling the strings of a hypocritical dunce known as Dave W, "freightdog,"
>>> or "stoner" among other things.
>>
>>Hahaha, only by you and your girlfriend..hahahah that is funny.
> Pucker up
>>be-atch. I mean it's obvious that you and he have discussed your cute little names over some sweet
>>pillow talk. besides that, your
> girlfriend
>>calls me Frightpig, get it right, you do your sweety a great
> dis-service by
>>not posting it correctly, Petey the Schweety! hehehehe
>
> Sorry Dave, your bizarre homophobic fantasies don't distract people from your utter idiocy.

I know you've heard this 1000's of times, (I know, I just read a couple hundred of them) and I'm
sure your senses are just dulled to it, but, pot, kettle, black

you're really just a bot aren't you? I read that tripe you posted over at rec.autos.4x4, and
rec.autos.driver, as well as many many many of the other groups you attempt to rule...what a freakin
waste of air!

Someone should smack you upside your nappy head just for being alive, really.

>
> pete fagerlin
 
"Dave W" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:34:53 +0100, "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dave W" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> >> Smoke free for a while now JD. find something else to ***** an complain about, cuz that one is
> >> falling on deaf ears. As about all your starching of my cuffs tend to do. (Sorry for the
> >> Blatant JD'ism Shauny, but it works here pretty well.)
> >
> >Idiot.
> >
> >> Dave (in the deep holel....you?)
> >
> >
> >Shaun aRe
> >
>
>
> hey Shauny wahts a holel?

It's what you dugl for yourselfl, idiotl.

Shaun aRe
 
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 02:11:36 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:29:30 -0000, Dave W <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Having trouble figuring out how to quote Dave?

Ah, morning Petey. About as much trouble as you are being a kind human being. But we all have our
faults don't we?

>
> The ones I've seen were more than enough to show that you
>>are a professional leg humper.
>
> Ah, the irony once again. How does one become a "professional" leg humper Dave? What's the
> pay like?

Yep, our posts are full of em' eh? The pay appears pretty lucrative. bought you a piece of ****
Porsche didn't it?

>

>>everyone on a variety of newsgroups.
>
> Ah, there you go with the lies and distortions again. You're backing yourself into another
> corner Dave.

So now you think Google just returns **** out of thin air, simply amazing!

>
> I'm really surprized you haven't been
>>murdered yet, given some of the **** you post Petey. My god are you
> even a
>>human being? If you are you are one of the sorriest individuals I've
> ever
>>run across.
>
> Coming form you that means...absolutely as close to nothing as one can get.

Excellent.

>
>>>>Why bother, we've all seen it done by you and yours hundreds of
>>> times. I
>>>>shant waste my time when we all know it's true.
>>>
>>> In other words you can't. See what I mean about your uncanny knack
> for
>>> backing yourself into corners?

Corner, what freakin corner are you on about? I'm in no corner. But you think your girlfriend is.
This is why you choose to engage me in this snappy reparte'. Chivalry is not dead.

>>
>>Make that thousands of times. You are truly a waste of flesh my
> friend!
>
> In the same words, once again, you can't find any examples.

More like I ain't got time to copy and paste Petey..

>
>
>>>>> An idiot like you claiming that I need a clue? ROTFLMAO!
> Priceless.
>>>>
>>>>No, my kids are priceless, you'd go for bout a buck fity!
>>>
>>> Yuck, yuck. It's too bad Hee Haw is off the air. Your smarmy
> attempts
>>> at humor might buy you a short spot on their very amatuer hour.
>>
>>Hee haw you say. that's a good one. Hee Haw ran for what, nearly 20
> years?
>>You been spinning you tripe all over Usenet for a considerable
> shorter
>>time. talk about amatuer. hehehe
>
> The fact that your goofy little "comeback" makes you giggle is yet more evidence (like it's really
> needed at this point) that you're quite the simpleton.

First song I ever learned on the guitar, Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Simple Man"

>>
>>I did, Google confirmed a whole lot more about you than I could have
> hoped
>>for. You are a boil on the ass of humanity Petey. There can be no
> denying
>>it.
>
> Translation (there's a pattern here Dave):
>
> You can't find any examples, because there aren't any.

Translation: (there is a very large pattern here Petey):

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859- 1&q=Pete+Fagerlin&sa=N&tab=wg

>>
>>There are plenty of your self absorbed "I'm better than anyone else,
> ever"
>>********, Maybe Google isn't your friend for it shows exactly what a
> pc of
>>dung you are.
>
> Again, while you've been frantically digging through Google, and your delicate sensibilities have
> been getting all offended,

hahahahahaha, thats a good one Petey ol' boy. A good one indeed!

.41 seconds on a return of 12,600 hits is not frantically digging. Get a clue. And you actually
think you could affect my delicate sensiblities is one of the funniest things I've ever read!!

the fact
> remains that you have been unable to find any examples of me behaving the way that you
> claimed I did.

See, there you go again, totally a moron. The fact remains that there are literally thousands of
examples of you acting like a pure out and out

hide from it...

>
> What a lying ****** you are.

>
>>>>Hahaha, only by you and your girlfriend..hahahah that is funny.
>>> Pucker up
>>>>be-atch. I mean it's obvious that you and he have discussed your
> cute
>>>>little names over some sweet pillow talk. besides that, your
>>> girlfriend
>>>>calls me Frightpig, get it right, you do your sweety a great
>>> dis-service by
>>>>not posting it correctly, Petey the Schweety! hehehehe
>>>
>>> Sorry Dave, your bizarre homophobic fantasies don't distract people from your utter idiocy.

Not trying to distract anything Petey. Your the Don Quixote of Usenet. Coming to the aid of your low
life friend. tell me petey, exactly how long does it take for you to get JD' butt nuggets out of
your nostrils?

>>
>>I know you've heard this 1000's of times, (I know, I just read a
> couple
>>hundred of them) and I'm sure your senses are just dulled to it, but,
> pot,
>>kettle, black
>
> Oh really Dave?
>
> So were have I spun bizarre homophobic fantasies to distract folks from false claims?

Please refresh my memory Petey, I don't recall saying you've ever spun any homophobic fantasies.
Although, by your actions taking up for your girlfriend here, well there has to be something going
on there, lest you wouldn't jump to his rescue anytime someone steps on his delicate sensibilities
on usenet. There are several examples of this dating back to at least 98. And before you say,
"provide examples" take a look at the link above. yep, that's a helluva legacy you're leaving your
kids Fagerlin, helluva legacy! I'd be ashamed if I were you.

>
> ROTFLMAO! You just read a couple hundred of my posts? That's pretty sad Dave. It's apparently
> quite vexing for you seeing as how you can't back up your goofy claims.

yada yada yada. typical Fagerlinism. Blah, blah blah.

> No wonder I had that weird feeling that I had slime running down my back.

A feeling your used too no doubt. Perhaps you should change your sheets.

>
>>you're really just a bot aren't you? I read that tripe you posted
> over at
>>rec.autos.4x4, and rec.autos.driver, as well as many many many of the
> other
>>groups you attempt to rule...what a freakin waste of air!
>
> Attempt to rule? LOL!
>
>
> Dave, your spiraling downward, at an ever-increasing rate, into a miasma of incoherency of your
> own making. Maybe it's time you got some help.

Maybe it's time to get some help? hahahahaha too funny. You mean like the kinda jealous lover help
your providing for your girlfriend here, now? thanks. But you aren't any sort of gauge for mental
stability Petey. Are you a psychiatrist? What's your background in the field? oh, years of hammering
people on usenet? Well then, I guess you're right.

>
>>Someone should smack you upside your nappy head just for being alive, really.
>
> "nappy" head?
>
> Your bizarreness apparently knows no bounds.

none whatsoever. Remember that Petey. Remember that.

>
> pete fagerlin
>
>::Revolutionary! Evolutionary! Yet so retro! :www.yestubes.com

and lose the fake sig, would ya' it was funny for about 30 seconds. Now it's just tired. As
are you...
 
P e t e F a g e r l i n <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Thanks for the admission. Ackowledging your idiocy is an important first step for you Dave. I'm
> very proud that I'm a part of fixing such a broken soul.

It's beyond repair if there is no soul to begin with. Poor frightpig, I actually pity the fool.

JD
 
> P e t e F a g e r l i n <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Thanks for the admission. Ackowledging your idiocy is an important first step for you Dave. I'm
>> very proud that I'm a part of fixing such a broken soul.
>
> It's beyond repair if there is no soul to begin with. Poor frightpig, I actually pity the fool.
>
> JD

Pity from you...hahahaha, you're a riot JD what the hell do you know about soul?

Dave (pity the child)
 
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