Staying Warm in the Cold



S

Steve Sr.

Guest
Hello,

It is that time of year when the mercury is steadily falling. Even in
North Carolina it has been getting cold enough lately to bring out the
long sleeves and tights.

I have a lot of the cold issues sorted out as far as what equipment to
wear at what temperature. However, I still have one nagging problem.

That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
the front while my back sweats. I have tried different layering
schemes but none seem to work very well. The layers consist of a long
sleeve jersey, short sleeve jersey, and a thin fleece jacket if
temperatures are cold enough.

All of these seem to have the same problem. They appear to breathe too
well in the front and not well enough in the back.

One question that comes to mind is how tight should these layers be? I
don't seem to have problem with my legs being cold or sweating. Is
that because of the material that the tights are made of or is it
because they are contacting every square inch of skin continuously?

My torso layers are not real loose but are not nearly as tight as my
tights? Could this be the problem with my torso getting cold in the
front while sweating in the back?

Thanks for any insight.


Steve
 
Steve Sr. wrote:

>
> That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
> the front while my back sweats.


Being a really cheap *******, I would fashion something out of nylon or
plastic just for my chest. I would insert it between some of those layers.
 
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:39:37 -0500, Steve Sr. <[email protected]>
wrote, in part:
\
>That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
>the front while my back sweats. I have tried different layering
>schemes but none seem to work very well. The layers consist of a long
>sleeve jersey, short sleeve jersey, and a thin fleece jacket if
>temperatures are cold enough.

\
Try adding a wind breaking layer, preferably with vents.

I've a Sugoui, full zip, long sleeve jersey that looks like a
synthetic version of Egyptian Cotton on the front, sleeves and
shoulders about to mid back. The back side of the sleeves and lower
back, with three pockets, is Lycra like a heavy jersey. I wear it as
an outside layer or as a third layer depending on the weather. I
love it despite its being dayglo fluorescent hot pink.

For this time of year I also love wool long sleeved sweaters sized
too large and shrunk to aid water repellency.

The time-honoured trick is to stick a newspaper down your shirt.
--
zk
 
Steve Sr. wrote:
>
> That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
> the front while my back sweats.


I have a vest that's windproof in front and just mesh in back. It helps
but is not perfect.

I always keep my front torso warm and reduce arm/head/hand coverage to
keep from overheating. I also just accept the wet back which only
bothers me when I'm cold. So back to the keep warm comment. I wear
wool jerseys this time of year.


>
> All of these seem to have the same problem. They appear to breathe too
> well in the front and not well enough in the back.


I'd word that differently. One has much more air flowing over one's
front than one's back and it is that airflow quantity that affects the
heat dissipation or lack of.

Perhaps you can fashion an adjustable air intake necklace that directs
air over your back. When developed, r.b.m/t awaits your spam. :) I'd
consider it.

Or perhaps you need to shave your back?
 
On Nov 13, 9:39 pm, Steve Sr. <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> It is that time of year when the mercury is steadily falling. Even in
> North Carolina it has been getting cold enough lately to bring out the
> long sleeves and tights.
>
> I have a lot of the cold issues sorted out as far as what equipment to
> wear at what temperature. However, I still have one nagging problem.
>
> That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
> the front while my back sweats. I have tried different layering
> schemes but none seem to work very well. The layers consist of a long
> sleeve jersey, short sleeve jersey, and a thin fleece jacket if
> temperatures are cold enough.
>
> All of these seem to have the same problem. They appear to breathe too
> well in the front and not well enough in the back.
>
> One question that comes to mind is how tight should these layers be? I
> don't seem to have problem with my legs being cold or sweating. Is
> that because of the material that the tights are made of or is it
> because they are contacting every square inch of skin continuously?
>
> My torso layers are not real loose but are not nearly as tight as my
> tights? Could this be the problem with my torso getting cold in the
> front while sweating in the back?
>
> Thanks for any insight.
>
> Steve


Go to www.wiggys.com; read the use letter for keeping warm. Wiggys
has the lightest and
BEST WORKING, insulated gear in the world.

Jams in Ohio
 
"Steve Sr." <[email protected]> wrote ...

> One question that comes to mind is how tight should these layers be? I
> don't seem to have problem with my legs being cold or sweating. Is
> that because of the material that the tights are made of or is it
> because they are contacting every square inch of skin continuously?
>
> My torso layers are not real loose but are not nearly as tight as my
> tights? Could this be the problem with my torso getting cold in the
> front while sweating in the back?
>
> Thanks for any insight.


Welcome.

The first rule of retail is "Always give the customer what he thinks he
wants." (courtesy of Ron "Rocky" Roth, Geppetto's, Ashland , OR). I'm
tempted to answer the questions you ask but that would not help you.

In straight up violation of Rocky's first rule of retail, what I think you
really want to know is how can I stay warm when I ride in the cold?

Yes, you can try newspaper and saran wrap, as cheapskates elsewhere have
suggested. Alternatively, consider the following:

This windstop underwear and brief may save your very manhood:
http://www.nordicskater.com/garneau/index.html

or perhaps...
http://www.trisports.com/logamewibu.html?productid=logamewibu&channelid=BIZRA

Keep your head warm with a nice nylon skull cap and your toes warm with
booties and/or baggies over your toes. Works wonders.

--
JF

"A really great man is known by three signs,--generosity in the design,
humanity in the execution, and moderation in success."
- Karl Otto von Schonhausen Bismarck
 
Steve Sr. wrote:
> Hello,
>
> It is that time of year when the mercury is steadily falling. Even in
> North Carolina it has been getting cold enough lately to bring out the
> long sleeves and tights.
>
> I have a lot of the cold issues sorted out as far as what equipment to
> wear at what temperature. However, I still have one nagging problem.
>
> That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
> the front while my back sweats. I have tried different layering
> schemes but none seem to work very well. The layers consist of a long
> sleeve jersey, short sleeve jersey, and a thin fleece jacket if
> temperatures are cold enough.
>
> All of these seem to have the same problem. They appear to breathe too
> well in the front and not well enough in the back.
>
> One question that comes to mind is how tight should these layers be? I
> don't seem to have problem with my legs being cold or sweating. Is
> that because of the material that the tights are made of or is it
> because they are contacting every square inch of skin continuously?
>
> My torso layers are not real loose but are not nearly as tight as my
> tights? Could this be the problem with my torso getting cold in the
> front while sweating in the back?
>
> Thanks for any insight.


If I had secure ground level storage, I would get this to stay warm in
the winter: <http://leitra.dk/news.php>. But then again, I am incorrigible.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
 
Steve Sr? writes:

> It is that time of year when the mercury is steadily falling. Even
> in North Carolina it has been getting cold enough lately to bring
> out the long sleeves and tights.


> I have a lot of the cold issues sorted out as far as what equipment
> to wear at what temperature. However, I still have one nagging
> problem.


> That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
> the front while my back sweats. I have tried different layering
> schemes but none seem to work very well. The layers consist of a
> long sleeve jersey, short sleeve jersey, and a thin fleece jacket if
> temperatures are cold enough.


> All of these seem to have the same problem. They appear to breathe
> too well in the front and not well enough in the back.


> One question that comes to mind is how tight should these layers be?
> I don't seem to have problem with my legs being cold or sweating.
> Is that because of the material that the tights are made of or is it
> because they are contacting every square inch of skin continuously?


> My torso layers are not real loose but are not nearly as tight as my
> tights? Could this be the problem with my torso getting cold in the
> front while sweating in the back?


If you consider the effects you are trying to control, rather that
brand names and types of garments you might have a better chance of
success.

Insulation is made of trapped gas (air) and if it is in contact with
your body and has no exchange it will become wet (steamy). This is
why fluffy insulators that allow air to pass gradually (like
knit-wear) are used, so there is an exchange and drying effect.

One of the poorest pieces of clothing for keeping warm, especially at
speed (descending) is a loose wind-proof jacket. It will begin to
flap noisily and while doing that, generate forced convection,
essentially a bucket brigade of air being pumped from the cold outside
to the body as the waterproof or nearly so cloth pumps. There's a
hell of a wind inside a flapping jacket.

You can't have warm extremities if the "hot water pipes" going there
are frozen. Your arms and legs must be kept warm to insure warm
fingers and toes. Just mittens or booties do no good if the supply
channels are frozen.

Thick layers of knit wear breathe and allow moisture to escape while
water and wind proof shells kill that effect. That's what's wrong
with most jerseys today and why they are ridden with their zipper all
the way open from neck to waist on climbs because they don't breathe.
You'll note there are no zippers on woolen or synthetic knit jerseys
except to get the head in and out. There was no need to have them
flap in the breeze to keep cool. The converse is true when cold.
Current jerseys don't breath benignly causing cold sweat.

It's not how tight they fit but how much they breathe.

Jobst Brandt
 
On Nov 14, 12:14 am, [email protected] wrote:
> Steve Sr? writes:
> > It is that time of year when the mercury is steadily falling. Even
> > in North Carolina it has been getting cold enough lately to bring
> > out the long sleeves and tights.
> > I have a lot of the cold issues sorted out as far as what equipment
> > to wear at what temperature. However, I still have one nagging
> > problem.
> > That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
> > the front while my back sweats. I have tried different layering
> > schemes but none seem to work very well. The layers consist of a
> > long sleeve jersey, short sleeve jersey, and a thin fleece jacket if
> > temperatures are cold enough.
> > All of these seem to have the same problem. They appear to breathe
> > too well in the front and not well enough in the back.
> > One question that comes to mind is how tight should these layers be?
> > I don't seem to have problem with my legs being cold or sweating.
> > Is that because of the material that the tights are made of or is it
> > because they are contacting every square inch of skin continuously?
> > My torso layers are not real loose but are not nearly as tight as my
> > tights? Could this be the problem with my torso getting cold in the
> > front while sweating in the back?

>
> If you consider the effects you are trying to control, rather that
> brand names and types of garments you might have a better chance of
> success.
>
> Insulation is made of trapped gas (air) and if it is in contact with
> your body and has no exchange it will become wet (steamy). This is
> why fluffy insulators that allow air to pass gradually (like
> knit-wear) are used, so there is an exchange and drying effect.
>
> One of the poorest pieces of clothing for keeping warm, especially at
> speed (descending) is a loose wind-proof jacket. It will begin to
> flap noisily and while doing that, generate forced convection,
> essentially a bucket brigade of air being pumped from the cold outside
> to the body as the waterproof or nearly so cloth pumps. There's a
> hell of a wind inside a flapping jacket.
>
> You can't have warm extremities if the "hot water pipes" going there
> are frozen. Your arms and legs must be kept warm to insure warm
> fingers and toes. Just mittens or booties do no good if the supply
> channels are frozen.
>
> Thick layers of knit wear breathe and allow moisture to escape while
> water and wind proof shells kill that effect. That's what's wrong
> with most jerseys today and why they are ridden with their zipper all
> the way open from neck to waist on climbs because they don't breathe.
> You'll note there are no zippers on woolen or synthetic knit jerseys
> except to get the head in and out. There was no need to have them
> flap in the breeze to keep cool. The converse is true when cold.
> Current jerseys don't breath benignly causing cold sweat.
>
> It's not how tight they fit but how much they breathe.
>
> Jobst Brandt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


don't bundle up unless you are going out for an all day thingy in
below freezing; an undershirt, a coolmax jersy, armwarmers and a vest-
stay warm by riding harder- your system will adapt and you will not
notice the temp; then in the spring when it starts to warm up you will
notice you will be flying faster as it gets warmer. take a candybar or
something for quick energy(heat) if you have to fix a flat and get
chilled.
 
"Crescentius Vespasianus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> ----------------
> Put the coolmax away and put on the wool. And always have a full cap on
> your head (not coolmax), that's where you lose the most heat.


Actually, the figure most often quoted for the amount of body heat lost
through the head is 40%. A lot, to be sure, but not the most, as 60% is
lost via the rest of your body.

Tim McTeague
 
On Nov 13, 9:39 pm, Steve Sr. <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> It is that time of year when the mercury is steadily falling. Even in
> North Carolina it has been getting cold enough lately to bring out the
> long sleeves and tights.
>
> I have a lot of the cold issues sorted out as far as what equipment to
> wear at what temperature. However, I still have one nagging problem.
>
> That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
> the front while my back sweats. I have tried different layering
> schemes but none seem to work very well. The layers consist of a long
> sleeve jersey, short sleeve jersey, and a thin fleece jacket if
> temperatures are cold enough.
>
> All of these seem to have the same problem. They appear to breathe too
> well in the front and not well enough in the back.
>
> One question that comes to mind is how tight should these layers be? I
> don't seem to have problem with my legs being cold or sweating. Is
> that because of the material that the tights are made of or is it
> because they are contacting every square inch of skin continuously?
>
> My torso layers are not real loose but are not nearly as tight as my
> tights? Could this be the problem with my torso getting cold in the
> front while sweating in the back?
>
> Thanks for any insight.
>
> Steve


we have some really cool jackets, windproof for those ocold days
check our store
www.bikingthings.com
carlos
- Ride Hard, Stay Fit, Liver Better, Be Happier -
 
Steve Sr. wrote:
> Hello,
>
> It is that time of year when the mercury is steadily falling. Even in
> North Carolina it has been getting cold enough lately to bring out the
> long sleeves and tights.
>
> I have a lot of the cold issues sorted out as far as what equipment to
> wear at what temperature. However, I still have one nagging problem.
>
> That problem is with my chest and inside of my arms getting cold in
> the front while my back sweats. I have tried different layering
> schemes but none seem to work very well. The layers consist of a long
> sleeve jersey, short sleeve jersey, and a thin fleece jacket if
> temperatures are cold enough.
>
> All of these seem to have the same problem. They appear to breathe too
> well in the front and not well enough in the back.
>
> One question that comes to mind is how tight should these layers be? I
> don't seem to have problem with my legs being cold or sweating. Is
> that because of the material that the tights are made of or is it
> because they are contacting every square inch of skin continuously?
>
> My torso layers are not real loose but are not nearly as tight as my
> tights? Could this be the problem with my torso getting cold in the
> front while sweating in the back?


Tight coverings work much better than loose, both thermally and
aerodynamically. This is as true for the torso as for the legs. You want
material that is comfortable worn tight and breathes well. The only
stuff that does this for me is synthetic stretch ("4-way") fleece. I
have tights made from it and a long sleeve jersey. I had to make the top
myself because I couldn't find one off the shelf.

I stopped wearing conventional cycling jackets years ago, they just trap
sweat. My tights are bib style, and in very cold weather I usually add a
stretch fleece vest over the top, so I have 3 fleece layers over my
abdomen. This can still be insufficient to keep my chest from getting
cold, so I usually add a mesh-backed poly vest. The only cold area that
remains is my upper arm/shoulder, I haven't solved that yet.
 
I have to agree that a windstopper does the trick here. I keep the
wind from my arms and torso and make sure there are some vents on the
back. In general it's very hard to keep dry AND warm at the same time
but some time ago I went completely overboard (it looked cool) and
bought a 170$ membrane/windproof jacket that seems to allow sweating
and keep wind out while keeping my back cool. Never had a problem
since.
 
someone writes:

> I have to agree that a windstopper does the trick here. I keep the
> wind from my arms and torso and make sure there are some vents on
> the back. In general it's very hard to keep dry AND warm at the
> same time but some time ago I went completely overboard (it looked
> cool) and bought a 170$ membrane/windproof jacket that seems to
> allow sweating and keep wind out while keeping my back cool. Never
> had a problem since.


If it's wind-proof then vents don't have any effect other than
psychosomatic, the body producing no gas volume to vent. For that to
work, the jacket wold need to allow diffuse air to enter in the front
to vent out the back. I don't know what the designers of these vents
believe how and what they are venting.

Jobst Brandt
 
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:57:25 -0500, "Tim McTeague"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Actually, the figure most often quoted for the amount of body heat lost
>through the head is 40%. A lot, to be sure, but not the most, as 60% is
>lost via the rest of your body.
>
>Tim McTeague


Actually, look at it the other way - it's a tremendous amount: 40%
through an area the size of your head with the entire area of your
body accounting for only 60%. By keeping that one small area covered,
you can reduce you heat loss significantly.
 
jobst.brandt wrote:

> If it's wind-proof then vents don't have any effect other than
> psychosomatic, the body producing no gas volume to vent. For that to
> work, the jacket wold need to allow diffuse air to enter in the front to
> vent out the back. I don't know what the designers of these vents
> believe how and what they are venting.


Water vapor?
 
On 14 Nov 2007 14:00:50 GMT, nmp <[email protected]> wrote:

>> If it's wind-proof then vents don't have any effect other than
>> psychosomatic, the body producing no gas volume to vent. For that to
>> work, the jacket wold need to allow diffuse air to enter in the front to
>> vent out the back. I don't know what the designers of these vents
>> believe how and what they are venting.

>
>Water vapor?


Hot wet air - which takes more volume than colder air. Of course, how
much expansion there is under that jacket, and how much that
relatively narrow temperature range change affects it, is debatable.
 
someone writes:

>>> If it's wind-proof then vents don't have any effect other than
>>> psychosomatic, the body producing no gas volume to vent. For that
>>> to work, the jacket wold need to allow diffuse air to enter in the
>>> front to vent out the back. I don't know what the designers of
>>> these vents believe how and what they are venting.


>> Water vapor?


Guess again. First the sweat must evaporate and then it must be
carried away by airflow... of which there is none if the jacket is
truly wind proof.

> Hot wet air - which takes more volume than colder air. Of course,
> how much expansion there is under that jacket, and how much that
> relatively narrow temperature range change affects it, is debatable.


What is causing the sweat to evaporate and where is the air for this
evaporation entering to escape through vents? Let's consider volume
when thinking about this. A human does not produce moist air. As I
mentioned, wool and synthetic knit-wear allows air to pass, albeit
slowly, the reason for using such materials to keep warm without
becoming soggy and becoming a liquid thermal emitter.

A windbreaker does little good if no loose long sleeved sweater is
worn underneath to break the conductive path from wind/water proof
jacket to rider skin. A windbreaker without a liner in the jacket or
on the rider is not an insulator. It is no better than duct tape
stuck to the body.

Jobst Brandt
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> A windbreaker does little good if no loose long sleeved sweater is
> worn underneath to break the conductive path from wind/water proof
> jacket to rider skin. A windbreaker without a liner in the jacket or
> on the rider is not an insulator. It is no better than duct tape
> stuck to the body.
>
> Jobst Brandt


Pretty funny JB,
just have the guy ride with a windbreaker and nothing but skin underneath
this winter if he's in doubt.
-tom
 
On 2007-11-14, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

> don't bundle up unless you are going out for an all day thingy in
> below freezing; an undershirt, a coolmax jersy, armwarmers and a vest-
> stay warm by riding harder- your system will adapt and you will not
> notice the temp; then in the spring when it starts to warm up you will
> notice you will be flying faster as it gets warmer. take a candybar or
> something for quick energy(heat) if you have to fix a flat and get
> chilled.


If you're dressed so that you have to ride hard to be warm, it's
vital to carry extra layers. Otherwise a mechanical failure that you
can't fix on the road could be life-threatening. The colder and wetter
it gets, the more true that is.
 

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