Steelman Stage Race ?'s (cross post to RBT)

[gabbard]

I am considering a Steelman Stage Race frame. I have spoken to Brent Steelman once on the phone, and he has recommended a 58 or 59 cm, final size to be determined as/if we talk more. I currently own a steel frame, but the fit is not great and it is a very conservative design. I would like to give steel one more chance. I am 6' 1", 170#, will race the bike, love to climb (live in Colorado), no criteriums. I will be using this with a carbon fork, probably the Ouzo Pro.

So, if you own or have owned one of these frames, what did you think? If you bought it from Steelman directly, did you feel comfortable with the fitting process without him seeing you directly? Was the frame perfect, too stifff, not stiff enough? I will probably not upgrade to a fancy tubing set like the EOM unless really needed, so I will be using standard tubing diameters.



Steve

 

[craigstanton]

Steve,

Did you end up purchasing the Steelman? I am also just now considering an SR. In fact, I am just about to put my down payment in, but would be most interested in any further insights you might have. Based on reviews that I've seen, I remain convinced that the SR is worth the extra 600 to 700 $$ (over other $2 grand range bikes that I am researching). What are your thoughts?

Craig

 

[gabbard]

Originally posted by craigstanton
Steve,

Did you end up purchasing the Steelman? I am also just now considering an SR. In fact, I am just about to put my down payment in, but would be most interested in any further insights you might have. Based on reviews that I've seen, I remain convinced that the SR is worth the extra 600 to 700 $$ (over other $2 grand range bikes that I am researching). What are your thoughts?

Craig

No, I have not yet put down a deposit. I am still playing with stems and TT lengths and seat positions, so I am not yet sure exactly the size I would like. They are absolutely beautiful bikes, and I would really like one, but I need to make sure that it will fit first, and understand how I would like it to fit.

Steve

 

[BaCardi]

What about Landshark? That guy is west coast too. He builds steel and built Hampsten's bike way back when Hampsten won the Giro d'Italia.

 

[craigstanton]

Originally posted by BaCardi
What about Landshark? That guy is west coast too. He builds steel and built Hampsten's bike way back when Hampsten won the Giro d'Italia.

Hi BaCardi,

Thanks for the suggestion. My research did include Landshark. I have not had an opportunity to ride a Landshark, but my impressions of the company are favorable. Also, GVH sells Landsharks at discount (groupo/build kit prices are better than Steelman offerings) and is easy to work with, which obviously can make the purchase easy.

I think that I ended up going with the Steelman for several reasons. First, the reviews I've seen are overwhelmingly positive. Brent Steelman is very friendly and will answer any questions. I've also heard that the Landshark can flex too much.

But, all in all, it seems to me if you want steel -- either company will provide a very high quality, relatively affordable customized frame.

 

[BaCardi]

I don't think it's true that you can say Landsharks flex too much. That's really dependent on what tubeset is used and since it is custom, you can get anything you want whether it be stiff or flexy. Same is true with Steelman's. Anyway, good choice. Steelman's have a good reputation.

 

[craigstanton]

Originally posted by BaCardi
I don't think it's true that you can say Landsharks flex too much. That's really dependent on what tubeset is used and since it is custom, you can get anything you want whether it be stiff or flexy. Same is true with Steelman's. Anyway, good choice. Steelman's have a good reputation.

Thanks. BTW, I completely agree with you. For the record, it wasn't me saying the Landsharks flex too much. I was just reporting/parroting what I've heard from several owners. No doubt, there are hundreds/thousands of Landshark owners who would provide a different report . . . because there is little doubt that Landshark is a first-rate frame.

 

[BaCardi]

Yeah, and if anything the newer thin wall tubing in the Steelman's flex too much.

 

[craigstanton]

Originally posted by BaCardi
Yeah, and if anything the newer thin wall tubing in the Steelman's flex too much.

I don't have my frame yet, so I am no position to say. Not having ridden one myself yet.

Also, starting this year Steelman no longer carries pre-made stock frames. So, considering that all frames are made custom to order, it's not really accurate to say "the newer thin wall tubing." The Stage Race frames are all made of 853, and vary in additional tubing that may or may not be used depending on a variety of factors.

It's not really fair, or accurate (as you already poointed out) to generalize in this way when talkiing about Landshark or Steelman frames. After all, part of the point of purchasing such a frame is to end up with a frame that is built made-to-order. A wide variety of factors can influence the extent to which one steel frame flexes or doesn't flex more than others.

 

[BaCardi]

I know. I was just going off what you were saying. Steelman's can be too flexy or too stiff depending on tubing choices.

 

[gabbard]

Originally posted by craigstanton
I don't have my frame yet, so I am no position to say. Not having ridden one myself yet.

Also, starting this year Steelman no longer carries pre-made stock frames. So, considering that all frames are made custom to order, it's not really accurate to say "the newer thin wall tubing." The Stage Race frames are all made of 853, and vary in additional tubing that may or may not be used depending on a variety of factors.

Before the price increase, I believe that the Steelman frames were made of 853 and Dedaccia 14.5, and for an upcharge you could get Deda 16.5 tubing. 853 is middle of the road compared to the 16.5 and S3 tubing thicknesses. In theory, the 16.5 tubing is as stiff and lighter. Probably not as durable in a crash, but who ever crashes?

Steve

 

[BaCardi]

Steelman's are good, but the pre-made Steelman frames can either be too flexy or too stiff. Landshark's have never been pre-made so the tubing stiffness has always been up to the rider picking the tubeset.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by BaCardi
Yeah, and if anything the newer thin wall tubing in the Steelman's flex too much.

That's just alot of hooey.It's daimeter that matters most. A very stiff frame can be made with the thinnest tubing available.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by BaCardi
Steelman's are good, but the pre-made Steelman frames can either be too flexy or too stiff. Landshark's have never been pre-made so the tubing stiffness has always been up to the rider picking the tubeset.

What is this hooey? When do riders know more about the correct tubeset than the builders? I wonder if you are not just generalizing without really having a clue.

 

[craigstanton]

In my experience, the process of purchasing/building a custom frame (or even a pre-made Steelman frame) involves far more than simply plunking your money down. Frame rigidity is just one factor among many that should be considered. If, for example, a builder discovers that you are very tall -- he will likely make recommendations that account for this fact before simply selling you a stock frame.

Here is how the process worked for me: the purchaser/rider works with the builder; the builder obtains information from the purchaser (hieght, weight, boidy measurements, riding style, etc . . .), and after further conversation said builder makes recommendations with respect to frame measurements, material, thickness. I wouldn't think of second guessing the builder - in this case Brent Steelman. I trust that his knowledge is vastly superior to my own on such questions.

Whether or not a frame is too rigid/not sufficiently rigid - it seems to me - is a matter of personal preference. As you all know, there has been a great deal of debate on this question, and it seems unlikely that anyone will settle the debate in the near future.

BaCardi seems to suggest/imply that Landshark is in some way superior to Steelman. Unless someone has ridden both, I would take their opinion with a grain of salt. Even if someone has ridden both, I would still take their opinion with a grain of salt. After all, everything else being equal, we all have different preferences.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by craigstanton
In my experience, the process of purchasing/building a custom frame (or even a pre-made Steelman frame) involves far more than simply plunking your money down. Frame rigidity is just one factor among many that should be considered. If, for example, a builder discovers that you are very tall -- he will likely make recommendations that account for this fact before simply selling you a stock frame.

Here is how the process worked for me: the purchaser/rider works with the builder; the builder obtains information from the purchaser (hieght, weight, boidy measurements, riding style, etc . . .), and after further conversation said builder makes recommendations with respect to frame measurements, material, thickness. I wouldn't think of second guessing the builder - in this case Brent Steelman. I trust that his knowledge is vastly superior to my own on such questions.

Whether or not a frame is too rigid/not sufficiently rigid - it seems to me - is a matter of personal preference. As you all know, there has been a great deal of debate on this question, and it seems unlikely that anyone will settle the debate in the near future.

BaCardi seems to suggest/imply that Landshark is in some way superior to Steelman. Unless someone has ridden both, I would take their opinion with a grain of salt. Even if someone has ridden both, I would still take their opinion with a grain of salt. After all, everything else being equal, we all have different preferences.

Well said, and no hooey.

 

[craigstanton]

Steve,

By the way, I am now going through the fitting process without actually seing Brent in person. I don't yet have my frame, so I can't really offer much insight on how well the fitting process works yet. But, when I do receive the frame -- if you are still in the market for a new frame -- I'll be happy to share my impressions of the experience with you.

I am only 5'10", and I weigh about 155. So, my experience might not generalize very well to your body type. But, I will be using the frame for the same sorts of riding as you, sounds like. Maybe fewer mountains. Out here in Md. we don't really have mountains. Just big hills.

Anyway, since we last spoke I put my order in . . . and I'll be happy to give you my impressions as the transaction progresses.

Best,
Craig

 

[BaCardi]

Originally posted by craigstanton
BaCardi seems to suggest/imply that Landshark is in some way superior to Steelman. Unless someone has ridden both, I would take their opinion with a grain of salt. Even if someone has ridden both, I would still take their opinion with a grain of salt. After all, everything else being equal, we all have different preferences.

Oops. That's not what I mean. For clarity, both Steelman and Landshark are both equally competent builders. I highly doubt that one is better than the other. Just pointing out that
Landshark built Hampsten's bike in the Giro 1988 and a bunch of 7-Eleven bikes that were repainted. Steelman's can be flexy or too stiff depending on tubeset.

 

[BaCardi]

Originally posted by boudreaux
What is this hooey? When do riders know more about the correct tubeset than the builders? I wonder if you are not just generalizing without really having a clue.

Maybe not you, but I know that if I were to order a custom frame, I would know what I want based from years of experience with other bikes. I can flatly state that I'd like a bike a little less stiff than what I currently have. And if I know the tube diameters wall thicknesses, etc, then I am closer to a better bike on my next custom build. This info would be relayed to the builder, of course. So, yes, I know more about what I want than the builder.

 

[gabbard]

Craig,

Since I was not getting a custom frame, I am still not sure that the stock frames will fit me. I have not ridden enough frames to be super sure of my sizing, so I am probably not going to get a Steelman because I can not afford the price for the new all-custom frames (very sad). My current bike was a custom frame that I spent too much money on, and I am not sure that it fits well, so I am little bit shy about spending the $1950 on another one until I can look at the lengths and angles and feel comfortable with it. I am not supposing that I know how to build the frame better than the builder, but my current frame is too big, and I would like to be able a least look at a frame and know that it looks about right.

Keep us posted on the Steelman experience. I'm just bummer that I missed the window and should have bought one last year.

Steve