Stem search

[Tony R]

Hello all, anyone know a mail order source of an 80mm. 3T Synthesis quill stem? I could only find
Parker International and they have none left. Or can anyone recommend an alternative in this length
of similar quality? ( 1" threaded steerer). I've new 3T Morphe Randonneur bars on order which I'd
rather not scratch to bits which is why my first choice was a Synthesis - I've used one before with
3T bars with no bother. Thanks, tony R.

 

[Pete Biggs]

tony R wrote:
> Hello all, anyone know a mail order source of an 80mm. 3T Synthesis quill stem? I could only find
> Parker International and they have none left. Or can anyone recommend an alternative in this
> length of similar quality? ( 1" threaded steerer). I've new 3T Morphe Randonneur bars on order
> which I'd rather not scratch to bits which is why my first choice was a Synthesis - I've used one
> before with 3T bars with no bother.

www.settlecycles.co.uk/shop lists the model though not that size, but they'll probably order for you
if their distributor can get it, and postage will be £0. (Settle has ordered odd sized chainrings
not mentioned on website for me before).

St John's Street Cycles have a few 80's. They're probably reasonable quality - although I'm not
sure. Not too many very _good_ 80mm quills about, so alternatively, you might possibly be
comfortable with a 90mm as the Morphe offers shorter reach than average bars in itself.

Another alternative would be to use an ahead stem with a quill adaptor. Won't be as nice looking but
should work well, and they'll be an increased choice of stems - especially ones with removable face
plates (to make future stem swapping a doddle). Take "rise" angle into account of these when chosing
length (this can be a complicated business! ...although there is an chart online somewhere to help).

~PB

 

[Jon Schneider]

Don't know if you can do that these days.

I heard that stem sell research was illegal

Jon

 

[David E. Belche]

"Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> www.settlecycles.co.uk/shop lists the model though not that size, but they'll probably order for
> you if their distributor can get it, and postage will be £0. (Settle has ordered odd sized
> chainrings not mentioned on website for me before).
>
> St John's Street Cycles have a few 80's. They're probably reasonable quality - although I'm not
> sure. Not too many very _good_ 80mm quills about, so alternatively, you might possibly be
> comfortable with a 90mm as the Morphe offers shorter reach than average bars in itself.

Deeside also offers the Synthesis, for about 19 quid. The website doesn't say anything about sizes,
though. From memory, Wiggle may stock them too.

> Another alternative would be to use an ahead stem with a quill adaptor.

There are still more quill stems about than people realise, it's getting hold of them that seems to
be the problem, since the marketing men are trying to convince us all that threadless is the only
real option. 3T and Cinelli appear to have cut back their quill ranges, but a visit to the online
ITM catalogue for 2003 reveals a wide range (choose from TIG steel, welded Al, forged Al or Ti) to
suit all tastes and wallets, from the weighty Cromo Deluxe budget model to the Krystal titanium
stem. My personal favourite, the Eclypse, is thankfully still going (though at least one retailer
has tried to convince me otherwise).

David E. Belcher

Dept. of Chemistry, University of York

 

[Pete Biggs]

David E. Belcher wrote:
> There are still more quill stems about than people realise, it's getting hold of them that seems
> to be the problem, since the marketing men are trying to convince us all that threadless is the
> only real option. 3T and Cinelli appear to have cut back their quill ranges, but a visit to the
> online ITM catalogue for 2003 reveals a wide range (choose from TIG steel, welded Al, forged Al or
> Ti) to suit all tastes and wallets, from the weighty Cromo Deluxe budget model to the Krystal
> titanium stem. My personal favourite, the Eclypse, is thankfully still going (though at least one
> retailer has tried to convince me otherwise).

This is the case for so many things I like. Manufacturers make them but no-one seems to
sell them :-(

~PB

 

[M-Gineering Imp]

Pete Biggs wrote:

> This is the case for so many things I like. Manufacturers make them but no-one seems to sell
> them :-(
>

Or manufacturers put a picture in the cataloque and keep the tooling, but nobody places an order.

--
Marten

 

[Pete Biggs]

M-Gineering import & framebouw wrote:

>> This is the case for so many things I like. Manufacturers make them but no-one seems to sell
>> them :-(
>
> Or manufacturers put a picture in the cataloque and keep the tooling, but nobody places an order.

It would be so nice if cyclists could order individual items direct from the manufacturer.
Unfortunately, dealers and distributors are often reluctant to order unusual items or chase-up any
orders when they do. Must be over a year since I ordered a certain headset part!! ...Seems to have
got forgotten about - but I'm not bothered anymore because the bike it was for was smashed up by
someone from uk.tosspot (probably)

~PB

 

[Tony R]

"Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> tony R wrote:
> > Hello all, anyone know a mail order source of an 80mm. 3T Synthesis quill stem?

>
> www.settlecycles.co.uk/shop lists the model though not that size, but they'll probably order for
> you if their distributor can get it, and postage will be £0. (Settle has ordered odd sized
> chainrings not mentioned on website for me before).

I already asked them if they had any and they didn't offer to order one. I've just had a look at
3T's website and they seem to list the Synthesis as starting from 100mm. now. So possibly when shops
are out that's it. They also list the Record 84 as now starting from 80mm. whereas shops seem to
only advertise 60/70 mm. Just my luck.
>
> St John's Street Cycles have a few 80's. They're probably reasonable quality - although I'm not
> sure. Not too many very _good_ 80mm quills about, so alternatively, you might possibly be
> comfortable with a 90mm as the Morphe offers shorter reach than average bars in itself.

I had already sort of factored this in (I hope). There's still scope for a slight reduction in reach
with my current bars, so I'm hoping the Morphes will be perfect.

> Another alternative would be to use an ahead stem with a quill adaptor.

I'd really rather not except as a last resort. More expense and more faff and quill stems do a
perfectly adequate job as far as I can tell. I'm not generally a miserable old Luddite but....... Oh
****, I've just realised I've still got down-tube levers, 7 speed block, cantilever brakes.......

Thanks for the help, tony R.

 

[Tony R]

"David E. Belcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >

>
> Deeside also offers the Synthesis, for about 19 quid. The website doesn't say anything about
> sizes, though. From memory, Wiggle may stock them too.

Thanks David. Deeside do indeed list an 80mm so I'll try them next.

tony R.

 

[Marten Hoffmann]

pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc schreef ...
> M-Gineering import & framebouw wrote:
>
> >> This is the case for so many things I like. Manufacturers make them but no-one seems to sell
> >> them :-(
> >
> > Or manufacturers put a picture in the cataloque and keep the tooling, but nobody places an
> > order.
>
> It would be so nice if cyclists could order individual items direct from the manufacturer.

Don't know if this is still the case but one was able to order a one-off stem from Salsa.

> Unfortunately, dealers and distributors are often reluctant to order unusual items or chase-up any
> orders when they do.

This is not only a problem in the bike business ;-(

--
Mvg, Marten

 

[Pete Biggs]

tony R wrote:

>> Another alternative would be to use an ahead stem with a quill adaptor.
>
> I'd really rather not except as a last resort. More expense and more faff and quill stems do a
> perfectly adequate job as far as I can tell.

I don't blame you - I would rather use a quill stem too with threaded forks (unless wanting to use a
_special_ ahead stem one already has - which is exactly what I hope to do soon), but just to explain
in case you or anyone else is thinking there's more faff and expense than there actually is.......

A quill adaptor costs between £5 and £15 and is just like the shaft of a quill stem but without the
horizontal bit. Has a wedge expander, just bung it in as normal. Ahead stem then simply clamps to
it. Height adjustment is made as normal with quill stems (no business with spacers and all that).
Existing threaded headset is completely unaffected. The combination acts just like a quill stem.
Decent threadless stems can be cheaper than quills so that helps balance the cost, and front opening
clamps considerably reduces fitting hassle. Result should be stiff enough; weight maybe slightly
increased.

I think the only major downsides are about working out what size is required and the appearance.
...Will look ugly if you like classic stems.

> I'm not generally a miserable old Luddite but....... Oh ****, I've just realised I've still got
> down-tube levers, 7 speed block, cantilever brakes.......

7 speed!! That's modern, m8! I was still using 6sp on me old tourer until a few weeks ago.

~PB

 

[David E. Belche]

"tony R" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> I'd really rather not except as a last resort. More expense and more faff and quill stems do a
> perfectly adequate job as far as I can tell. I'm not generally a miserable old Luddite but.......
> Oh ****, I've just realised I've still got down-tube levers, 7 speed block, cantilever
> brakes.......
>

I wouldn't worry about it - I'm still only on 8sp (and screw-on 8sp at that until very recently!),
with cantilevers that are about 17 years old (but work brilliantly with Ergo levers), as is the
frame itself; lugged Columbus SL steel complete with threaded steerer. None of which stops it being
an enjoyable bike, though!

David E. Belcher

Dept. of Chemistry, University of York

 

[Tony R]

"Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> A quill adaptor costs between £5 and £15 and is just like the shaft of a quill stem but without
> the horizontal bit. Has a wedge expander, just bung it in as normal. Ahead stem then simply clamps
> to it. Height adjustment is made as normal with quill stems (no business with spacers and all
> that). Existing threaded headset is completely unaffected. The combination acts just like a quill
> stem. Decent threadless stems can be cheaper than quills so that helps balance the cost, and front
> opening clamps considerably reduces fitting hassle. Result should be stiff enough; weight maybe
> slightly increased.

Just been knocked back by some more retailers (including Deeside and another company who reckon 3T
no longer make any 80mm. quill stems at all - seems a bit odd to me) so this information could be
very helpful, thanks Pete.
>
> I think the only major downsides are about working out what size is required and the appearance.
> ...Will look ugly if you like classic stems.

Yes, the size issue. How would I work out what length to go for given the different angles? eg. 3T
"THE" stem is 78 degree as opposed to the 72 degree I'm used to. Also do quill/Ahead adaptors also
adapt 1" to 11/8"?

tony R.

 

[Tony R]

"David E. Belcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "tony R" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... I'm not
> > generally a miserable old Luddite but....... Oh ****, I've just realised I've still got
> > down-tube levers, 7 speed block, cantilever brakes.......
> >
>
> I wouldn't worry about it - I'm still only on 8sp (and screw-on 8sp at that until very recently!),
> with cantilevers that are about 17 years old (but work brilliantly with Ergo levers), as is the
> frame itself; lugged Columbus SL steel complete with threaded steerer. None of which stops it
> being an enjoyable bike, though!
>
> David E. Belcher

That makes me feel better. Although, whisper it, I forgot to mention the toeclips.... tony R.

 

[Pete Biggs]

tony R wrote:
>> A quill adaptor costs between £5 and £15 and is just like the shaft of a quill stem but without
>> the horizontal bit. Has a wedge expander, just bung it in as normal. Ahead stem then simply
>> clamps to it. Height adjustment is made as normal with quill stems (no business with spacers and
>> all that). Existing threaded headset is completely unaffected. The combination acts just like a
>> quill stem. Decent threadless stems can be cheaper than quills so that helps balance the cost,
>> and front opening clamps considerably reduces fitting hassle. Result should be stiff enough;
>> weight maybe slightly increased.
>
> Just been knocked back by some more retailers (including Deeside and another company who reckon 3T
> no longer make any 80mm. quill stems at all - seems a bit odd to me) so this information could be
> very helpful, thanks Pete.
>>
>> I think the only major downsides are about working out what size is required and the appearance.
>> ...Will look ugly if you like classic stems.
>
> Yes, the size issue. How would I work out what length to go for given the different angles? eg. 3T
> "THE" stem is 78 degree as opposed to the 72 degree I'm used to.

This chart may help: http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html ....Would take quite a lot of extra rise
to make a /considerable/ difference to the reach, though.

I would probably try one of SJS's quills first - perhaps an ITM or Kalloy. Need to make sure
handlebar clamp diameter is suitable. Morphe is 25.8.
26. stem should be fine, dunno about 25.4. ("-18 degrees" = 72 degrees).

Another point on the angles: Most modern quill stems don't have very long shafts so, depending on
you & bike, you might possibly have trouble getting stem high enough (80mm is short - short stems
normally need to be high as well for comfort). A stem with plenty of rise angle will help here. A
90mm might make more sense if angle is very steep.

> Also do quill/Ahead adaptors also adapt 1" to 11/8"?

Yes, they (and/or the stem) usually come with shims to allow them to work with both sizes.

---------
I know all this is a bit of a nightmare - deciding on what reach will be comfortable, as much as the
calculations - so that's why I'll be using my double-articulated Look ErgoStem (if can get repaired)
to try and get a more upright relaxed position on my tourer. Very expensive, heavy and ugly option,
though - but does provide peace of mind in knowing it can provide just about any position
imaginable.

~PB

 

[Tony R]

"Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> >
> > Yes, the size issue. How would I work out what length to go for given the different angles? eg.
> > 3T "THE" stem is 78 degree as opposed to the 72 degree I'm used to.
>
> This chart may help: http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html ....Would take quite a lot of extra
> rise to make a /considerable/ difference to the reach, though.

That's a great page. Being able to read off how the different options trade off against each other
is more than useful - if I understood it correctly.
>
> I would probably try one of SJS's quills first - perhaps an ITM or Kalloy.

I already have an 80mm. cheapo stem I bought to test out whether a shorter reach would suit me (
after urc advice a couple of months ago). I now know it does suit me - back pain has disappeared and
I like the different handling as well. However it scratched the hell out of my old bars. They were
next up for replacing anyway (too narrow). So the plan was to get a nice quill stem that would match
my new bars better. So much for the plan. I'm actually quite tempted by the adaptor solution now.
Both my quill stems were used at the maximum height they'd allow. Assuming an adaptor has a similar
height I can then get extra using the ahead stem angle/s and still fine tune with the adaptor shaft.
Or am I forgetting about something? Hope you get your Look stem fixed ok, you wouldn't want to shell
out for too many of those. thanks again for the help, tony R.

 

[Pete Biggs]

tony R wrote: /snip
> I already have an 80mm. cheapo stem I bought to test out whether a shorter reach would suit me (
> after urc advice a couple of months ago). I now know it does suit me - back pain has disappeared
> and I like the different handling as well. However it scratched the hell out of my old bars. They
> were next up for replacing anyway (too narrow). So the plan was to get a nice quill stem that
> would match my new bars better. So much for the plan. I'm actually quite tempted by the adaptor
> solution now. Both my quill stems were used at the maximum height they'd allow. Assuming an
> adaptor has a similar height I can then get extra using the ahead stem angle/s and still fine tune
> with the adaptor shaft. Or am I forgetting about something?

No, you're right. The adaptor may not offer quite as much height as some quill stems but the rise of
the ahead can more than make up for that.

> Hope you get your Look stem fixed ok, you wouldn't want to shell out for too many of those.

Thanks, I put it in for repair several weeks ago (to get sterrer clamp threads helicoiled) and I'm
loosing patience now! So I'm getting get a cheap non-adjustable stem for the meantime.

> thanks again for the help,

You're welcome, happy to help ...In fact, all the thinking and reserach has helped me as well
because (without the ErgoStem) I'm in virtually the same situation as you with my tourer. I want a
short stem to use with Morphe's (probably, possibly other bars instead). I'm also having trouble
finding a suitable quill - I think most of SJS's are for use with 25.4 bars - so I'm gonna try an
80mm 3T "The" ahead stem (what a stupid name!) with an adaptor. (The stem is not available in 90mm).
...Bit worried I'm going OTT because current quill stem is 105mm.

Another little advantage of aheads I forgot to mention is that they all can be flipped - turned
upside down - so unless it's a 90 degree, you effectively get two stems in one with different
angles. Can sometimes help if unsure about what reach and height is required. So, for example, a
stem described as 100 degree or +10 degrees will be an 80 or -10 when flipped.

Back to quills though, a solution to getting a little bit more height should be the Sugino "high
column nut". I think it takes the place of headset locknut and simply allows stem's limit to be
safely raised up to top of nut. See http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm - Headset Spares

BTW, the finish on the Morphe is so polished and smooth that they're less susceptable to
scratching than most bars when fitting a quill stem. Grease on the bends will help as well but
then might be a good idea to degrease stem once it's at the middle. ...Not sure how that could be
done but it's an idea

~PB

 

[Andrew Sweetman]

Pete Biggs <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote ...
> Back to quills though, a solution to getting a little bit more height should be the Sugino "high
> column nut". I think it takes the place of headset locknut and simply allows stem's limit to be
> safely raised up to top of nut. See http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm - Headset Spares
>

If you try this, you should always make sure that the expander cone remains below the threaded part
of the steerer tube. A friend recently had a fatigue failure on the fork steerer at the base of the
cone, which was sitting in the threaded part. The result was a broken cheekbone and a dislocated
kneecap when the bars came off. He was using this or a similar top locknut on his headset. A recent
discussion on the AUK mailing list brought to light 3 other similar failures. A wedge may be safer
than a cone, but I wouldn't want to rely on it.

Andrew

 

[Tony R]

"Andrew Sweetman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Pete Biggs <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote ...
> > Back to quills though, a solution to getting a little bit more height should be the Sugino "high
> > column nut". I think it takes the place of headset locknut and simply allows stem's limit to be
> > safely raised up to top of nut. See http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm - Headset Spares
> >
>
> If you try this, you should always make sure that the expander cone
remains
> below the threaded part of the steerer tube. A friend recently had a fatigue failure on the fork
> steerer at the base of the cone, which was sitting in the threaded part. The result was a broken
> cheekbone and a dislocated kneecap when the bars came off. He was using this or a similar top
> locknut on his headset. A recent discussion on the AUK mailing list brought to light 3 other
similar
> failures. A wedge may be safer than a cone, but I wouldn't want to rely on it.
>
> Andrew
>
Thanks for that Andrew. I'll bear this in mind. tony R.

 

[David E. Belche]

"tony R" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "
>
> That makes me feel better. Although, whisper it, I forgot to mention the toeclips....

Toeclips? Haven't used 'em for a good 8-9 years; no doubt I could probably recall how to, at a push
(not literally, of course - that sort of thing tends to make you fall over when in toeclips, esp. if
the straps are too tight!)....

David E. Belcher

Dept. of Chemistry, University of York