Stick to the rules alltogether!

[Frigo's Luggage]

And it takes more courage to do this than to implicate others.

No it takes courage to tell the truth. Andreu was couregous because he risked his livelihood to tell the truth. Zabel is courageous because he risked the rest of his career by telling the truth. Riis is courageous....

Heras, Basso, Hamilton, Landis, etc. are not courageous. Just self interested.

 

[yeloooooo]

The truth is that cycling will never be dope free. Way too much money in it to be so. The fans do not object to doping. The riders do not object to doping. The cycling bodies only started caring when the ProTour came about.
I don't see anyone who matters in cycling really doing anything about it. We have a few people in the non cycling world that are seeking headlines.
Now who do you think is clean?

Just something i picked up on here, I personally think it is people like you who have got cycling where it is today. You are so ingrained in the doping culture of the sport that you don't care anymore that riders dope. That's the truth of it. You say fans don't care about it, well let me tell you that they do.

Maybe not fans like you, but why would anyone get into cycling now, how can youngsters have heroes with the amount of failed drugs tests and suspicions. Okay established fans like yourself might not be bothered, as you obviously accept it as being part of the sport. That is the very problem, too many people for far too long have accepted it as "part of the sport" thats how we are in this mess now.

Let me tell you that cycling fans do indeed care about doping, I don't really care if you've been watching cycling for 20 years or whatever, but if the sport carries on the way it is, there will be no fans left in another 20years.

 

[Rolfrae]

Just something i picked up on here, I personally think it is people like you who have got cycling where it is today. You are so ingrained in the doping culture of the sport that you don't care anymore that riders dope. That's the truth of it. You say fans don't care about it, well let me tell you that they do.

Maybe not fans like you, but why would anyone get into cycling now, how can youngsters have heroes with the amount of failed drugs tests and suspicions. Okay established fans like yourself might not be bothered, as you obviously accept it as being part of the sport. That is the very problem, too many people for far too long have accepted it as "part of the sport" thats how we are in this mess now.

Let me tell you that cycling fans do indeed care about doping, I don't really care if you've been watching cycling for 20 years or whatever, but if the sport carries on the way it is, there will be no fans left in another 20years.

Amen to that. I read an article in a British newspaper that suggested that cycling fans didn't care if the riders were doped - but that is not the case. Yes we know that doping isn't new, yes we know that the UCI has been complicit in doping for years and has made a hash of "cleaning up" the sport, yes we know that the riders who have been caught doping weren't riding against a clean opposition - BUT - most of us have had it with doping and the lies. I stopped reading cycling magazines and interviews because I was sick of riders like Basso (when he was at CSC) making out his long hours of training were all that made him such a great rider. I was and am sick of riders and team managers and race officials lying. We want some truth in our sport. We want to know that the toughest man won, not that the best doctor and biggest, most shame-faced liar won.

 

[adrian knight]

If this is a valid observation (and I believe it is), then why are we even giving professional sport the time of day? That said, we are all puppets for the corporate world. Which one of us isn't exploited every day...we all have jobs and nice bikes right? The only way is to drop out and live in a cave close to a berry tree (for food). Who'll join me??

There are no official rules for Pro Sports, only public pretext, marketing themes and behind the stage crew orders.

Prize money is wholly irrelevant, endorsements make the icon.

If Nike endorsed Tiger Woods needs help, and it is close---he always gets it, from ball placement and including if the wheels need to fall off his closest competitor on Sunday. Rigged Quiz Shows are the perfect TV model.

FIFA is full of illegal gaming action, fixed events and ubiquitous doping, yet little media attention is devoted to reporting such crimes.

Hein Verbruggen, Pat McQuaid, Richard Pound, David Duffield, Phil Liggett, Franbkie Andreu, Paul Sherwin, Bobby Ventura, Lance Pharmstrong, Al Trautwig all serve the same master---the TV/radio/print Networks.

True sport cannot function on televsion. Random winners hurt the brand names.

The Holocaust was no joke, yet many rolled their eyes at it. Emotion, greed, denial and hypocrisy drive man.

 

[jhuskey]

If this is a valid observation (and I believe it is), then why are we even giving professional sport the time of day? That said, we are all puppets for the corporate world. Which one of us isn't exploited every day...we all have jobs and nice bikes right? The only way is to drop out and live in a cave close to a berry tree (for food). Who'll join me??

I was thinking more along the lines of a tent between a liquor store and a strip joint.

 

[wolfix]

Amen to that. I read an article in a British newspaper that suggested that cycling fans didn't care if the riders were doped - but that is not the case. Yes we know that doping isn't new, yes we know that the UCI has been complicit in doping for years and has made a hash of "cleaning up" the sport, yes we know that the riders who have been caught doping weren't riding against a clean opposition - BUT - most of us have had it with doping and the lies. I stopped reading cycling magazines and interviews because I was sick of riders like Basso (when he was at CSC) making out his long hours of training were all that made him such a great rider. I was and am sick of riders and team managers and race officials lying. We want some truth in our sport. We want to know that the toughest man won, not that the best doctor and biggest, most shame-faced liar won.

The turn out in London was huge...... So, if they fans really do not want to see the riders , doped or not, why didn't they stay home. What the fans do not want is the witch hunt and the inconsistency of the cycling powers going on...........
No one wants dope. But the way it is being handled is worse then the doping going on.
There are far better ways to handle the situation and controls.
And again....... Not much going right now is about preventing doping. It is just the leverage the UCI/ASO are using against each other. Once the argument is over, it will be business as usual. So in the mean tiome, we have a situation that really sucks.

 

[JohnO]

It won't be easy to be patient for a guy on wooden shoes but I will give it a try

We're hillbillies. We don't wear shoes at all. Except cycling shoes, of course. Rather hard to clip in with just your toes... you might fall over and spill the 'shine.

 

[Hein-Verbruggen]

Ah yes, the apathy argument. Quite valid---except that hypocrisy MUST be included for apathy to work.

For example: Only a supreme hypocrite could lecture us on anti-doping matters AND still celebrate a seven year string of drug cheating TDF victories AND carry on that fraud into Cancer fundraising/marketing of $300 sneaker sales.

That is more than apathy. That is the worship of fraud and deception.

The Holocaust began much the same way.

The present situation in sport is great. More transparent than ever before.
It is harder to steal when everyone is watching you.

The turn out in London was huge...... So, if they fans really do not want to see the riders , doped or not, why didn't they stay home. What the fans do not want is the witch hunt and the inconsistency of the cycling powers going on...........
No one wants dope. But the way it is being handled is worse then the doping going on.
There are far better ways to handle the situation and controls.
And again....... Not much going right now is about preventing doping. It is just the leverage the UCI/ASO are using against each other. Once the argument is over, it will be business as usual. So in the mean tiome, we have a situation that really sucks.

 

[Klodifan]

If only the rules would stick!

In this present state, the rules are so arbitrary that the implementation or lack thereof is having a more detrimental impact than doping. And that is just wrong! Fans are turned off and, more importantly, sponsors are turned off. Regardless of how one personally feels about Unibet, they were royally screwed.

Where are the leaders? The vacuum has been filled with petty politics.

If an organization doesn't abide by its own code of conduct than how worthy is that entity? Where is the quality? Where is the integrity?

What we have here is a capricious code of conduct held in custody by supercilious, short-sighted suspects.

 

[Hein-Verbruggen]

The rules are quite simple. If fans are confused it is only because they are emotionally attached to a specific drug cheater--and they seek unlimited protection for that cheat. (eg: Team Astana dopers, T-Mobile, Discovery)

No lying (conduct unbecoming)
No cow blood
No blood transfusions
No EPO
No hGH
No exogenpous testosterone
No insulin
No thyroid boosters
No stimulants
No vasodiliations (Viagra)
No Interleukins, IGF-1, IGF-3
No research drugs (RSR-13, Hempure, Polyheme, Actovegin, CERA)
No asthma steroids w/o a TUE, and no more than 1,000 mls
No codes using dog names
No permitting individual victories with doped teammates (Armstrong/Andreu, Joachim)

The leaders at the IOC, UCI and of trade teams are all crooks, dopers and cheats. That's why the abovementioned rules are broken on a daily basis.

If only the rules would stick!

In this present state, the rules are so arbitrary that the implementation or lack thereof is having a more detrimental impact than doping. And that is just wrong! Fans are turned off and, more importantly, sponsors are turned off. Regardless of how one personally feels about Unibet, they were royally screwed.

Where are the leaders? The vacuum has been filled with petty politics.

If an organization doesn't abide by its own code of conduct than how worthy is that entity? Where is the quality? Where is the integrity?

What we have here is a capricious code of conduct held in custody by supercilious, short-sighted suspects.

 

[Klodifan]

Amen to that. I read an article in a British newspaper that suggested that cycling fans didn't care if the riders were doped - but that is not the case. Yes we know that doping isn't new, yes we know that the UCI has been complicit in doping for years and has made a hash of "cleaning up" the sport, yes we know that the riders who have been caught doping weren't riding against a clean opposition - BUT - most of us have had it with doping and the lies. I stopped reading cycling magazines and interviews because I was sick of riders like Basso (when he was at CSC) making out his long hours of training were all that made him such a great rider. I was and am sick of riders and team managers and race officials lying. We want some truth in our sport. We want to know that the toughest man won, not that the best doctor and biggest, most shame-faced liar won.

I am for truth, but who are counting the costs? the riders who are disposable, who suffer primarily for fleeting glory that rarely comes to fruition.

I am not a doping apologist. I hate doping. But the present course of action will not rid the sport of doping. Doping is a mere ruse for the "men" who are fighting for control. Most cycling fans with more than two brain cells know this already.

On the one hand, pushing the doping agenda to the forefront of the sport could be seen as a brilliant way to jockey for position. The casual fans and public in general will look on with favor that the sport if trying to clean itself up. Riders who are targeted and have aligned with figures whose power is fading or have crossed figures whose power is gaining will be conveniently exposed as dopers and driven away from the peloton. and the people behind said riders weaken. Races will be compromised and blood will be shed, but at least the peloton will be "clean". Power will thus be concentrated for the need of the "protectors of a pure peloton".

This strategy is, of course, short-sighted. Credibility is shattered. Dopers who are in favor will continue to ride and manipulate races. Cycling fans will become more cynical and casual fans may believe the reform or will snicker at the spectacle.

Doping must be eradicated, but it must be done so judiciously, not arbitrarily. It must be a sincere fight, not used as a weapon for power. Is there hope? There is always hope that leadership and integrity can be restored. Yet under these regimes, in all main controlling entities of the sport, hope is waning...

 

[thoughtforfood]

Or if you prefer you can give more brilliant insight into why the tests should have been positive but were not.

Ferrari, etc are experts in masking doping agents, that is one of the reasons they get paid a lot of money......oh yea, forgot to tell you, OJ did it.

 

[Hein-Verbruggen]

No need to mask most peptide hormones as no WADA/UCI/IOC tests yet exist:

growth hormones (horse & human)
insulin
IGF-1, IGF-3
Interleukins
Many corticosteroids
exogenous testosterone with a T/E ratio at < 4:1
female fertility hormones, hCG, Clomid with a T/E ratio < 4:1
post menopause hormones
EPO (urine test very easy to beat)
cow blood cells (never been one bust yet)
human red cell packs, when using your own blood
RSR-13
C.E.R.A from Roche Pharma
Prozac
Viagra

Knock yourself out. These Olympic drugs are all cleared for takeoff.

Ferrari, etc are experts in masking doping agents, that is one of the reasons they get paid a lot of money......oh yea, forgot to tell you, OJ did it.

 

[jonjungel]

No need to mask most peptide hormones as no WADA/UCI/IOC tests yet exist:

<lots of stuff>
Viagra

Theres one that should be pretty easy to test for

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

The turn out in London was huge...... So, if they fans really do not want to see the riders , doped or not, why didn't they stay home. What the fans do not want is the witch hunt and the inconsistency of the cycling powers going on...........
No one wants dope. But the way it is being handled is worse then the doping going on.
There are far better ways to handle the situation and controls.
And again....... Not much going right now is about preventing doping. It is just the leverage the UCI/ASO are using against each other. Once the argument is over, it will be business as usual. So in the mean tiome, we have a situation that really sucks.

Wolfix,

In January 2006 you said: "A first year law student could get this thrown out of court..." That seems to be a popular phrase around here. "No Positives" likes to say it. JSull14 likes to say it. So, Wolfix, are you "No Positives" and JSull14?

Frigo

 

[Hein-Verbruggen]

Theres one that should be pretty easy to test for

That's why they NEVER do the IRMS testosterone test----unless you tilt the ratio and cannot get Nike to fix it. 100% of the riders would flunk an IRMS test.

That's why it is SNOW SHOW BUSINESS.

 

[wolfix]

Wolfix,

In January 2006 you said: "A first year law student could get this thrown out of court..." That seems to be a popular phrase around here. "No Positives" likes to say it. JSull14 likes to say it. So, Wolfix, are you "No Positives" and JSull14?

Frigo

I;m neither, I don't have to play games. However, the phrase you are referring to is a common American phrase.

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

I;m neither, I don't have to play games. However, the phrase you are referring to is a common American phrase.

Thanks. I apologize for the false accusation.

 

[Gregers]

If I were Wolfix I would be incandescent at any association with the banal opinions of No Pos. or whatever amalgam of names he/she/it/dog/***** is currently using. Although I frequently find myself in complete disagreement with Wolfix's somewhat cynical World view (admittedly, such cynicism is often richly justified) he at least has an informed understanding of the dirty game of pro cycling. Unlike No Positive et al, who is merely a come lately, no nothing, fanboy.
Hint to Fanboy:-when you come back at me-as you will-do try to come up with something a bit more original than your usual dire, anally fixated line of insults.

Thanks. I apologize for the false accusation.

 

[No_Positives]

he/she/it/dog/*****

This is unnecessary and not what these forums are about. I have reported you to the administrator.