Stop NY's Anti-Bicycling Bill



On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:34:58 -0500, Sheldon Brown
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Citizens have a common-law _right_ to use the public thoroughfares to
>travel under their own power. This right has existed from time immemorial.
>When automobiles first appeared, it soon became clear that they were
>unusually dangerous, and so a special licensing/registration procedures
>were developed to deal with this particularly hazardous device.

Amen to that. What exactly is the benefit of this stupid law? I see
no public good from it whatsoever.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
 
On 17 Nov 2004 12:20:44 -0800, [email protected] (supabonbon)
wrote:

>Things are getting ridiculous here in NYC.
>
>Under Int. No. 497 those bicycling anywhere within the city limits
>(that includes visitors!) without their registration number tag would
>face stiff civil and criminal penalties including:
>
>- UP TO 15 DAYS IMPRISONMENT and
>- $100 - $300 criminal fine and
>- $100 - $300 civil fine and
>- a misdemeanor charge and
>- confiscation of one's bicycle.
>
>Why? To what purpose? I don't know.

My email to Council President Miller as well as my councilman and a
few others that I know:

I ask you to oppose Councilmember Provenzano's bill to register bikes.
As a regular bike commuter, from Flushing to Manhattan most work days,
I feel that this is a reaction to the Critical Mass rides and would
have a tremendous and negative impact on the vast majority of bike
riders who do not participate. I oppose this bill for the following
reasons:

1) We already have laws that provide penalties for dangerous riding.

2) It will set up a new bureaucracy that is simply not needed.

3) The law will be selectively enforced against whomever the police
decide to enforce it on.

4) Bikes no longer have fenders. Because I commute at night, I have
several lights on my bike as well as a horn. In addition, I attach a
fairly large pack containing various work related stuff as well as
bike tools. There is not an inch of room on my handlebars to attach
anything else. There is simply nowhere on my bike where I could put a
license plate that would not potentially end up in my spokes. I would
sue the city if that caused an accident. I will financially support a
lawsuit against the city to prevent this from occuring.

5) Does this mean that someone biking in from Westchester or Long
Island or New Jersey will need to register a bike in New York City? Is
there any logic here?


This proposal is using an elephant gun to shoot a flea. Ms. Provenzano
has already made us a laughing stock domestically and internationally.
Please do not allow this to become permanent.

I will not vote for anyone, for any office, who supports this bill.


Sincerely yours,


(me)
 
maxo <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:34:58 -0500, Sheldon Brown wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Should a cyclist, like many whom you see in big cities, who consistently
> rolls through stoplights at 20mph, never be ticketed? If you don't carry
> ID and your bike is unregistered, what's the cop to do? Jeez.

If you don't carry ID and your bike is unregistered it's confiscated.
NYC cops have been doing that for years.

>
> All this hemming and hawing sounds like the murmuring of the lunatic
> segment of the Critical Mass folks--whom I stopped riding with after I
> realized that they were no better than the narrow minded zealots in the
> SUVs they (and I) love to hate. Riding a bike does not magically set you
> free of the confines of the law.

Yes, because as a 9-5 working, taxpaying, political middle-road
sitting cyclist, I'm clearly a member of the "lunatic segment". I
_do_, in fact, ride Critical Mass because it's fun and communal. Are
some people into it to a degree that transcends bicycle issues? Sure.
Cyclists are idealists, some more strident about it than others, but
everybody is riding for their own set of reasons. I don't use the ride
as a platform for anarchy, and neither do 99% of the riders. But that
1% gets the attention, even of people like you who should know better.

> --max [carfree for 6 years] o
>
>
>
> ;)
 
In article <[email protected]>,
dgk <[email protected]> writes:

> 4) Bikes no longer have fenders. Because I commute at night, I have
> several lights on my bike as well as a horn. In addition, I attach a
> fairly large pack containing various work related stuff as well as
> bike tools. There is not an inch of room on my handlebars to attach
> anything else. There is simply nowhere on my bike where I could put a
> license plate that would not potentially end up in my spokes. I would
> sue the city if that caused an accident. I will financially support a
> lawsuit against the city to prevent this from occuring.

Actually, proof of registration would more likely be in the
form of a sticker with which to embellish your cleanly
gorgeous titanium frame's downtube. And the sticker
would probably have an ugly colour.

Good letter though, and kudos to you for speaking out.
My heart is with you.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
 
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:10:06 -0500, "Neal" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Many states already require everyone to carry a photo ID. Georgia has required
>this for several years. If you don't drive a car, a photo ID is available from
>the state.

Cite? Two quick Google points of reference, including the DMV, have
language that say how convenient it is to have either a license or DMV
photo ID. The word mandatory doesn't show up.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:17:35 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Who gets the ticket if you're caught on camera running a red light--the
>driver or the registree?

Pay attention. If you are on a camera there is no issue. Its only when
you are caught running a red light ON A BIKE that they are going to
check your registration.

I'm all for registering cameras.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:45:37 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Are we all headed for having Name/Social Security number tatooed on our
>foreheads?

And then there's only the approved, not-covering-you-forehead
haircuts.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
[email protected] (Tom Keats) writes:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> dgk <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > 4) Bikes no longer have fenders. Because I commute at night, I have
> > several lights on my bike as well as a horn. In addition, I attach a
> > fairly large pack containing various work related stuff as well as
> > bike tools. There is not an inch of room on my handlebars to attach
> > anything else. There is simply nowhere on my bike where I could put a
> > license plate that would not potentially end up in my spokes. I would
> > sue the city if that caused an accident. I will financially support a
> > lawsuit against the city to prevent this from occuring.
>
> Actually, proof of registration would more likely be in the
> form of a sticker with which to embellish your cleanly
> gorgeous titanium frame's downtube. And the sticker
> would probably have an ugly colour.
>
> Good letter though, and kudos to you for speaking out.
> My heart is with you.
>

A more sensible approach would be to exempt from the more onerous requirements
anyone in possession of a valid racing licence from an UCI affiliated
association/society


--
le Vent a Dos, Davey Crockett
Six Day Racing: http://sixday.741.com/2004-2005/2004-2005.html
Latest Road Racing news at http://sixday.741.com/news.html
RSS feed: http://sixday.741.com/rssfeed/newsfeed.rss
RSS feed: http://sixday.741.com/rssfeed/newsfeed.xml
 
RE/
>My wife and I came up with it one day while fishing and having too many
>beers
>and initially thought it would be a good way to stash some money that would
>be waterproof. It just became a handy way to roll up $100 bills 5 at a time
>and stash them in pipes. Frustrated inventor, that's all.

In the years after WW II, quite some survivors who made it to this country would
keep a couple week's food and plenty cash stashed in their trunks. I heard of
one guy in NYC who had around $30,000 cash in a box near the door - ready to
grab and run with at all times. I guess it's one's view of the world as
they've experienced it.

How about PVCS pipe instead of (assumed...) steel? That way, the container
would float if the pipe were the right diameter.

Also, how about something more widely negotiable and durable - like Krugerrands?


--
PeteCresswell
 
RE/
>My understanding is that police officer is entitled to ask you who you
>are, and where you live, and you have to answer truthfully.
>
>However, if the officer has no reason to believe you to be a liar, there
>is no obligation for you to document this information.
>
>In the case of a serious crime, of course, a police officer may arrest you.
>
>We don't have the Gestapo stopping random citizens to demand their
>papers in the U.S. ...yet.

I can't offer any citations, but my recollection is that I've seen several
instances on TV where somebody tested that assumption and wound up being
arrested for one reason or another - but basically because they could not show
any credable ID.
--
PeteCresswell
 
RE/
>> Then why bother registering the bike?
>
>Lots of reasons, like when somebody's reporting a crime or a reckless
>cyclist.
>
>Theft recovery would be the best reason.

Honolulu did this years and years ago.

Went back there in 2002, and it looked to me like they'd discontinued the
practice.
--
PeteCresswell
 
"Curtis L. Russell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:10:06 -0500, "Neal" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Many states already require everyone to carry a photo ID. Georgia has
>>required
>>this for several years. If you don't drive a car, a photo ID is available
>>from
>>the state.
>
> Cite? Two quick Google points of reference, including the DMV, have
> language that say how convenient it is to have either a license or DMV
> photo ID. The word mandatory doesn't show up.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...



A state policeman told me that a photo ID is required. He may have been wrong.
I'll look into it.

Neal
 
Tim McNamara wrote:

> Steven Bornfeld <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Is there an explicit right in the Constitution for any particular
>>mode of transportation?
>
>
> In the US Constitution? Insofar as there are federal laws regarding
> interstate travel and access to federal thoroughfares, yes.

OK, so federal laws guarantee access, but do not specify mode of
transportation. Thanks for kinda/sorta answering my question.


At the
> state level, all states also have laws regarding the establishment and
> right of access to public roadways. The law is explicit in all states
> that every person has equal rights of access to public roads. The
> only restricted mode of transportation is operation of a motor
> vehicle, as far as I have been able to find; therefore the operation
> of a motor vehicle is not a right but a privilege, while other modes
> of transportation retain the status of rights.
However, these rights
> can also be somewhat restricted, as in the creation of restricted
> access interstate roads where nonmotorized vehicles are not allowed-
> unless there is no feasible alternative route.

I do believe that pedestrians may be banned from walking in public
streets except at crosswalks, and I do believe that bicycles may be
banned from pedestrian walkways.
Listen guys, I'm on your side. But I wouldn't go to the mat on this
one on constitutional grounds.

Steve


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
 
Curtis L. Russell wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:17:35 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Who gets the ticket if you're caught on camera running a red light--the
>>driver or the registree?
>
>
> Pay attention. If you are on a camera there is no issue. Its only when
> you are caught running a red light ON A BIKE that they are going to
> check your registration.
>
> I'm all for registering cameras.

I should have been clearer. If you are in a MOTOR VEHICLE and you are
caught on camera running a red light, the registree gets the ticket--at
least in New York. It is a moving violation, but is not enforced as
such (to the best of my knowledge). AFAIK, in New York, it's much more
about raising money than it is about deterrence.
I think if you look at the proposed law in the same way, you might have
a better view of how this is being viewed.

Steve

>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
 
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:24:28 -0500, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
<[email protected]> wrote:

> If you are in a MOTOR VEHICLE and you are
>caught on camera running a red light, the registree gets the ticket--at
>least in New York.

As a controller/CFO in a non-profit that had a small fleet of vans and
cars, I used to get the photos of the drivers that ran red lights. It
was impressive enough that they could pull the license plate number,
even in low light. OTOH, that would be a big sucker to have on a bike
- a bike-sized license plate probably could not be read, even if you
kept it free and clear.

Was behind a cop yesterday that pulled out to leave me behind a dump
truck. This truck had what appeared to be hydraulic lines that curled
down and made everything illegible other than the last two numbers on
the plate. And the cop didn't feel obligated to do something. You
could probably hang any piece of tin off of any bike and not be pulled
over on the basis of the license plate.

You can't put the license plates on seats and keep them unobstructed
(starting with the backsides of 250 pound bike riders). You can't put
racks on all bikes (nor do we want to) to put the license out back and
visible. So this is not a law to be enforced in its own right, but one
to be enforced on another basis for an at-best related reason.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My understanding is that police officer is entitled to ask you who you
> are, and where you live, and you have to answer truthfully.
>
> However, if the officer has no reason to believe you to be a liar, there
> is no obligation for you to document this information.
>
> In the case of a serious crime, of course, a police officer may arrest
> you.
>
> We don't have the Gestapo stopping random citizens to demand their papers
> in the U.S. ...yet.

First off, I was not suggesting you would have to give your ID for no
reason, but only if you were stopped for breaking a law. With that, I think
your method of asking for name/address would only work in a perfect world,
and since people don't break laws in a perfect world, it would probably not
work. I think the fact that someone was being given a ticket would be
reason enough to believe they would lie about their name/address. This is
not to say that I would lie, but I would say many (and maybe most) people
would.

--
Scott Ehardt
http://www.scehardt.com
 
Curtis L. Russell wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:24:28 -0500, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>If you are in a MOTOR VEHICLE and you are
>>caught on camera running a red light, the registree gets the ticket--at
>>least in New York.
>
>
> As a controller/CFO in a non-profit that had a small fleet of vans and
> cars, I used to get the photos of the drivers that ran red lights. It
> was impressive enough that they could pull the license plate number,
> even in low light. OTOH, that would be a big sucker to have on a bike
> - a bike-sized license plate probably could not be read, even if you
> kept it free and clear.
>
> Was behind a cop yesterday that pulled out to leave me behind a dump
> truck. This truck had what appeared to be hydraulic lines that curled
> down and made everything illegible other than the last two numbers on
> the plate. And the cop didn't feel obligated to do something. You
> could probably hang any piece of tin off of any bike and not be pulled
> over on the basis of the license plate.
>
> You can't put the license plates on seats and keep them unobstructed
> (starting with the backsides of 250 pound bike riders). You can't put
> racks on all bikes (nor do we want to) to put the license out back and
> visible. So this is not a law to be enforced in its own right, but one
> to be enforced on another basis for an at-best related reason.


Sure.


Steve

> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
 
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:21:25 -0800, GaryG
<garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:

> "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:eek:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:14:38 -0800, GaryG
>> <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:eek:[email protected]...
>> >> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:37:40 -0500, Ronsonic <unknown> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:33:53 -0800, Bill Baka
>> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:57:34 -0500, Matt O'Toole
>> <[email protected]>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Bill Baka wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:14:30 GMT, Chris Phillipo
>> >> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>> Apparently terrorst bombers don't register their bikes and
>> >> therefore
>> >> >>>>> will be easy to spot.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> How about a bike stuffed with C4 rigged to go off when placed
>> in a
>> >> >>>> police car?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Funny, I had a sticker awhile back that said "this bike is a pipe
>> > bomb"
>> >> >>> -- which
>> >> >>> was the name of a band I saw several years ago, at Al's Bar in
>> LA.
>> >> I
>> >> >>> had it on
>> >> >>> my mountain bike for awhile, but took it off awhile ago -- just
>> to
>> >> be
>> >> >>> safe!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Matt O.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> I keep spare money, $100 bills, rolled up and about 5 each in a
> piece
>> > of
>> >> >> 1/2" pipe threaded with caps on both ends. Each of these is a $500
>> >> >> stash.
>> >> >> I don't even remember where I tossed some of them, but I do take a
>> >> few
>> >> >> tossed in my car on trips, just in case. If a cop ever pulled me
> over
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> demanded to see my trunk would they blow up my car?
>> >> >> This country is getting stranger by the day.
>> >> >
>> >> > You carry your money in pipes and you think it's the rest of the
>> >> country
>> >> > that's
>> >> > gone weird?!?!
>> >> >
>> >> > Ron
>> >> >
>> >> My wife and I came up with it one day while fishing and having too
>> many
>> >> beers
>> >> and initially thought it would be a good way to stash some money that
>> > would
>> >> be waterproof. It just became a handy way to roll up $100 bills 5 at
>> a
>> > time
>> >> and stash them in pipes. Frustrated inventor, that's all.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Bill (not always politically correct) Baka
>> >
>> > LOL - yeah, that does sound like one of those "hold my beer (or bong)
> and
>> > watch this" ideas.
>> >
>> > The fact that you actually followed through on it gives you extra "Odd
>> > Duck"
>> > points. Not sure what kind of crowd you hang out with, but that's
>> some
>> > seriously weird sh*t.
>> >
>> > GG
>> >
>> >
>> My crowd is non engineers who like to invent silly things. Not seriously
>> weird unless I start padding my matress with it. Besides, I know where I
>> put it in case of fire. I hate having to go to the bank and then get
>> charged for getting my own money.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bill (not always politically correct) Baka
>
> Hmmmm....you must hang with a very odd crowd.
>
> FWIW, I can think of many adjectives for a pipe bomb piggy bank, but
> "silly"
> is not one of them.
>
> GG
>
>
Odd crowd yes. All very high IQ. All Democrats. Always thinking of
something out of the norm to do. No smokers, drinkers, or drug users, just
bored.


--
Bill (not always politically correct) Baka
 
"Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:21:25 -0800, GaryG
> <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
>
> > "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:eek:[email protected]...
> >> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:14:38 -0800, GaryG
> >> <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > news:eek:[email protected]...
> >> >> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:37:40 -0500, Ronsonic <unknown> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:33:53 -0800, Bill Baka
> >> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:57:34 -0500, Matt O'Toole
> >> <[email protected]>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> Bill Baka wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:14:30 GMT, Chris Phillipo
> >> >> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>>> Apparently terrorst bombers don't register their bikes and
> >> >> therefore
> >> >> >>>>> will be easy to spot.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> How about a bike stuffed with C4 rigged to go off when placed
> >> in a
> >> >> >>>> police car?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Funny, I had a sticker awhile back that said "this bike is a
pipe
> >> > bomb"
> >> >> >>> -- which
> >> >> >>> was the name of a band I saw several years ago, at Al's Bar in
> >> LA.
> >> >> I
> >> >> >>> had it on
> >> >> >>> my mountain bike for awhile, but took it off awhile ago -- just
> >> to
> >> >> be
> >> >> >>> safe!
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Matt O.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> I keep spare money, $100 bills, rolled up and about 5 each in a
> > piece
> >> > of
> >> >> >> 1/2" pipe threaded with caps on both ends. Each of these is a
$500
> >> >> >> stash.
> >> >> >> I don't even remember where I tossed some of them, but I do take
a
> >> >> few
> >> >> >> tossed in my car on trips, just in case. If a cop ever pulled me
> > over
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> demanded to see my trunk would they blow up my car?
> >> >> >> This country is getting stranger by the day.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You carry your money in pipes and you think it's the rest of the
> >> >> country
> >> >> > that's
> >> >> > gone weird?!?!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Ron
> >> >> >
> >> >> My wife and I came up with it one day while fishing and having too
> >> many
> >> >> beers
> >> >> and initially thought it would be a good way to stash some money
that
> >> > would
> >> >> be waterproof. It just became a handy way to roll up $100 bills 5 at
> >> a
> >> > time
> >> >> and stash them in pipes. Frustrated inventor, that's all.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Bill (not always politically correct) Baka
> >> >
> >> > LOL - yeah, that does sound like one of those "hold my beer (or bong)
> > and
> >> > watch this" ideas.
> >> >
> >> > The fact that you actually followed through on it gives you extra
"Odd
> >> > Duck"
> >> > points. Not sure what kind of crowd you hang out with, but that's
> >> some
> >> > seriously weird sh*t.
> >> >
> >> > GG
> >> >
> >> >
> >> My crowd is non engineers who like to invent silly things. Not
seriously
> >> weird unless I start padding my matress with it. Besides, I know where
I
> >> put it in case of fire. I hate having to go to the bank and then get
> >> charged for getting my own money.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bill (not always politically correct) Baka
> >
> > Hmmmm....you must hang with a very odd crowd.
> >
> > FWIW, I can think of many adjectives for a pipe bomb piggy bank, but
> > "silly"
> > is not one of them.
> >
> > GG
> >
> >
> Odd crowd yes. All very high IQ. All Democrats. Always thinking of
> something out of the norm to do. No smokers, drinkers, or drug users, just
> bored.

That's a shame...life's too rich (and too short) to waste time being bored.

GG

>
> --
> Bill (not always politically correct) Baka
 
Scott Ehardt wrote:

I wrote:

>>My understanding is that police officer is entitled to ask you who you
>>are, and where you live, and you have to answer truthfully.
>>
>>However, if the officer has no reason to believe you to be a liar, there
>>is no obligation for you to document this information.
>>
>>In the case of a serious crime, of course, a police officer may arrest
>>you.
>>
>>We don't have the Gestapo stopping random citizens to demand their papers
>>in the U.S. ...yet.
>
Scott Ehardt wrote:
>
> First off, I was not suggesting you would have to give your ID for no
> reason, but only if you were stopped for breaking a law. With that, I think
> your method of asking for name/address would only work in a perfect world,
> and since people don't break laws in a perfect world, it would probably not
> work. I think the fact that someone was being given a ticket would be
> reason enough to believe they would lie about their name/address. This is
> not to say that I would lie, but I would say many (and maybe most) people
> would.

I guess you're more cynical than I am. My experience is that most
people are honest.

Sheldon "Yes, That's My Real Name" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| It is better to be victimized occasionally, |
| than to go through life filled with suspicion. |
| --Elbert Hubbard |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
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