Stop NY's Anti-Bicycling Bill



On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:43:12 -0800, GaryG
<garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:

>> >> >> >> This country is getting stranger by the day.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You carry your money in pipes and you think it's the rest of the
>> >> >> country
>> >> >> > that's
>> >> >> > gone weird?!?!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Ron
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > The fact that you actually followed through on it gives you extra
> "Odd
>> >> > Duck"
>> >> > points. Not sure what kind of crowd you hang out with, but that's
>> >> some
>> >> > seriously weird sh*t.
>> >> >
>> >> > GG
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> My crowd is non engineers who like to invent silly things.
>> > Hmmmm....you must hang with a very odd crowd.
>> >
>> > FWIW, I can think of many adjectives for a pipe bomb piggy bank, but
>> > "silly"
>> > is not one of them.
>> >
>> > GG

I found out that it is a good way to keep track of my plumbing stuff.
The fact that people assume that a short piece of pipe with 2 end caps
MUST be a bomb does not say to much positive about a country full of
paranoids.
>> >
>> >
>> Odd crowd yes. All very high IQ. All Democrats. Always thinking of
>> something out of the norm to do. No smokers, drinkers, or drug users,
>> just
>> bored.
>
> That's a shame...life's too rich (and too short) to waste time being
> bored.
>
> GG

Mostly we build electronic stuff, lately it is R/C airplanes.
>
>>
Bill (not always politically correct) Baka
 
"Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:14:38 -0800, GaryG
> <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
>
> > "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:eek:[email protected]...
> >> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:37:40 -0500, Ronsonic <unknown>
wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:33:53 -0800, Bill Baka
> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:57:34 -0500, Matt O'Toole
<[email protected]>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Bill Baka wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:14:30 GMT, Chris Phillipo
> >> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>> Apparently terrorst bombers don't register their bikes
and
> >> therefore
> >> >>>>> will be easy to spot.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> How about a bike stuffed with C4 rigged to go off when
placed in a
> >> >>>> police car?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Funny, I had a sticker awhile back that said "this bike
is a pipe
> > bomb"
> >> >>> -- which
> >> >>> was the name of a band I saw several years ago, at Al's
Bar in LA.
> >> I
> >> >>> had it on
> >> >>> my mountain bike for awhile, but took it off awhile
ago -- just to
> >> be
> >> >>> safe!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Matt O.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >> I keep spare money, $100 bills, rolled up and about 5
each in a piece
> > of
> >> >> 1/2" pipe threaded with caps on both ends. Each of these
is a $500
> >> >> stash.
> >> >> I don't even remember where I tossed some of them, but I
do take a
> >> few
> >> >> tossed in my car on trips, just in case. If a cop ever
pulled me over
> >> >> and
> >> >> demanded to see my trunk would they blow up my car?
> >> >> This country is getting stranger by the day.
> >> >
> >> > You carry your money in pipes and you think it's the rest
of the
> >> country
> >> > that's
> >> > gone weird?!?!
> >> >
> >> > Ron
> >> >
> >> My wife and I came up with it one day while fishing and
having too many
> >> beers
> >> and initially thought it would be a good way to stash some
money that
> > would
> >> be waterproof. It just became a handy way to roll up $100
bills 5 at a
> > time
> >> and stash them in pipes. Frustrated inventor, that's all.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bill (not always politically correct) Baka
> >
> > LOL - yeah, that does sound like one of those "hold my beer
(or bong) and
> > watch this" ideas.
> >
> > The fact that you actually followed through on it gives you
extra "Odd
> > Duck"
> > points. Not sure what kind of crowd you hang out with, but
that's some
> > seriously weird sh*t.
> >
> > GG
> >
> >
> My crowd is non engineers who like to invent silly things. Not
seriously
> weird unless I start padding my matress with it. Besides, I
know where I
> put it in case of fire. I hate having to go to the bank and
then get
> charged for getting my own money.

Rather than going to the hardware store and getting charged for
threaded pipe and end caps. -- Jay "Free Checking" Beattie.
 
Mark Hickey <[email protected]> writes:

> Ronsonic <> wrote:
>
>>Ride-A-Lot <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>>>This isn't going to work though. You have to make it difficult for
>>>here. Organize a thousand riders to block her driveway a few
>>>times.
>>
>>That's the ticket. Antagonizing people always wins 'em over to your
>>cause. Especially if you use the thing they're proposing to
>>regulate.
>>
>>Smart.
>
> Let's look at the math on this new legislation... a bunch of
> cyclists do their best to disrupt a large group of legislators in
> NYC. A few months later, we have a new law on the books making it
> hard on all cyclists in NYC.
>
> Not to hard to figure out. Be careful when you demand
> "attention"... you just might get it.

Yes, God forbid that people actually exercise thie rfreedom of speech
and right to assembly. The Bill of Rights is more of a guideline,
really, a set of recommendations that can be set aside at will if they
become inconvenient.
 
"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Scott Ehardt wrote:
>>
>> First off, I was not suggesting you would have to give your ID for no
>> reason, but only if you were stopped for breaking a law. With that, I
>> think your method of asking for name/address would only work in a perfect
>> world, and since people don't break laws in a perfect world, it would
>> probably not work. I think the fact that someone was being given a
>> ticket would be reason enough to believe they would lie about their
>> name/address. This is not to say that I would lie, but I would say many
>> (and maybe most) people would.
>
> I guess you're more cynical than I am. My experience is that most people
> are honest.
>

I certainly hope you are right in assuming that most people are honest. I
somewhat misstated my earlier point and thus I should add that in the
instance of trying to deal with law violators, especially repeat violators
(where you might just get a warning the first time), you would be likely to
bring out the worst people. A few people could break riding laws every day,
get caught on occasion, and give false information. This might give a bad
name to all the cyclists in the area.

I can give an example of the honor system of giving your name failing I have
seen first hand. In my fairly large high school the students were required
to wear ID badges. If you were caught in the hall without your badge you
would be cited for it. If this happened often enough you would get
detention. It didn't take long for a number of students to figure out that
they could fill out the form with someone else's name in order to avoid
punishment.

--
Scott Ehardt
http://www.scehardt.com
 
Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Ronsonic <> wrote:
>
> >Ride-A-Lot <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> >>This isn't going to work though. You have to make it difficult for
> >>here. Organize a thousand riders to block her driveway a few times.
> >
> >That's the ticket. Antagonizing people always wins 'em over to your cause.
> >Especially if you use the thing they're proposing to regulate.
> >
> >Smart.
>
> Let's look at the math on this new legislation... a bunch of cyclists
> do their best to disrupt a large group of legislators in NYC. A few
> months later, we have a new law on the books making it hard on all
> cyclists in NYC.
>
> Not to hard to figure out. Be careful
> when you demand "attention"...
> you just might get it.

It's unfortunate that even in cycling politics you're an anti-democratic tool.

JT
 
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS <[email protected]> writes:

> Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>> Steven Bornfeld <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>>Is there an explicit right in the Constitution for any particular
>>>mode of transportation?
>>
>> In the US Constitution? Insofar as there are federal laws
>> regarding interstate travel and access to federal thoroughfares,
>> yes.
>
> OK, so federal laws guarantee access, but do not specify mode of
> transportation. Thanks for kinda/sorta answering my question.

Best I could do, not being a lawyer.

>> At the state level, all states also have laws regarding the
>> establishment and right of access to public roadways. The law is
>> explicit in all states that every person has equal rights of access
>> to public roads. The only restricted mode of transportation is
>> operation of a motor vehicle, as far as I have been able to find;
>> therefore the operation of a motor vehicle is not a right but a
>> privilege, while other modes of transportation retain the status of
>> rights. However, these rights can also be somewhat restricted, as
>> in the creation of restricted access interstate roads where
>> nonmotorized vehicles are not allowed- unless there is no feasible
>> alternative route.
>
> I do believe that pedestrians may be banned from walking in public
> streets except at crosswalks, and I do believe that bicycles may be
> banned from pedestrian walkways. Listen guys, I'm on your side.
> But I wouldn't go to the mat on this one on constitutional grounds.

Legal grounds rather that specifically Constitutional grounds. The
Constitution is a tiny fraction of applicable laws.
 
"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Scott Ehardt wrote:
>
> I wrote:
>
> >>My understanding is that police officer is entitled to ask you who you
> >>are, and where you live, and you have to answer truthfully.
> >>
> >>However, if the officer has no reason to believe you to be a liar, there
> >>is no obligation for you to document this information.
> >>
> >>In the case of a serious crime, of course, a police officer may arrest
> >>you.
> >>
> >>We don't have the Gestapo stopping random citizens to demand their
papers
> >>in the U.S. ...yet.
> >
> Scott Ehardt wrote:
> >
> > First off, I was not suggesting you would have to give your ID for no
> > reason, but only if you were stopped for breaking a law. With that, I
think
> > your method of asking for name/address would only work in a perfect
world,
> > and since people don't break laws in a perfect world, it would probably
not
> > work. I think the fact that someone was being given a ticket would be
> > reason enough to believe they would lie about their name/address. This
is
> > not to say that I would lie, but I would say many (and maybe most)
people
> > would.
>
> I guess you're more cynical than I am. My experience is that most
> people are honest.

I too like to assume the best in people I meet (until proven otherwise).
But, law enforcement is a different matter, with plenty of reasons for
people to lie.

Talk to a cop sometime...they generally assume that everyone lies, because
they see it so often. I don't know how they manage to put up with that
amount of negativity. I couldn't do it without going a bit nuts.

GG

> Sheldon "Yes, That's My Real Name" Brown
> +-------------------------------------------------------+
> | It is better to be victimized occasionally, |
> | than to go through life filled with suspicion. |
> | --Elbert Hubbard |
> +-------------------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
>
 
Tim McNamara wrote:

>
> Legal grounds rather that specifically Constitutional grounds. The
> Constitution is a tiny fraction of applicable laws.

Of course. But to read this thread, you'd think it's just a matter of
time before this comes before the Supreme Court.

Steve


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
 
RE/
>I found out that it is a good way to keep track of my plumbing stuff.
>The fact that people assume that a short piece of pipe with 2 end caps
>MUST be a bomb does not say to much positive about a country full of
>paranoids.

It's *the* classic pressure bomb configuration.
--
PeteCresswell
 
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:59:16 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote:

>RE/
>>My understanding is that police officer is entitled to ask you who you
>>are, and where you live, and you have to answer truthfully.
>>
>>However, if the officer has no reason to believe you to be a liar, there
>>is no obligation for you to document this information.
>>
>>In the case of a serious crime, of course, a police officer may arrest you.
>>
>>We don't have the Gestapo stopping random citizens to demand their
>>papers in the U.S. ...yet.
>
>I can't offer any citations, but my recollection is that I've seen several
>instances on TV where somebody tested that assumption and wound up being
>arrested for one reason or another - but basically because they could not show
>any credable ID.

Police and other parts of government have been trying to make it legal
to arrest people for not having ID, and until recently these efforts
have been successfully challenged in courts as unconstitutional.

Recently, with the backwards shift in American politics, the right to
not identify oneself is threatened. Most recently with the guy Hibbel
losing his case.

JT

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On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:41:40 GMT, "Scott Ehardt"
<SCEhardt--((REM@VE))--SCEhardt.com> wrote:

> I think the fact that someone was being given a ticket would be
>reason enough to believe they would lie about their name/address.

You are a either an idiot or a jackass or a troll.

JT



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On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:09:07 -0500, "Neal" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>A state policeman told me that a photo ID is required.
>He may have been wrong.
>I'll look into it.

I've had policemen say things to me about the law that were flat out
wrong.

I had one policement explicitly lie to me -- that is I later learned
that there is no way what he coudl not have known what he said was
wrong (this was not about a matter of law, but about a physical fact)

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:41:40 GMT, "Scott Ehardt"
> <SCEhardt--((REM@VE))--SCEhardt.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I think the fact that someone was being given a ticket would be
>>reason enough to believe they would lie about their name/address.
>
>
> You are a either an idiot or a jackass or a troll.
>

I interject just to point out that your choices are not mutually exclusive.

--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply
 
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:41:40 GMT, "Scott Ehardt"
> <SCEhardt--((REM@VE))--SCEhardt.com> wrote:
>
>> I think the fact that someone was being given a ticket would be
>>reason enough to believe they would lie about their name/address.
>
> You are a either an idiot or a jackass or a troll.
>
> JT


Hrm well I'll claim not to be an idiot or troll, so that leaves jackass. I
was simply making a guess based on personal experience; who knows what would
really happen, right?

--
Scott Ehardt
http://www.scehardt.com
 
[email protected] (John Forrest Tomlinson) wrote:

>Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote

>> Let's look at the math on this new legislation... a bunch of cyclists
>> do their best to disrupt a large group of legislators in NYC. A few
>> months later, we have a new law on the books making it hard on all
>> cyclists in NYC.
>>
>> Not to hard to figure out. Be careful
>> when you demand "attention"...
>> you just might get it.
>
>It's unfortunate that even in cycling politics you're an anti-democratic tool.

And you're being uncivil, not to mention reading something into my
statements that I did NOT write.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
 
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:41:40 GMT, "Scott Ehardt"
><SCEhardt--((REM@VE))--SCEhardt.com> wrote:
>
>> I think the fact that someone was being given a ticket would be
>>reason enough to believe they would lie about their name/address.
>
>You are a either an idiot or a jackass or a troll.
>
>JT

Quick, someone call an exorcist... JT's channeling Ian St. John...

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
 
> What a screwed up state!
>
> Maybe it's time to move to a real MTB-ing state like F L O R I D A

Shaddup.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
 
> How about PVCS pipe instead of (assumed...) steel? That way,
> the container would float if the pipe were the right diameter.
>
> Also, how about something more widely negotiable and durable
> - like Krugerrands?

Krugerrands would have the additional advantage of increasing in value
over time, unlike the verflucht Dollar:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20041119/cartoon20041119.gif

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)
 
[email protected] (supabonbon) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Things are getting ridiculous here in NYC.
>
> Under Int. No. 497 those bicycling anywhere within the city limits
> (that includes visitors!) without their registration number tag would
> face stiff civil and criminal penalties including:
>
> - UP TO 15 DAYS IMPRISONMENT and
> - $100 - $300 criminal fine and
> - $100 - $300 civil fine and
> - a misdemeanor charge and
> - confiscation of one's bicycle.
>
> Why? To what purpose? I don't know.
>
> Please visit http://www.transalt.org/press/askta/041116bikebill.html
> and send an email to Councilmember Madeline Provenzano to cool it. (A
> little history: a bike lane was striped on Ms. Provenzano's street,
> which she tried to have moved/removed. For some reason, she just
> doesn't like our kind.)
>
> If you want to call her office, the number is 212-788-7375.
>
> Thank you!
>
> /s
>

this is a easy one: nuke the building (metaphorically speaking of course).
just notify them that after some date, 1 December for instance, no
messenger will pickup/deliver any packages to the building. this will ****
off the other occupants at her & why facilitate the instrument of your own
demise?

and on some of the other points, around here, I don't think "street" has a
legal meaning, it's "highway", the strip of land used by the public, and
"roadway", that potion of the highway for use by motor vehicles. bikes
here can use the highway.
 
Gee Y`all in NY have Hillary and this Provanzo nut. Here in the sunny
SOUTH , Georgia . The state puts up nice signs , SHARE THE ROAD, with a
bike rider on it. I also think from what I`ve
seen of N.Y. city traffic it would be damn near impossible to catch a
good bicycle rider. I doubt any NY cop could ever corner Nelson Vails,
remember he used his NY street cycling skills to medal in the LA
Olympics. If I ever cycle in NY again I certainly don`t plan on getting
a registration for a day. I`m not new to Cycling as I will be 60 next
august , I advocate following traffic laws and riding in a streight line
I must do ok in traffic as I have never been hit by a car.
The good side to registering a bike is a record of your bike in case of
theft. This law could help recover stolen bikes. Some cities around the
USA do this free of charge. Obviously her la as written is flawed. Help
change it and use to your advantage.
Richard

@ @

~~~
 
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