Stop Turning Vitamins Into Expensive Urine!



ctrainey said:
You Only Go Around Once,Make It A Healthy One!
www.charliesvitamins.com

I'm worried; I've read about your product, and it seems to come in a tablet form. Apparently when Lance Armstrong takes his vitamin supplements they come in a needle. Would it be possible to mash these tablets up, mix them with saline, and inject them??? What dosage should I use if I do this? Would these be an appropriate chaser for my HGH and Eprex?? I wanna be like Lance...
 
I'd like to know how a "whole vitamin" can be any different chemically to a "synthetic vitamin".
 
As a chemist, I'd like to know as well.

If I put your vitamins through an NMR and a synthetic through an NMR how will it tell the difference?

Personally I smell SPAM
 
ctrainey said:
You Only Go Around Once,Make It A Healthy One!
www.charliesvitamins.com

If this is SPAM... how about a little competition... Head over to Dr.Squat.com. Dr. Squat was a world record holder who competed in weight lifting comps all over the world. He now has his own line of vitamins and many free downloads on the proper ways to train.
 
Duckwah said:
As a chemist, I'd like to know as well.

If I put your vitamins through an NMR and a synthetic through an NMR how will it tell the difference?

Personally I smell SPAM
Good comeback from the experts on this one.
 
How many people here have ever been diagnosed as having a vitamin deficiency?

How many know someone who has been diagnosed with a vitamin deficiency?
 
Beastt said:
How many people here have ever been diagnosed as having a vitamin deficiency?

How many know someone who has been diagnosed with a vitamin deficiency?
Are you saying that more often than not, its something people diagnose themselves? :eek:
 
steve said:
Are you saying that more often than not, its something people diagnose themselves? :eek:

Not at all. I'm trying to point out that the vitamin issue is very much like everyone's rush to make sure they get enough protein.

Find someone who actually has a vitamin or protein deficiency, especially in a developed country like the U.S. It's just incredibly rare yet everyone is so sucked in by advertizing that they happily toss their money away.
 
Beastt said:
Not at all. I'm trying to point out that the vitamin issue is very much like everyone's rush to make sure they get enough protein.

Find someone who actually has a vitamin or protein deficiency, especially in a developed country like the U.S. It's just incredibly rare yet everyone is so sucked in by advertizing that they happily toss their money away.

How do you know that you don't have a deficiency? I do know that for myself, I've noticed that I feel better when I use supplements and although I have not measured my performance scientifically, I do feel my performance has benefited from using supplementation.
 
txbuckeye said:
How do you know that you don't have a deficiency? I do know that for myself, I've noticed that I feel better when I use supplements and although I have not measured my performance scientifically, I do feel my performance has benefited from using supplementation.
Placebo effect...! For vitamin supplementation to work you'd have to have a vitamin deficiency, it's so unlikely that you'd have one in most developed countries that you're experiencing a placebo effect!

ric
 
ricstern said:
Placebo effect...! For vitamin supplementation to work you'd have to have a vitamin deficiency, it's so unlikely that you'd have one in most developed countries that you're experiencing a placebo effect!

ric


So are you basically telling us that with a good balanced diet, Vitamins offer no added benefit?

Personally, I have used vitamins extensively in the past but now I'd rather turn good broccoli into cheap urine based on feeling no difference with vitamins.
 
jitteringjr said:
So are you basically telling us that with a good balanced diet, Vitamins offer no added benefit?

Personally, I have used vitamins extensively in the past but now I'd rather turn good broccoli into cheap urine based on feeling no difference with vitamins.

there's no evidence that excess vitamins offer any benefit. in some cases (fat soluble) taking excess vitamins can be dangerous.

if you don't have any or much fruit and veg in your diet then a multi vit and mineral may be used as 'insurance'.

broccoli is great... love it raw

ric
 
ricstern said:
there's no evidence that excess vitamins offer any benefit. in some cases (fat soluble) taking excess vitamins can be dangerous.

if you don't have any or much fruit and veg in your diet then a multi vit and mineral may be used as 'insurance'.

broccoli is great... love it raw

ric

Let's be honest. How many of us can say we eat a balanced healthy diet in this country. In addition I'm under the impression that our soil is not as nutrient rich as in years gone by. The result is our food is not as nutrient rich as it once was. I would be interested in reading a study on the nutrient properties of our food today vs 20-50 years ago.
 
txbuckeye said:
Let's be honest. How many of us can say we eat a balanced healthy diet in this country. In addition I'm under the impression that our soil is not as nutrient rich as in years gone by. The result is our food is not as nutrient rich as it once was. I would be interested in reading a study on the nutrient properties of our food today vs 20-50 years ago.
who says we're in the same country...!? of course if you eat ****, then your performance will suffer. However, even if you do eat ****, you're a) eating enough with marginal vitamins in, and/or b) eating enough fortified vitamin foods, because lets face it in any western country there's no one with a vitamin deficiency or at least it would be a very small % of the population and most likely someone who doesn't race or train. (there's may be a tiny element who do, such as athletes with an eating disorder)

ric
 
ricstern said:
who says we're in the same country...!? of course if you eat ****, then your performance will suffer. However, even if you do eat ****, you're a) eating enough with marginal vitamins in, and/or b) eating enough fortified vitamin foods, because lets face it in any western country there's no one with a vitamin deficiency or at least it would be a very small % of the population and most likely someone who doesn't race or train. (there's may be a tiny element who do, such as athletes with an eating disorder)

ric

You're right Ric, we aren't in the same country. Cultures have a huge impact on nutrition. In America our culture tends to favor fast food, carbonated beverages and candies. One has to go to extra effort to eat healthy in this country. Depending on his/her lifestyle, work situation, stress, and responsibilities that could mean little effort to a monumental undertaking. Some of a persons everyday diet may even inhibit vitamin/nutrient absorbtion (caffeine,alcohol ??). In my opinion(not claiming to be an expert), in general, in this country, the majority of the people do not get the nutrition they should get from their food.
 
ricstern said:
who says we're in the same country...!? of course if you eat ****, then your performance will suffer. However, even if you do eat ****, you're a) eating enough with marginal vitamins in, and/or b) eating enough fortified vitamin foods, because lets face it in any western country there's no one with a vitamin deficiency or at least it would be a very small % of the population and most likely someone who doesn't race or train. (there's may be a tiny element who do, such as athletes with an eating disorder)

ric
Let's be logical. The idea that in order to be healthy we have to eat three square, balanced, vitamin-fortified meals everyday is pure hogwash. Take a look at the way other animals eat. Do they get a good variety of different kinds of food everyday or do they eat what happens to be available at the moment? Certainly animals in the wild are more likely to face deficiencies but most do quite well be following the seasonal availability of different foods. Most are in far better physical shape than we are despite the fact that they suffer from parasites and don't have medicine available when they do become ill.

Certainly most of us also eat a lot of pure garbage but the idea that this leads to vitamin deficiencies is, in most cases, nothing more than a good marketing strategy for the vitamin producers. What it leads to is an excess of things we shouldn't have in our bodies rather than a deficiency of the basic nutrients we need. Assuming most of us involved in this discussion are in America or equally developed countries, take a look around. Do you see people with bloated stomachs caused from malnutrition or do you see people carrying about 50 cheeseburgers wrapped around their waist, hips and thighs? Do you see people with deficiency-induced hair loss or do you see diabetes, heart attack and stroke as the major problems? Heart attack, stroke and in many cases, diabetes are diseases of excess, not of deficiency.

Try eliminating a little saturated fat, cholesterol and in many cases, excess protein from your diet and you'll benefit far more than from taking the urine-fortifying vitamins that people have become so feverish to ingest.

Seems to me that ricstern has done some intense homework on the topic.

Txbuckeye makes a good point about the nutrient deficient soil in this country, The U.S., I assume), but that's largely the effect of the increased pressures on agriculture to continue to produce the fat and cholesterol rich foods most developed countries demand. If you look into the current health issues, you quickly see that excess is still the current problem while everyone still focuses on deficiency.

Anyone have a case of beriberi, pellagra or scurvy? Know of anyone suffering from those diseases? How about high blood pressure, stroke, heart attack, osteoporosis or diabetes?
 
Beastt said:
Let's be logical. The idea that in order to be healthy we have to eat three square, balanced, vitamin-fortified meals everyday is pure hogwash. Take a look at the way other animals eat. Do they get a good variety of different kinds of food everyday or do they eat what happens to be available at the moment? Certainly animals in the wild are more likely to face deficiencies but most do quite well be following the seasonal availability of different foods. Most are in far better physical shape than we are despite the fact that they suffer from parasites and don't have medicine available when they do become ill.

Certainly most of us also eat a lot of pure garbage but the idea that this leads to vitamin deficiencies is, in most cases, nothing more than a good marketing strategy for the vitamin producers. What it leads to is an excess of things we shouldn't have in our bodies rather than a deficiency of the basic nutrients we need. Assuming most of us involved in this discussion are in America or equally developed countries, take a look around. Do you see people with bloated stomachs caused from malnutrition or do you see people carrying about 50 cheeseburgers wrapped around their waist, hips and thighs? Do you see people with deficiency-induced hair loss or do you see diabetes, heart attack and stroke as the major problems? Heart attack, stroke and in many cases, diabetes are diseases of excess, not of deficiency.

Try eliminating a little saturated fat, cholesterol and in many cases, excess protein from your diet and you'll benefit far more than from taking the urine-fortifying vitamins that people have become so feverish to ingest.

Seems to me that ricstern has done some intense homework on the topic.

Txbuckeye makes a good point about the nutrient deficient soil in this country, The U.S., I assume), but that's largely the effect of the increased pressures on agriculture to continue to produce the fat and cholesterol rich foods most developed countries demand. If you look into the current health issues, you quickly see that excess is still the current problem while everyone still focuses on deficiency.

Anyone have a case of beriberi, pellagra or scurvy? Know of anyone suffering from those diseases? How about high blood pressure, stroke, heart attack, osteoporosis or diabetes?

I think what it comes down to is if you eat a perfect diet, you don't need vitamins. Only you know if you do or don't. Realistically assessing my diet, I don't eat perfectly all the time. I agree, Beastt, the public in the US doesn't starve. That's obvious. I think that's different from nutrition though.Just because someone overeats doesn't mean they can assume they get the nutrition they need to be healthy. Excess is the major problem here in the US. A balance has to be maintained. The real issue here is, do you eat the wrong foods and do you overeat? If you answer yes to either question you might need to supplement and/or adjust the diet accordingly. Only the individual can make that decision after taking a hard look at their own diet.It's a struggle we all deal with.
 
txbuckeye said:
I think what it comes down to is if you eat a perfect diet, you don't need vitamins. Only you know if you do or don't. Realistically assessing my diet, I don't eat perfectly all the time. I agree, Beastt, the public in the US doesn't starve. That's obvious. I think that's different from nutrition though.Just because someone overeats doesn't mean they can assume they get the nutrition they need to be healthy. Excess is the major problem here in the US. A balance has to be maintained. The real issue here is, do you eat the wrong foods and do you overeat? If you answer yes to either question you might need to supplement and/or adjust the diet accordingly. Only the individual can make that decision after taking a hard look at their own diet.It's a struggle we all deal with.

I think we agree on the basic premise. But the idea that we have to eat a "perfect" diet in order to obtain the vitamins necessary for optimum health is a point where we differ. You can eat a diet that is far from "perfect", (whatever that may mean to the individual) and still get all the vitamins and basic nutrients necessary. I'm also of a different mind when it comes to over-eating. Certainly this can and does lead to some health problems but vitamin deficiency isn't among them. Eating more than you should means you're more likely to suffer from obesity, high blood pressure and a number of connected disorders but if the foods you're consuming contain the necessary vitamins, you'll only be getting more of those than you need. In the case of water soluble vitamins, your urine will carry the excess out of the body. Aside from huge portions of liver, I'm not sure of a way that people can ingest dangerous levels of fat soluble vitamins from their foods. In most cases of disorders caused by overdose of such vitamins, the source is the ever popular vitamin suppliment.

Vitamin suppliments are like the calcium craze. Everyone is adding calcium to their products to attract buyers who are sure they're not getting enough calcium. The evidence of the calcium deficient diet is the epidemic level of osteoporosis. But despite the fact that people in countries like America consume more calcium than their bodies can absorb, osteoporosis continues on the rise. The problem isn't a lack of calcium, though even some doctors will still recommend increased calcium intake. Studies have repeatedly shown that those consuming a high-protein diet will suffer a negative calcium balance whether consuming no supplimental calcium, 150 mg of supplimental calcium, 500 mg of supplimental calcium or 1500 mg of supplimental calcium per day. Those on a relatively low protein diet showed a positive calcium balance at every level of supplimental calcium including the 0 mg per day category.

The major difference between calcium alone and vitamins in general is that we do have a common disorder which appears to be linked to a calcium deficiency whereas vitamin deficiencies in general are all but unheard of in developed nations. The trick with calcium is to understand that the amount of calcium ingested, above a reasonal minimum isn't the key. The key is to moderate the ingestion of those nutrients which cause the body to lose calcium from the skeletal structure, such as excess protein. As long as people continue to over-consume proteins, osteoporosis will claim more victims no matter how much calcium they consume.

Most vitamin suppliments won't hurt you if taken as directed on the container but very few are likely to provide any benefit. If you watch the breakthroughs in scientific nutrition and the way vitamin producers tag along on their findings, the pattern begins to emerge. Everytime a particular nutrient is found to have any possible connection to a disorder, whether it be eyesight, heart disease, cancer or even baldness, the vitamin companies are all quick to add that nutrient to their products and the public at large beats a path to the vitamin isle in fear that failure to take the vitamins will lead them to an unending plague of diseases and disorders. And all the while, heart disease and other disease of excess are responsible for the suffering and early death of the vast majority of the population. It's not what you don't ingest that is causing the problems. It's what you do ingest.
 

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