ctrainey said:You Only Go Around Once,Make It A Healthy One!
www.charliesvitamins.com
ctrainey said:You Only Go Around Once,Make It A Healthy One!
www.charliesvitamins.com
Good comeback from the experts on this one.Duckwah said:As a chemist, I'd like to know as well.
If I put your vitamins through an NMR and a synthetic through an NMR how will it tell the difference?
Personally I smell SPAM
Are you saying that more often than not, its something people diagnose themselves?Beastt said:How many people here have ever been diagnosed as having a vitamin deficiency?
How many know someone who has been diagnosed with a vitamin deficiency?
steve said:Are you saying that more often than not, its something people diagnose themselves?
Beastt said:Not at all. I'm trying to point out that the vitamin issue is very much like everyone's rush to make sure they get enough protein.
Find someone who actually has a vitamin or protein deficiency, especially in a developed country like the U.S. It's just incredibly rare yet everyone is so sucked in by advertizing that they happily toss their money away.
Placebo effect...! For vitamin supplementation to work you'd have to have a vitamin deficiency, it's so unlikely that you'd have one in most developed countries that you're experiencing a placebo effect!txbuckeye said:How do you know that you don't have a deficiency? I do know that for myself, I've noticed that I feel better when I use supplements and although I have not measured my performance scientifically, I do feel my performance has benefited from using supplementation.
ricstern said:Placebo effect...! For vitamin supplementation to work you'd have to have a vitamin deficiency, it's so unlikely that you'd have one in most developed countries that you're experiencing a placebo effect!
ric
jitteringjr said:So are you basically telling us that with a good balanced diet, Vitamins offer no added benefit?
Personally, I have used vitamins extensively in the past but now I'd rather turn good broccoli into cheap urine based on feeling no difference with vitamins.
ricstern said:there's no evidence that excess vitamins offer any benefit. in some cases (fat soluble) taking excess vitamins can be dangerous.
if you don't have any or much fruit and veg in your diet then a multi vit and mineral may be used as 'insurance'.
broccoli is great... love it raw
ric
who says we're in the same country...!? of course if you eat ****, then your performance will suffer. However, even if you do eat ****, you're a) eating enough with marginal vitamins in, and/or b) eating enough fortified vitamin foods, because lets face it in any western country there's no one with a vitamin deficiency or at least it would be a very small % of the population and most likely someone who doesn't race or train. (there's may be a tiny element who do, such as athletes with an eating disorder)txbuckeye said:Let's be honest. How many of us can say we eat a balanced healthy diet in this country. In addition I'm under the impression that our soil is not as nutrient rich as in years gone by. The result is our food is not as nutrient rich as it once was. I would be interested in reading a study on the nutrient properties of our food today vs 20-50 years ago.
ricstern said:who says we're in the same country...!? of course if you eat ****, then your performance will suffer. However, even if you do eat ****, you're a) eating enough with marginal vitamins in, and/or b) eating enough fortified vitamin foods, because lets face it in any western country there's no one with a vitamin deficiency or at least it would be a very small % of the population and most likely someone who doesn't race or train. (there's may be a tiny element who do, such as athletes with an eating disorder)
ric
Duckwah said:As a chemist, I'd like to know as well.
If I put your vitamins through an NMR and a synthetic through an NMR how will it tell the difference?
Personally I smell SPAM
Let's be logical. The idea that in order to be healthy we have to eat three square, balanced, vitamin-fortified meals everyday is pure hogwash. Take a look at the way other animals eat. Do they get a good variety of different kinds of food everyday or do they eat what happens to be available at the moment? Certainly animals in the wild are more likely to face deficiencies but most do quite well be following the seasonal availability of different foods. Most are in far better physical shape than we are despite the fact that they suffer from parasites and don't have medicine available when they do become ill.ricstern said:who says we're in the same country...!? of course if you eat ****, then your performance will suffer. However, even if you do eat ****, you're a) eating enough with marginal vitamins in, and/or b) eating enough fortified vitamin foods, because lets face it in any western country there's no one with a vitamin deficiency or at least it would be a very small % of the population and most likely someone who doesn't race or train. (there's may be a tiny element who do, such as athletes with an eating disorder)
ric
Beastt said:Let's be logical. The idea that in order to be healthy we have to eat three square, balanced, vitamin-fortified meals everyday is pure hogwash. Take a look at the way other animals eat. Do they get a good variety of different kinds of food everyday or do they eat what happens to be available at the moment? Certainly animals in the wild are more likely to face deficiencies but most do quite well be following the seasonal availability of different foods. Most are in far better physical shape than we are despite the fact that they suffer from parasites and don't have medicine available when they do become ill.
Certainly most of us also eat a lot of pure garbage but the idea that this leads to vitamin deficiencies is, in most cases, nothing more than a good marketing strategy for the vitamin producers. What it leads to is an excess of things we shouldn't have in our bodies rather than a deficiency of the basic nutrients we need. Assuming most of us involved in this discussion are in America or equally developed countries, take a look around. Do you see people with bloated stomachs caused from malnutrition or do you see people carrying about 50 cheeseburgers wrapped around their waist, hips and thighs? Do you see people with deficiency-induced hair loss or do you see diabetes, heart attack and stroke as the major problems? Heart attack, stroke and in many cases, diabetes are diseases of excess, not of deficiency.
Try eliminating a little saturated fat, cholesterol and in many cases, excess protein from your diet and you'll benefit far more than from taking the urine-fortifying vitamins that people have become so feverish to ingest.
Seems to me that ricstern has done some intense homework on the topic.
Txbuckeye makes a good point about the nutrient deficient soil in this country, The U.S., I assume), but that's largely the effect of the increased pressures on agriculture to continue to produce the fat and cholesterol rich foods most developed countries demand. If you look into the current health issues, you quickly see that excess is still the current problem while everyone still focuses on deficiency.
Anyone have a case of beriberi, pellagra or scurvy? Know of anyone suffering from those diseases? How about high blood pressure, stroke, heart attack, osteoporosis or diabetes?
txbuckeye said:I think what it comes down to is if you eat a perfect diet, you don't need vitamins. Only you know if you do or don't. Realistically assessing my diet, I don't eat perfectly all the time. I agree, Beastt, the public in the US doesn't starve. That's obvious. I think that's different from nutrition though.Just because someone overeats doesn't mean they can assume they get the nutrition they need to be healthy. Excess is the major problem here in the US. A balance has to be maintained. The real issue here is, do you eat the wrong foods and do you overeat? If you answer yes to either question you might need to supplement and/or adjust the diet accordingly. Only the individual can make that decision after taking a hard look at their own diet.It's a struggle we all deal with.
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