Stop Turning Vitamins Into Expensive Urine!

Discussion in 'Health Nutrition and Supplements' started by ctrainey, Jul 17, 2004.

  1. dayttri

    dayttri New Member

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    Many people have seen a benefit to vitamin supplementation including myself.
    Don Bebee, the 2nd fastest man to play in the NFL, who I believe has the most super bowel rings (5) and is co-founder of the House of Speed (training athletes) just recently began taking vitamins has seen an increase in his stamina.
    And for optimal health we need optimal nutrition not just the RDA's.
    I could go on but please do not discourage any one from taking supplementation (along with their fruits and vegetables)

    Our Dr.'s do not study nutrition and the some that do are afraid to suggest vitamines because of the junk out on the market.
    Read Dr. Ray Strands (whom never suggested vitamins til his wife had such positive results) " What your Dr doesn't know about nutritional medicine may be killing you"
    Or Ultra-prevetion by Mark Hyman & Mark Liponis
    Food grown today in nutrient deficent soil, produces nutrient poor food
     


  2. dayttri

    dayttri New Member

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    I can not find any info on this product !
     
  3. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    it's spam rubbish
     
  4. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    for vitamin supplementation to have an effect on stamina you'd have to be vitamin deficient. you would then have a disease to go with that deficiency e.g., scurvy and vitamin C


    yes, athletes may require more vitamins than the standard amount, however, more importantly, a greater energy input is also required to maintain mass or build it, and with that extra energy input (extra food) you get extra vitamins.

    sounds like marketing hype to me.

    by all means take a multi vit and mineral tablets to get some 'insurance' but don't be fooled into thinking they'll make you faster/stronger/recover better etc, unless of course you have a vitamin deficiency illness.

    just choose the cheapest one.

    ric
     
  5. Beastt

    Beastt New Member

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    I agree that doctors know little more about nutrition than the average "Joe" on the street and there is quite a bit of information about the nutrient deficient soil used to grow produce in many areas, at least, many areas in the U.S.

    Aside from that I have to agree with ricstern that unless you're suffering a vitamin deficiency, which means you're eating very badly, you don't need vitamin or mineral supplimentation. It's just an easy way to throw your money in the sewer and a great way for vitamin companies to get rich from scaring everyone into thinking they're going to contract some exotic or devastating disease if they don't purchase and use these products religiously. It probably doesn't hurt to have a bit of potassium/magnesium/calcium around, especially if you do your workouts in warm climates where you'll sweat these nutrients out in rather large quantities. Calcium can supposedly help prevent muscle cramps, assuming you're staying properly hydrated.

    Can you quantify the benefits you've experience from vitamin supplimentation? What was the problem and what vitamins did you take to eliminate the problem?

    I wish Don Bebee the best of luck in curing his super bowel rings. I've heard those can cause much suffering. ;)

    (Yeah, that was cheap and I typo all the time too but I couldn't resist.)

    :)
     
  6. BiochemGuy

    BiochemGuy New Member

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    It's not just about preventing deficiency. Some vitamins like antioxidants offer benefits beyond what is needed of that vitamin to perform normal body functions. For instance, a cyclist who rides his bike near heavy automobile traffic is going to inhale and be exposed to alot of free radicals from the exhaust fumes of the automobiles. Taking extra antioxidants vitamins can help prevent damage done by these free radicals.
     
  7. Jhikers

    Jhikers New Member

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    Yes, many doctors know Jack about nutrition... but there are a mere few that know a LOT.

    This is the second thread that I have seen RicStern involved in, I sincerely hope no-one has changed their life according to his advice.

    He may think he lives in a developed country, but mate - let me tell you, as an athlete - you have deficiencies. 100%!!

    That www.cyclecoach.com link at the bottom of your signature is pretty bad marketing for them...

    I would say carbohydrate is a supplement, I consider water to be a supplement. These are things that your body consumes and utilises to live... to run more smoothly. Like oil on your chain, or air in your tubes... vitamins are part of all of this.
     
  8. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    yes, i'm in lots of the threads here! i even sponsor the forum! :eek:


    if i had a vitamin defiency, i would have an associated condition(s) with the vitamin defiency (e.g., scurvy)

    i AM cyclecoach. perhaps you're too stupid to read :p

    and, your point is...?
     
  9. Roadie_scum

    Roadie_scum New Member

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    I think perhaps that he is a complete clown. He's off in another forum advocating protein feeding during exercise. I hope everyone I have to race against starts taking his advice. :)
     
  10. I<3Carbs

    I<3Carbs New Member

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    I know that I'm a little late on this one, but I DID have a rather bad iron (and protein) deficiency for several years, which was diagnosed by blood tests when I was 20 years old. My red blood cell counts were as though I has recently donated 3 pints of blood, and I hadn't realized that a runner such as myself needed more than ~30 grams of protein a day. It can happen, even in a developed country, especially if people aren't taught how to eat properly at a younger age. I think that you're right in pointing out that most people worry too much over this stuff, though.
     
  11. Beastt

    Beastt New Member

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    Library cards are free in many places.

    I just love the "I consider water to be a suppliment", comment. This is pretty similar to the arguments I get from people about whether or not they've been the victim of a crime. When I tell them no crime has occurred or that they have a civil issue, they often respond with something like, "well I consider it theft because...". Such things aren't a matter of opinion. You can certainly have an opinion, but that doesn't change facts.

    Though you probably get adequate nutrition, I'll agree with you that you appear to be suffering a deficiency. It's something RicStern, Roadie_Scum, BioChemGuy or even I could probably provide a suppliment for but it's up to you to take it.

    You're preaching fallacy and putting down people who have studied fact. It's really not your fault, though. You're only repeating what you've been taught and that's about all any of us can do other than trying not to chisel the first thing we hear in stone and refusing to hear anything else. Probably the majority have been subjected to the protein/vitamin misinformation. The trend is now finally starting to turn.
     
  12. txbuckeye

    txbuckeye New Member

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    I'm curious and would like to be educated. What does a daily menu look like that supplies all the nutrients you need in order for you to perform and train (and recover) at optimum efficency? Considering the person weighs in at 190 lbs and rides 40 miles a day at a medium intensity.
     
  13. Jhikers

    Jhikers New Member

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    Yeah, I see... also a columnist on Cyclingnews.com, in all seriousness - very impressive.



    No, no you wouldn't. You may just feel like you've got a cold, maybe as bad as the flu, even a headache - you might see a few small black dots for a split second spring up in your eyesight. Maybe you've had a hard training session and the next few days feel really flat... these can all be due to a vitamin deficiency.



    I had a squiz at your site after my post. You seem to have a great business with loads of training options and your credentials are respectable - ABCC certified Level 3 Cycle Coach, but when it comes to some of your nutritional advice... poor form in parts.



    Simply that vitamins are an important part to maintaining the body's peak condition and aid very much so in recovery... which enables one to train much better the next day and so improve more and more, much faster than someone who needs to go easier or rest more. Vitamins are a PART of the input that an athlete, if not an everyday person, needs to perform optimally. Without them, you will never accomplish the ABSOLUTE BEST that you are capable of.




    Not another forum Roadie, I tend to stick to this one. Health, Nutrition and Supplements is definitely the most intriguing topic around. Something I study relentlessly and never tire of - the human body is SO complex, way beyond your imagination.

    I'd like to see everyone you race taking my advice too, I don't care if they beat you or not - but as long as they're looking after their bodies that little bit more, I'd be ecstatic.



    Factually, water may not be defined as a supplement. But as you must have overlooked, I was using it as an example as to why you should take vitamins. Like vitamins, it is something you need to keep topping your body up with.

    As far as open-mindedness goes, it is more yourself and the people you list who seem to be chiselling in stone. Give protein during exercise a go, investigate what vitamins make your body feel better - it's the least you could do. Maybe that won't work for you, so then I suggest you talk to the best practitioners your country has to offer and then some, as I have. If by that stage you are still unconvinced on the advantages of protein during exercise and the advantages of vitamins then I bid you happy riding.

    Because afterall, that is what it should all be about.


    "protein/vitamin misinformation"??!!! and you say that I'm preaching fallacy!



    I'm not here to argue - I've got a lot of training and sleeping to do.
    Take what you will from what I type, but one day I will write a book - and you will probably read it, but unfortunately be too old to turn back the clock and try it all out.

    But hey, if you're happy - I'm happy... I'm just trying to steer those after some guidance in the right direction.
     
  14. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    i also have a first class Hons degree in sports science with a major part of it being nutrition. i also have published peer reviewed research, and dabble with post grad research. additionally, i coach world class and pro cyclists, and am a consultant for several cycling related companies.

    there is nothing i have said in my nutrition points that cannot be backed up by countless pieces of research. in fact, if you go search the ACSM site, and look at their position stand on nutrition and athletic performance you'll see that my position mirrors theres as regards the information presented on e.g., protein and vitamins.


    do you work for a supplement company?


    no one's arguing, we're discussing. so, what *evidence* do you have to support your views that run counter to the ones presented?

    ric
     
  15. Jhikers

    Jhikers New Member

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    No, I do not work for a supplement company.

    My evidence is not a textual or statistical report that I can present to you in this medium. But one day when I'm in the UK, I would be more than happy to show you the evidence... myself.



    Consider this - a cyclist trains or even races over 100km and on the final hill climb of the day he suffers major cramps in his hamstrings. Why?! Vitamin/mineral Nutritional Deficiency...

    not only that, but as he approaches the summit he gives everything he's got and crosses the finish line, dazed, a little dehydrated and gets a head-spin, suddenly seeing little spots of black and floating cells in his eyesight momentarily. Why?! Vitamin/mineral Nutritional Deficiency...

    Or this - a cyclist falls and breaks his collarbone... he has had normal calcium intake all his life from dairy etc, sustaining himself fine (so he thinks). However, now the body needs to rebuild bone - requiring much more calcium than he has always put in. Dairy products come with added fat and cholesterol. His body is wanting to rebuild the bone, but the rest of his body needs its usual calcium supply... What does he do?!
    What has he got?! Vitamin/mineral Nutritional Deficiency...



    You still haven't considered trying it, have you?

    We both love riding and have stated our views, let those who want to try Protein during exercise and supplements do so - and those who don't carry on their merry way.

    Regards
    Jhikers
     
  16. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    Politely, you're talking rubbish. you haven't even constructed valid points of discussion.

    for e.g., "crosses the finish line, dazed, a little dehydrated and gets a head-spin, suddenly seeing little spots of black and floating cells in his eyesight momentarily. Why?! Vitamin/mineral Nutritional Deficiency"

    Erm... you correctly identified the issue straight away by stating dehydration, and then warbled into rubbish.

    How do you know the cramps are related to a micronutrient deficiency. Science hasn't yet managed to come up with a reason as to why cramping occurs, let alone a solution to cure it.

    Perhaps the floaters in the cyclists' eyes are related to an increase in blood pressure causing trauma to micro capillaries in the eyes and those are what the cyclist sees (subsequent bleeding), which would warrant a visit to an eye specialist

    ric "not convinced in the slightest with you vitamin stuff"
     
  17. txbuckeye

    txbuckeye New Member

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    Question for Ric,
    While looking at your web site I noticed you endorse several nutrition companies. "At RST we recommend products by Science in Sport, High Five, Powerbar, Torq Bar, and Maxim. " Do you endorse only some of the products these companies provide or all? I understand sport drinks, powerbars, and gels but I also see alot of protein supplements, creatine,amino's, etc. When do you suggest using these products?

    http://www.cyclecoach.com/?pageID=products
     
  18. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    yes, and that's why i put the next paragraph or sentence in about if you require specific help about a particular product.

    ric
     
  19. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    i often suffer from Vitamin B defficiency, with thanks to lack of sleep not enough vitamin C and over training.. the missus says it like i suffer from sort of dementia (paranoia even) but when i return to using my Vit B strong 30 plus extra vit C and a little rest then i'm fine energised .......... etc
     
  20. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    cramps are caused i find mainly by a lack of calcium, ether from water (dehydration) or lack of the vitamin... is that right.

    http://wilkes.edu/~eqc/hard1.htm
    http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Salt.htm
     
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