Storm Over City Mosque

I'll share this latest situation in my home town to see what you guys think or any comments you might make.
The city authorities have apparently decided to go ahead with a plan to flatten one certain section of the city and build a huge mosque in place of the old buildings. There are already far more mosques in the area than churches (not that I'm putting a religious take on the issue). The cost of the said mosque will run into millions of pounds and, so far as I can fathom, no vote or debate is being proposed.
A certain section of city residents are opposed both to the cost of this project and are angry about the whole situation.The area isn't particularly affluent and I guess many people would rather see their taxes channeled into schools, clinics or libraries or what have you. Let's bear in mind many care homes have closed due to lack of funds.
My question is what exactly is going on? Are we supposed to be a secular or religious society? It seems like all major cities in the U.K. are constructing mosques or organising Islamic lectures while scientific funding or technology institutions are running short of funds?
This situation seems to be exclusive to the U.K. within the context of Europe as a whole. We now have more mosques in major cities than any other European country. Even special Islamic banks are being introduced.
So, is the U.K. turning to Islam as an official state religion? If so, why?

 

Short answer: money. The moslems in your city have it and the city wants it.

Are you saying that public funds are being used to construct the mosque? Not to be nationalistic here but that would never be allowed in USA. The local government might give the mosque builders a break on property taxes or building permits in exchange for other concessions, but they'd never help pay for a religious building of any sect. I'd be mad as hell if they did.

 

Your post did make it clear if the funds were from tax payers or if the construction of the mosque is paid by the Muslim community ........ DiabloScott is correct in that it would never happen here in the states.
Tearing down buildings is a whole other issue and thread. That in it's self is a shame.
Why is there such a mass movement of Islamic thought moving into your area ? I come from an extremly diverse area in the midwestern USA. We had our area flooded with "other nationalities" because we had jobs that are not extremly desirable to offer them....... And I can tell our area has had a economic boost. {Plus better food at road side stands} Of course, we still have the segment of society that complains that they took all our jobs.
Here in the USA we are faced with several things that are new to us that European's are used to. Such as camera's in a public place. The attack on 9/11 caused a sense of fear that gives "big brother" what he wants. I see it in our youth. They feel as if a "police state" is OK if it does not concern them. The youth play under a whole new set of rules then when I was their age.
I see the USA headed in a direction I do not like. And I cannot blame it on the Republicans or the Democrats. I call it the "Wal-Mart Philosophy." Let me explain...... People go to Wal-Mart and purchase something. They get it home and it is not what they want or they have second thoughts. Maybe they even use it. So then they return it to Wal-Mart and get a refund , no questions asked. { I'm not talking about defective goods } So what happens is that they are guaranteed satisfaction even if they make a bad decision in the 1st place. They demand guarentees even with their own personal bad choices. This thought process transfers to other aspects of their lives.
Terrorism has occurred for years in Great Britain with the IRA situation. European's are familiar with attacks on istitutions and officials that we have not faced since the 60's. And that was overblown and confined to universitys and ghettos.
Life seemed to be simpler back in the day.

 

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and perhaps your area is a microcosm of what is happening worldwide.

The fact is that because of it's colonial history - all people of "the empire" are entitled to become British citizens.
Thus you have large swathes of Indian and Pakistani born Muslims relocating to Britain.

The fact of the matter is that the demographics of Britain will slowly change if that rate of immigration continues.
At present you have a majority of Christian (in name) people who abide by Christian values and mores.
With the decline in that population relative to Muslims, naturally there is going to be tensions because the established concepts will have to be amended or done away with to suit the prevailing demographics of the day.

But I wouldn't be too dispondent.
A British Muslim point of view, would not necessarily resonate with an Iraqi Muslim or a Pakistani Muslim viewpoint.

 

That will be a fun place in thirty years or so after they institute Sharia. Women cyclists will really dig the Muslim riding apparel.

 

Wasn't some of the people who blew up parts of London British Muslims? This gives new meaning to having the blinders on.....M

 

"With the decline in that population relative to Muslims, naturally there is going to be tensions because the established concepts will have to be amended or done away with to suit the prevailing demographics of the day."

Quran 9:5 ....Slay the Infidel whereever you find him.

That will create some tension allright.


What the hell is wrong with you people? THEY WANT YOU DEAD. JOIN OR DIE.

 

Tony Blankley, Washington Times, Sept. 12
​

The threat of the radical Islamists taking over Europe is every bit as great to the United States as was the threat of the Nazis taking over Europe in the 1940s.

We cannot afford to lose Europe. We cannot afford to see Europe transformed into a launching pad for Islamist jihad.

While we in the United States and Europe have vast resources for protecting ourselves, we have thought ourselves into a position of near impotence.

Beyond the growing number of Muslims committed to terrorism is the threat from the Islamic diaspora’s growing cultural and religious assertiveness—particularly in largely secular Europe, where Muslim cultural assimilation has not occurred.

It is beginning to dawn on Europeans that the combination of a shrinking ethnic-European population and an expanding, culturally assertive Muslim population might lead to the fall of Western civilization in Europe within a century.

This phenomenon, called Eurabia, is viewed with growing fatalism both in Europe and in America. Such fatalism, however, is premature.

Last November, an Islamist terrorist’s butchering of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who had made a movie revealing abuse of Muslim women, aroused deep fears in Holland and across the Continent.

The public anger, which included the burning of mosques in traditionally tolerant Holland, is evidence that the European instinct for survival has not been fully extinguished.

But that survival instinct is threatened by the multiculturalism and political correctness advocated in media and academe—and institutionalized in national and European Union laws and regulations for half a century.

{snip}

Radical Islam, sometimes accurately called Islamo-fascism, has all the “advantages” the Nazis had in Germany in the 1930s. The Islamo-fascists find a Muslim population adrift, confused and humiliated by the dominance of foreign nations and cultures. They find a large, youthful population increasingly disdainful of their parents’ passive habits.

Just as the Nazis reached back to German mythology and the supposed Aryan origins of the German people, the radical Islamists reach back to the founding ideas and myths of their religious culture. And just like the Nazis, they claim to speak for authentic traditions while actually advancing expedient and radical innovations.

The Islamo-fascist mullahs encourage young Muslims not to turn to their parents for guidance on choosing a wife (or wives). Nor are young Muslims to be guided by parental or community disapproval of making an individual commitment to jihad. They are allowed to drink alcohol, shave their beards and commit what otherwise would be judged immorality in a Muslim—in order to advance jihad.

{snip}

Muslim sections of Paris, Rotterdam and other European cities already are labeled “no-go zones” for ethnic Europeans, including armed policemen.

As the Muslim populations—and their level of cultural and religious assertiveness—expand, European geography will be “reclaimed” for Islam. Europe will become pockmarked with “little Fallujahs” that effectively will be impenetrable by anything much short of a U.S. Marine division.

{snip}



Read the rest of this story here.

 

In the famous words of one of my Air Force buddies......BOMBS AWAY!!!!!!!

 

Limerickman, I need your take on the "no-go-Zone" situation. Of course I am assuming here that you have been in Rotterdam or Paris. Or have some knowledge of what is going on. I just read thru this thread and discovered that Europe may have some of the same problems as the USA. Here in my part of the country our "other nationalities" are usually white Euro's or Mexicans..... Which both fit in as part of our city. We have a large black segment which like to refer to themselves as "African Americans" but they have been here so long they do not know of any family from Africa. So I do not consider "African-Americans" as anything but part of the original bunch of people that formed this community. To me they are "American -Americans."
I come from a strong German background. I have studied the German movement from 1920-1955 . Basically from the Nazi's to the reconstruction. And have viewed it from a European outlook, not from a "John Wayne .. We took Europe " viewpoint. When people compare Bush or anything they do not like to the Nazi's, they need to look again. The Nazi's are incomparable to anyone in modern European opr American history except maybe Stalin.... And this talk of a "world order." Such nonsense. If you could put more then 2 people with that much power into a room their overly inflated ego's would not allow them to work together. In this country I hear people " screaming the Jewish Alarm." Maybe instead of complaining about Jewish domination we should look to see what made the "Jewish Domination "in the 1st place..... Then copy them.
I will admit I do not like some of the "other nationalities" customs. But I do not allow it to bother me. I enjoy the different food and drink. But on the other hand, I do not change my customs in order to please them. Two customs can co-exsist with dislike for either but still remain respectful.
I attempt to purchase free trade items. But more importantly I try to purchase local products. I would rather support a 'Bosnian National" in my community with goods to sell then a "white German who likes to collect vintage Raleigh products like me" person who lives far away. It's rare that I will eat in a corporate chain food place when so many of my friends are owners of small places.
I do not see many of the Muslims around here. There a small market at the middle of my "Lake ride. I stop there and get a ice cream snack way too often. The Paki behind the counter always charges me $ .07 too much. Now, I really do not care about the $.07, but the part that bothers me is that by paying the extra $.07 I have to break an additional dollor bill which leaves me a bunch of coins. . Then I store the change coins in a "water bottle " that holds important things on my ride. And then the change falls out when I grab for my house keys. Such stress in my life.

 

What you describe is quite correct although maybe the difference is you probably see the trend as positive while I see it as negative. But the fact remains the future of the U.K. is going to be chiefly Islamic.
There is a repeat pattern of what happened to the Roman Empire. Around 100 B.C. when the Roman Empire was a Republic, the army, military machine and civil service was made up of Romans and Itialians or other Latin peoples. But by 400 A.D., the Romans and Italians came to make up a small percentage of the army and were reduced to an ethnic minority.
Names such as "Maximus" ending in the usual "us" slowly started to disappear.
But the important fact to grasp is that while the old Roman world became ethnically transformed, it also became far weaker, more divided, unable to control the borders and dominated by unrest caused by religions such as Jewish fundamentalism or radical Christianity.
In a word, the masses of races that migrated to Rome were far less advanced than the Romans and Greeks and the result was we were catapulted into the Dark Ages.
This is exactly what is happening within parts of Europe and chiefly the U.K.
I also note that in England especially, Islam is becoming as important as evangelical Christianity in the U.S. and secularism is taking a huge back seat.
So, basically, the U.S. is becoming less secular and more Christian fundamentalist while England has adopted Islam and mosques already far outnumber churches.

 

So far as I'm aware the local council tried to hoodwink the community by affirming taxes won't be used for the project. But in actual fact public money is being used and this is a fairly poor area. There are care homes facing closure and a real need to repair roads or invest in business or housing.
Till a couple of decades ago this was a secular country. But I note there are mosques springing up all over the city and in the bigger cities there are many more.
For some reason, this trend didn't quite gain a foothold in Scotland or Wales where the people tend to be more nationalistic or inclined to protest.
Now the same situation came about in Holland and I'm aware many Dutch left the country to live in Australia or New Zealand. A new wave of intolerance swept through Holland shortly after the stabbing of the Dutch artist who criticized Islam in a theatrical production.
The problem is very simple to diagnose. What happens is people arrive here from the Middle East with the aim of finding more freedom and a better life. Many immigrants would be quite content to just find work, settle down and adopt western values. But then they get the message that somehow people over here are confused about the western, democratic value system and that many mosques are being built or Islamic lectures being organised e.t.c. e.t.c.
So, I guess it's the left-wing, chattering intelligentsia of our political party that is bringing about so much confusion in the value system.
Now France has been having far more success. Immigrants to France quickly learn where the secular value system lies and respect the customs of their adopted country. They are free to practise whatever religion they choose but have to accept France itself is secular. So, there is far more harmony and French Asians tend to speak very good French and mix with other French people.
The only negative is that many Jews had to leave France.

 

I wouldn't say I was racist, but I have a big problem with mosques being built all over the country. This country is way too accomodating to the asian community. If westerners in Islamic/Muslim countries asked the authorities there for permission to built Catholic/Protestant churches, the answer would be a straight 'NO!' They would be told they moved there of their own free will and have no right to practice their western religions as it would interfere with their own beliefs. My personal belief is that if you emigrate to a certain country, you should adopt that countries own beliefs and customs and not expect 'special treatment' because your religion says otherwise. Considering it's becoming more and more impossible for a British person to fly the Union Jack on St Georges day on British land without being threatened by their own local council with legal action or fines, I find it disgusting when these same councils agree to have mosques springing up everywhere I look. Even town halls and local council housing offices now have to employ interpreters and notices on the walls of most government buildings and hospitals have to contain Arabic text. No special provisions are made for the Irish, French, German or any other foreign nationality who emigrate here. I myself am Catholic, yet I don't go around on St Patricks day with a big green hat shouting "I LOVE IRELAND". I can see the day when the same troubles that have divided Ireland develope here in England. WTF is going on in the world?

 

I am encouraged by the posts of the Brits. There is great respect in the US for the Britain of Winston Churchill. Britain must protect her unique cultural and genetic heritage.

 

As an American I find this thread very interesting. I could have wrote shannon's dad's post about my home area without changing the content one bit. In our local school where my daughter attended there was a speaker who gave a talk on the Muslim religion. It was considered to be "Culture Awareness Day." A parent asked to give a talk on Christianity but was refused because our public system is to be secular.
The Euro's / Mexicans have adopted into or society seamlessly to a degree. They celebrate their customs and invite "us" to participate in the celebrations with food and drink. The Pakistani's are very de-tached from the rest of society. And maybe part of it is our fault.
Of course, history is repeating itself here in America. We have always been a melting pot of many nationalities. And when my German/Irish ancestors came over to America, the original nationality {Native Indians} were denied their culture too .....
Carrera..... I just realized something ...... Here I am a American Republican and you are a bleeding heart commie liberal left wing individual and I am defending liberal views to you ...... The world has gone insane.
I have to give this some thought. As an official white guy Republican I need to agree with you.
I feel better now. I just sent a check to the Bush/Cheney/Fox News organization. Whew.... That was scary. For a moment there I might have had some compassion there for someone other then me.

 

This is difficult to explain. Firstly, I'm more of a socialist than a communist. Some things I liked about the USSR, of course, but I'll be the first to admit Soviet Russia made many fundamental mistakes such as excluding private ownership of property, human rights, refusing Russians the right to travel e.t.c.
But one thing I did like about the communists was the steps they took to repress religion, recognising religion had been used as a tool by the Tsars to impoverish the population of peasants and workers.
But forget the idea that socialism should be so rigid that people can't trade, own private property or produce domestic products.
The closest we got to a more open communism was perestroika but unfortunately it all went wrong.

 

A couple other things. Recently, a few new Catholic schools have been built. The owners of said schools wanted to name them after saints, as it is traditional. The authorities said "No". Why? Because according to them, it would cause offence to the ethnic population. Eh? How? The Red Cross had to remove certain Christmas cards a few years ago because they contained religious pictures relating to Jesus Christ and his mum. Again the reason was because they would offend the Muslim/Islamic community. WTF!!! If it wasn't for Mr. Christ and his mum and dad, there wouldn't be a [email protected] Christmas. It's got nothing to do with eastern religion. Whatever next.....maybe taking the Easter Bunny into custody and charging him with theft? We all know rabbits don't lay eggs!!! Or giving Santa Clause a speeding ticket and 12 month driving ban because he must easily break every speed limit on the planet to deliver all those presents? Seriously, the polititians who run our countries all need an individual kick up the arse with a lead boot back into reality.

 

This is taking place because Blair has adopted multiculturalism as a state policy. Multiculturalism is a kind of left-wing doctrine that believes populations of countries shouldn't be made up of ethnic majorities. Theoretically Japan and China, according to Blair, would be better off if they opened up the borders, welfare, job markets e.t.c to everybody.
"Hey folks, we're all immigrants. Everybody welcome!"
Blair believes that it would lead to greater prosperity if the old populations of Welsh, English, Scots and Irish were watered down. He also stated his aim was to build a society based on Christianity and Islam. His idea of merging politics with religion is especially worrying.
This theory of multiculturalism has been preached by Blair as Gospel but it is essentially flawed. In fact, scientific tests and surveys were carried out in the U.S. and the data and research indicated multicultural societies were less prosperous, more inclined to racism and didn't function as well as less diverse communities. There has been a pronounced turn from multiculturalism lately amongst U.S. academics who are challenging the old views of the sixties. Moreover, history shows that multiculturalism has never actually worked in those states that adopted it.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we shouldn't have diversity in a country. Where I differ from Blair is that I don't accept this idea there should be no single ethnic majority or sense of nationality or identity.
I also note that China is producing jobs for Chinese people and Chinese universities educate Chinese graduates. And China is doing fine.

 

Carrera: I agree! What's the point of arguing over a political system if we're trying to kill each other because of race and culture?

 

Let me add that multiculturalism is still very alive and well at US colleges. In fact, many believe multiculturalism is the unofficial state religion. Any dissent on campus is dealt with harshly. It is very difficult to discuss race and culture anywhere without being ostracized or worse.