Strange Failure (Trans X shock absorbing seat post), How to repair?

[Ron Hardin]

A first I've heard of, my seat post failed, the only expensive component
on the bike. It broke cleanly at the top of the frame, at the front,
and the seat post swung backwards to the milk crate mounted behind
it

http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure002.jpg

You face a decision : do you pedal onwards to your destination, exposing
yourself to a risk of an additional 5 miles if it truly breaks down,
or return home from the point you're at. I proceeded onwards

http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure001.jpg

with the seat tied to the handle bar stem with a handy section of
nylon dog leash that seemed like a good idea to pack once.

I made it home (I now have a theory of stand-up ergonomics) by not
using the seat, and remembering that I have to mount and dismount
in the traditional guy fashion rather than swinging a foot over
the top bar as I preferred.

Swinging the seat back and forth a dozen times broke the remaining
bit of seat post at the rear, and now there is the problem of
getting the aluminum seat post remnant out of the steel bike frame.

It's welded itself in place.

There's a bottom to the aluminum tube remnant, so I put a huge drift
punch in against it, got a heavy sledge hammer, and gave it many good
whacks, to no effect, trying to break it free. No luck, and I finally
broke through the bottom, ending that direction of repair.

So this aluminum tube sits welded to this steel frame. Any ideas
how to separate them? I have several good places to grip the
tube, but it really thinks it's structurally part of the steel, I think.

Ironic that the bike finally gets finished off by the most expensive
component.

Don't buy these

http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure003.jpg


--
Ron Hardin
[email protected]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

 

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-07-16, Ron Hardin <[email protected]> wrote:
> A first I've heard of, my seat post failed, the only expensive component
> on the bike. It broke cleanly at the top of the frame, at the front,
> and the seat post swung backwards to the milk crate mounted behind
> it

This sort of brake is common when the seatpost is raised above its
minimum insertion line. I can't see the line in the photo so this may
not be the problem, but you should check this when you get a new
seatpost.

As for getting the old post out, soak in WD40/RP7/whatever overnight and
try gripping the post at the slot in the seat tube with needle nosed
vise grips. If that fails slot the seat tube down its remaining length
and roll it up into itself. It should come out fairly easily.

If you put a layer of grease down the seat tube when you install the new
seatpost it shouldn't rust in again

Cheers

Joel


--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
[email protected] | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
Ron Hardin <[email protected]> wrote:

> A first I've heard of, my seat post failed, the only expensive component
> on the bike. It broke cleanly at the top of the frame, at the front,
> and the seat post swung backwards to the milk crate mounted behind
> it
>
> http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure002.jpg
>
> You face a decision : do you pedal onwards to your destination, exposing
> yourself to a risk of an additional 5 miles if it truly breaks down,
> or return home from the point you're at. I proceeded onwards
>
> http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure001.jpg
>
> with the seat tied to the handle bar stem with a handy section of
> nylon dog leash that seemed like a good idea to pack once.
>
> I made it home (I now have a theory of stand-up ergonomics) by not
> using the seat, and remembering that I have to mount and dismount
> in the traditional guy fashion rather than swinging a foot over
> the top bar as I preferred.
>
> Swinging the seat back and forth a dozen times broke the remaining
> bit of seat post at the rear, and now there is the problem of
> getting the aluminum seat post remnant out of the steel bike frame.
>
> It's welded itself in place.
>
> There's a bottom to the aluminum tube remnant, so I put a huge drift
> punch in against it, got a heavy sledge hammer, and gave it many good
> whacks, to no effect, trying to break it free. No luck, and I finally
> broke through the bottom, ending that direction of repair.
>
> So this aluminum tube sits welded to this steel frame. Any ideas
> how to separate them? I have several good places to grip the
> tube, but it really thinks it's structurally part of the steel, I think.

From your description it is likely the Al oxidized and
the compound expanded. Best bet is to cut away the Al
from the inside out. First choice is a horizontal mill.
Next is a drill press. Rotate the bed of the drill
press out of the way. Then find a way to securely clamp
the seat tube dead vertical. Perhaps you can use the
edge of the drill press bed. The remainder of the job
is a doddle.

--
Michael Press

 

[A Muzi]

Ron Hardin wrote:
> A first I've heard of, my seat post failed, the only expensive component
> on the bike. It broke cleanly at the top of the frame, at the front,
> and the seat post swung backwards to the milk crate mounted behind
> it
> http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure002.jpg
> You face a decision : do you pedal onwards to your destination, exposing
> yourself to a risk of an additional 5 miles if it truly breaks down,
> or return home from the point you're at. I proceeded onwards
> http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure001.jpg
> with the seat tied to the handle bar stem with a handy section of
> nylon dog leash that seemed like a good idea to pack once.
> I made it home (I now have a theory of stand-up ergonomics) by not
> using the seat, and remembering that I have to mount and dismount
> in the traditional guy fashion rather than swinging a foot over
> the top bar as I preferred.
> Swinging the seat back and forth a dozen times broke the remaining
> bit of seat post at the rear, and now there is the problem of
> getting the aluminum seat post remnant out of the steel bike frame.
> It's welded itself in place.
> There's a bottom to the aluminum tube remnant, so I put a huge drift
> punch in against it, got a heavy sledge hammer, and gave it many good
> whacks, to no effect, trying to break it free. No luck, and I finally
> broke through the bottom, ending that direction of repair.
> So this aluminum tube sits welded to this steel frame. Any ideas
> how to separate them? I have several good places to grip the
> tube, but it really thinks it's structurally part of the steel, I think.
> Ironic that the bike finally gets finished off by the most expensive
> component.
> Don't buy these
> http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure003.jpg

With all respect I don't believe Trans-X are any different from any
other aluminum post. Having just spent over an hour removing the
remnants of a broken post stump I think you're in for a real adventure now.

Your bike doesn't look all that rusty. But since you report that it is
indeed stuck, know that oxides are larger and less dense than metals.
Corrosion between a snug-fitting aluminum post in a steel tube is really
tight once any moisture gets in. And it always gets in.

If it is mildly corroded you may be able to slit one side, curl up the
edge and withdraw the post. That can be tedious. Here's an example:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/goodn.html

If it is severely corroded you may be able to slowly ream the post in
multiple passes until there is only a shell of corroded hard oxide left.
Polish that away with a tube polisher or hone. With good
tooling,(letter H reamer, solid long Starrett handle, rigid work stand)
expect about an hour and a half of vigorous work.

If your time has any value, melt out the post. Remove any equipment you
don't want to immolate (cables, etc) . Position the seat tube nearly
horizontal over a bucket of water. A welding rod or similar helps to
pull out the melted aluminum once it's plastic. It won't flow well if
there's a lot of oxide. The aluminum melts at a temperature well below
any damage to the steel.

Acid etch, primer and color complete your adventure. Once or twice
annually, a seatpost clean/lube in future!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[A Muzi]

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Ron Hardin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> A first I've heard of, my seat post failed, the only expensive component
>> on the bike. It broke cleanly at the top of the frame, at the front,
>> and the seat post swung backwards to the milk crate mounted behind
>> it
>>
>> http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure002.jpg
>>
>> You face a decision : do you pedal onwards to your destination, exposing
>> yourself to a risk of an additional 5 miles if it truly breaks down,
>> or return home from the point you're at. I proceeded onwards
>>
>> http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure001.jpg
>>
>> with the seat tied to the handle bar stem with a handy section of
>> nylon dog leash that seemed like a good idea to pack once.
>>
>> I made it home (I now have a theory of stand-up ergonomics) by not
>> using the seat, and remembering that I have to mount and dismount
>> in the traditional guy fashion rather than swinging a foot over
>> the top bar as I preferred.
>>
>> Swinging the seat back and forth a dozen times broke the remaining
>> bit of seat post at the rear, and now there is the problem of
>> getting the aluminum seat post remnant out of the steel bike frame.
>>
>> It's welded itself in place.
>>
>> There's a bottom to the aluminum tube remnant, so I put a huge drift
>> punch in against it, got a heavy sledge hammer, and gave it many good
>> whacks, to no effect, trying to break it free. No luck, and I finally
>> broke through the bottom, ending that direction of repair.
>>
>> So this aluminum tube sits welded to this steel frame. Any ideas
>> how to separate them? I have several good places to grip the
>> tube, but it really thinks it's structurally part of the steel, I think.

Michael Press wrote:
> From your description it is likely the Al oxidized and
> the compound expanded. Best bet is to cut away the Al
> from the inside out. First choice is a horizontal mill.
> Next is a drill press. Rotate the bed of the drill
> press out of the way. Then find a way to securely clamp
> the seat tube dead vertical. Perhaps you can use the
> edge of the drill press bed. The remainder of the job
> is a doddle.

Clamping the frame rigidly and in line with a reamer isn't trivial.

When I worked for Ray Gasiorowski, I sent a 27.2 reamer right out the
side of a new freshly painted custom frame's seat tube. Ouch.

To his credit, he didn't murder me on the spot, as I richly deserved.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Ron Hardin wrote:
> ...
> So this aluminum tube sits welded to this steel frame. Any ideas
> how to separate them? I have several good places to grip the
> tube, but it really thinks it's structurally part of the steel, I think....

What would Sheldon do [1]?

See <http://sheldonbrown.com/stuck-seatposts.html>.

[1] Insert snarky retort from Ozark Bicycle here for mentioning S. Brown.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Ron Hardin]

Joel Mayes wrote:
> This sort of brake is common when the seatpost is raised above its
> minimum insertion line. I can't see the line in the photo so this may
> not be the problem, but you should check this when you get a new
> seatpost.

There was lots of length below the seat tube, so it's not that. Indeed
the length there is more of a problem, more material to weld itself in.

I'm surprised at the failure, because there's certainly no particular
load on the seat tube. I only weigh 150, and use the bike for
commuting and errands, not rock jumping. I have maybe 20k miles on
this particular bike.

Maybe I'll stick with steel seat posts in the future, if the aluminum
ones all tend to do this.
--
Ron Hardin
[email protected]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:52:07 GMT, Ron Hardin <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Maybe I'll stick with steel seat posts in the future, if the aluminum
>ones all tend to do this.

You think they all tend to break this way? If so, why do you call the
failure strange?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[Ron Hardin]

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:52:07 GMT, Ron Hardin <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Maybe I'll stick with steel seat posts in the future, if the aluminum
> >ones all tend to do this.
>
> You think they all tend to break this way? If so, why do you call the
> failure strange?

I thought it was unique. It was, in my experience. But people responded
that it's a fairly common problem, which I put down to my inexperience
with expensive bike parts. I had always gone with steel before.

Oh except I had a Campy seat post on my long-ago stolen Raleigh
International, that didn't break. Now there was a nice bike.

--
Ron Hardin
[email protected]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

 

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-07-17, Ron Hardin <[email protected]> wrote:
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:52:07 GMT, Ron Hardin <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Maybe I'll stick with steel seat posts in the future, if the aluminum
>> >ones all tend to do this.
>>
>> You think they all tend to break this way? If so, why do you call the
>> failure strange?
>
> I thought it was unique. It was, in my experience. But people responded
> that it's a fairly common problem, which I put down to my inexperience
> with expensive bike parts. I had always gone with steel before.

It's common the when a seat post brakes it brakes there. It's not comon
for seat posts to brake.

--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
[email protected] | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

 

[Peter Cole]

Ron Hardin wrote:

> So this aluminum tube sits welded to this steel frame. Any ideas
> how to separate them? I have several good places to grip the
> tube, but it really thinks it's structurally part of the steel, I think.

When aluminum corrodes, the oxides formed are much bulkier than the
parent metal, so the tube swells and forms a press fit which may be
impossible to twist or drive out, penetrating oil doesn't usually help,
either, since it can't get into the interface,

The suggestion of a drill press isn't helpful unless you have both it
and suitably large bits (plus it's a bear to fixture).

What I did when this happened with a stem was to mount a "rotary rasp"
on a hand drill and "chew" the aluminum away until the wall was thin
enough to peel. With a seat tube, you might do just as well with a
hacksaw blade & handle, slitting the tube in a few places. The good news
is aluminum is soft and the corrosion usually forms just near the top.

 

[Bill Sornson]

"Joel Mayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> It's not comon for seat posts to brake.

Indeed.

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
Joel Mayes <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2007-07-17, Ron Hardin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:52:07 GMT, Ron Hardin <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Maybe I'll stick with steel seat posts in the future, if the aluminum
> >> >ones all tend to do this.
> >>
> >> You think they all tend to break this way? If so, why do you call the
> >> failure strange?
> >
> > I thought it was unique. It was, in my experience. But people responded
> > that it's a fairly common problem, which I put down to my inexperience
> > with expensive bike parts. I had always gone with steel before.
>
> It's common the when a seat post brakes it brakes there. It's not comon
> for seat posts to brake.

That is `break'.

--
Michael Press

 

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-07-17, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
><[email protected]>,
> Joel Mayes <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-07-17, Ron Hardin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:52:07 GMT, Ron Hardin <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Maybe I'll stick with steel seat posts in the future, if the aluminum
>> >> >ones all tend to do this.
>> >>
>> >> You think they all tend to break this way? If so, why do you call the
>> >> failure strange?
>> >
>> > I thought it was unique. It was, in my experience. But people responded
>> > that it's a fairly common problem, which I put down to my inexperience
>> > with expensive bike parts. I had always gone with steel before.
>>
>> It's common the when a seat post brakes it brakes there. It's not comon
>> for seat posts to brake.
>
> That is `break'.


True. though a the break in the seatpost would cause me to use the brakes.


--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
[email protected] | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jul 16, 11:13 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ron Hardin wrote:
> > A first I've heard of, my seat post failed, the only expensive component
> > on the bike. It broke cleanly at the top of the frame, at the front,
> > and the seat post swung backwards to the milk crate mounted behind
> > it
> >http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure002.jpg
> > You face a decision : do you pedal onwards to your destination, exposing
> > yourself to a risk of an additional 5 miles if it truly breaks down,
> > or return home from the point you're at. I proceeded onwards
> >http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure001.jpg
> > with the seat tied to the handle bar stem with a handy section of
> > nylon dog leash that seemed like a good idea to pack once.
> > I made it home (I now have a theory of stand-up ergonomics) by not
> > using the seat, and remembering that I have to mount and dismount
> > in the traditional guy fashion rather than swinging a foot over
> > the top bar as I preferred.
> > Swinging the seat back and forth a dozen times broke the remaining
> > bit of seat post at the rear, and now there is the problem of
> > getting the aluminum seat post remnant out of the steel bike frame.
> > It's welded itself in place.
> > There's a bottom to the aluminum tube remnant, so I put a huge drift
> > punch in against it, got a heavy sledge hammer, and gave it many good
> > whacks, to no effect, trying to break it free. No luck, and I finally
> > broke through the bottom, ending that direction of repair.
> > So this aluminum tube sits welded to this steel frame. Any ideas
> > how to separate them? I have several good places to grip the
> > tube, but it really thinks it's structurally part of the steel, I think.
> > Ironic that the bike finally gets finished off by the most expensive
> > component.
> > Don't buy these
> >http://home.att.net/~rhhardinc/failure003.jpg
>
> With all respect I don't believe Trans-X are any different from any
> other aluminum post. Having just spent over an hour removing the
> remnants of a broken post stump I think you're in for a real adventure now.

Just spent 2 days adding fluids into the seattube, twisting,
fluiding..to remove a stuck seatpost..PLEASE people, take these things
out once or more per year, clean and lube..
>
> Your bike doesn't look all that rusty. But since you report that it is
> indeed stuck, know that oxides are larger and less dense than metals.
> Corrosion between a snug-fitting aluminum post in a steel tube is really
> tight once any moisture gets in. And it always gets in.
>
> If it is mildly corroded you may be able to slit one side, curl up the
> edge and withdraw the post. That can be tedious. Here's an example:http://www.yellowjersey.org/goodn.html
>
> If it is severely corroded you may be able to slowly ream the post in
> multiple passes until there is only a shell of corroded hard oxide left.
> Polish that away with a tube polisher or hone. With good
> tooling,(letter H reamer, solid long Starrett handle, rigid work stand)
> expect about an hour and a half of vigorous work.
>
> If your time has any value, melt out the post. Remove any equipment you
> don't want to immolate (cables, etc) . Position the seat tube nearly
> horizontal over a bucket of water. A welding rod or similar helps to
> pull out the melted aluminum once it's plastic. It won't flow well if
> there's a lot of oxide. The aluminum melts at a temperature well below
> any damage to the steel.
>
> Acid etch, primer and color complete your adventure. Once or twice
> annually, a seatpost clean/lube in future!
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971