strange wheels?!?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Ken Marcet, Feb 18, 2005.

  1. Ken Marcet

    Ken Marcet Guest

    I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my surprise
    it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in the
    race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do not fit
    properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very cheaply
    made hub.

    Ken

    --
    It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.
    Arthur C. Clarke
    English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - )
     
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  2. DB Rea

    DB Rea Guest

    On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:57:13 -0500, Ken Marcet wrote:

    > I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my surprise
    > it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in the
    > race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do not fit
    > properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very cheaply
    > made hub.
    >
    > Ken


    Uncaged balls are not necessarily the sign of a cheap hub. In fact the
    opposite is often true. Depending on the overall geometry of the whole
    hub, it is sometimes possible to get one more bearing ball into the race if
    loose bearings are used instead of caged bearings.
     
  3. Ken Marcet wrote:
    > I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

    surprise
    > it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit

    in the
    > race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

    not fit
    > properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

    cheaply
    > made hub.
    >
    > Ken



    The opposite is true: caged ball bearings are the sign of a cheap hub,
    while loose bearings are generally found on more expensive hubs. In
    either case, disassembling them, cleaning, regreasing, and properly
    adjusting will do wonders for their durability.

    This ignores "sealed" cartridge bearings, of course. These have been
    discussed often enough in here, so I'll let you search for previous
    postings.

    Jeff
     
  4. RonSonic

    RonSonic Guest

    On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:57:13 -0500, "Ken Marcet" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my surprise
    >it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in the
    >race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do not fit
    >properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very cheaply
    >made hub.


    Google for "clue." Maybe you can find one and get it overnighted.

    Ron
     
  5. Ken Marcet

    Ken Marcet Guest

    The regular bearing was one in a cage! And it didn't seat properly.

    Ken

    "RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:45:47 -0600, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Ken Marcet wrote:
    > >> I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

    surprise
    > >> it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in

    the
    > >> race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

    not fit
    > >> properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

    cheaply
    > >> made hub.

    > >
    > >That's the standard design for bicycles, front hubs with
    > >ball retainers being generally on the cheap side of the
    > >business ( with exceptions of course).
    > >
    > >There's no inherence. Although most medium to high quality
    > >front hubs have loose balls, Wald steel fronts and
    > >Campagnolo Record both have retainers.
    > >
    > >See if you have ten on each side, clean out any dirt or
    > >contamination and lay the balls in a line of fresh clean
    > >grease -enough to fill the space to the depth of the
    > >bearing. (Excess grease will harmlessly squirt out on your
    > >first ride).
    > >
    > >More common problems include assembly with a ball out of
    > >place ( assembling in grease helps that) and improper
    > >adjustment.
    > >
    > >OUr FAQ is good for this:
    > >http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html
    > >
    > >be sure to lock your bearing adjustment so it remains
    > >properly adjusted with a slight preload.

    >
    > Okay, Andy. If he was serious then what in the name of Tullio was that

    "regular
    > bearing" he was trying to fit in there?
    >
    > Ron
     
  6. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    >>>Ken Marcet wrote:
    >>>>I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

    > surprise
    >>>>it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in

    > the
    >>>>race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

    > not fit
    >>>>properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

    > cheaply
    >>>>made hub.


    >>On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:45:47 -0600, A Muzi

    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>That's the standard design for bicycles, front hubs with
    >>>ball retainers being generally on the cheap side of the
    >>>business ( with exceptions of course).


    >>>There's no inherence. Although most medium to high quality
    >>>front hubs have loose balls, Wald steel fronts and
    >>>Campagnolo Record both have retainers.


    >>>See if you have ten on each side, clean out any dirt or
    >>>contamination and lay the balls in a line of fresh clean
    >>>grease -enough to fill the space to the depth of the
    >>>bearing. (Excess grease will harmlessly squirt out on your
    >>>first ride).


    >>>More common problems include assembly with a ball out of
    >>>place ( assembling in grease helps that) and improper
    >>>adjustment.


    >>>OUr FAQ is good for this:
    >>>http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html


    >>>be sure to lock your bearing adjustment so it remains
    >>>properly adjusted with a slight preload.


    > "RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>Okay, Andy. If he was serious then what in the name of Tullio was that

    > "regular
    >>bearing" he was trying to fit in there?


    Ken Marcet wrote:
    > The regular bearing was one in a cage! And it didn't seat

    properly.


    For front hub retainers, we have a half dozen models, There
    are probably more. I don't seek them out as a rebuild is
    more expensive than a new wheel in many cases. Designers
    had various things in mind when they made all the older
    varied front hubs. Gone are hub oilers, 'heavy duty' models,
    felt seals, etc. Now they seem to be more uniform, 10x10
    3/16 balls mostly.

    As I wrote earlier, just rebuild with clean grease, new
    balls and be done with it.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  7. RonSonic

    RonSonic Guest

    On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 06:44:29 -0500, "Ken Marcet" <kcmarc[email protected]> wrote:

    >The regular bearing was one in a cage! And it didn't seat properly.
    >


    Wow. Okay.

    Any bike shop will stock the loose balls you want. Bring a sample to be sure of
    size. The usual drill is to fill the race with grease, lay in as many balls as
    possible and then remove one for clearance. You'll want extras anyway. If you've
    got a spare then none of them will successfully escape. On the other hand if you
    don't get a spare then one will roll somewhere unreachable to leave you short.

    There is controversy about what is the best grease. I like a nice white lithium.

    Good luck.

    Ron

    >"RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:45:47 -0600, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Ken Marcet wrote:
    >> >> I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

    >surprise
    >> >> it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in

    >the
    >> >> race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

    >not fit
    >> >> properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

    >cheaply
    >> >> made hub.
    >> >
    >> >That's the standard design for bicycles, front hubs with
    >> >ball retainers being generally on the cheap side of the
    >> >business ( with exceptions of course).
    >> >
    >> >There's no inherence. Although most medium to high quality
    >> >front hubs have loose balls, Wald steel fronts and
    >> >Campagnolo Record both have retainers.
    >> >
    >> >See if you have ten on each side, clean out any dirt or
    >> >contamination and lay the balls in a line of fresh clean
    >> >grease -enough to fill the space to the depth of the
    >> >bearing. (Excess grease will harmlessly squirt out on your
    >> >first ride).
    >> >
    >> >More common problems include assembly with a ball out of
    >> >place ( assembling in grease helps that) and improper
    >> >adjustment.
    >> >
    >> >OUr FAQ is good for this:
    >> >http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html
    >> >
    >> >be sure to lock your bearing adjustment so it remains
    >> >properly adjusted with a slight preload.

    >>
    >> Okay, Andy. If he was serious then what in the name of Tullio was that

    >"regular
    >> bearing" he was trying to fit in there?
    >>
    >> Ron
     
  8. Ken Marcet

    Ken Marcet Guest

    "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > >>>Ken Marcet wrote:
    > >>>>I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my

    > > surprise
    > >>>>it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit

    in
    > > the
    > >>>>race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do

    > > not fit
    > >>>>properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very

    > > cheaply
    > >>>>made hub.

    >
    > >>On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:45:47 -0600, A Muzi

    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>>That's the standard design for bicycles, front hubs with
    > >>>ball retainers being generally on the cheap side of the
    > >>>business ( with exceptions of course).

    >
    > >>>There's no inherence. Although most medium to high quality
    > >>>front hubs have loose balls, Wald steel fronts and
    > >>>Campagnolo Record both have retainers.

    >
    > >>>See if you have ten on each side, clean out any dirt or
    > >>>contamination and lay the balls in a line of fresh clean
    > >>>grease -enough to fill the space to the depth of the
    > >>>bearing. (Excess grease will harmlessly squirt out on your
    > >>>first ride).

    >
    > >>>More common problems include assembly with a ball out of
    > >>>place ( assembling in grease helps that) and improper
    > >>>adjustment.

    >
    > >>>OUr FAQ is good for this:
    > >>>http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html

    >
    > >>>be sure to lock your bearing adjustment so it remains
    > >>>properly adjusted with a slight preload.

    >
    > > "RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >>Okay, Andy. If he was serious then what in the name of Tullio was that

    > > "regular
    > >>bearing" he was trying to fit in there?

    >
    > Ken Marcet wrote:
    > > The regular bearing was one in a cage! And it didn't seat

    > properly.
    >
    >
    > For front hub retainers, we have a half dozen models, There
    > are probably more. I don't seek them out as a rebuild is
    > more expensive than a new wheel in many cases. Designers
    > had various things in mind when they made all the older
    > varied front hubs. Gone are hub oilers, 'heavy duty' models,
    > felt seals, etc. Now they seem to be more uniform, 10x10
    > 3/16 balls mostly.
    >
    > As I wrote earlier, just rebuild with clean grease, new
    > balls and be done with it.
    > --
    > Andrew Muzi
    > www.yellowjersey.org
    > Open every day since 1 April, 1971


    Yeah that is exactly what I did, just made sure I had the right number of
    bb's in there, cleaned the whole thing up and reassembled with a nice
    lithium grease.

    Ken
     
  9. hhu

    hhu Guest

    Doesn't lithium grease degrade rubber seals in bearings that have
    them?
     
  10. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    hhu wrote:
    > Doesn't lithium grease degrade rubber seals in bearings that have
    > them?


    What bearing has a rubber seal?

    Almost always Viton or some similar synthetic material
    impervious to oil.

    A seal can only work if it's wet - with either oil or water
    or coolant or whatever - - so making a bearing seal out of
    rubber seems silly if the maker intended grease or oil in
    the bearing!

    Moreover, much stuff that's commonly called 'rubber' isn't
    natural rubber at all - latex being unfriendly with oil.
    Modern 'rubber' pieces are likely to be butyl or Viton or
    some such and so impervious for most purposes.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  11. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:57:13 -0500, "Ken Marcet" <[email protected]>
    may have said:

    >I have this 20 inch wheel on the front of my recumbent, and to my surprise
    >it has ball bearings but they are not in a cage but just kind of sit in the
    >race. And I have tried to put a regular bearing in there but they do not fit
    >properly. Has any seen a hub like this? I think this must be a very cheaply
    >made hub.


    It's the most common design of hub bearing on bicycles. Cages are
    much less common than loose-ball.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
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