STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN....

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by kathy37, Feb 23, 2004.

  1. kathy37

    kathy37 Guest

    What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere? Examples
    would help. Confused but willing to learn.
     
    Tags:


  2. Carabelli

    Carabelli Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
    > Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.
    >

    It is when someone decides to misrepresent, exagerate, or lie about anothers opinion or position.
    Then they attack the misrepresented position because it is easier to knock down.

    example

    Jan - Feminism is one of the most important movements of the last century.

    carabelli - how could anyone support a bunch of castrating lesbians that want procreation to be
    accomplished only by artificial insemination?

    - Obiously there are very few, if any, feminists that can be characterised this way, I distorted her
    opinion to make it easier to discredit. Note - the orginal statement was not discredited.

    carabelli
     
  3. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    > What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
    > Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.

    It is also known as "false attribution." It is the logical fallacy in which you either misrepresent
    your opponent's position in a way to make it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick
    the most negative or weak part of the argument and attack it. Here's a primer:

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

    http://rous.redbarn.org/objectivism/Writing/DavidKing/GuideToObjectivism/ FALLACYS.HTM#208

    http://www.kcmetro.cc.mo.us/longview/CTAC/fallacy.htm#Straw%20Man

    http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#strawman

    http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

    http://datanation.com/fallacies/straw.htm

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  4. Jan

    Jan Guest

    >Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN....
    >From: Orac [email protected]
    >Date: 2/23/2004 6:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
    >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
    >> Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.
    >
    >It is also known as "false attribution.

    False accusations flow like water from the *gang*.

    Lying is rampant.

    >It is the logical fallacy in which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to
    >make it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most negative or weak part of
    >the argument and attack it.

    Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

    Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

    Jan
     
  5. Carabelli

    Carabelli Guest

    "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN.... From: Orac [email protected] Date: 2/23/2004 6:33 PM Pacific
    > >Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >
    > >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    > >
    > >> What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
    > >> Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.
    > >
    > >It is also known as "false attribution.
    >
    > False accusations flow like water from the *gang*.
    >
    > Lying is rampant.
    >
    > >It is the logical fallacy in which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to
    > >make it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most negative or weak part of
    > >the argument and attack it.
    >
    > Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.
    >
    > Strawman is used when they run out of lies.
    >
    > Jan
    >
    Jan, the only reason you have not been called on the "Strawman" argument is because you do it so
    poorly that it barely qualifies. Too bad they didn't offer debate during the first two years at your
    high school.

    carabelli

    shot fired over the bow or over the head?
     
  6. Carabelli

    Carabelli Guest

    "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote .............

    > >It is the logical fallacy in.............

    Janster, there really is no shame in momentarily repressing your 'shoot from the hip' style of
    ripping off a reply without thinking. If you ask, I'm certain there are several posters that will
    explain what "logical fallacy" means in simple terms.

    carabelli
     
  7. Peter Moran

    Peter Moran Guest

    "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.
    >
    > Strawman is used when they run out of lies.
    >
    > Jan

    Shush! The grown-ups are talking.

    Peter Moran
     
  8. Rich.

    Rich. Guest

    On 24 Feb 2004 05:04:27 GMT, [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    >
    >There are a few who sound like kids.
    >
    >No, make that brats.
    >
    >Lies galore, making them up as they go.

    Yep. And they are all atheists and Jews. Right Jan??

    Aloha,

    Rich
    >
    >Jan

    -------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance
     
  9. Anth

    Anth Guest

    (They are basically spoiling the newsgroup with stupid bickering arguments, with nothing to do with
    alt med at all) Anth

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
    > Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.
     
  10. Carabelli

    Carabelli Guest

    "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > (They are basically spoiling the newsgroup with stupid bickering
    arguments,
    > with nothing to do with alt med at all) Anth
    >
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
    > > Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.
    > >
    Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of hours, with two or three
    acknowledgements.
     
  11. Coleah

    Coleah Guest

    "carabelli" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of hours, with two or three
    > acknowledgements.

    Would that everyone would acknowledge to themselves where they may be assisting in keeping the
    insanity going....and then kindly stop responding to any posts about religion, who-did-what-to-whom
    and drop all of the smart aleck postings.

    Those who would not wish to drop all of it (freedom of choice) must realize it is causing an upset
    with readers. And in all fairness they need to preface future posts with their acknowledgement that
    they do know what they have to say is upsetting people, but that they feel they are more important
    than the whole and don't care who gets upset.

    It is easy sometimes to get sucked into bicker/banter. Much more difficult to see where, if they did
    not START it, they have certainly been keeping it going. It takes bigger people to jump off the
    snowball that is rolling downhill. Small people become meshed in the rolling while heading .....who
    knows where, but toward the bottom.

    I don't think anyone needs to do anything but jump off the snowball. Silence is a powerful
    communication of how one feels about others and themselves.

    Coleah
     
  12. "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Subject: Re: STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN.... From: Orac [email protected] Date: 2/23/2004 6:33 PM Pacific
    > >Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >
    > >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    > >
    > >> What in the heck is that in a debate/argument/whatever-you-want- to- call- this atmosphere?
    > >> Examples would help. Confused but willing to learn.
    > >
    > >It is also known as "false attribution.
    >
    > False accusations flow like water from the *gang*.

    Jan, you mis-read..it is aTTribution.....

    > Lying is rampant.

    Yes, Mistress of Posting...

    > >It is the logical fallacy in which you either misrepresent your opponent's position in a way to
    > >make it weaker and harder to defend or in which you berry-pick the most negative or weak part of
    > >the argument and attack it.
    >
    > Orac and all of the *gang* are guilty of exactly the above.

    Sure, Janny, sure.

    > Strawman is used when they run out of lies.

    What is going to happen when, one day, she wakes up and smlls the coffee and see how wrong she is?
     
  13. [email protected] wrote:

    Remember the scarecrow from "The Wizard of Oz"? (Or "The Wiz") Since a "straw man" has no substance,
    "he" cannot stand on his own, hence the reference to the logical fallacy of supposing that a minor
    discrepancy or an unrelated fact somehow undermines the legitimacy of a premise or statement. This
    perceived vulnerability is made possible by the fact that the chosen "flaws" frequently play upon
    common prejudice and are thus easy to "knock down" by the antagonist. This is not as blatant as the
    personal attack (ad hominem), but it can be equally destructive in an emotionally charged setting.
    Sometimes there is a fine line between the two, as in the following example. BTW, I posted my
    thoughts upon this matter on my own website, which the author of the following is kind enough to
    share with the interested reader:

    http://www.nmsr.org/controvy.htm

    (BTW, I personally think "turnabout" is always fair play)

    --
    _o Kristofer Dale, _ \<,_ ragged individualist, _____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...

    p.s. Learn and live, http://www.vitaletherapeutics.org
     
  14. Wb

    Wb Guest

    On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:20:10 GMT, "Mark Probert-February 23, 2004" <Mark
    [email protected]> wrote:

    >> Strawman is used when they run out of lies.
    >
    >What is going to happen when, one day, she wakes up and smlls the coffee and see how wrong she is?
    >
    >

    Massive MI or CVA would be my guess.
    --

    "I can dance on the head of a pin as well"
    -Yoshimo
     
  15. Wb

    Wb Guest

    On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:59:33 GMT, "Coleah" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"carabelli" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >> Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of hours, with two or three
    >> acknowledgements.
    >
    >Would that everyone would acknowledge to themselves where they may be assisting in keeping the
    >insanity going....and then kindly stop responding

    Not gonna happen.
    --

    "I can dance on the head of a pin as well"
    -Yoshimo
     
  16. Coleah

    Coleah Guest

    "WB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:59:33 GMT, "Coleah" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >"carabelli" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > >news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    > >> Well there is one poster here that could end all of it, in a matter of hours, with two or three
    > >> acknowledgements.

    > >Would that everyone would acknowledge to themselves where they may be assisting in keeping the
    > >insanity going....and then kindly stop
    responding

    > Not gonna happen.

    People enjoy cyber slapping and eye gouging other people too much to stop?
     
Loading...