stress relieving used wheels?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Alex Graham, Apr 22, 2003.

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  1. Alex Graham

    Alex Graham Guest

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  2. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Alex Graham writes:

    > Is it a good or bad idea to stress relieve a factory built wheel (that has probably never had
    > stress relieving treatment) but that has done 3k miles or so?

    This is a case where "better late than never" is correctly applied. Yes do it.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  3. On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Alex Graham wrote:
    > Is it a good or bad idea to stress relieve a factory built wheel (that has probably never had
    > stress relieving treatment) but that has done 3k miles or so? cheers,

    I guess it is too late. Provided you have not ridden on velvet, that has been taken care of already
    (and I hope you have, in the meantime, done touch-ups to keep your wheels as true as possible).

    Sergio Pisa
     
  4. Sergio SERVADIO wrote:

    > On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, Alex Graham wrote:
    >> Is it a good or bad idea to stress relieve a factory built wheel (that has probably never had
    >> stress relieving treatment) but that has done 3k miles or so? cheers,
    >
    > I guess it is too late. Provided you have not ridden on velvet, that has been taken care
    > of already

    Tension does not increase significantly in any of your spokes when you're riding. You need to
    stress-relieve by hand.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they are held by most to be the
    lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.
     
  5. Doc

    Doc Guest

    I think the 3k miles are the stress relieve treatment for your wheel. What do you think of that
    Jobst? Doc. <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    [email protected]
    > Alex Graham writes:
    >
    > > Is it a good or bad idea to stress relieve a factory built wheel (that has probably never had
    > > stress relieving treatment) but that has done 3k miles or so?
    >
    > This is a case where "better late than never" is correctly applied. Yes do it.
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  6. [email protected] wrote:

    > I think the 3k miles are the stress relieve treatment for your wheel. What do you think of that
    > Jobst? Doc.

    Well, I'm not Jobst, but what makes you think that riding on a wheel will stress relieve it?

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    It takes two to tell the truth: one to speak and one to hear.
     
  7. Ted Bennett

    Ted Bennett Guest

    Stress relieving involves a temporary and substantial increase in spoke tension. That doesn't happen
    in the course of normal riding, as the tension is highest at rest, with no load on the wheel.

    > I think the 3k miles are the stress relieve treatment for your wheel. What do you think of that
    > Jobst? Doc.

    > > > Is it a good or bad idea to stress relieve a factory built wheel (that has probably never had
    > > > stress relieving treatment) but that has done 3k miles or so?
    > >
    > > This is a case where "better late than never" is correctly applied. Yes do it.
    > >
    > > Jobst Brandt

    --
    Ted Bennett Portland OR
     
  8. Doc

    Doc Guest

    Riding on a wheel will stress relieve it? I think yes. True a wheel or build a wheel and don't
    stress relieve treatment on this wheel and go ride with
    it. You will heard many ``sounds'' of the spokes:that is stress relieve.Doc "Benjamin Lewis"
    <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news: [email protected]
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > > I think the 3k miles are the stress relieve treatment for your wheel. What do you think of that
    > > Jobst? Doc.
    >
    > Well, I'm not Jobst, but what makes you think that riding on a wheel will stress relieve it?
    >
    > --
    > Benjamin Lewis
    >
    > It takes two to tell the truth: one to speak and one to hear.
     
  9. Doc

    Doc Guest

    When you ride your bike,you are increasing the spoke tension. The guy on the saddle put a charge on
    the wheels,on the spokes.When you turn the handlebar you are putting a charge on the spokes.When you
    apply the brakes you put a charge on the spokes.Doc "Ted Bennett" <[email protected]> a écrit
    dans le message de news: [email protected]
    > Stress relieving involves a temporary and substantial increase in spoke tension. That
    > doesn't happen in the course of normal riding, as the tension is highest at rest, with no
    > load on the wheel.
    >
    > > I think the 3k miles are the stress relieve treatment for your wheel.
    What
    > > do you think of that Jobst? Doc.
    >
    > > > > Is it a good or bad idea to stress relieve a factory built wheel
    (that
    > > > > has probably never had stress relieving treatment) but that has done
    3k
    > > > > miles or so?
    > > >
    > > > This is a case where "better late than never" is correctly applied. Yes do it.
    > > >
    > > > Jobst Brandt
    >
    > --
    > Ted Bennett Portland OR
     
  10. [email protected] wrote:

    > Riding on a wheel will stress relieve it? I think yes. True a wheel or build a wheel and don't
    > stress relieve treatment on this wheel and go ride with it. You will heard many ``sounds'' of the
    > spokes:that is stress relieve.

    No, that is twisted spokes unwinding.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    On a paper submitted by a physicist colleague: "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --
    Wolfgang Pauli
     
  11. [email protected] wrote:

    > When you ride your bike,you are increasing the spoke tension.

    No, when you ride your bike, you are *decreasing* the spoke tension.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    On a paper submitted by a physicist colleague: "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --
    Wolfgang Pauli
     
  12. Stu

    Stu Guest

    >No, when you ride your bike, you are *decreasing* the spoke tension.
    its it, decreasing *average* tension??? otherwise you are say that if l load the wheel enough there
    will be no tension on the spokes

    and if riding on a wheel(back wheel more than the front, because it has the torque from pedaling,
    unless of course you have a disc front) doesn't stress relieve the wheel over time. then why stress
    relieve them by hand first?

    never built a wheel in my life have straighten a few
     
  13. [email protected] wrote:

    >> No, when you ride your bike, you are *decreasing* the spoke tension.
    > its it, decreasing *average* tension??? otherwise you are say that if l load the wheel enough
    > there will be no tension on the spokes

    That's right, if you load the wheel too much there will be no tension in the spokes (the ones
    between the hub and the road).

    There will be a very small increase in tension in all the other spokes, but not enough to stress
    relieve them.

    > and if riding on a wheel(back wheel more than the front, because it has the torque from pedaling,
    > unless of course you have a disc front) doesn't stress relieve the wheel over time. then why
    > stress relieve them by hand first?

    To prevent fatigue. See Jobst Brandt's book, _The Bicycle Wheel_, for more information.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    On a paper submitted by a physicist colleague: "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --
    Wolfgang Pauli
     
  14. Stu

    Stu Guest

    still don't get it what part of the spoke are you stress relieving? the way l see it, it is where
    the spokes cross each other, right? (looking at the pic on Mr sheldon browns page) ie bending the
    spokes so they sit well against each other while l agree that this may make a "wheel that is true
    and round, and will stay that way better than most machine made wheels" but l don't understand how
    it helps with fatigue. don't most spokes break at the nipple end?

    am dieing to go my spokes with and old crank, just trying to understand why
     
  15. [email protected] wrote:

    > still don't get it what part of the spoke are you stress relieving?

    The parts that are near their yield point.

    > the way l see it, it is where the spokes cross each other, right? (looking at the pic on Mr
    > sheldon browns page)

    You stress relieve by momentarily increasing tension in the spokes, so that the parts at high stress
    points will deform plastically and take a new set. When you remove the tension (i.e. let go of the
    spokes) these points will relax to lower stress.

    > ie bending the spokes so they sit well against each other while l agree that this may make a
    > "wheel that is true and round, and will stay that way better than most machine made wheels" but l
    > don't understand how it helps with fatigue. don't most spokes break at the nipple end?

    Yes, this is where most of the initial high stresses are.

    Have a look at Jobst Brandt's book, he explains it much better than I can.

    http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    On a paper submitted by a physicist colleague: "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --
    Wolfgang Pauli
     
  16. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Stu who? writes shyly:

    > still don't get it

    If you "don't get it" then why are you trying to tell others what stresses spokes sustain and how to
    stress relieve?

    > never built a wheel in my life have straighten a few

    That's not a good resume on which to build credibility in wheel building.

    > and if riding on a wheel(back wheel more than the front, because it has the torque from pedaling,
    > unless of course you have a disc front) doesn't stress relieve the wheel over time. then why
    > stress relieve them by hand first?

    I think you are there where wheel builders were many years ago. Stress and load cycles of spokes and
    how spokes fail is apparently not obvious. You could inform yourself on these matters at a bike shop
    that carries "the Bicycle Wheel" in their book department or you could order it from:

    http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html http://tinyurl.com/8yl8

    > what part of the spoke are you stress relieving?

    Those with residual high stresses, there where spokes generally fail because they are not
    stress relieved.

    > the way l see it, it is where the spokes cross each other, right?

    Wrong.

    > (looking at the pic on Mr sheldon browns page) ie bending the spokes so they sit well against each
    > other while l agree that this may make a "wheel that is true and round, and will stay that way
    > better than most machine made wheels"

    That is not the goal of his method.

    > but l don't understand how it helps with fatigue. don't most spokes break at the nipple end?

    That is because you don't understand what causes spoke failure. You ought to at least read the FAQ:

    http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8c.1.html

    > am dieing to go my spokes with and old crank, just trying to understand why

    You don't need an old crank to do that. Meanwhile, please take a course in English so your
    meandering thoughts are more readable. Nouveau spelling and punctuation is gauche and dilettantish.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  17. Chris B.

    Chris B. Guest

  18. Stu

    Stu Guest

    thanks, l understand what you are saying now just one more qestion is there anyway to tell if cheap
    wheels have been stress relieved or do you just asume that they haven't been?
     
  19. Stu

    Stu Guest

    >If you "don't get it" then why are you trying to tell others what stresses spokes sustain and how
    >to stress relieve?
    umm where?

    >> never built a wheel in my life have straighten a few
    >That's not a good resume on which to build credibility in wheel building
    umm where did l say l had any credibility as a wheel builder? the point of putting it there, was so
    people would know l have no idea what l was on about

    asking questions
    >just trying to understand why
    so sorry that my english offends you but thanks for your answers anyway
     
  20. bball

    bball Guest

    On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:16:20 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    clip -------
    >> am dieing to go my spokes with and old crank, just trying to understand why

    >You don't need an old crank to do that. Meanwhile, please take a course in English so your
    >meandering thoughts are more readable. Nouveau spelling and punctuation is gauche and dilettantish.
    >
    >Jobst Brandt jobst[email protected] Palo Alto CA

    After mention here of crank as stress relieving tool, I offer an alternative which I have found
    "delicious" for grabbing and twisting those spokes:

    A hickory handled tackhammer. The hammer head makes a nice T-wrench grip, length (10") is just right
    for leverage. The oval 1" handle provides a great shape and surface for the bending spokes.

    As with all wodden-handled tools, an infrequent linseed oil rubbing is a treat.

    Fits like a Brooks, and no skid.

    Bruce Ball
     
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