STUDY FINDS AMERICANS ARE TOO FAT

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Dr. Jai Maharaj, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. Study finds Americans are too fat

    411791, Study finds Americans are too fat

    Posted by Thankfully_in_Britain on 3/10/04 03:20 AM

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3496918.stm

    A new study in the United States says obesity is likely to
    become the country's biggest preventable killer. The
    research, by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
    is the latest work showing widespread weight gain among
    Americans of all ages.

    "We're just too fat," Health Secretary Tommy Thompson said
    at the unveiling of the study.

    It found that poor diet and lack of exercise caused 400,000
    deaths in the US in the year 2000. That figure represents a
    33% jump since 1990.

    If current trends continue, then obesity will shortly
    overtake smoking as the single biggest cause of preventable
    deaths in the United States.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411794, You know what that means ...

    Posted by BareKnuckledLiberal on 3/10/04 03:24 AM

    .. it means that fat people must be ridiculed, lectured, and
    humiliated at every opportunity.

    --bkl

    413097, don't forget smokers. nt

    Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 05:04 PM

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413175, Jeez

    Posted by PassingFair on 3/10/04 05:51 PM

    ..like they aren't already?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411796, It took a study to point that out?

    Posted by DarkSim on 3/10/04 03:30 AM

    My girlfriend is considered by studies as "fat" so don't
    assume i'm some kind of obese person hater.

    As an expat i can say that the U.S does have a reputation
    world wide of being a "fat" nation.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411799, This is all bullshit.

    Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 03:33 AM

    Fat 'fact' takes on life of its own

    Paul Campos, Rocky Mt. News

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/artic-
    le/0,1299,D...

    June 18, 2002

    An abiding weakness of the conventional wisdom is that, once
    a supposed fact has become part of that wisdom, it becomes
    almost impossible to dislodge it. Contemporary journalism
    contributes to this problem by relying on technologies that
    help ensure an assertion, once it is repeated enough times,
    will never be checked against the actual evidence. Consider
    for example the claim that fat kills 300,000 Americans per
    year, and is thus the nation's second-leading cause of
    premature death, trailing only cigarettes.

    A Lexis database search reveals that this "fact" has been
    repeated in more than 1,000 news stories over the past three
    years alone. Yet the evidence for this claim is so slim as
    to be practically nonexistent.

    As University of Virginia professor Glen Gaesser points out
    in the forthcoming revised edition of his book Big Fat Lies,
    the supposed source for this claim was a 1993 medical study
    that made no such assertion. That study attributed around
    300,000 extra deaths per year to sedentary lifestyle and
    poor dietary habits, not to weight, which was not even
    evaluated as a risk factor. Indeed the authors of the study,
    Michael McGinnis and William Foege, became so frustrated by
    the chronic miscitation of their data that in 1998 they
    published a letter in the New England Journal of Medicine,
    objecting to the misuse of their study.

    A year later the journal published an article which actually
    did assert that obesity causes approximately 300,000 deaths
    annually. This article, "Annual Deaths Attributable to
    Obesity in the United States," is a classic example of junk
    science at its worst. After calculating the death risk
    associated with various weight levels derived from six
    epidemiological studies, the authors employed the following
    assumption: "Our calculations assume that all excess
    mortality in obese people is due to their obesity" (emphasis
    added). That was, to put it mildly, a remarkable assumption.
    As Gaesser points out, "the authors made no attempt to
    determine whether other factors -- such as physical
    inactivity, low fitness levels, poor diet, risky weight loss
    practices, and less-than-adequate access to health care,
    just to name a few -- could have explained some, or all, of
    the excess mortality in fat people."

    In fact there is a great deal of evidence that such factors
    are far more relevant to mortality than weight. Indeed, long-
    term studies conducted at Dallas' Cooper Institute,
    involving tens of thousands of subjects tracked for a decade
    or more, have concluded that all of the excess mortality
    associated with increasing weight is accounted for by
    activity levels, not weight. These studies show moderately
    active fat people have far lower mortality rates than thin
    sedentary people, and essentially the same mortality rates
    as thin active people. In other words, adding just one
    variable to the mix -- activity levels -- eliminates fat as
    a risk factor (the activity levels associated with optimum
    mortality rates are quite modest -- a brisk daily half-hour
    walk will by itself put a person in these categories).

    Furthermore the 300,000-deaths-per-year figure was derived
    without taking into account factors such as yo-yo dieting
    and diet drug use, both of which have been shown to have
    devastating effects on health. Nor were variables such as
    class -- poor people die sooner than the well-off -- and
    social discrimination, which has been shown to have a very
    negative impact on health, taken into account. In short, the
    claim that fat causes 300,000 deaths per year should be
    dismissed as an assertion for which there is essentially no
    evidence. Journalists in particular ought to start noticing
    that fact, rather than endlessly reprinting the same piece
    of junk science.

    Paul Campos is a professor of law at the University of
    Colorado. He can be contacted at [email protected]

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412493, Thanks for posting this

    Posted by redqueen on 3/10/04 12:24 PM

    I've heard of similar studies as well that back up this
    assertion. IIRC a woman in CA filed a lawsuit after she
    tried to get a job as a fitness instructor, but was turned
    down for the job because she was overweight. They won the
    lawsuit, due to the fact that she didn't fit the image they
    wanted to project (that if you work out you will be thin).
    She was fit and qualified to lead an aerobics class but was
    still overweight.

    I think we need more focus on this. There are many young
    girls who will work out regularly, but if they don't get the
    flat tummy they expect then sometimes that leads to
    unhealthy ways of trying to achieve the look that's marketed
    as acceptable.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411800, DUH.......

    Posted by Joanne98 on 3/10/04 03:37 AM

    When did he figure this out. Oh I get it. It wasn't
    important to get Americans to quit eating fast food before.
    Now that we're going to privatize all of the health care
    system and the insurance companies have to pay, it's all of
    a sudden a problem. Well good luck. After a lifetime of
    hearing "junkfood" is healthy, fun and cool, it's going to
    be impossible to get them to eat right. Besides, vegetables
    are UNAMERICAN don't ya know. It's bigger than food, "it's
    their idenity. My SUV, my big Mac and my "merican" flag
    sticking out of my dumb fat ass. " Hey Betty, get the kids
    ready and let's go to the Wal Mart".

    That great "merican" store. Uggggghhhhhhhh

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411833, You have hit the button--that is my feeling also

    Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 04:45 AM

    I keep reading the word "preventable" disease, this one says
    "preventable killer" a lot more in the past year than I have
    before. I wonder why--and I think at some point these
    "slackers" who "refuse" to "prevent" a "possible disease"
    will be punished by insurance companies in some way-

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411847, I wonder if this is another Bushco "edited"
    report...

    Posted by zbird on 3/10/04 05:39 AM

    like the poverty/minority/access to health care study.

    Also, wait for the other shoe to drop. A 33% increase during
    the 1990's. It will all be Clinton's fault. The economy was
    booming, the US was at relative peace, and we got fat. I can
    see the spinning now.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411805, I predict this problem will be solved

    Posted by NJCher on 3/10/04 03:44 AM

    ...when the energy crisis gets worse. We do everything with
    fossil fuels. We don't even bend over to pick up a frickin'
    leaf. I've seen people actually get out a leaf blower to
    blow one leaf off a driveway!

    When it becomes cost prohibitive to keep a home at 70
    degrees, that's when we'll start burning off some of this
    fat.

    Cher

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411811, Bare assed liberal

    Posted by undergroundpanther on 3/10/04 03:52 AM

    . it means that fat people must be ridiculed, lectured, and
    humiliated at every opportunity.

    And bullies who think like this..need to be told to grow
    past that asshole they have got for a mouth.

    This "well meaning" call to abuse heavy folks is just an
    excuse to abuse people.Call it what it is,it does NOBODY
    good to belittle them for being heavy but it does an abuser
    good to shame them by calling them on the carpet over their
    crappy behaviors..

    I hate this kinda crap it's so republican of you.To hell
    with this fat scapegoating,You'd think people would grow
    beyond doing this kind of bigoted middle school
    mentality crap.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412445, I think that post you're responding to was meant to
    be satirical

    Posted by meluseth on 3/10/04 12:01 PM

    Pointing out that this info only provides ammo for
    those bullies.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411818, If they are so concerned about Americans being

    Posted by Piperay on 3/10/04 04:08 AM

    too fat how come they fight tooth and nail to keep
    nutritional information off of fast food menus???
    (rhetorical question) I know the answer, it's because the
    fast food industry lobbies to keep that from happening. They
    are afraid it might hurt sales if people knew how chucked
    full of fat and calories the crap is. :puke:

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412961, Bingo-they even changed the Pyramid, PAID to push
    cheese etc.

    Posted by dax on 3/10/04 03:54 PM

    My dad is a nutritionist who consults with the government
    and he was BURNIN Mad about the last food pyramid they set
    up-the meat and dairy industry totally revised what the
    scientists came up with to push meat and dairy higher up.
    Then the dairy people got a bunch of tax money to market
    cheese to fast food so they can add calories with double
    cheese this and stuffed crust that it is a propaganda
    campaign for everyone to take the guilt-you just don't
    exercise enough (well that is propbably true) but it doesn't
    excuse BushCo's deconstruction of science- that is a crime!
    Last week they declared there is "no difference" between
    wild salmon and hatchery fish so we don't have to protect
    them (look for major zoo-expansion- maybe we don't have to
    protect any habitat if we can raise enough wild animals!)

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413074, Are you saying people think fast food is not full of
    fat and calories?

    Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 04:47 PM

    don't be ridiculous, ever see someone eating a double bacon
    cheeseburger with the sauce dripping off their wrist
    drinking a diet coke? that's called a balanced meal.

    Can we stand up for individual responsibility, or are we a
    nation of dupes who will eat what we see on tv? Fat tastes
    good, pork fat is my favorite! I don't see a line of people
    at Mcburgers studying the nutritional info before ordering
    (it's there!). People make choices, and we are damn lucky to
    have the choice to be fat. Not many problems dealing with
    eating disorders like bulimia, anorexia, or obesity in sub-
    saharan countries or third world countries in general. Hell
    in this country we send our pets to the fat farm. Choice,
    people! We can choose what to eat and choose what to do or
    not do for physical activity. This rant is making me hungry!
    Gotta order a pepperoni,sausage, double cheese pizza AND
    have it delivered so I don't have to walk to my damn
    car..... hey, maybe I'll have them throw some of those yummy
    buffalo wings in too..

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413218, I don't believe it but

    Posted by Piperay on 3/10/04 06:16 PM

    apparently the fast food industry thinks that the public is
    stupid because they are the ones who are afraid it will lose
    them business if they give people the information. They are
    the ones who are stupid because people already know the
    stuff is fattening but they go there anyway. IF the
    government was serious they would give more than lip service
    to the issue, that's the point.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413297, like what? people want to eat that sh.. -stuff.

    Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 07:11 PM

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    411848, With meals like this...

    Posted by Dead_Parrot on 3/10/04 05:40 AM

    http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0744/index.html

    (Warning - Don't read while eating)

    ..it's not that surprising. Seriously, do people eat
    that stuff? (And I thought adding parmesan to roast
    parsnips was bad.)

    :puke:

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412478, It's real. I have seen it.

    Posted by BiggJawn on 3/10/04 12:14 PM

    "Over a POUND of FOOD!"

    and they have other versions of it, too, like 1/2 a chicken,
    and 3 hamburger patties.

    Lance Armstrong couldn't burn that much saturated fat
    climbing Mt. Ventoux AND Col du Calibre!

    Oh, BTW, I finished up my sushi lunch while looking at that
    site. I have a strong constitution. :7

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412761, that is wonderful--it made me laugh until i cried!!!

    Posted by frank frankly on 3/10/04 02:08 PM

    i passed it along immediately...

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412234, How many millions were spent discovering this, or
    did they just

    Posted by Mayberry Machiavelli on 3/10/04 10:47 AM

    send the college intern down to the local shopping mall to
    look around and snap some pics?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412535, Our Food

    Posted by DesignGirl on 3/10/04 12:42 PM

    I have studied nutrition for many years after my doctors
    couldn't help with chronic illness with my son. If people
    really know what is in the food or understood how much food
    effects every part of our life, maybe they would force the
    industry to do something about it.

    Right now I pay more for almost all my organic food(even at
    a local coop). Our food has so much artificial, unnatural
    crap in it, no wonder we have so many new diseases like ADD
    and Obesity. What happened to growing food and eating it in
    its basic form.

    It is sad that we have so many drugs to help with these
    issues, and most of it could be helped with a better
    understanding and willingness to change the food. It changed
    my sons life.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412591, So true!

    Posted by rawtribe on 3/10/04 01:12 PM

    When the calories in your diet are nutrient dense all
    aspects of your health will improve. This comes from eating
    low on the food chain.

    http://www.pcrm.org

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413022, Exactly what part of

    Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 04:31 PM

    after controlling for activity levels, there is no
    relationship between fat and disease is it that you don't
    understand? Healthy eating and exercise will make everyone
    healthier, not necessarily (very much) thinner.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412590, They could have just looked...

    Posted by Thankfully_in_Britain on 3/10/04 01:11 PM

    at the guy unveiling the study, Tommy Thompson. He ain't
    exactly Mr skinny is he?

    Here's another article on the matter I've found about
    somebody who's written a book on obesity

    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,907-
    894,00.html

    The statistics were shocking - 26 per cent of Americans are
    now clinically obese - but more shocking still was the fact
    that people were, and continue to be, in denial of this
    fact. For the middle classes in particular, any discussion
    of obesity, or even fat, soon leads to aesthetic and gender
    issues - the idea that talking about it will give children
    'low self-esteem' or, worse, anorexia.

    Doctors also remain either in ignorance or outright denial
    about the dangers of obesity to the poor and the young. A
    patient earning more than $50,000 is more likely to be
    advised to lose weight than one with a lower income. Since
    it is the urban poor who suffer the highest rates of obesity
    and consequent ill-health, this is worrying. The fat just
    get sicker and sicker. In the US, the annual cost of
    treating diabetics, the majority of new cases being a direct
    result of excess weight, stands at more than $100 billion.
    Between 1988 and 1994, 39 million working days were lost due
    to obesity, with a value of $3.9 billion to the economy.

    'Most of us are fat because we are slothful and gluttonous,'
    he says. 'People don't want to hear that. In the course of
    researching my book, I came to believe that, morally, over-
    eating is wrong. Look at Bosch's depiction of gluttony: a
    man is eating; his child is tugging at his shirt; another
    man sits at the end of the table with nothing on his plate;
    his wife is waiting at the door for his next demand. Act the
    glutton, and you're not only worshipping your belly as a
    false god; you're involved in the dereliction of your
    secular duties as well. You're not taking care of your
    child; you're taking the food off somebody else's plate;
    you're neglecting your duties at work; you're not taking
    care of your body.'

    That Critser is a liberal and a Democrat, rather than some
    toothy bible basher from the Mid-West, somehow serves to
    make his assertions all the more forceful. 'All of this does
    have spiritual, religious overtones,' he says. 'But I think
    we can agree that, even in a secular sense, these things are
    morally wrong. I come from a generation that wants to avoid
    talking about moral absolutes, preferring instead to put the
    emphasis always on context. But I now think that there ARE
    absolutes, and the question is: what is a compassionate way
    to educate people about them? The people who accuse me of
    wanting to stigmatise fat people are just confused; I want
    to stigmatise gluttony, not the fat per se.'

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    412750, Again, the focus is on fat, and not quality of food
    or exercise

    Posted by redqueen on 3/10/04 02:04 PM

    There IS a difference.

    Doesn't anyone wonder WHY the urban poor have the highest
    rates of obesity? JUNK FOOD IS CHEAP.

    *sigh*

    I should just give up now.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413005, Full of shit

    Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 04:17 PM

    Sorry, but the focus should be on exercise, not looks.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413095, on looks? no correlation between physical
    activity/diet and fat levels?

    Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 05:02 PM

    How many marathon runners do you know who are obese? Why is
    there an assumption that this is about looks?

    How to lose weight= eat less calories than you use. Not
    rocket science.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413250, More bullshit

    Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 06:36 PM

    Eat less, and your systems automatically adjust to 'need'
    less. Whether you can get ahead of the game depends 100% on
    factors beyond your control. You'd know that if you knew
    anything about complex systems with feedback loops that have
    no resemblance to bank accounts.

    It's all about looks--the dull normals who aren't fat, but
    have lives of no particular distinction can always pat
    themselves on the back for something. (Do you know any power
    lifters who are skinny?)

    The real thermodynamic balance of human metabolism is this.

    C - N - S - I - H - E - V = 0

    C = calories eaten N = non-absorbed calories excreted in
    bowels S = calories stored I = calories calories used
    involuntarily (muscle maintenance, involuntary motion) H =
    calories used for heat generation V = calories used
    voluntarily (exercise, for example) E = calories excreted
    in urine (Examples: fat converted to glucose in the liver
    and excreted in the urine, incompletely burned
    triglycerides which are excreted in the urine, and albumin
    excreted in the urine)

    It should be noted that there is 'manual' control only on C
    and V. People who think of human metabolism as a bank
    account are willfully ignorant that these other variables
    adjust automatically within an active control system. All
    adjust when some of them change. When C and V are changed
    'manually', there may be permanent alteration to the control
    system (as in long-term dieting).

    The amount of energy stored is not 'whatever is left over'.
    The body actively stores or mobilizes energy from its energy
    store. If there is a resulting energy deficit, it tries to
    increase C, causes a reduction in I, H, and E, and even
    actively prevents V. If there is an energy surplus, it tries
    to decrease C, increases I and H, encourages V, and, as a
    last resort, increases E.

    The control system for these actions is decentralized. So,
    it is possible for the energy store to believe that it needs
    to increase S, while simultaneously, the liver believes that
    it is necessary to increase E. This leaves I, H, and V at an
    extreme disadvantage.

    If an individual is not lethargic and ravenous, then the
    control system is notimbalanced, but may have a different
    equilibrium than the average. One may wish that the
    equilibrium were different, but the system is not amenable
    to manual control (especially by manually varying C), but
    there are strict limits to an individual's ability to
    change it.

    Decreasing C (dieting) has been shown to cause a long- term
    decrease in H and a long term increase in S, and to prevent
    I from increasing when V is increased. Millions of dieters
    have experienced this. Obesity researchers

    try to do something real with their lives instead of cheap
    shots boosting their self-image at the expense of people who
    are different.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413099, This is breaking news?

    Posted by Concerned GA Voter on 3/10/04 05:04 PM

    All you had to do is ask my ass cheeks........

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413216, People do not KNOW how to eat healthy

    Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 06:12 PM

    and their satiation point is far above what it should be.
    Huge servings are a pride and joy and denote abundance and
    wealth--continuous snacking on sugar laden cakes and candies
    is expected--vendor machines are all over the schools.

    When I went to school, there were no machines that contained
    juice, candy, potatoe chips, cookies and other little
    treats. We survived and we were not a fat generation.

    Walk down the cereal aisle and count, if you are as
    compulsive as I am, the number of cereals there-more than
    two hundred--all jumping with appealing cartoons, Nascar
    cars and bright color and beckoning to the little children-
    every single one of them contains added sugar-- a lot of it.
    If it were not for the added vitamins, it would really be a
    worthless food. Yet, we are told that cereal is a good thing
    to feed your child and yourself. Add some milk to the fruity
    o's and you get the heart award. Many advertise they are
    "heart healthy" and that is because they are low fat. Most
    breads and grains are, but it says nothing about the
    deteriment to the health of the sugar added to almost
    everything on the supermarket shelf .

    The entire food corporate industry is dedicated to selling
    food to the American people any way they can sell
    it. Mostly advertising appeals to those who are fulfilling
    an image of the concerned mom who wants to feed her
    child the best there is. We think it just fine to eat
    and eat and eat because they tell us, subliminally, it
    is so wonderful to do so.

    And then we eat the sugar and indeed, feel wonderful.

    In other countries, this is not the case, but in America,
    and it is quite obvious we do have a lot of fat people
    here,they is no denying that, it is considered the normal
    way of eating. It is a constant eating and eating and giving
    the stomach little rest.

    One does not have a normal portion of french fries,
    containing maybe half a cup--you want, and think you deserve
    for your money, three times the serving size. And soon, even
    that does not "fill you up"

    Most people do not realize what a 'serving" consists of.
    Most cannot at this point discipline themself to eat only
    one serving of anything.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413272, I'm not sure if you're giving people too much
    credit,

    Posted by Robb on 3/10/04 06:50 PM

    or not enough. I think it's just like smoking. I don't know
    a single smoker who doesn't know it's just plain bad for
    you; I can't imagine there are consumers who think a big ol'
    drippy cheeseburger and fries is good for you.

    It's just both groups are very, very good at not
    thinking about it while they're partaking. And society
    has largely been pretty good at not pointing it out to
    them in the moment.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413310, Yes, that could be one way to look at it, but

    Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 07:24 PM

    I was shocked when I found out what a "serving" was. It is
    half a cup, usually. That is, when one sees five servings of
    bread, pasta or whatever starches on the food pyramid, that
    is a half cup serving. If you eat two cups of pasta at one
    sitting, which I think is pretty much what people pile on
    their plate that is already four servings for the day. If
    the daily requirement on that pyramid is five servings and
    you had two pieces of toast in the morning, and bread with
    the pasta, and a sandwich for supper, you are way over the
    guidelines not to mention any starchy vegetables that you
    may have had, like potatoe salad with the sandwich. Now try
    measuring out half a cup of pasta and being satisfied with
    it. That is what I mean--we get a satiation tolerance far
    over what is recommended. In other words, if we do not have
    two cups of pasta we feel cheated.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    413317, Good ol' Corporate Amerikkka...

    Posted by I m With Stupid on 3/10/04 07:30 PM

    Look, advertising works. It's as simple as that. The
    corporate shills love to go on about Personal
    Responsibility, but the sad fact is that we're raised from
    infancy being told by business what to eat, what to drink,
    what to wear, what to watch, what to do, and what to think.
    It really isn't surprising that when they tell us to spend
    our wealth on poison and dump it into our bodies, the masses
    respond like trained sheep.

    Have you heard the latest? The neocons are arguing in the
    senate, right now, that we need a law protecting Big Heart
    Attack from legal action. Well, hell, I wonder who paid
    for that...?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    End of forwarded messages

    More here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/dub-
    oard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=

    Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti

    Panchaang for 20 Phalgun 5104, Wednesday, March 10, 2004:

    Shubhanu Nama Samvatsare Uttarayane Moksh Ritau Kumbh Mase
    Krshn Pakshe Buddh Vasara Yuktayam Svati-Vaishakh Nakshatr
    Vyaghat Yog Balav-Taitil Karan Chaturthi-Panchami Yam Tithau

    Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

    Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
    http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org

    The truth about Islam and Muslims
    http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

    o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used
    for the educational purposes of research and open
    discussion. The contents of this post may not have
    been authored by, and do not necessarily represent
    the opinion of the poster. The contents are protected
    by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of
    copyrighted works. o If you send private e-mail to
    me, it will likely not be read, considered or
    answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
    current e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice
    telephone number. o Posted for information and
    discussion. Views expressed by others are not
    necessarily those of the poster.
     
    Tags:


  2. Eugene Kent

    Eugene Kent Guest

    Why do you think everyone calls Americans fat-heads?

    "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:health-
    [email protected]
    > Study finds Americans are too fat
    >
    > 411791, Study finds Americans are too fat
    >
    > Posted by Thankfully_in_Britain on 3/10/04 03:20 AM
    >
    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3496918.stm
    >
    > A new study in the United States says obesity is likely to
    > become the country's biggest preventable killer. The
    > research, by the Centers for Disease Control and
    > Prevention, is the latest work showing widespread weight
    > gain among Americans of all ages.
    >
    > "We're just too fat," Health Secretary Tommy Thompson said
    > at the unveiling of the study.
    >
    > It found that poor diet and lack of exercise caused
    > 400,000 deaths in the US in the year 2000. That figure
    > represents a 33% jump since 1990.
    >
    > If current trends continue, then obesity will shortly
    > overtake smoking as the single biggest cause of
    > preventable deaths in the United States.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411794, You know what that means ...
    >
    > Posted by BareKnuckledLiberal on 3/10/04 03:24 AM
    >
    > .. it means that fat people must be ridiculed, lectured,
    > and humiliated at every opportunity.
    >
    > --bkl
    >
    > 413097, don't forget smokers. nt
    >
    > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 05:04 PM
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413175, Jeez
    >
    > Posted by PassingFair on 3/10/04 05:51 PM
    >
    > ..like they aren't already?
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411796, It took a study to point that out?
    >
    > Posted by DarkSim on 3/10/04 03:30 AM
    >
    > My girlfriend is considered by studies as "fat" so don't
    > assume i'm some kind of obese person hater.
    >
    > As an expat i can say that the U.S does have a reputation
    > world wide of being a "fat" nation.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411799, This is all bullshit.
    >
    > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 03:33 AM
    >
    > Fat 'fact' takes on life of its own
    >
    > Paul Campos, Rocky Mt. News
    >
    > http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/art-
    > icle/0,1299,D...
    >
    > June 18, 2002
    >
    > An abiding weakness of the conventional wisdom is that,
    > once a supposed fact has become part of that wisdom, it
    > becomes almost impossible to dislodge it. Contemporary
    > journalism contributes to this problem by relying on
    > technologies that help ensure an assertion, once it is
    > repeated enough times, will never be checked against the
    > actual evidence. Consider for example the claim that fat
    > kills 300,000 Americans per year, and is thus the nation's
    > second-leading cause of premature death, trailing only
    > cigarettes.
    >
    > A Lexis database search reveals that this "fact" has been
    > repeated in more than 1,000 news stories over the past
    > three years alone. Yet the evidence for this claim is so
    > slim as to be practically nonexistent.
    >
    > As University of Virginia professor Glen Gaesser points
    > out in the forthcoming revised edition of his book Big Fat
    > Lies, the supposed source for this claim was a 1993
    > medical study that made no such assertion. That study
    > attributed around 300,000 extra deaths per year to
    > sedentary lifestyle and poor dietary habits, not to
    > weight, which was not even evaluated as a risk factor.
    > Indeed the authors of the study, Michael McGinnis and
    > William Foege, became so frustrated by the chronic
    > miscitation of their data that in 1998 they published a
    > letter in the New England Journal of Medicine, objecting
    > to the misuse of their study.
    >
    > A year later the journal published an article which
    > actually did assert that obesity causes approximately
    > 300,000 deaths annually. This article, "Annual Deaths
    > Attributable to Obesity in the United States," is a
    > classic example of junk science at its worst. After
    > calculating the death risk associated with various weight
    > levels derived from six epidemiological studies, the
    > authors employed the following assumption: "Our
    > calculations assume that all excess mortality in obese
    > people is due to their obesity" (emphasis added). That
    > was, to put it mildly, a remarkable assumption. As Gaesser
    > points out, "the authors made no attempt to determine
    > whether other factors -- such as physical inactivity, low
    > fitness levels, poor diet, risky weight loss practices,
    > and less-than-adequate access to health care, just to name
    > a few -- could have explained some, or all, of the excess
    > mortality in fat people."
    >
    > In fact there is a great deal of evidence that such
    > factors are far more relevant to mortality than weight.
    > Indeed, long-term studies conducted at Dallas' Cooper
    > Institute, involving tens of thousands of subjects tracked
    > for a decade or more, have concluded that all of the
    > excess mortality associated with increasing weight is
    > accounted for by activity levels, not weight. These
    > studies show moderately active fat people have far lower
    > mortality rates than thin sedentary people, and
    > essentially the same mortality rates as thin active
    > people. In other words, adding just one variable to the
    > mix -- activity levels -- eliminates fat as a risk factor
    > (the activity levels associated with optimum mortality
    > rates are quite modest -- a brisk daily half-hour walk
    > will by itself put a person in these categories).
    >
    > Furthermore the 300,000-deaths-per-year figure was derived
    > without taking into account factors such as yo-yo dieting
    > and diet drug use, both of which have been shown to have
    > devastating effects on health. Nor were variables such as
    > class -- poor people die sooner than the well-off -- and
    > social discrimination, which has been shown to have a very
    > negative impact on health, taken into account. In short,
    > the claim that fat causes 300,000 deaths per year should
    > be dismissed as an assertion for which there is
    > essentially no evidence. Journalists in particular ought
    > to start noticing that fact, rather than endlessly
    > reprinting the same piece of junk science.
    >
    > Paul Campos is a professor of law at the University of
    > Colorado. He can be contacted at [email protected]
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412493, Thanks for posting this
    >
    > Posted by redqueen on 3/10/04 12:24 PM
    >
    > I've heard of similar studies as well that back up this
    > assertion. IIRC a woman in CA filed a lawsuit after she
    > tried to get a job as a fitness instructor, but was turned
    > down for the job because she was overweight. They won the
    > lawsuit, due to the fact that she didn't fit the image
    > they wanted to project (that if you work out you will be
    > thin). She was fit and qualified to lead an aerobics class
    > but was still overweight.
    >
    > I think we need more focus on this. There are many young
    > girls who will work out regularly, but if they don't get
    > the flat tummy they expect then sometimes that leads to
    > unhealthy ways of trying to achieve the look that's
    > marketed as acceptable.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411800, DUH.......
    >
    > Posted by Joanne98 on 3/10/04 03:37 AM
    >
    > When did he figure this out. Oh I get it. It wasn't
    > important to get Americans to quit eating fast food
    > before. Now that we're going to privatize all of the
    > health care system and the insurance companies have to
    > pay, it's all of a sudden a problem. Well good luck.
    > After a lifetime of hearing "junkfood" is healthy, fun
    > and cool, it's going to be impossible to get them to eat
    > right. Besides, vegetables are UNAMERICAN don't ya know.
    > It's bigger than food, "it's their idenity. My SUV, my
    > big Mac and my "merican" flag sticking out of my dumb fat
    > ass. " Hey Betty, get the kids ready and let's go to the
    > Wal Mart".
    >
    > That great "merican" store. Uggggghhhhhhhh
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411833, You have hit the button--that is my feeling also
    >
    > Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 04:45 AM
    >
    > I keep reading the word "preventable" disease, this one
    > says "preventable killer" a lot more in the past year
    > than I have before. I wonder why--and I think at some
    > point these "slackers" who "refuse" to "prevent" a
    > "possible disease" will be punished by insurance
    > companies in some way-
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411847, I wonder if this is another Bushco "edited"
    > report...
    >
    > Posted by zbird on 3/10/04 05:39 AM
    >
    > like the poverty/minority/access to health care study.
    >
    > Also, wait for the other shoe to drop. A 33% increase
    > during the 1990's. It will all be Clinton's fault. The
    > economy was booming, the US was at relative peace, and we
    > got fat. I can see the spinning now.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411805, I predict this problem will be solved
    >
    > Posted by NJCher on 3/10/04 03:44 AM
    >
    > ...when the energy crisis gets worse. We do everything
    > with fossil fuels. We don't even bend over to pick up a
    > frickin' leaf. I've seen people actually get out a leaf
    > blower to blow one leaf off a driveway!
    >
    > When it becomes cost prohibitive to keep a home at 70
    > degrees, that's when we'll start burning off some of
    > this fat.
    >
    > Cher
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411811, Bare assed liberal
    >
    > Posted by undergroundpanther on 3/10/04 03:52 AM
    >
    > . it means that fat people must be ridiculed, lectured,
    > and humiliated at every opportunity.
    >
    > And bullies who think like this..need to be told to grow
    > past that asshole they have got for a mouth.
    >
    > This "well meaning" call to abuse heavy folks is just an
    > excuse to abuse people.Call it what it is,it does NOBODY
    > good to belittle them for being heavy but it does an
    > abuser good to shame them by calling them on the carpet
    > over their crappy behaviors..
    >
    > I hate this kinda crap it's so republican of you.To hell
    > with this fat scapegoating,You'd think people would grow
    > beyond doing this kind of bigoted middle school
    > mentality crap.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412445, I think that post you're responding to was meant
    > to be satirical
    >
    > Posted by meluseth on 3/10/04 12:01 PM
    >
    > Pointing out that this info only provides ammo for those
    > bullies.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411818, If they are so concerned about Americans being
    >
    > Posted by Piperay on 3/10/04 04:08 AM
    >
    > too fat how come they fight tooth and nail to keep
    > nutritional information off of fast food menus???
    > (rhetorical question) I know the answer, it's because the
    > fast food industry lobbies to keep that from happening.
    > They are afraid it might hurt sales if people knew how
    > chucked full of fat and calories the crap is. :puke:
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412961, Bingo-they even changed the Pyramid, PAID to push
    > cheese etc.
    >
    > Posted by dax on 3/10/04 03:54 PM
    >
    > My dad is a nutritionist who consults with the government
    > and he was BURNIN Mad about the last food pyramid they set
    > up-the meat and dairy industry totally revised what the
    > scientists came up with to push meat and dairy higher up.
    > Then the dairy people got a bunch of tax money to market
    > cheese to fast food so they can add calories with double
    > cheese this and stuffed crust that it is a propaganda
    > campaign for everyone to take the guilt-you just don't
    > exercise enough (well that is propbably true) but it
    > doesn't excuse BushCo's deconstruction of science- that is
    > a crime! Last week they declared there is "no difference"
    > between wild salmon and hatchery fish so we don't have to
    > protect them (look for major zoo-expansion- maybe we don't
    > have to protect any habitat if we can raise enough wild
    > animals!)
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413074, Are you saying people think fast food is not full
    > of fat and calories?
    >
    > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 04:47 PM
    >
    > don't be ridiculous, ever see someone eating a double
    > bacon cheeseburger with the sauce dripping off their wrist
    > drinking a diet coke? that's called a balanced meal.
    >
    > Can we stand up for individual responsibility, or are we a
    > nation of dupes who will eat what we see on tv? Fat tastes
    > good, pork fat is my favorite! I don't see a line of
    > people at Mcburgers studying the nutritional info before
    > ordering (it's there!). People make choices, and we are
    > damn lucky to have the choice to be fat. Not many problems
    > dealing with eating disorders like bulimia, anorexia, or
    > obesity in sub-saharan countries or third world countries
    > in general. Hell in this country we send our pets to the
    > fat farm. Choice, people! We can choose what to eat and
    > choose what to do or not do for physical activity. This
    > rant is making me hungry! Gotta order a pepperoni,sausage,
    > double cheese pizza AND have it delivered so I don't have
    > to walk to my damn car..... hey, maybe I'll have them
    > throw some of those yummy buffalo wings in too..
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413218, I don't believe it but
    >
    > Posted by Piperay on 3/10/04 06:16 PM
    >
    > apparently the fast food industry thinks that the public
    > is stupid because they are the ones who are afraid it will
    > lose them business if they give people the information.
    > They are the ones who are stupid because people already
    > know the stuff is fattening but they go there anyway. IF
    > the government was serious they would give more than lip
    > service to the issue, that's the point.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413297, like what? people want to eat that sh.. -stuff.
    >
    > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 07:11 PM
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411848, With meals like this...
    >
    > Posted by Dead_Parrot on 3/10/04 05:40 AM
    >
    > http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0744/index.html
    >
    > (Warning - Don't read while eating)
    >
    > ..it's not that surprising. Seriously, do people eat that
    > stuff? (And I thought adding parmesan to roast parsnips
    > was bad.)
    >
    > :puke:
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412478, It's real. I have seen it.
    >
    > Posted by BiggJawn on 3/10/04 12:14 PM
    >
    > "Over a POUND of FOOD!"
    >
    > and they have other versions of it, too, like 1/2 a
    > chicken, and 3 hamburger patties.
    >
    > Lance Armstrong couldn't burn that much saturated fat
    > climbing Mt. Ventoux AND Col du Calibre!
    >
    > Oh, BTW, I finished up my sushi lunch while looking at
    > that site. I have a strong constitution. :7
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412761, that is wonderful--it made me laugh until i
    > cried!!!
    >
    > Posted by frank frankly on 3/10/04 02:08 PM
    >
    > i passed it along immediately...
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412234, How many millions were spent discovering this, or
    > did they just
    >
    > Posted by Mayberry Machiavelli on 3/10/04 10:47 AM
    >
    > send the college intern down to the local shopping mall to
    > look around and snap some pics?
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412535, Our Food
    >
    > Posted by DesignGirl on 3/10/04 12:42 PM
    >
    > I have studied nutrition for many years after my doctors
    > couldn't help with chronic illness with my son. If people
    > really know what is in the food or understood how much
    > food effects every part of our life, maybe they would
    > force the industry to do something about it.
    >
    > Right now I pay more for almost all my organic food(even
    > at a local coop). Our food has so much artificial,
    > unnatural crap in it, no wonder we have so many new
    > diseases like ADD and Obesity. What happened to growing
    > food and eating it in its basic form.
    >
    > It is sad that we have so many drugs to help with these
    > issues, and most of it could be helped with a better
    > understanding and willingness to change the food. It
    > changed my sons life.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412591, So true!
    >
    > Posted by rawtribe on 3/10/04 01:12 PM
    >
    > When the calories in your diet are nutrient dense all
    > aspects of your health will improve. This comes from
    > eating low on the food chain.
    >
    > http://www.pcrm.org
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413022, Exactly what part of
    >
    > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 04:31 PM
    >
    > after controlling for activity levels, there is no
    > relationship between fat and disease is it that you don't
    > understand? Healthy eating and exercise will make everyone
    > healthier, not necessarily (very much) thinner.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412590, They could have just looked...
    >
    > Posted by Thankfully_in_Britain on 3/10/04 01:11 PM
    >
    > at the guy unveiling the study, Tommy Thompson. He ain't
    > exactly Mr skinny is he?
    >
    > Here's another article on the matter I've found about
    > somebody who's written a book on obesity
    >
    > http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,9-
    > 07894,00.html
    >
    > The statistics were shocking - 26 per cent of Americans
    > are now clinically obese - but more shocking still was the
    > fact that people were, and continue to be, in denial of
    > this fact. For the middle classes in particular, any
    > discussion of obesity, or even fat, soon leads to
    > aesthetic and gender issues - the idea that talking about
    > it will give children 'low self-esteem' or, worse,
    > anorexia.
    >
    > Doctors also remain either in ignorance or outright denial
    > about the dangers of obesity to the poor and the young. A
    > patient earning more than $50,000 is more likely to be
    > advised to lose weight than one with a lower income. Since
    > it is the urban poor who suffer the highest rates of
    > obesity and consequent ill-health, this is worrying. The
    > fat just get sicker and sicker. In the US, the annual cost
    > of treating diabetics, the majority of new cases being a
    > direct result of excess weight, stands at more than $100
    > billion. Between 1988 and 1994, 39 million working days
    > were lost due to obesity, with a value of $3.9 billion to
    > the economy.
    >
    > 'Most of us are fat because we are slothful and
    > gluttonous,' he says. 'People don't want to hear that. In
    > the course of researching my book, I came to believe that,
    > morally, over-eating is wrong. Look at Bosch's depiction
    > of gluttony: a man is eating; his child is tugging at his
    > shirt; another man sits at the end of the table with
    > nothing on his plate; his wife is waiting at the door for
    > his next demand. Act the glutton, and you're not only
    > worshipping your belly as a false god; you're involved in
    > the dereliction of your secular duties as well. You're not
    > taking care of your child; you're taking the food off
    > somebody else's plate; you're neglecting your duties at
    > work; you're not taking care of your body.'
    >
    > That Critser is a liberal and a Democrat, rather than some
    > toothy bible basher from the Mid-West, somehow serves to
    > make his assertions all the more forceful. 'All of this
    > does have spiritual, religious overtones,' he says. 'But I
    > think we can agree that, even in a secular sense, these
    > things are morally wrong. I come from a generation that
    > wants to avoid talking about moral absolutes, preferring
    > instead to put the emphasis always on context. But I now
    > think that there ARE absolutes, and the question is: what
    > is a compassionate way to educate people about them? The
    > people who accuse me of wanting to stigmatise fat people
    > are just confused; I want to stigmatise gluttony, not the
    > fat per se.'
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412750, Again, the focus is on fat, and not quality of
    > food or exercise
    >
    > Posted by redqueen on 3/10/04 02:04 PM
    >
    > There IS a difference.
    >
    > Doesn't anyone wonder WHY the urban poor have the highest
    > rates of obesity? JUNK FOOD IS CHEAP.
    >
    > *sigh*
    >
    > I should just give up now.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413005, Full of shit
    >
    > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 04:17 PM
    >
    > Sorry, but the focus should be on exercise, not looks.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413095, on looks? no correlation between physical
    > activity/diet and fat levels?
    >
    > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 05:02 PM
    >
    > How many marathon runners do you know who are obese? Why
    > is there an assumption that this is about looks?
    >
    > How to lose weight= eat less calories than you use. Not
    > rocket science.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413250, More bullshit
    >
    > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 06:36 PM
    >
    > Eat less, and your systems automatically adjust to 'need'
    > less. Whether you can get ahead of the game depends 100%
    > on factors beyond your control. You'd know that if you
    > knew anything about complex systems with feedback loops
    > that have no resemblance to bank accounts.
    >
    > It's all about looks--the dull normals who aren't fat, but
    > have lives of no particular distinction can always pat
    > themselves on the back for something. (Do you know any
    > power lifters who are skinny?)
    >
    > The real thermodynamic balance of human metabolism
    > is this.
    >
    > C - N - S - I - H - E - V = 0
    >
    > C = calories eaten N = non-absorbed calories excreted in
    > bowels S = calories stored I = calories calories used
    > involuntarily (muscle maintenance, involuntary motion) H =
    > calories used for heat generation V = calories used
    > voluntarily (exercise, for example) E = calories excreted
    > in urine (Examples: fat converted to glucose in the liver
    > and excreted in the urine, incompletely burned
    > triglycerides which are excreted in the urine, and albumin
    > excreted in the urine)
    >
    > It should be noted that there is 'manual' control only on
    > C and V. People who think of human metabolism as a bank
    > account are willfully ignorant that these other variables
    > adjust automatically within an active control system. All
    > adjust when some of them change. When C and V are changed
    > 'manually', there may be permanent alteration to the
    > control system (as in long-term dieting).
    >
    > The amount of energy stored is not 'whatever is left
    > over'. The body actively stores or mobilizes energy from
    > its energy store. If there is a resulting energy deficit,
    > it tries to increase C, causes a reduction in I, H, and E,
    > and even actively prevents V. If there is an energy
    > surplus, it tries to decrease C, increases I and H,
    > encourages V, and, as a last resort, increases E.
    >
    > The control system for these actions is decentralized. So,
    > it is possible for the energy store to believe that it
    > needs to increase S, while simultaneously, the liver
    > believes that it is necessary to increase E. This leaves
    > I, H, and V at an extreme disadvantage.
    >
    > If an individual is not lethargic and ravenous, then the
    > control system is notimbalanced, but may have a different
    > equilibrium than the average. One may wish that the
    > equilibrium were different, but the system is not amenable
    > to manual control (especially by manually varying C), but
    > there are strict limits to an individual's ability to
    > change it.
    >
    > Decreasing C (dieting) has been shown to cause a long-
    > term decrease in H and a long term increase in S, and to
    > prevent I from increasing when V is increased. Millions of
    > dieters have experienced this. Obesity researchers

    > try to do something real with their lives instead of cheap
    > shots boosting their self-image at the expense of people
    > who are different.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413099, This is breaking news?
    >
    > Posted by Concerned GA Voter on 3/10/04 05:04 PM
    >
    > All you had to do is ask my ass cheeks........
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413216, People do not KNOW how to eat healthy
    >
    > Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 06:12 PM
    >
    > and their satiation point is far above what it should be.
    > Huge servings are a pride and joy and denote abundance and
    > wealth--continuous snacking on sugar laden cakes and
    > candies is expected--vendor machines are all over the
    > schools.
    >
    > When I went to school, there were no machines that
    > contained juice, candy, potatoe chips, cookies and other
    > little treats. We survived and we were not a fat
    > generation.
    >
    > Walk down the cereal aisle and count, if you are as
    > compulsive as I am, the number of cereals there-more than
    > two hundred--all jumping with appealing cartoons, Nascar
    > cars and bright color and beckoning to the little children-
    > every single one of them contains added sugar-- a lot of
    > it. If it were not for the added vitamins, it would really
    > be a worthless food. Yet, we are told that cereal is a
    > good thing to feed your child and yourself. Add some milk
    > to the fruity o's and you get the heart award. Many
    > advertise they are "heart healthy" and that is because
    > they are low fat. Most breads and grains are, but it says
    > nothing about the deteriment to the health of the sugar
    > added to almost everything on the supermarket shelf .
    >
    > The entire food corporate industry is dedicated to selling
    > food to the American people any way they can sell
    > it. Mostly advertising appeals to those who are fulfilling
    > an image of the concerned mom who wants to feed her
    > child the best there is. We think it just fine to eat
    > and eat and eat because they tell us, subliminally, it
    > is so wonderful to do so.
    >
    > And then we eat the sugar and indeed, feel wonderful.
    >
    > In other countries, this is not the case, but in America,
    > and it is quite obvious we do have a lot of fat people
    > here,they is no denying that, it is considered the normal
    > way of eating. It is a constant eating and eating and
    > giving the stomach little rest.
    >
    > One does not have a normal portion of french fries,
    > containing maybe half a cup--you want, and think you
    > deserve for your money, three times the serving size. And
    > soon, even that does not "fill you up"
    >
    > Most people do not realize what a 'serving" consists of.
    > Most cannot at this point discipline themself to eat only
    > one serving of anything.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413272, I'm not sure if you're giving people too
    > much credit,
    >
    > Posted by Robb on 3/10/04 06:50 PM
    >
    > or not enough. I think it's just like smoking. I don't
    > know a single smoker who doesn't know it's just plain bad
    > for you; I can't imagine there are consumers who think a
    > big ol' drippy cheeseburger and fries is good for you.
    >
    > It's just both groups are very, very good at not
    > thinking about it while they're partaking. And society
    > has largely been pretty good at not pointing it out to
    > them in the moment.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413310, Yes, that could be one way to look at it, but
    >
    > Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 07:24 PM
    >
    > I was shocked when I found out what a "serving" was. It is
    > half a cup, usually. That is, when one sees five servings
    > of bread, pasta or whatever starches on the food pyramid,
    > that is a half cup serving. If you eat two cups of pasta
    > at one sitting, which I think is pretty much what people
    > pile on their plate that is already four servings for the
    > day. If the daily requirement on that pyramid is five
    > servings and you had two pieces of toast in the morning,
    > and bread with the pasta, and a sandwich for supper, you
    > are way over the guidelines not to mention any starchy
    > vegetables that you may have had, like potatoe salad with
    > the sandwich. Now try measuring out half a cup of pasta
    > and being satisfied with it. That is what I mean--we get a
    > satiation tolerance far over what is recommended. In other
    > words, if we do not have two cups of pasta we feel
    > cheated.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413317, Good ol' Corporate Amerikkka...
    >
    > Posted by I m With Stupid on 3/10/04 07:30 PM
    >
    > Look, advertising works. It's as simple as that. The
    > corporate shills love to go on about Personal
    > Responsibility, but the sad fact is that we're raised from
    > infancy being told by business what to eat, what to drink,
    > what to wear, what to watch, what to do, and what to
    > think. It really isn't surprising that when they tell us
    > to spend our wealth on poison and dump it into our bodies,
    > the masses respond like trained sheep.
    >
    > Have you heard the latest? The neocons are arguing in the
    > senate, right now, that we need a law protecting Big Heart
    > Attack from legal action. Well, hell, I wonder who paid
    > for that...?
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > End of forwarded messages
    >
    > More here:
    >
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az-
    =show_topic&forum
    =102&topic_id=
    >
    > Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti
    >
    > Panchaang for 20 Phalgun 5104, Wednesday, March 10, 2004:
    >
    > Shubhanu Nama Samvatsare Uttarayane Moksh Ritau Kumbh
    > Mase Krshn Pakshe Buddh Vasara Yuktayam Svati-Vaishakh
    > Nakshatr Vyaghat Yog Balav-Taitil Karan Chaturthi-
    > Panchami Yam Tithau
    >
    > Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
    >
    > Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
    > http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org
    >
    > The truth about Islam and Muslims
    > http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
    >
    > o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used
    > for the educational purposes of research and open
    > discussion. The contents of this post may not have
    > been authored by, and do not necessarily represent
    > the opinion of the poster. The contents are protected
    > by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of
    > copyrighted works. o If you send private e-mail to
    > me, it will likely not be read, considered or
    > answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
    > current e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice
    > telephone number. o Posted for information and
    > discussion. Views expressed by others are not
    > necessarily those of the poster.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    > .. it means that fat moslem females must be ridiculed,
    > lectured, and humiliated at every opportunity.

    This is why we laugh at moslem women. They are by far the
    biggest fat-asses I've ever seen.

    "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:health-
    [email protected]
    > Study finds Americans are too fat
    >
    > 411791, Study finds Americans are too fat
    >
    > Posted by Thankfully_in_Britain on 3/10/04 03:20 AM
    >
    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3496918.stm
    >
    > A new study in the United States says obesity is likely to
    > become the country's biggest preventable killer. The
    > research, by the Centers for Disease Control and
    > Prevention, is the latest work showing widespread weight
    > gain among Americans of all ages.
    >
    > "We're just too fat," Health Secretary Tommy Thompson said
    > at the unveiling of the study.
    >
    > It found that poor diet and lack of exercise caused
    > 400,000 deaths in the US in the year 2000. That figure
    > represents a 33% jump since 1990.
    >
    > If current trends continue, then obesity will shortly
    > overtake smoking as the single biggest cause of
    > preventable deaths in the United States.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411794, You know what that means ...
    >
    > Posted by BareKnuckledLiberal on 3/10/04 03:24 AM
    >
    > .. it means that fat people must be ridiculed, lectured,
    > and humiliated at every opportunity.
    >
    > --bkl
    >
    > 413097, don't forget smokers. nt
    >
    > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 05:04 PM
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413175, Jeez
    >
    > Posted by PassingFair on 3/10/04 05:51 PM
    >
    > ..like they aren't already?
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411796, It took a study to point that out?
    >
    > Posted by DarkSim on 3/10/04 03:30 AM
    >
    > My girlfriend is considered by studies as "fat" so don't
    > assume i'm some kind of obese person hater.
    >
    > As an expat i can say that the U.S does have a reputation
    > world wide of being a "fat" nation.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411799, This is all bullshit.
    >
    > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 03:33 AM
    >
    > Fat 'fact' takes on life of its own
    >
    > Paul Campos, Rocky Mt. News
    >
    > http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/art-
    > icle/0,1299,D...
    >
    > June 18, 2002
    >
    > An abiding weakness of the conventional wisdom is that,
    > once a supposed fact has become part of that wisdom, it
    > becomes almost impossible to dislodge it. Contemporary
    > journalism contributes to this problem by relying on
    > technologies that help ensure an assertion, once it is
    > repeated enough times, will never be checked against the
    > actual evidence. Consider for example the claim that fat
    > kills 300,000 Americans per year, and is thus the nation's
    > second-leading cause of premature death, trailing only
    > cigarettes.
    >
    > A Lexis database search reveals that this "fact" has been
    > repeated in more than 1,000 news stories over the past
    > three years alone. Yet the evidence for this claim is so
    > slim as to be practically nonexistent.
    >
    > As University of Virginia professor Glen Gaesser points
    > out in the forthcoming revised edition of his book Big Fat
    > Lies, the supposed source for this claim was a 1993
    > medical study that made no such assertion. That study
    > attributed around 300,000 extra deaths per year to
    > sedentary lifestyle and poor dietary habits, not to
    > weight, which was not even evaluated as a risk factor.
    > Indeed the authors of the study, Michael McGinnis and
    > William Foege, became so frustrated by the chronic
    > miscitation of their data that in 1998 they published a
    > letter in the New England Journal of Medicine, objecting
    > to the misuse of their study.
    >
    > A year later the journal published an article which
    > actually did assert that obesity causes approximately
    > 300,000 deaths annually. This article, "Annual Deaths
    > Attributable to Obesity in the United States," is a
    > classic example of junk science at its worst. After
    > calculating the death risk associated with various weight
    > levels derived from six epidemiological studies, the
    > authors employed the following assumption: "Our
    > calculations assume that all excess mortality in obese
    > people is due to their obesity" (emphasis added). That
    > was, to put it mildly, a remarkable assumption. As Gaesser
    > points out, "the authors made no attempt to determine
    > whether other factors -- such as physical inactivity, low
    > fitness levels, poor diet, risky weight loss practices,
    > and less-than-adequate access to health care, just to name
    > a few -- could have explained some, or all, of the excess
    > mortality in fat people."
    >
    > In fact there is a great deal of evidence that such
    > factors are far more relevant to mortality than weight.
    > Indeed, long-term studies conducted at Dallas' Cooper
    > Institute, involving tens of thousands of subjects tracked
    > for a decade or more, have concluded that all of the
    > excess mortality associated with increasing weight is
    > accounted for by activity levels, not weight. These
    > studies show moderately active fat people have far lower
    > mortality rates than thin sedentary people, and
    > essentially the same mortality rates as thin active
    > people. In other words, adding just one variable to the
    > mix -- activity levels -- eliminates fat as a risk factor
    > (the activity levels associated with optimum mortality
    > rates are quite modest -- a brisk daily half-hour walk
    > will by itself put a person in these categories).
    >
    > Furthermore the 300,000-deaths-per-year figure was derived
    > without taking into account factors such as yo-yo dieting
    > and diet drug use, both of which have been shown to have
    > devastating effects on health. Nor were variables such as
    > class -- poor people die sooner than the well-off -- and
    > social discrimination, which has been shown to have a very
    > negative impact on health, taken into account. In short,
    > the claim that fat causes 300,000 deaths per year should
    > be dismissed as an assertion for which there is
    > essentially no evidence. Journalists in particular ought
    > to start noticing that fact, rather than endlessly
    > reprinting the same piece of junk science.
    >
    > Paul Campos is a professor of law at the University of
    > Colorado. He can be contacted at [email protected]
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412493, Thanks for posting this
    >
    > Posted by redqueen on 3/10/04 12:24 PM
    >
    > I've heard of similar studies as well that back up this
    > assertion. IIRC a woman in CA filed a lawsuit after she
    > tried to get a job as a fitness instructor, but was turned
    > down for the job because she was overweight. They won the
    > lawsuit, due to the fact that she didn't fit the image
    > they wanted to project (that if you work out you will be
    > thin). She was fit and qualified to lead an aerobics class
    > but was still overweight.
    >
    > I think we need more focus on this. There are many young
    > girls who will work out regularly, but if they don't get
    > the flat tummy they expect then sometimes that leads to
    > unhealthy ways of trying to achieve the look that's
    > marketed as acceptable.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411800, DUH.......
    >
    > Posted by Joanne98 on 3/10/04 03:37 AM
    >
    > When did he figure this out. Oh I get it. It wasn't
    > important to get Americans to quit eating fast food
    > before. Now that we're going to privatize all of the
    > health care system and the insurance companies have to
    > pay, it's all of a sudden a problem. Well good luck.
    > After a lifetime of hearing "junkfood" is healthy, fun
    > and cool, it's going to be impossible to get them to eat
    > right. Besides, vegetables are UNAMERICAN don't ya know.
    > It's bigger than food, "it's their idenity. My SUV, my
    > big Mac and my "merican" flag sticking out of my dumb fat
    > ass. " Hey Betty, get the kids ready and let's go to the
    > Wal Mart".
    >
    > That great "merican" store. Uggggghhhhhhhh
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411833, You have hit the button--that is my feeling also
    >
    > Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 04:45 AM
    >
    > I keep reading the word "preventable" disease, this one
    > says "preventable killer" a lot more in the past year
    > than I have before. I wonder why--and I think at some
    > point these "slackers" who "refuse" to "prevent" a
    > "possible disease" will be punished by insurance
    > companies in some way-
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411847, I wonder if this is another Bushco "edited"
    > report...
    >
    > Posted by zbird on 3/10/04 05:39 AM
    >
    > like the poverty/minority/access to health care study.
    >
    > Also, wait for the other shoe to drop. A 33% increase
    > during the 1990's. It will all be Clinton's fault. The
    > economy was booming, the US was at relative peace, and we
    > got fat. I can see the spinning now.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411805, I predict this problem will be solved
    >
    > Posted by NJCher on 3/10/04 03:44 AM
    >
    > ...when the energy crisis gets worse. We do everything
    > with fossil fuels. We don't even bend over to pick up a
    > frickin' leaf. I've seen people actually get out a leaf
    > blower to blow one leaf off a driveway!
    >
    > When it becomes cost prohibitive to keep a home at 70
    > degrees, that's when we'll start burning off some of
    > this fat.
    >
    > Cher
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411811, Bare assed liberal
    >
    > Posted by undergroundpanther on 3/10/04 03:52 AM
    >
    > . it means that fat people must be ridiculed, lectured,
    > and humiliated at every opportunity.
    >
    > And bullies who think like this..need to be told to grow
    > past that asshole they have got for a mouth.
    >
    > This "well meaning" call to abuse heavy folks is just an
    > excuse to abuse people.Call it what it is,it does NOBODY
    > good to belittle them for being heavy but it does an
    > abuser good to shame them by calling them on the carpet
    > over their crappy behaviors..
    >
    > I hate this kinda crap it's so republican of you.To hell
    > with this fat scapegoating,You'd think people would grow
    > beyond doing this kind of bigoted middle school
    > mentality crap.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412445, I think that post you're responding to was meant
    > to be satirical
    >
    > Posted by meluseth on 3/10/04 12:01 PM
    >
    > Pointing out that this info only provides ammo for those
    > bullies.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411818, If they are so concerned about Americans being
    >
    > Posted by Piperay on 3/10/04 04:08 AM
    >
    > too fat how come they fight tooth and nail to keep
    > nutritional information off of fast food menus???
    > (rhetorical question) I know the answer, it's because the
    > fast food industry lobbies to keep that from happening.
    > They are afraid it might hurt sales if people knew how
    > chucked full of fat and calories the crap is. :puke:
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412961, Bingo-they even changed the Pyramid, PAID to push
    > cheese etc.
    >
    > Posted by dax on 3/10/04 03:54 PM
    >
    > My dad is a nutritionist who consults with the government
    > and he was BURNIN Mad about the last food pyramid they set
    > up-the meat and dairy industry totally revised what the
    > scientists came up with to push meat and dairy higher up.
    > Then the dairy people got a bunch of tax money to market
    > cheese to fast food so they can add calories with double
    > cheese this and stuffed crust that it is a propaganda
    > campaign for everyone to take the guilt-you just don't
    > exercise enough (well that is propbably true) but it
    > doesn't excuse BushCo's deconstruction of science- that is
    > a crime! Last week they declared there is "no difference"
    > between wild salmon and hatchery fish so we don't have to
    > protect them (look for major zoo-expansion- maybe we don't
    > have to protect any habitat if we can raise enough wild
    > animals!)
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413074, Are you saying people think fast food is not full
    > of fat and calories?
    >
    > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 04:47 PM
    >
    > don't be ridiculous, ever see someone eating a double
    > bacon cheeseburger with the sauce dripping off their wrist
    > drinking a diet coke? that's called a balanced meal.
    >
    > Can we stand up for individual responsibility, or are we a
    > nation of dupes who will eat what we see on tv? Fat tastes
    > good, pork fat is my favorite! I don't see a line of
    > people at Mcburgers studying the nutritional info before
    > ordering (it's there!). People make choices, and we are
    > damn lucky to have the choice to be fat. Not many problems
    > dealing with eating disorders like bulimia, anorexia, or
    > obesity in sub-saharan countries or third world countries
    > in general. Hell in this country we send our pets to the
    > fat farm. Choice, people! We can choose what to eat and
    > choose what to do or not do for physical activity. This
    > rant is making me hungry! Gotta order a pepperoni,sausage,
    > double cheese pizza AND have it delivered so I don't have
    > to walk to my damn car..... hey, maybe I'll have them
    > throw some of those yummy buffalo wings in too..
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413218, I don't believe it but
    >
    > Posted by Piperay on 3/10/04 06:16 PM
    >
    > apparently the fast food industry thinks that the public
    > is stupid because they are the ones who are afraid it will
    > lose them business if they give people the information.
    > They are the ones who are stupid because people already
    > know the stuff is fattening but they go there anyway. IF
    > the government was serious they would give more than lip
    > service to the issue, that's the point.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413297, like what? people want to eat that sh.. -stuff.
    >
    > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 07:11 PM
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 411848, With meals like this...
    >
    > Posted by Dead_Parrot on 3/10/04 05:40 AM
    >
    > http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0744/index.html
    >
    > (Warning - Don't read while eating)
    >
    > ..it's not that surprising. Seriously, do people eat that
    > stuff? (And I thought adding parmesan to roast parsnips
    > was bad.)
    >
    > :puke:
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412478, It's real. I have seen it.
    >
    > Posted by BiggJawn on 3/10/04 12:14 PM
    >
    > "Over a POUND of FOOD!"
    >
    > and they have other versions of it, too, like 1/2 a
    > chicken, and 3 hamburger patties.
    >
    > Lance Armstrong couldn't burn that much saturated fat
    > climbing Mt. Ventoux AND Col du Calibre!
    >
    > Oh, BTW, I finished up my sushi lunch while looking at
    > that site. I have a strong constitution. :7
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412761, that is wonderful--it made me laugh until i
    > cried!!!
    >
    > Posted by frank frankly on 3/10/04 02:08 PM
    >
    > i passed it along immediately...
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412234, How many millions were spent discovering this, or
    > did they just
    >
    > Posted by Mayberry Machiavelli on 3/10/04 10:47 AM
    >
    > send the college intern down to the local shopping mall to
    > look around and snap some pics?
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412535, Our Food
    >
    > Posted by DesignGirl on 3/10/04 12:42 PM
    >
    > I have studied nutrition for many years after my doctors
    > couldn't help with chronic illness with my son. If people
    > really know what is in the food or understood how much
    > food effects every part of our life, maybe they would
    > force the industry to do something about it.
    >
    > Right now I pay more for almost all my organic food(even
    > at a local coop). Our food has so much artificial,
    > unnatural crap in it, no wonder we have so many new
    > diseases like ADD and Obesity. What happened to growing
    > food and eating it in its basic form.
    >
    > It is sad that we have so many drugs to help with these
    > issues, and most of it could be helped with a better
    > understanding and willingness to change the food. It
    > changed my sons life.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412591, So true!
    >
    > Posted by rawtribe on 3/10/04 01:12 PM
    >
    > When the calories in your diet are nutrient dense all
    > aspects of your health will improve. This comes from
    > eating low on the food chain.
    >
    > http://www.pcrm.org
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413022, Exactly what part of
    >
    > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 04:31 PM
    >
    > after controlling for activity levels, there is no
    > relationship between fat and disease is it that you don't
    > understand? Healthy eating and exercise will make everyone
    > healthier, not necessarily (very much) thinner.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412590, They could have just looked...
    >
    > Posted by Thankfully_in_Britain on 3/10/04 01:11 PM
    >
    > at the guy unveiling the study, Tommy Thompson. He ain't
    > exactly Mr skinny is he?
    >
    > Here's another article on the matter I've found about
    > somebody who's written a book on obesity
    >
    > http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,9-
    > 07894,00.html
    >
    > The statistics were shocking - 26 per cent of Americans
    > are now clinically obese - but more shocking still was the
    > fact that people were, and continue to be, in denial of
    > this fact. For the middle classes in particular, any
    > discussion of obesity, or even fat, soon leads to
    > aesthetic and gender issues - the idea that talking about
    > it will give children 'low self-esteem' or, worse,
    > anorexia.
    >
    > Doctors also remain either in ignorance or outright denial
    > about the dangers of obesity to the poor and the young. A
    > patient earning more than $50,000 is more likely to be
    > advised to lose weight than one with a lower income. Since
    > it is the urban poor who suffer the highest rates of
    > obesity and consequent ill-health, this is worrying. The
    > fat just get sicker and sicker. In the US, the annual cost
    > of treating diabetics, the majority of new cases being a
    > direct result of excess weight, stands at more than $100
    > billion. Between 1988 and 1994, 39 million working days
    > were lost due to obesity, with a value of $3.9 billion to
    > the economy.
    >
    > 'Most of us are fat because we are slothful and
    > gluttonous,' he says. 'People don't want to hear that. In
    > the course of researching my book, I came to believe that,
    > morally, over-eating is wrong. Look at Bosch's depiction
    > of gluttony: a man is eating; his child is tugging at his
    > shirt; another man sits at the end of the table with
    > nothing on his plate; his wife is waiting at the door for
    > his next demand. Act the glutton, and you're not only
    > worshipping your belly as a false god; you're involved in
    > the dereliction of your secular duties as well. You're not
    > taking care of your child; you're taking the food off
    > somebody else's plate; you're neglecting your duties at
    > work; you're not taking care of your body.'
    >
    > That Critser is a liberal and a Democrat, rather than some
    > toothy bible basher from the Mid-West, somehow serves to
    > make his assertions all the more forceful. 'All of this
    > does have spiritual, religious overtones,' he says. 'But I
    > think we can agree that, even in a secular sense, these
    > things are morally wrong. I come from a generation that
    > wants to avoid talking about moral absolutes, preferring
    > instead to put the emphasis always on context. But I now
    > think that there ARE absolutes, and the question is: what
    > is a compassionate way to educate people about them? The
    > people who accuse me of wanting to stigmatise fat people
    > are just confused; I want to stigmatise gluttony, not the
    > fat per se.'
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 412750, Again, the focus is on fat, and not quality of
    > food or exercise
    >
    > Posted by redqueen on 3/10/04 02:04 PM
    >
    > There IS a difference.
    >
    > Doesn't anyone wonder WHY the urban poor have the highest
    > rates of obesity? JUNK FOOD IS CHEAP.
    >
    > *sigh*
    >
    > I should just give up now.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413005, Full of shit
    >
    > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 04:17 PM
    >
    > Sorry, but the focus should be on exercise, not looks.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413095, on looks? no correlation between physical
    > activity/diet and fat levels?
    >
    > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 05:02 PM
    >
    > How many marathon runners do you know who are obese? Why
    > is there an assumption that this is about looks?
    >
    > How to lose weight= eat less calories than you use. Not
    > rocket science.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413250, More bullshit
    >
    > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 06:36 PM
    >
    > Eat less, and your systems automatically adjust to 'need'
    > less. Whether you can get ahead of the game depends 100%
    > on factors beyond your control. You'd know that if you
    > knew anything about complex systems with feedback loops
    > that have no resemblance to bank accounts.
    >
    > It's all about looks--the dull normals who aren't fat, but
    > have lives of no particular distinction can always pat
    > themselves on the back for something. (Do you know any
    > power lifters who are skinny?)
    >
    > The real thermodynamic balance of human metabolism
    > is this.
    >
    > C - N - S - I - H - E - V = 0
    >
    > C = calories eaten N = non-absorbed calories excreted in
    > bowels S = calories stored I = calories calories used
    > involuntarily (muscle maintenance, involuntary motion) H =
    > calories used for heat generation V = calories used
    > voluntarily (exercise, for example) E = calories excreted
    > in urine (Examples: fat converted to glucose in the liver
    > and excreted in the urine, incompletely burned
    > triglycerides which are excreted in the urine, and albumin
    > excreted in the urine)
    >
    > It should be noted that there is 'manual' control only on
    > C and V. People who think of human metabolism as a bank
    > account are willfully ignorant that these other variables
    > adjust automatically within an active control system. All
    > adjust when some of them change. When C and V are changed
    > 'manually', there may be permanent alteration to the
    > control system (as in long-term dieting).
    >
    > The amount of energy stored is not 'whatever is left
    > over'. The body actively stores or mobilizes energy from
    > its energy store. If there is a resulting energy deficit,
    > it tries to increase C, causes a reduction in I, H, and E,
    > and even actively prevents V. If there is an energy
    > surplus, it tries to decrease C, increases I and H,
    > encourages V, and, as a last resort, increases E.
    >
    > The control system for these actions is decentralized. So,
    > it is possible for the energy store to believe that it
    > needs to increase S, while simultaneously, the liver
    > believes that it is necessary to increase E. This leaves
    > I, H, and V at an extreme disadvantage.
    >
    > If an individual is not lethargic and ravenous, then the
    > control system is notimbalanced, but may have a different
    > equilibrium than the average. One may wish that the
    > equilibrium were different, but the system is not amenable
    > to manual control (especially by manually varying C), but
    > there are strict limits to an individual's ability to
    > change it.
    >
    > Decreasing C (dieting) has been shown to cause a long-
    > term decrease in H and a long term increase in S, and to
    > prevent I from increasing when V is increased. Millions of
    > dieters have experienced this. Obesity researchers

    > try to do something real with their lives instead of cheap
    > shots boosting their self-image at the expense of people
    > who are different.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413099, This is breaking news?
    >
    > Posted by Concerned GA Voter on 3/10/04 05:04 PM
    >
    > All you had to do is ask my ass cheeks........
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413216, People do not KNOW how to eat healthy
    >
    > Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 06:12 PM
    >
    > and their satiation point is far above what it should be.
    > Huge servings are a pride and joy and denote abundance and
    > wealth--continuous snacking on sugar laden cakes and
    > candies is expected--vendor machines are all over the
    > schools.
    >
    > When I went to school, there were no machines that
    > contained juice, candy, potatoe chips, cookies and other
    > little treats. We survived and we were not a fat
    > generation.
    >
    > Walk down the cereal aisle and count, if you are as
    > compulsive as I am, the number of cereals there-more than
    > two hundred--all jumping with appealing cartoons, Nascar
    > cars and bright color and beckoning to the little children-
    > every single one of them contains added sugar-- a lot of
    > it. If it were not for the added vitamins, it would really
    > be a worthless food. Yet, we are told that cereal is a
    > good thing to feed your child and yourself. Add some milk
    > to the fruity o's and you get the heart award. Many
    > advertise they are "heart healthy" and that is because
    > they are low fat. Most breads and grains are, but it says
    > nothing about the deteriment to the health of the sugar
    > added to almost everything on the supermarket shelf .
    >
    > The entire food corporate industry is dedicated to selling
    > food to the American people any way they can sell
    > it. Mostly advertising appeals to those who are fulfilling
    > an image of the concerned mom who wants to feed her
    > child the best there is. We think it just fine to eat
    > and eat and eat because they tell us, subliminally, it
    > is so wonderful to do so.
    >
    > And then we eat the sugar and indeed, feel wonderful.
    >
    > In other countries, this is not the case, but in America,
    > and it is quite obvious we do have a lot of fat people
    > here,they is no denying that, it is considered the normal
    > way of eating. It is a constant eating and eating and
    > giving the stomach little rest.
    >
    > One does not have a normal portion of french fries,
    > containing maybe half a cup--you want, and think you
    > deserve for your money, three times the serving size. And
    > soon, even that does not "fill you up"
    >
    > Most people do not realize what a 'serving" consists of.
    > Most cannot at this point discipline themself to eat only
    > one serving of anything.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413272, I'm not sure if you're giving people too
    > much credit,
    >
    > Posted by Robb on 3/10/04 06:50 PM
    >
    > or not enough. I think it's just like smoking. I don't
    > know a single smoker who doesn't know it's just plain bad
    > for you; I can't imagine there are consumers who think a
    > big ol' drippy cheeseburger and fries is good for you.
    >
    > It's just both groups are very, very good at not
    > thinking about it while they're partaking. And society
    > has largely been pretty good at not pointing it out to
    > them in the moment.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413310, Yes, that could be one way to look at it, but
    >
    > Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 07:24 PM
    >
    > I was shocked when I found out what a "serving" was. It is
    > half a cup, usually. That is, when one sees five servings
    > of bread, pasta or whatever starches on the food pyramid,
    > that is a half cup serving. If you eat two cups of pasta
    > at one sitting, which I think is pretty much what people
    > pile on their plate that is already four servings for the
    > day. If the daily requirement on that pyramid is five
    > servings and you had two pieces of toast in the morning,
    > and bread with the pasta, and a sandwich for supper, you
    > are way over the guidelines not to mention any starchy
    > vegetables that you may have had, like potatoe salad with
    > the sandwich. Now try measuring out half a cup of pasta
    > and being satisfied with it. That is what I mean--we get a
    > satiation tolerance far over what is recommended. In other
    > words, if we do not have two cups of pasta we feel
    > cheated.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > 413317, Good ol' Corporate Amerikkka...
    >
    > Posted by I m With Stupid on 3/10/04 07:30 PM
    >
    > Look, advertising works. It's as simple as that. The
    > corporate shills love to go on about Personal
    > Responsibility, but the sad fact is that we're raised from
    > infancy being told by business what to eat, what to drink,
    > what to wear, what to watch, what to do, and what to
    > think. It really isn't surprising that when they tell us
    > to spend our wealth on poison and dump it into our bodies,
    > the masses respond like trained sheep.
    >
    > Have you heard the latest? The neocons are arguing in the
    > senate, right now, that we need a law protecting Big Heart
    > Attack from legal action. Well, hell, I wonder who paid
    > for that...?
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > End of forwarded messages
    >
    > More here:
    >
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az-
    =show_topic&forum
    =102&topic_id=
    >
    > Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti
    >
    > Panchaang for 20 Phalgun 5104, Wednesday, March 10, 2004:
    >
    > Shubhanu Nama Samvatsare Uttarayane Moksh Ritau Kumbh
    > Mase Krshn Pakshe Buddh Vasara Yuktayam Svati-Vaishakh
    > Nakshatr Vyaghat Yog Balav-Taitil Karan Chaturthi-
    > Panchami Yam Tithau
    >
    > Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
    >
    > Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
    > http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org
    >
    > The truth about Islam and Muslims
    > http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
    >
    > o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used
    > for the educational purposes of research and open
    > discussion. The contents of this post may not have
    > been authored by, and do not necessarily represent
    > the opinion of the poster. The contents are protected
    > by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of
    > copyrighted works. o If you send private e-mail to
    > me, it will likely not be read, considered or
    > answered if it does not contain your full legal name,
    > current e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice
    > telephone number. o Posted for information and
    > discussion. Views expressed by others are not
    > necessarily those of the poster.
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>,
    "Eugene Kent" <[email protected]> posted:
    >
    > Why do you think everyone calls Americans fat-heads?

    And fat cats.

    Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti

    > Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message news:health-
    > [email protected]
    > > Study finds Americans are too fat
    > >
    > > 411791, Study finds Americans are too fat
    > >
    > > Posted by Thankfully_in_Britain on 3/10/04 03:20 AM
    > >
    > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3496918.stm
    > >
    > > A new study in the United States says obesity is likely
    > > to become the country's biggest preventable killer. The
    > > research, by the Centers for Disease Control and
    > > Prevention, is the latest work showing widespread weight
    > > gain among Americans of all ages.
    > >
    > > "We're just too fat," Health Secretary Tommy Thompson
    > > said at the unveiling of the study.
    > >
    > > It found that poor diet and lack of exercise caused
    > > 400,000 deaths in the US in the year 2000. That figure
    > > represents a 33% jump since 1990.
    > >
    > > If current trends continue, then obesity will shortly
    > > overtake smoking as the single biggest cause of
    > > preventable deaths in the United States.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411794, You know what that means ...
    > >
    > > Posted by BareKnuckledLiberal on 3/10/04 03:24 AM
    > >
    > > .. it means that fat people must be ridiculed, lectured,
    > > and humiliated at every opportunity.
    > >
    > > --bkl
    > >
    > > 413097, don't forget smokers. nt
    > >
    > > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 05:04 PM
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413175, Jeez
    > >
    > > Posted by PassingFair on 3/10/04 05:51 PM
    > >
    > > ..like they aren't already?
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411796, It took a study to point that out?
    > >
    > > Posted by DarkSim on 3/10/04 03:30 AM
    > >
    > > My girlfriend is considered by studies as "fat" so don't
    > > assume i'm some kind of obese person hater.
    > >
    > > As an expat i can say that the U.S does have a
    > > reputation world wide of being a "fat" nation.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411799, This is all bullshit.
    > >
    > > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 03:33 AM
    > >
    > > Fat 'fact' takes on life of its own
    > >
    > > Paul Campos, Rocky Mt. News
    > >
    > > http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/a-
    > > rticle/0,1299,D...
    > >
    > > June 18, 2002
    > >
    > > An abiding weakness of the conventional wisdom is that,
    > > once a supposed fact has become part of that wisdom, it
    > > becomes almost impossible to dislodge it. Contemporary
    > > journalism contributes to this problem by relying on
    > > technologies that help ensure an assertion, once it is
    > > repeated enough times, will never be checked against the
    > > actual evidence. Consider for example the claim that fat
    > > kills 300,000 Americans per year, and is thus the
    > > nation's second-leading cause of premature death,
    > > trailing only cigarettes.
    > >
    > > A Lexis database search reveals that this "fact" has
    > > been repeated in more than 1,000 news stories over the
    > > past three years alone. Yet the evidence for this claim
    > > is so slim as to be practically nonexistent.
    > >
    > > As University of Virginia professor Glen Gaesser points
    > > out in the forthcoming revised edition of his book Big
    > > Fat Lies, the supposed source for this claim was a 1993
    > > medical study that made no such assertion. That study
    > > attributed around 300,000 extra deaths per year to
    > > sedentary lifestyle and poor dietary habits, not to
    > > weight, which was not even evaluated as a risk factor.
    > > Indeed the authors of the study, Michael McGinnis and
    > > William Foege, became so frustrated by the chronic
    > > miscitation of their data that in 1998 they published a
    > > letter in the New England Journal of Medicine, objecting
    > > to the misuse of their study.
    > >
    > > A year later the journal published an article which
    > > actually did assert that obesity causes approximately
    > > 300,000 deaths annually. This article, "Annual Deaths
    > > Attributable to Obesity in the United States," is a
    > > classic example of junk science at its worst. After
    > > calculating the death risk associated with various
    > > weight levels derived from six epidemiological studies,
    > > the authors employed the following assumption: "Our
    > > calculations assume that all excess mortality in obese
    > > people is due to their obesity" (emphasis added). That
    > > was, to put it mildly, a remarkable assumption. As
    > > Gaesser points out, "the authors made no attempt to
    > > determine whether other factors -- such as physical
    > > inactivity, low fitness levels, poor diet, risky weight
    > > loss practices, and less-than-adequate access to health
    > > care, just to name a few -- could have explained some,
    > > or all, of the excess mortality in fat people."
    > >
    > > In fact there is a great deal of evidence that such
    > > factors are far more relevant to mortality than weight.
    > > Indeed, long-term studies conducted at Dallas' Cooper
    > > Institute, involving tens of thousands of subjects
    > > tracked for a decade or more, have concluded that all of
    > > the excess mortality associated with increasing weight
    > > is accounted for by activity levels, not weight. These
    > > studies show moderately active fat people have far lower
    > > mortality rates than thin sedentary people, and
    > > essentially the same mortality rates as thin active
    > > people. In other words, adding just one variable to the
    > > mix -- activity levels -- eliminates fat as a risk
    > > factor (the activity levels associated with optimum
    > > mortality rates are quite modest -- a brisk daily half-
    > > hour walk will by itself put a person in these
    > > categories).
    > >
    > > Furthermore the 300,000-deaths-per-year figure was
    > > derived without taking into account factors such as yo-
    > > yo dieting and diet drug use, both of which have been
    > > shown to have devastating effects on health. Nor were
    > > variables such as class -- poor people die sooner than
    > > the well-off -- and social discrimination, which has
    > > been shown to have a very negative impact on health,
    > > taken into account. In short, the claim that fat causes
    > > 300,000 deaths per year should be dismissed as an
    > > assertion for which there is essentially no evidence.
    > > Journalists in particular ought to start noticing that
    > > fact, rather than endlessly reprinting the same piece of
    > > junk science.
    > >
    > > Paul Campos is a professor of law at the University of
    > > Colorado. He can be contacted at
    > > [email protected]
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412493, Thanks for posting this
    > >
    > > Posted by redqueen on 3/10/04 12:24 PM
    > >
    > > I've heard of similar studies as well that back up this
    > > assertion. IIRC a woman in CA filed a lawsuit after she
    > > tried to get a job as a fitness instructor, but was
    > > turned down for the job because she was overweight. They
    > > won the lawsuit, due to the fact that she didn't fit the
    > > image they wanted to project (that if you work out you
    > > will be thin). She was fit and qualified to lead an
    > > aerobics class but was still overweight.
    > >
    > > I think we need more focus on this. There are many young
    > > girls who will work out regularly, but if they don't get
    > > the flat tummy they expect then sometimes that leads to
    > > unhealthy ways of trying to achieve the look that's
    > > marketed as acceptable.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411800, DUH.......
    > >
    > > Posted by Joanne98 on 3/10/04 03:37 AM
    > >
    > > When did he figure this out. Oh I get it. It wasn't
    > > important to get Americans to quit eating fast food
    > > before. Now that we're going to privatize all of the
    > > health care system and the insurance companies have to
    > > pay, it's all of a sudden a problem. Well good luck.
    > > After a lifetime of hearing "junkfood" is healthy, fun
    > > and cool, it's going to be impossible to get them to eat
    > > right. Besides, vegetables are UNAMERICAN don't ya know.
    > > It's bigger than food, "it's their idenity. My SUV, my
    > > big Mac and my "merican" flag sticking out of my dumb
    > > fat ass. " Hey Betty, get the kids ready and let's go to
    > > the Wal Mart".
    > >
    > > That great "merican" store. Uggggghhhhhhhh
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411833, You have hit the button--that is my feeling also
    > >
    > > Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 04:45 AM
    > >
    > > I keep reading the word "preventable" disease, this one
    > > says "preventable killer" a lot more in the past year
    > > than I have before. I wonder why--and I think at some
    > > point these "slackers" who "refuse" to "prevent" a
    > > "possible disease" will be punished by insurance
    > > companies in some way-
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411847, I wonder if this is another Bushco "edited"
    > > report...
    > >
    > > Posted by zbird on 3/10/04 05:39 AM
    > >
    > > like the poverty/minority/access to health care study.
    > >
    > > Also, wait for the other shoe to drop. A 33% increase
    > > during the 1990's. It will all be Clinton's fault. The
    > > economy was booming, the US was at relative peace, and
    > > we got fat. I can see the spinning now.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411805, I predict this problem will be solved
    > >
    > > Posted by NJCher on 3/10/04 03:44 AM
    > >
    > > ...when the energy crisis gets worse. We do everything
    > > with fossil fuels. We don't even bend over to pick up a
    > > frickin' leaf. I've seen people actually get out a leaf
    > > blower to blow one leaf off a driveway!
    > >
    > > When it becomes cost prohibitive to keep a home at 70
    > > degrees, that's when we'll start burning off some of
    > > this fat.
    > >
    > > Cher
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411811, Bare assed liberal
    > >
    > > Posted by undergroundpanther on 3/10/04 03:52 AM
    > >
    > > . it means that fat people must be ridiculed, lectured,
    > > and humiliated at every opportunity.
    > >
    > > And bullies who think like this..need to be told to grow
    > > past that asshole they have got for a mouth.
    > >
    > > This "well meaning" call to abuse heavy folks is just an
    > > excuse to abuse people.Call it what it is,it does NOBODY
    > > good to belittle them for being heavy but it does an
    > > abuser good to shame them by calling them on the carpet
    > > over their crappy behaviors..
    > >
    > > I hate this kinda crap it's so republican of you.To hell
    > > with this fat scapegoating,You'd think people would grow
    > > beyond doing this kind of bigoted middle school
    > > mentality crap.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412445, I think that post you're responding to was meant
    > > to be satirical
    > >
    > > Posted by meluseth on 3/10/04 12:01 PM
    > >
    > > Pointing out that this info only provides ammo for those
    > > bullies.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411818, If they are so concerned about Americans being
    > >
    > > Posted by Piperay on 3/10/04 04:08 AM
    > >
    > > too fat how come they fight tooth and nail to keep
    > > nutritional information off of fast food menus???
    > > (rhetorical question) I know the answer, it's because
    > > the fast food industry lobbies to keep that from
    > > happening. They are afraid it might hurt sales if people
    > > knew how chucked full of fat and calories the crap is.
    > > :puke:
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412961, Bingo-they even changed the Pyramid, PAID to
    > > push cheese etc.
    > >
    > > Posted by dax on 3/10/04 03:54 PM
    > >
    > > My dad is a nutritionist who consults with the
    > > government and he was BURNIN Mad about the last food
    > > pyramid they set up-the meat and dairy industry totally
    > > revised what the scientists came up with to push meat
    > > and dairy higher up. Then the dairy people got a bunch
    > > of tax money to market cheese to fast food so they can
    > > add calories with double cheese this and stuffed crust
    > > that it is a propaganda campaign for everyone to take
    > > the guilt-you just don't exercise enough (well that is
    > > propbably true) but it doesn't excuse BushCo's
    > > deconstruction of science- that is a crime! Last week
    > > they declared there is "no difference" between wild
    > > salmon and hatchery fish so we don't have to protect
    > > them (look for major zoo-expansion- maybe we don't have
    > > to protect any habitat if we can raise enough wild
    > > animals!)
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413074, Are you saying people think fast food is not
    > > full of fat and calories?
    > >
    > > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 04:47 PM
    > >
    > > don't be ridiculous, ever see someone eating a
    > > double bacon cheeseburger with the sauce dripping
    > > off their wrist drinking a diet coke? that's called
    > > a balanced meal.
    > >
    > > Can we stand up for individual responsibility, or are we
    > > a nation of dupes who will eat what we see on tv? Fat
    > > tastes good, pork fat is my favorite! I don't see a line
    > > of people at Mcburgers studying the nutritional info
    > > before ordering (it's there!). People make choices, and
    > > we are damn lucky to have the choice to be fat. Not many
    > > problems dealing with eating disorders like bulimia,
    > > anorexia, or obesity in sub-saharan countries or third
    > > world countries in general. Hell in this country we send
    > > our pets to the fat farm. Choice, people! We can choose
    > > what to eat and choose what to do or not do for physical
    > > activity. This rant is making me hungry! Gotta order a
    > > pepperoni,sausage, double cheese pizza AND have it
    > > delivered so I don't have to walk to my damn car.....
    > > hey, maybe I'll have them throw some of those yummy
    > > buffalo wings in too..
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413218, I don't believe it but
    > >
    > > Posted by Piperay on 3/10/04 06:16 PM
    > >
    > > apparently the fast food industry thinks that the public
    > > is stupid because they are the ones who are afraid it
    > > will lose them business if they give people the
    > > information. They are the ones who are stupid because
    > > people already know the stuff is fattening but they go
    > > there anyway. IF the government was serious they would
    > > give more than lip service to the issue, that's the
    > > point.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413297, like what? people want to eat that sh.. -stuff.
    > >
    > > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 07:11 PM
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 411848, With meals like this...
    > >
    > > Posted by Dead_Parrot on 3/10/04 05:40 AM
    > >
    > > http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0744/index.html
    > >
    > > (Warning - Don't read while eating)
    > >
    > > ..it's not that surprising. Seriously, do people eat
    > > that stuff? (And I thought adding parmesan to roast
    > > parsnips was bad.)
    > >
    > > :puke:
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412478, It's real. I have seen it.
    > >
    > > Posted by BiggJawn on 3/10/04 12:14 PM
    > >
    > > "Over a POUND of FOOD!"
    > >
    > > and they have other versions of it, too, like 1/2 a
    > > chicken, and 3 hamburger patties.
    > >
    > > Lance Armstrong couldn't burn that much saturated fat
    > > climbing Mt. Ventoux AND Col du Calibre!
    > >
    > > Oh, BTW, I finished up my sushi lunch while looking at
    > > that site. I have a strong constitution. :7
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412761, that is wonderful--it made me laugh until i
    > > cried!!!
    > >
    > > Posted by frank frankly on 3/10/04 02:08 PM
    > >
    > > i passed it along immediately...
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412234, How many millions were spent discovering this,
    > > or did they just
    > >
    > > Posted by Mayberry Machiavelli on 3/10/04 10:47 AM
    > >
    > > send the college intern down to the local shopping mall
    > > to look around and snap some pics?
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412535, Our Food
    > >
    > > Posted by DesignGirl on 3/10/04 12:42 PM
    > >
    > > I have studied nutrition for many years after my doctors
    > > couldn't help with chronic illness with my son. If
    > > people really know what is in the food or understood how
    > > much food effects every part of our life, maybe they
    > > would force the industry to do something about it.
    > >
    > > Right now I pay more for almost all my organic food(even
    > > at a local coop). Our food has so much artificial,
    > > unnatural crap in it, no wonder we have so many new
    > > diseases like ADD and Obesity. What happened to growing
    > > food and eating it in its basic form.
    > >
    > > It is sad that we have so many drugs to help with these
    > > issues, and most of it could be helped with a better
    > > understanding and willingness to change the food. It
    > > changed my sons life.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412591, So true!
    > >
    > > Posted by rawtribe on 3/10/04 01:12 PM
    > >
    > > When the calories in your diet are nutrient dense all
    > > aspects of your health will improve. This comes from
    > > eating low on the food chain.
    > >
    > > http://www.pcrm.org
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413022, Exactly what part of
    > >
    > > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 04:31 PM
    > >
    > > after controlling for activity levels, there is no
    > > relationship between fat and disease is it that you
    > > don't understand? Healthy eating and exercise will make
    > > everyone healthier, not necessarily (very much) thinner.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412590, They could have just looked...
    > >
    > > Posted by Thankfully_in_Britain on 3/10/04 01:11 PM
    > >
    > > at the guy unveiling the study, Tommy Thompson. He ain't
    > > exactly Mr skinny is he?
    > >
    > > Here's another article on the matter I've found about
    > > somebody who's written a book on obesity
    > >
    > > http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950-
    > > ,907894,00.html
    > >
    > > The statistics were shocking - 26 per cent of Americans
    > > are now clinically obese - but more shocking still was
    > > the fact that people were, and continue to be, in denial
    > > of this fact. For the middle classes in particular, any
    > > discussion of obesity, or even fat, soon leads to
    > > aesthetic and gender issues - the idea that talking
    > > about it will give children 'low self-esteem' or, worse,
    > > anorexia.
    > >
    > > Doctors also remain either in ignorance or outright
    > > denial about the dangers of obesity to the poor and the
    > > young. A patient earning more than $50,000 is more
    > > likely to be advised to lose weight than one with a
    > > lower income. Since it is the urban poor who suffer the
    > > highest rates of obesity and consequent ill-health, this
    > > is worrying. The fat just get sicker and sicker. In the
    > > US, the annual cost of treating diabetics, the majority
    > > of new cases being a direct result of excess weight,
    > > stands at more than $100 billion. Between 1988 and 1994,
    > > 39 million working days were lost due to obesity, with a
    > > value of $3.9 billion to the economy.
    > >
    > > 'Most of us are fat because we are slothful and
    > > gluttonous,' he says. 'People don't want to hear that.
    > > In the course of researching my book, I came to believe
    > > that, morally, over-eating is wrong. Look at Bosch's
    > > depiction of gluttony: a man is eating; his child is
    > > tugging at his shirt; another man sits at the end of the
    > > table with nothing on his plate; his wife is waiting at
    > > the door for his next demand. Act the glutton, and
    > > you're not only worshipping your belly as a false god;
    > > you're involved in the dereliction of your secular
    > > duties as well. You're not taking care of your child;
    > > you're taking the food off somebody else's plate; you're
    > > neglecting your duties at work; you're not taking care
    > > of your body.'
    > >
    > > That Critser is a liberal and a Democrat, rather than
    > > some toothy bible basher from the Mid-West, somehow
    > > serves to make his assertions all the more forceful.
    > > 'All of this does have spiritual, religious overtones,'
    > > he says. 'But I think we can agree that, even in a
    > > secular sense, these things are morally wrong. I come
    > > from a generation that wants to avoid talking about
    > > moral absolutes, preferring instead to put the emphasis
    > > always on context. But I now think that there ARE
    > > absolutes, and the question is: what is a compassionate
    > > way to educate people about them? The people who accuse
    > > me of wanting to stigmatise fat people are just
    > > confused; I want to stigmatise gluttony, not the fat
    > > per se.'
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 412750, Again, the focus is on fat, and not quality of
    > > food or exercise
    > >
    > > Posted by redqueen on 3/10/04 02:04 PM
    > >
    > > There IS a difference.
    > >
    > > Doesn't anyone wonder WHY the urban poor have the
    > > highest rates of obesity? JUNK FOOD IS CHEAP.
    > >
    > > *sigh*
    > >
    > > I should just give up now.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413005, Full of shit
    > >
    > > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 04:17 PM
    > >
    > > Sorry, but the focus should be on exercise, not looks.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413095, on looks? no correlation between physical
    > > activity/diet and fat levels?
    > >
    > > Posted by tobius on 3/10/04 05:02 PM
    > >
    > > How many marathon runners do you know who are obese? Why
    > > is there an assumption that this is about looks?
    > >
    > > How to lose weight= eat less calories than you use. Not
    > > rocket science.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413250, More bullshit
    > >
    > > Posted by eridani on 3/10/04 06:36 PM
    > >
    > > Eat less, and your systems automatically adjust to
    > > 'need' less. Whether you can get ahead of the game
    > > depends 100% on factors beyond your control. You'd know
    > > that if you knew anything about complex systems with
    > > feedback loops that have no resemblance to bank
    > > accounts.
    > >
    > > It's all about looks--the dull normals who aren't fat,
    > > but have lives of no particular distinction can always
    > > pat themselves on the back for something. (Do you know
    > > any power lifters who are skinny?)
    > >
    > > The real thermodynamic balance of human metabolism
    > > is this.
    > >
    > > C - N - S - I - H - E - V = 0
    > >
    > > C = calories eaten N = non-absorbed calories excreted in
    > > bowels S = calories stored I = calories calories used
    > > involuntarily (muscle maintenance, involuntary motion) H
    > > = calories used for heat generation V = calories used
    > > voluntarily (exercise, for example) E = calories
    > > excreted in urine (Examples: fat converted to glucose in
    > > the liver and excreted in the urine, incompletely burned
    > > triglycerides which are excreted in the urine, and
    > > albumin excreted in the urine)
    > >
    > > It should be noted that there is 'manual' control only
    > > on C and V. People who think of human metabolism as a
    > > bank account are willfully ignorant that these other
    > > variables adjust automatically within an active control
    > > system. All adjust when some of them change. When C and
    > > V are changed 'manually', there may be permanent
    > > alteration to the control system (as in long-term
    > > dieting).
    > >
    > > The amount of energy stored is not 'whatever is left
    > > over'. The body actively stores or mobilizes energy from
    > > its energy store. If there is a resulting energy
    > > deficit, it tries to increase C, causes a reduction in
    > > I, H, and E, and even actively prevents V. If there is
    > > an energy surplus, it tries to decrease C, increases I
    > > and H, encourages V, and, as a last resort, increases E.
    > >
    > > The control system for these actions is decentralized.
    > > So, it is possible for the energy store to believe that
    > > it needs to increase S, while simultaneously, the liver
    > > believes that it is necessary to increase E. This leaves
    > > I, H, and V at an extreme disadvantage.
    > >
    > > If an individual is not lethargic and ravenous, then the
    > > control system is notimbalanced, but may have a
    > > different equilibrium than the average. One may wish
    > > that the equilibrium were different, but the system is
    > > not amenable to manual control (especially by manually
    > > varying C), but there are strict limits to an
    > > individual's ability to change it.
    > >
    > > Decreasing C (dieting) has been shown to cause a long-
    > > term decrease in H and a long term increase in S, and to
    > > prevent I from increasing when V is increased. Millions
    > > of dieters have experienced this. Obesity researchers

    > > try to do something real with their lives instead of
    > > cheap shots boosting their self-image at the expense of
    > > people who are different.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413099, This is breaking news?
    > >
    > > Posted by Concerned GA Voter on 3/10/04 05:04 PM
    > >
    > > All you had to do is ask my ass cheeks........
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413216, People do not KNOW how to eat healthy
    > >
    > > Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 06:12 PM
    > >
    > > and their satiation point is far above what it should
    > > be. Huge servings are a pride and joy and denote
    > > abundance and wealth--continuous snacking on sugar laden
    > > cakes and candies is expected--vendor machines are all
    > > over the schools.
    > >
    > > When I went to school, there were no machines that
    > > contained juice, candy, potatoe chips, cookies and other
    > > little treats. We survived and we were not a fat
    > > generation.
    > >
    > > Walk down the cereal aisle and count, if you are as
    > > compulsive as I am, the number of cereals there-more
    > > than two hundred--all jumping with appealing cartoons,
    > > Nascar cars and bright color and beckoning to the little
    > > children-every single one of them contains added sugar--
    > > a lot of it. If it were not for the added vitamins, it
    > > would really be a worthless food. Yet, we are told that
    > > cereal is a good thing to feed your child and yourself.
    > > Add some milk to the fruity o's and you get the heart
    > > award. Many advertise they are "heart healthy" and that
    > > is because they are low fat. Most breads and grains are,
    > > but it says nothing about the deteriment to the health
    > > of the sugar added to almost everything on the
    > > supermarket shelf .
    > >
    > > The entire food corporate industry is dedicated to
    > > selling food to the American people any way they
    > > can sell
    > > it. Mostly advertising appeals to those who are
    > > fulfilling an image of the concerned mom who wants
    > > to feed her child the best there is. We think it
    > > just fine to eat and eat and eat because they tell
    > > us, subliminally, it is so wonderful to do so.
    > >
    > > And then we eat the sugar and indeed, feel wonderful.
    > >
    > > In other countries, this is not the case, but in
    > > America, and it is quite obvious we do have a lot of fat
    > > people here,they is no denying that, it is considered
    > > the normal way of eating. It is a constant eating and
    > > eating and giving the stomach little rest.
    > >
    > > One does not have a normal portion of french fries,
    > > containing maybe half a cup--you want, and think you
    > > deserve for your money, three times the serving size.
    > > And soon, even that does not "fill you up"
    > >
    > > Most people do not realize what a 'serving" consists of.
    > > Most cannot at this point discipline themself to eat
    > > only one serving of anything.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413272, I'm not sure if you're giving people too much
    > > credit,
    > >
    > > Posted by Robb on 3/10/04 06:50 PM
    > >
    > > or not enough. I think it's just like smoking. I don't
    > > know a single smoker who doesn't know it's just plain
    > > bad for you; I can't imagine there are consumers who
    > > think a big ol' drippy cheeseburger and fries is good
    > > for you.
    > >
    > > It's just both groups are very, very good at not
    > > thinking about it while they're partaking. And society
    > > has largely been pretty good at not pointing it out to
    > > them in the moment.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413310, Yes, that could be one way to look at it, but
    > >
    > > Posted by Marianne on 3/10/04 07:24 PM
    > >
    > > I was shocked when I found out what a "serving" was. It
    > > is half a cup, usually. That is, when one sees five
    > > servings of bread, pasta or whatever starches on the
    > > food pyramid, that is a half cup serving. If you eat two
    > > cups of pasta at one sitting, which I think is pretty
    > > much what people pile on their plate that is already
    > > four servings for the day. If the daily requirement on
    > > that pyramid is five servings and you had two pieces of
    > > toast in the morning, and bread with the pasta, and a
    > > sandwich for supper, you are way over the guidelines not
    > > to mention any starchy vegetables that you may have had,
    > > like potatoe salad with the sandwich. Now try measuring
    > > out half a cup of pasta and being satisfied with it.
    > > That is what I mean--we get a satiation tolerance far
    > > over what is recommended. In other words, if we do not
    > > have two cups of pasta we feel cheated.
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > 413317, Good ol' Corporate Amerikkka...
    > >
    > > Posted by I m With Stupid on 3/10/04 07:30 PM
    > >
    > > Look, advertising works. It's as simple as that. The
    > > corporate shills love to go on about Personal
    > > Responsibility, but the sad fact is that we're raised
    > > from infancy being told by business what to eat, what to
    > > drink, what to wear, what to watch, what to do, and what
    > > to think. It really isn't surprising that when they tell
    > > us to spend our wealth on poison and dump it into our
    > > bodies, the masses respond like trained sheep.
    > >
    > > Have you heard the latest? The neocons are arguing in
    > > the senate, right now, that we need a law protecting Big
    > > Heart Attack from legal action. Well, hell, I wonder who
    > > paid for that...?
    > >
    > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > >
    > > End of forwarded messages
    > >
    > > More here:
    > >
    > http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?-
    > az=show_topic&forum
    > =102&topic_id=
    > >
    > > Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti
    > >
    > > Panchaang for 20 Phalgun 5104, Wednesday, March
    > > 10, 2004:
    > >
    > > Shubhanu Nama Samvatsare Uttarayane Moksh Ritau Kumbh
    > > Mase Krshn Pakshe Buddh Vasara Yuktayam Svati-Vaishakh
    > > Nakshatr Vyaghat Yog Balav-Taitil Karan Chaturthi-
    > > Panchami Yam Tithau
    > >
    > > Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
    > >
    > > Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
    > > http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org
    > >
    > > The truth about Islam and Muslims
    > > http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
    > >
    > > o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used
    > > for the educational purposes of research and open
    > > discussion. The contents of this post may not have
    > > been authored by, and do not necessarily represent
    > > the opinion of the poster. The contents are
    > > protected by copyright law and the exemption for
    > > fair use of copyrighted works. o If you send
    > > private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
    > > considered or answered if it does not contain your
    > > full legal name, current e-mail and postal
    > > addresses, and live-voice telephone number. o
    > > Posted for information and discussion. Views
    > > expressed by others are not necessarily those of
    > > the poster.
     
  5. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:46:29 -0500, "Eugene Kent" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Why do you think everyone calls Americans fat-heads?

    We don't. That's reserved for those who respond to
    "Jai Maharaj".

    Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  6. Harmony

    Harmony Guest

    "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Study finds Americans are too fat
    >

    the day americans become 100 pct veggie is the day all wars
    will stop. imagine a slim and trim america loved by the
    whole world!!!
     
  7. Beav

    Beav Guest

    news:[email protected]...
    > > .. it means that fat moslem females must be ridiculed,
    > > lectured, and humiliated at every opportunity.
    >
    > This is why we laugh at moslem women. They are by far
    > the biggest
    fat-asses
    > I've ever seen.

    What a knobhead.
     
  8. In article <[email protected]>,
    "harmony" <[email protected]> posted:

    > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
    >
    >> Study finds Americans are too fat

    > the day americans become 100 pct veggie is the day all
    > wars will stop. imagine a slim and trim america loved by
    > the whole world!!!

    Visit the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine web
    site for excellent food recommendations:

    http://www.pcrm.org

    Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti
     
  9. Beav

    Beav Guest

    "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "harmony"
    > <[email protected]> posted:
    >
    > > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
    > >
    > >> Study finds Americans are too fat
    >
    > > the day americans become 100 pct veggie is the day all
    > > wars will stop. imagine a slim and trim america loved by
    > > the whole world!!!
    >
    > Visit the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
    > web site for excellent food recommendations:

    wanker.
     
  10. Beav

    Beav Guest

    "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "harmony"
    > <[email protected]> posted:
    >
    > > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
    > >
    > >> Study finds Americans are too fat
    >
    > > the day americans become 100 pct veggie is the day all
    > > wars will stop. imagine a slim and trim america loved by
    > > the whole world!!!
    >
    > Visit the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
    > web site for excellent food recommendations:

    wanker.
     
  11. In article <[email protected]>,
    "Beav" <[email protected]> posted:

    > Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message news:health-
    > [email protected]

    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > "harmony" <[email protected]> posted:
    > >
    > > > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
    > > >
    > > >> Study finds Americans are too fat

    > > > the day americans become 100 pct veggie is the day all
    > > > wars will stop. imagine a slim and trim america loved
    > > > by the whole world!!!

    > > Visit the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
    > > web site for excellent food recommendations:
    > >
    > > http://www.pcrm.org

    > wanker. - "Beav" <[email protected]>
    > <[email protected]>

    WARNING ABOUT KEVIN 'BEAVIS' MAXFIELD (MEDICAL FRAUD)

    Advisory

    Kevin Maxfield aka "Beavis" aka "Beav" who is a self-
    publicized patient of diabetes has committed serious
    crimes by dispensing medical advice to other patients on
    numerous occasions. He has published his contact
    information as follows:

    Kevin "Beavis" Maxfield 106 Churchill Drive Little Lever
    Bolton BL3 1PG UK

    "Beavis" <[email protected]> "Beavis"
    <[email protected]> "Beavis"
    <[email protected]>

    Picture:
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.maxfield/pictures/me.jpg

    Also, a picture of Britt, with the caption: "When she ain't
    cookin my meals she does find time to fly a heli!" http://h-
    omepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.maxfield/pictures/britt.JPG

    Forwarded message: [ [ Subject: Beav is a liar. Beware of
    advice he gives you! [ Message-ID:
    <[email protected]> [ From: Dennis Fetters
    <[email protected]> [ Newsgroups:
    misc.health.diabetes [ NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.122.164.63 [
    Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:08:38 GMT [ [ Greetings news group
    participants, [
    [ Iam sending this news to all newsgroups that the person [
    Beav <[email protected]> participates in, [
    especially that involves medical advice. You need to be
    [ concerned taking any medical advice from him
    whatsoever. [ Why? [ [ Over the years this person has
    flamed me and others, told [ lies and did harm all in
    the name of fun. This person [ could just as easily give
    you improper medical advice and [ sit back and laugh for
    the fun of it. Beware of him, he [ may act nice and
    helpful but there is an evil side. [ [ Just to help
    prove what I'm saying, I have given evidence [ below of
    just one lie he was caught making. I'm posting [ this so
    that from now on you can measure anything he has [ to
    say with what his words are actually worth. Beav is a [
    liar. I have proven without a shadow of dough that Beav
    [ is a liar. Sure, it is a small lie this time, but what
    [ about all the ones before, or after? [ [ On
    02/04/2003, you posted on the rec.aviation.rotorcraft
    news group: [ > Beav wrote: [ > He's also over on the
    R/C heli group looking for ideas [ > on how to build > a
    big RC machine which he SAYS is [ > destined for
    military (unmanned) use. [ [ That was an out in out lie.
    I never said such a thing. He [ made it up and lied to
    everyone there. [ [ What I said is below: [ [ On
    01/30/2003, I posted on rec.models.rc.helicopter: [ >
    Dennis Fetters wrote: [ > Hello, [ > [ > We have lot's
    of experience building full size [ > helicopters, but
    little knowledge in the RC field and [ > what's
    available. [ > [ > I have been contracted to provide a
    customer with two [ > large (400 pounds empty) prototype
    helicopters to be [ > flown by remote control. It is a
    CCPM controlled [ > configuration. I need to find
    servo's that are large [ > enough to handle at least a 5
    pound resistance per [ > arm, with a 3" travel. [ > [ >
    The control rods go through the center of the drive [ >
    shaft and connect to the control gimble below the [ >
    transmission, where 3 arms are located for both cyclic [
    > and collective inputs for the CCPM configuration. The
    [ > best solution would be 3 linear servo's, if
    something [ > preexists. [ > [ > Rather than reinvent
    the wheel, I hope someone would [ > be kind enough to
    provide me information on where to [ > find servo's
    large enough to do the job, or if a [ > linear servo can
    be used. The response time of these [ > large
    helicopters are much less than that of an RC [ > model.
    [ > [ > Also, if someone of high experience in RC
    helicopters [ > is interested in providing some help
    with the flights, [ > we're located in the California LA
    area. [ > [ > Sincerely, [ > [ > Dennis [ [ No where in
    this or any post did I say "it is destined [ for
    military (unmanned) use". Beav lied about that. [
    [ Jknow some of you here will say, well, it was just a [
    little lie. Well, any lie is a lie, big or small, and [
    Beav lied and has done much worse. He told this lie to
    [ hurt and do as much damage as he could, and it's time
    for [ all who deal with him to know. He has proven his
    [ willingness to lie and harm people just for fun, so [
    anything he says could be a lie or to cause more damage
    [ for his entertainment. [ [ Beav is a liar. Beware of
    advice he gives you! [ Arcchived at:.com/groups?selm=3E4BECF9.80308%40sbcglobal.net&oe=UTF-
    8&output=gplain

    End of advisory

    Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti
     
  12. In article <[email protected]>,
    "Beav" <[email protected]> posted:

    > Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message news:health-
    > [email protected]

    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > "harmony" <[email protected]> posted:
    > >
    > > > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
    > > >
    > > >> Study finds Americans are too fat

    > > > the day americans become 100 pct veggie is the day all
    > > > wars will stop. imagine a slim and trim america loved
    > > > by the whole world!!!

    > > Visit the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
    > > web site for excellent food recommendations:
    > >
    > > http://www.pcrm.org

    > wanker. - "Beav" <[email protected]>
    > <[email protected]>

    WARNING ABOUT KEVIN 'BEAVIS' MAXFIELD (MEDICAL FRAUD)

    Advisory

    Kevin Maxfield aka "Beavis" aka "Beav" who is a self-
    publicized patient of diabetes has committed serious
    crimes by dispensing medical advice to other patients on
    numerous occasions. He has published his contact
    information as follows:

    Kevin "Beavis" Maxfield 106 Churchill Drive Little Lever
    Bolton BL3 1PG UK

    "Beavis" <[email protected]> "Beavis"
    <[email protected]> "Beavis"
    <[email protected]>

    Picture:
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.maxfield/pictures/me.jpg

    Also, a picture of Britt, with the caption: "When she ain't
    cookin my meals she does find time to fly a heli!" http://h-
    omepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.maxfield/pictures/britt.JPG

    Forwarded message: [ [ Subject: Beav is a liar. Beware of
    advice he gives you! [ Message-ID:
    <[email protected]> [ From: Dennis Fetters
    <[email protected]> [ Newsgroups:
    misc.health.diabetes [ NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.122.164.63 [
    Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:08:38 GMT [ [ Greetings news group
    participants, [
    [ Iam sending this news to all newsgroups that the person [
    Beav <[email protected]> participates in, [
    especially that involves medical advice. You need to be
    [ concerned taking any medical advice from him
    whatsoever. [ Why? [ [ Over the years this person has
    flamed me and others, told [ lies and did harm all in
    the name of fun. This person [ could just as easily give
    you improper medical advice and [ sit back and laugh for
    the fun of it. Beware of him, he [ may act nice and
    helpful but there is an evil side. [ [ Just to help
    prove what I'm saying, I have given evidence [ below of
    just one lie he was caught making. I'm posting [ this so
    that from now on you can measure anything he has [ to
    say with what his words are actually worth. Beav is a [
    liar. I have proven without a shadow of dough that Beav
    [ is a liar. Sure, it is a small lie this time, but what
    [ about all the ones before, or after? [ [ On
    02/04/2003, you posted on the rec.aviation.rotorcraft
    news group: [ > Beav wrote: [ > He's also over on the
    R/C heli group looking for ideas [ > on how to build > a
    big RC machine which he SAYS is [ > destined for
    military (unmanned) use. [ [ That was an out in out lie.
    I never said such a thing. He [ made it up and lied to
    everyone there. [ [ What I said is below: [ [ On
    01/30/2003, I posted on rec.models.rc.helicopter: [ >
    Dennis Fetters wrote: [ > Hello, [ > [ > We have lot's
    of experience building full size [ > helicopters, but
    little knowledge in the RC field and [ > what's
    available. [ > [ > I have been contracted to provide a
    customer with two [ > large (400 pounds empty) prototype
    helicopters to be [ > flown by remote control. It is a
    CCPM controlled [ > configuration. I need to find
    servo's that are large [ > enough to handle at least a 5
    pound resistance per [ > arm, with a 3" travel. [ > [ >
    The control rods go through the center of the drive [ >
    shaft and connect to the control gimble below the [ >
    transmission, where 3 arms are located for both cyclic [
    > and collective inputs for the CCPM configuration. The
    [ > best solution would be 3 linear servo's, if
    something [ > preexists. [ > [ > Rather than reinvent
    the wheel, I hope someone would [ > be kind enough to
    provide me information on where to [ > find servo's
    large enough to do the job, or if a [ > linear servo can
    be used. The response time of these [ > large
    helicopters are much less than that of an RC [ > model.
    [ > [ > Also, if someone of high experience in RC
    helicopters [ > is interested in providing some help
    with the flights, [ > we're located in the California LA
    area. [ > [ > Sincerely, [ > [ > Dennis [ [ No where in
    this or any post did I say "it is destined [ for
    military (unmanned) use". Beav lied about that. [
    [ Jknow some of you here will say, well, it was just a [
    little lie. Well, any lie is a lie, big or small, and [
    Beav lied and has done much worse. He told this lie to
    [ hurt and do as much damage as he could, and it's time
    for [ all who deal with him to know. He has proven his
    [ willingness to lie and harm people just for fun, so [
    anything he says could be a lie or to cause more damage
    [ for his entertainment. [ [ Beav is a liar. Beware of
    advice he gives you! [ Arcchived at:.com/groups?selm=3E4BECF9.80308%40sbcglobal.net&oe=UTF-
    8&output=gplain

    End of advisory

    Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected]
    (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Beav" <[email protected]> posted:
    >
    >> Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message news:health-
    >> [email protected]
    >
    >> > In article <[email protected]>,
    >> > "harmony" <[email protected]> posted:
    >> >
    >> > > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
    >> > >
    >> > >> Study finds Americans are too fat

    americans aren`t overweight..most of the world is just
    underweight
    --
    >> > > the day americans become 100 pct veggie is the day
    >> > > all wars will stop. imagine a slim and trim america
    >> > > loved by the whole world!!!
    >
    >> > Visit the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
    >> > web site for excellent food recommendations:
    >> >
    >> > http://www.pcrm.org
    >

    >> wanker. - "Beav" <[email protected]>
    >> <[email protected]>
    >
    >WARNING ABOUT KEVIN 'BEAVIS' MAXFIELD (MEDICAL FRAUD)
    >
    >Advisory
    >
    >Kevin Maxfield aka "Beavis" aka "Beav" who is a self-
    >publicized patient of diabetes has committed serious
    >crimes by dispensing medical advice to other patients on
    >numerous occasions. He has published his contact
    >information as follows:
    >
    >Kevin "Beavis" Maxfield 106 Churchill Drive Little Lever
    >Bolton BL3 1PG UK
    >
    >"Beavis" <[email protected]> "Beavis"
    ><[email protected]> "Beavis"
    ><[email protected]>
    >
    >Picture: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.maxfield/pictu-
    >res/me.jpg
    >
    >Also, a picture of Britt, with the caption: "When she ain't
    >cookin my meals she does find time to fly a heli!" http://-
    >homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.maxfield/pictures/britt.JPG
    >
    >Forwarded message: [ [ Subject: Beav is a liar. Beware of
    >advice he gives you! [ Message-ID:
    ><[email protected]> [ From: Dennis Fetters
    ><[email protected]> [ Newsgroups:
    >misc.health.diabetes [ NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.122.164.63 [
    >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:08:38 GMT [ [ Greetings news
    >group participants, [
    > [ Iam sending this news to all newsgroups that the person
    > [ Beav <[email protected]> participates in,
    > [ especially that involves medical advice. You need to
    > be [ concerned taking any medical advice from him
    > whatsoever. [ Why? [ [ Over the years this person has
    > flamed me and others, told [ lies and did harm all in
    > the name of fun. This person [ could just as easily
    > give you improper medical advice and [ sit back and
    > laugh for the fun of it. Beware of him, he [ may act
    > nice and helpful but there is an evil side. [ [ Just to
    > help prove what I'm saying, I have given evidence [
    > below of just one lie he was caught making. I'm posting
    > [ this so that from now on you can measure anything he
    > has [ to say with what his words are actually worth.
    > Beav is a [ liar. I have proven without a shadow of
    > dough that Beav [ is a liar. Sure, it is a small lie
    > this time, but what [ about all the ones before, or
    > after? [ [ On 02/04/2003, you posted on the
    > rec.aviation.rotorcraft news group: [ > Beav wrote: [ >
    > He's also over on the R/C heli group looking for ideas
    > [ > on how to build > a big RC machine which he SAYS is
    > [ > destined for military (unmanned) use. [ [ That was
    > an out in out lie. I never said such a thing. He [ made
    > it up and lied to everyone there. [ [ What I said is
    > below: [ [ On 01/30/2003, I posted on
    > rec.models.rc.helicopter: [ > Dennis Fetters wrote: [ >
    > Hello, [ > [ > We have lot's of experience building
    > full size [ > helicopters, but little knowledge in the
    > RC field and [ > what's available. [ > [ > I have been
    > contracted to provide a customer with two [ > large
    > (400 pounds empty) prototype helicopters to be [ >
    > flown by remote control. It is a CCPM controlled [ >
    > configuration. I need to find servo's that are large [
    > > enough to handle at least a 5 pound resistance per [
    > > arm, with a 3" travel. [ > [ > The control rods go
    > through the center of the drive [ > shaft and connect
    > to the control gimble below the [ > transmission, where
    > 3 arms are located for both cyclic [ > and collective
    > inputs for the CCPM configuration. The [ > best
    > solution would be 3 linear servo's, if something [ >
    > preexists. [ > [ > Rather than reinvent the wheel, I
    > hope someone would [ > be kind enough to provide me
    > information on where to [ > find servo's large enough
    > to do the job, or if a [ > linear servo can be used.
    > The response time of these [ > large helicopters are
    > much less than that of an RC [ > model. [ > [ > Also,
    > if someone of high experience in RC helicopters [ > is
    > interested in providing some help with the flights, [ >
    > we're located in the California LA area. [ > [ >
    > Sincerely, [ > [ > Dennis [ [ No where in this or any
    > post did I say "it is destined [ for military
    > (unmanned) use". Beav lied about that. [
    > [ Iknow some of you here will say, well, it was just a [
    > little lie. Well, any lie is a lie, big or small, and
    > [ Beav lied and has done much worse. He told this lie
    > to [ hurt and do as much damage as he could, and it's
    > time for [ all who deal with him to know. He has
    > proven his [ willingness to lie and harm people just
    > for fun, so [ anything he says could be a lie or to
    > cause more damage [ for his entertainment. [ [ Beav is
    > a liar. Beware of advice he gives you! [ Arcchived at:
    > com/groups?selm=3E4BECF9.80308%40sbcglobal.net&oe=UTF-
    > 8&output=gplain
    >
    >End of advisory
    >
    >Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti
     
  14. Beav

    Beav Guest

  15. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Guest

    teh insane Gaymer wrote:

    > what`s the equivalent of a wanker here?

    Maybe a jerk off, although doesn't have quite the same ring
    as wanker.
     
  16. Just a thought, working the whole advice line here, I could
    advise someone to jump from a cliff and it would be morally
    incorrect but would it break laws? No. If someone offers
    advice, it is up to the recipient to filter and verify that
    advice for themselves before acting upon it. Medical advice
    may well be a more emotive and challenging issue yet I'm
    sure that anyone in a given situation be it diabetes or just
    a headache has a routine or procedure that works for THEM, I
    see no harm or legal implications that I know of in offering
    that advice to someone in a comparable situation to your
    own. Had you provided evidence of Kevin (Beav) posing as a
    medical professional and offering treatment or diagnosis
    then a whole new line is crossed however, we at the
    rc.helicopter newsgroup had the chance to read all of the
    paraphrased section posted below. I personally find it
    "interesting" that someone should want to build such a large
    rc helicopter when the development costs alone may well
    outstrip the costs of the temporary use of a full sized
    machine for the task in hand and again Kevin's reply is not
    actually posted in full or in part below; merely an
    interpretation of it. I therefore am only able to draw from
    this post that someone has a bit of bad blood somewhere
    along the line and has decided that today is an appropriate
    time to voice these issues. Bearing that in mind I think I
    shall be filtering out this bit of advice as something that
    has no place or evident grounding upon which I could make a
    judgment as to Kevin's character.

    Just my 2 cents worth.....or as Beav puts it Wan%£r!

    Andy

    "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:health-
    [email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Beav" <[email protected]> posted:
    >
    > > Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message news:health-
    > > [email protected]
    >
    > > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > > "harmony" <[email protected]> posted:
    > > >
    > > > > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
    > > > >
    > > > >> Study finds Americans are too fat
    >
    > > > > the day americans become 100 pct veggie is the day
    > > > > all wars will
    stop.
    > > > > imagine a slim and trim america loved by the whole
    > > > > world!!!
    >
    > > > Visit the Physicians Committee for Responsible
    > > > Medicine web site for excellent food recommendations:
    > > >
    > > > http://www.pcrm.org
    >

    > > wanker. - "Beav" <[email protected]>
    <[email protected]>
    >
    > WARNING ABOUT KEVIN 'BEAVIS' MAXFIELD (MEDICAL FRAUD)
    >
    > Advisory
    >
    > Kevin Maxfield aka "Beavis" aka "Beav" who is a self-
    > publicized patient of diabetes has committed serious
    > crimes by dispensing medical advice to other patients on
    > numerous occasions. He has published his contact
    > information as follows:
    >
    > Kevin "Beavis" Maxfield 106 Churchill Drive Little Lever
    > Bolton BL3 1PG UK
    >
    > "Beavis" <[email protected]> "Beavis"
    > <[email protected]> "Beavis"
    > <[email protected]>
    >
    > Picture: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.maxfield/pict-
    > ures/me.jpg
    >
    > Also, a picture of Britt, with the caption: "When she
    > ain't cookin my meals she does find time to fly a
    > heli!" http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.maxfield/pic-
    > tures/britt.JPG
    >
    > Forwarded message: [ [ Subject: Beav is a liar. Beware of
    > advice he gives you! [ Message-ID:
    > <[email protected]> [ From: Dennis Fetters
    > <[email protected]> [ Newsgroups:
    > misc.health.diabetes [ NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.122.164.63 [
    > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:08:38 GMT [ [ Greetings news
    > group participants, [
    > [ Iam sending this news to all newsgroups that the person
    > [ Beav <[email protected]> participates in,
    > [ especially that involves medical advice. You need to
    > be [ concerned taking any medical advice from him
    > whatsoever. [ Why? [ [ Over the years this person has
    > flamed me and others, told [ lies and did harm all in
    > the name of fun. This person [ could just as easily
    > give you improper medical advice and [ sit back and
    > laugh for the fun of it. Beware of him, he [ may act
    > nice and helpful but there is an evil side. [ [ Just
    > to help prove what I'm saying, I have given evidence [
    > below of just one lie he was caught making. I'm
    > posting [ this so that from now on you can measure
    > anything he has [ to say with what his words are
    > actually worth. Beav is a [ liar. I have proven
    > without a shadow of dough that Beav [ is a liar. Sure,
    > it is a small lie this time, but what [ about all the
    > ones before, or after? [ [ On 02/04/2003, you posted
    > on the rec.aviation.rotorcraft news group: [ > Beav
    > wrote: [ > He's also over on the R/C heli group
    > looking for ideas [ > on how to build > a big RC
    > machine which he SAYS is [ > destined for military
    > (unmanned) use. [ [ That was an out in out lie. I
    > never said such a thing. He [ made it up and lied to
    > everyone there. [ [ What I said is below: [ [ On
    > 01/30/2003, I posted on rec.models.rc.helicopter: [ >
    > Dennis Fetters wrote: [ > Hello, [ > [ > We have lot's
    > of experience building full size [ > helicopters, but
    > little knowledge in the RC field and [ > what's
    > available. [ > [ > I have been contracted to provide a
    > customer with two [ > large (400 pounds empty)
    > prototype helicopters to be [ > flown by remote
    > control. It is a CCPM controlled [ > configuration. I
    > need to find servo's that are large [ > enough to
    > handle at least a 5 pound resistance per [ > arm, with
    > a 3" travel. [ > [ > The control rods go through the
    > center of the drive [ > shaft and connect to the
    > control gimble below the [ > transmission, where 3
    > arms are located for both cyclic [ > and collective
    > inputs for the CCPM configuration. The [ > best
    > solution would be 3 linear servo's, if something [ >
    > preexists. [ > [ > Rather than reinvent the wheel, I
    > hope someone would [ > be kind enough to provide me
    > information on where to [ > find servo's large enough
    > to do the job, or if a [ > linear servo can be used.
    > The response time of these [ > large helicopters are
    > much less than that of an RC [ > model. [ > [ > Also,
    > if someone of high experience in RC helicopters [ > is
    > interested in providing some help with the flights, [
    > > we're located in the California LA area. [ > [ >
    > Sincerely, [ > [ > Dennis [ [ No where in this or any
    > post did I say "it is destined [ for military
    > (unmanned) use". Beav lied about that. [
    > [ Iknow some of you here will say, well, it was just a [
    > little lie. Well, any lie is a lie, big or small, and
    > [ Beav lied and has done much worse. He told this lie
    > to [ hurt and do as much damage as he could, and it's
    > time for [ all who deal with him to know. He has
    > proven his [ willingness to lie and harm people just
    > for fun, so [ anything he says could be a lie or to
    > cause more damage [ for his entertainment. [ [ Beav
    > is a liar. Beware of advice he gives you! [ Arcchived
    > at:
    >
    oogle.com/groups?selm=3E4BECF9.80308%40sbcglobal.net&oe=UTF-
    8&ou tput=gplain
    >
    > End of advisory
    >
    > Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti
     
  17. Beav

    Beav Guest

    "Norfolk and Chance" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Just a thought, working the whole advice line here, I
    > could advise someone to jump from a cliff and it would be
    > morally incorrect but would it break laws? No. If someone
    > offers advice, it is up to the recipient to filter
    and
    > verify that advice for themselves before acting upon it.
    > Medical advice
    may
    > well be a more emotive and challenging issue yet I'm sure
    > that anyone in a given situation be it diabetes or just a
    > headache has a routine or
    procedure
    > that works for THEM, I see no harm or legal implications
    > that I know of in offering that advice to someone in a
    > comparable situation to your own. Had you provided
    > evidence of Kevin (Beav) posing as a medical professional
    > and offering treatment or diagnosis then a whole new line
    > is crossed however,
    we
    > at the rc.helicopter newsgroup had the chance to read
    > all of the
    paraphrased
    > section posted below. I personally find it "interesting"
    > that someone
    should
    > want to build such a large rc helicopter when the
    > development costs alone may well outstrip the costs of the
    > temporary use of a full sized machine
    for
    > the task in hand and again Kevin's reply is not actually
    > posted in full or in part below; merely an interpretation
    > of it. I therefore am only able to draw from this post
    > that someone has a bit of bad blood somewhere along
    the
    > line and has decided that today is an appropriate time to
    > voice these issues.

    Stevens (Jai Ma's real name) just hates it when he's called
    a spammer Andy. I just hate spammers:)

    Bearing that in mind I think I shall be filtering out
    this bit of
    > advice as something that has no place or evident grounding
    > upon which I could make a judgment as to Kevin's
    > character.
    >
    > Just my 2 cents worth.....or as Beav puts it Wan%£r!

    He's that and more, but you know me, sweet of mouth :))

    Beav
     
  18. Beav,

    You've always in my experience, not been one to mince your
    words but who exactly does this joker think he is? If
    someone posted a pic of me and my partner I'd be taking
    advice from David and purchasing some lengths of scaffold,
    raptor tail booms bend too easily!!

    I'll join the pro-beav queue on this one mate!!

    Andy
     
  19. Beav

    Beav Guest

    "Norfolk and Chance" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Beav,
    >
    > You've always in my experience, not been one to mince your
    > words but who exactly does this joker think he is?

    Tat's a bit of a mystery Andy. He calls hiself doctor, but
    he's no more a doctor than I'm a bleedin' astronaut.

    If someone posted a pic of me and my
    > partner I'd be taking advice from David and purchasing
    > some lengths of scaffold, raptor tail booms bend too
    > easily!!

    And that's what tossers like him want to see happe, but I
    can't be arsed wasting time on him. I've already published
    the pics on my web site, so it's not like I'm bothered about
    people knowing what I look like anyway, but at least I don't
    feel the need to fool the world into thinking I'm a doctor
    like he does.
    >
    > I'll join the pro-beav queue on this one mate!!

    That's another one on th' eye for tosspot then:)

    Cheers

    --
    Beav

    Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at
    ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes)

    Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk
     
Loading...