Studying The Martial Arts



Berend de Boer wrote:

>>>>>> "S" == S C Lindsay <[email protected]> writes:
>
> S> To be honest I live in Brittain so the chances of being threatened with a gun are fairly
> S> small and I have to admit that even if I did carry a gun if someone ppointed a gun at me
> S> and demanded my wallet then I wouldnt try going for the gun anyway, not worth dying for :)
>
> Nope, especially if you live in Britain you have to watch out for guns. The statistics don't
> support your position, you're just echoing your governments propaganda.
>
>

80 something people are killed in Brittain each year by guns, in AMerica 11,000 people are killed by
them. It's nothing the government has told me that makes me not worry about guns, it's the fact that
in my entire life I can never remmber a gun murder being reported in any local paper. Of course I
live in the North where we re a lot less likely to be shot than peopole who live in the South if I
remember the stats correctly.

Stephen
 
>>>>> "S" == S C Lindsay <[email protected]> writes:

S> 80 something people are killed in Brittain each year by guns,

What a luck that only guns kill people. BTW, usually we express homicides in X per 100,000. Makes
for a fairer comparison, in case you try to dig up the real figures.

S> in AMerica 11,000 people are killed by them.

Perhaps Bowling for Columbine isn't the answer if you're looking for facts.

--
Regards,

Berend. (-:
 
Berend de Boer wrote:
>>>>>>"S" == S C Lindsay <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
> S> 80 something people are killed in Brittain each year by guns,
>
> What a luck that only guns kill people. BTW, usually we express homicides in X per 100,000. Makes
> for a fairer comparison, in case you try to dig up the real figures.
>
>
> S> in AMerica 11,000 people are killed by them.
>
> Perhaps Bowling for Columbine isn't the answer if you're looking for facts.

Source: United nation survey: http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sv.pdf It is a
extensive research, so I picked some data.

Since sweden (my country) was not included I picked norway instead (our neghbour and social "twin"
country). Since USA was involved I picked them. England, germany, france and spain represent old
europe. the rest I picked for comparison (and russia since they had so high homocide rate that it
realy stood out). The research only covered 1998-2000, and USA had no data for 2000. So I choosed
1999 All numbers are reported incidents per 100,000 inhabitants a " - " indicates no data available
that year. It does not indicates that no incidents occured.

intentional Homocides / homocides with firearms: England 1,45 / 0,12 United states 4,55 / 2,97
Germany 1,22 / 0,5 Finland 2,77 / - (but 0,43 the year before) Spain 1,16 / 0,21 Norway 0,83 / -
Netherlands 1,42 / - Mexico 15,13 / 4,54 Russia 19,27 / - France 1,63 / - Japan 0,53 / - Canada 1,58
/ 0,54 Australia 1,81 / 0,31
 
>>>>> "MH" == MH <[email protected]> writes:

MH> Source: United nation survey: http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sv.pdf It is a
MH> extensive research, so I picked some data.

Yep, these are better numbers. Two things though: the US is heading towards less homicides per
100,000, England is increasing. According to a UN survey end 2002, England and Wales now have the
highest crime rate of the world's 20 leading nations:

Meanwhile, America's traditionally high and England and Wales's traditionally low murder rates
are remorselessly converging. In 1981, the US rate was nine times higher than the English. By
1995, it was six times. Last year, it was down to 3.5. ... New York has just recorded the lowest
murder rate since the 19th century. I'll bet that in the next two years London's murder rate
overtakes it.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5406

Or else read this on crime in general:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;$sessionid$AXFNQQMS3JVHHQFIQMFSFF4AVCBQ0IV0?xml=/op-
inion/2004/01/06/do0602.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/01/06/ixopinion.html

Quote:

In my part of the world, that's virtually unknown. In America as a whole, 12.7 per cent of
burglaries are of "occupied homes"; in Britain, it's 59 per cent. Installing a laser system may
make your property more secure, but it makes you less so. As for Ann Widung's "culture of fear",
it's not American therapists but English ones who've made a lucrative speciality out of treating
children traumatised by such burglaries.

In America as a whole, 12.7 per cent of burglaries are of "occupied homes"; in Britain, it's
59 per cent.

--
Regards,

Berend. (-:
 
[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >"Matt" <[email protected]> wrote: ********! My Gun-Fu
> >is far more deadly.
>
> "Gun Fu"? You mean gun, right? You're saying that your gun
> is more reliable than any martial arts. That's so damn
> lazy of you. Here's the flaw in your argument, you
> certainly do not carry a gun on you 24 hours a day. I can
> show you some moves where even if you use a gun, your own
> gun can be turned against you in the blink of an eye.
>
> Have you ever gone into a meeting full of strange people
> where they frisk you for weapons before you enter? I have,
> everyone has, of course, every day.
>
> I have a question for you. If you were on an airplane,
> and it was hijacked by a bunch of weirdos with box
> cutters, & you certainly would not have gun on you in
> that situation, you would not have that crutch on you,
> the crutch you call "Gun-Fu". What are you going to do in
> a situation like that?
>

uhhh kick him in the head? good luck!
 
> Someone demonstrated the power of Tae Kwon Do against a
> wild raging Bull in a metador situation. By the time the
> martial artist was done, the Bull was so badly mangled, it
> was classified "not fit for human consumption".

I don't know about that...But I do know that Mas Oyama used
to fight bull's all the time.He is the founder of
Kyokushinkai Karate. He would reportedly punch the bull out
with one punch.

As for TKD being the "best", that is a matter of opinion.
Like I said in a previous thread, there is no "best" martial
art, just a Martial Art that is "best for your liking". I do
no like TKD for me because I see no use for high kicks, I
find it too sport oriented (in most TKD schools however
there are some exceptions). And if the attacker gets in
close the TKD person has a limited arsenal as predominantly
study as if the attacker was 2+ feet away.

I am not trashing TKD, but as a martial art it does not have
what I am looking for.

Dale

Ichi Kyu (Brown) Goju Ryu Karate
 
DS wrote:
> He is the founder of Kyokushinkai Karate. He would
> reportedly punch the bull out with one punch.

That was already done in Blazing Saddles. Mongo knocks out
a horse when the owner *****es about him riding a bull
into town. :)

<snip good reasons>
> I am not trashing TKD, but as a martial art it does not
> have what I am looking for.

Extremely fair view. Martial Arts is a heck of a lot more
than self defense though. It should benefit your mind, your
cardiac, and overall health. It should be part of a healthy
lifestyle that also includes things like eating right,
having medical checkups, taking vitamins, weight training,
challenging your mind with reading and continued education,
donating (time and money) to charity, etc. I get the feeling
that lots of folks study martial arts just for self defense.
Is that true? Avoiding bad situations will do more for you
than anything else. Stay away from bad neighborhoods, keep
your phone unlisted, never discuss being away on your
answering machine, pick your kids up from the school bus and
don't make them walk, avoid using ATM's at night and in
quiet areas, never leave your car running while leaving it,
always lock your car and house up, never start fights in
biker bars, etc. I bet you can look at a large amount of
attacks that occur in USA and see that common sense could
have eliminated the incident from happening. Oh yeah, and
once in that situation martial arts can save your ass. :)
But so can a gun, mace, taser, or simple defensive training
at your local PC or YMCA.

--
________________________
Pear pimples for hairy fishnuts?
 
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:51:09 -0500, "DS" <[email protected]> wrote:

>IBut I do know that Mas Oyama used to fight bull's all the
>time.He is the founder of Kyokushinkai Karate. He would
>reportedly punch the bull out with one punch.
>

I have heard these stories discredited. You might want to
make a search on that.

-Jake
 
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:25:27 GMT, "Opus Penguin"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I get the feeling that lots of folks study martial arts
> just for self defense. Is that true? Avoiding bad
> situations will do more for you than anything else. Stay
> away from bad neighborhoods, keep your phone unlisted,
> never discuss being away on your answering machine, pick
> your kids up from the school bus and don't make them
> walk, avoid using ATM's at night and in quiet areas,
> never leave your car running while leaving it, always
> lock your car and house up, never start fights in biker
> bars, etc. I bet you can look at a large amount of
> attacks that occur in USA and see that common sense
> could have eliminated the incident from happening. Oh
> yeah, and once in that situation martial arts can save
> your ass. :) But so can a gun, mace, taser, or simple
> defensive training at your local PC or YMCA.

I think MA effectiveness as self defence is routinely
overstated. Anytime you are in a fighting situation with
just your bare hands for defence you are in a *bad*
situation. People who have a real need for slf defence will
be best served by following the preventative measures you
have written, get a gun, etc.

Maybe and as a distant tertiary plan maybe take MA lessons,
but understand the limitations, and how your time may be
better used.

-Jake
 
I think Brazilian Jui-Jitsu's the best MA in terms of real
world fighting. I've seen hundreds of mixed martial arts, no
holds barred fights on DVD over the years. The fighters with
a Jui-Jitsu (or Roman-Greco wrestling) background with a bit
of cross-training in striking (Karate, TKD, kickboxing,
boxing) mixed in usually win. The reason why is that most
fights end up on the ground, unless the striker gets lucky
with a hit or kick that knocks the other guy out. If you
throw a few hits or kicks at a werstler or Jui-Jitsu guy,
they'll grab you, take you down, and do nasty things like
break your bones or dislocate your joints.

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different
Servers! =-----
 
Jake wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:51:09 -0500, "DS" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>IBut I do know that Mas Oyama used to fight bull's all the
>>time.He is the founder of Kyokushinkai Karate. He would
>>reportedly punch the bull out with one punch.
>>
>
>
> I have heard these stories discredited. You might want to
> make a search on that.
>

Oyama never punched out bulls with one punch. He wrestled
them down and broke of their horns with a strike. He
supposedly killed atleast one bull, but mostly he went for
the horns. And wrestling down a bull is done in rodeos all
the time. Very good publicity back in the middle 50ies (way
before blazing saddles :) and helped him establish his
style, but it has realy not much to do with the karate he
taught and practiced.

About the stories being fake, that is a reference to Jon
Bluming, a student of oyama who was kicked out, who stated
that "oyama never fought a real bull, because he never went
to spain". Oyama did go to mexico and was gored by the horn
of a mexican bull, though. He also says he recomended that
the movies of Oyama fighting bulls should not be released in
europe, since they didnt look good. Bluming has made himself
known by trashtalking basicaly everyone he ever has been in
contact, with while claiming to be the best martial artist
ever himself. Most of his trashtalk only reflects his own
poor attitudes and lack of knowledge about things after he
left japan, and esp after he was expelled from the
organization by Oyama long ago. Ofcourse he said nothing
while Oyama was still alive.
 
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:09:39 GMT, MH
<[email protected]> wrote:

> He wrestled them down and broke of their horns with a
> strike. He supposedly killed atleast one bull, but mostly
> he went for the horns.

I recall somewhere that Oyama had the bull's horn sawn
through, and that a photo of the chopped ofF horn showed
this. I have a vague recollection of seeing such a photo
in a book.

Anyone?

-Jake
 
Jake wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:09:39 GMT, MH
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>He wrestled them down and broke of their horns with a
>>strike. He supposedly killed atleast one bull, but mostly
>>he went for the horns.
>
>
> I recall somewhere that Oyama had the bull's horn sawn
> through, and that a photo of the chopped ofF horn showed
> this. I have a vague recollection of seeing such a photo
> in a book.

the only one with any kind of "inside" information making
claims that the bullfights being faked is Bluming, and he
didnt have any photos. Actualy he reveals his sources as
hearsay from unnamed individuals. "Someone later told me" is
a common line in his book where he makes the claims. He
mixes a bit of truth and halftruths, with a lot of lies,
missconceptions, assumptions and outright propaganda. One of
my favourite is where he claims that the uchi-dechi (full
time-live in students) was forced to spend several hours a
day advertizing the school. As evidence he points to a book
where the daily scheadule of the students is listed. He
fails however to mention, that the scheadule was for the few
weeks leading up to the first world open championship
organized by the style, and the advertizing was for that
very specific event. Bluming is not exactly without a
personal agenda in making his claims.

Personaly I dont see the problem with oyama wrestlig down a
few bulls and breaking their horns. Bull wrestling is common
in rodeos, and chopping of a horn is not that impossible
given the right leverage and angle. good publicity, even if
it didnt have much to do with karate.
 
Actually you guys are ALL wrong!

Chinese martial art are for show...they can never fight
with bulls...not even tiny beagle...don't tALK it for
sanity sake...

Karate are for both show and fighting bulls...Karate teaches
you all the tricks a player needs to bring down a bull, and
teaches you the weak points in the balance of the body of a
bull, be it a 4-leg or 2 leg angrybull...

Tae Kwon Doo is for fighting bulls...really!!! You know
what, TKD emphasizes on legs...A TKD player can always beat
a bull, TKD kicks but a bull can't kick...when he can't beat
the bull, he has two well trained legs to run...:p

Kelvin @ SG

"DS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
>
> >
> > Someone demonstrated the power of Tae Kwon Do against a
> > wild raging Bull in a metador situation. By the time the
> > martial artist was done, the Bull was so badly mangled,
> > it was classified "not fit for human consumption".
>
>
> I don't know about that...But I do know that Mas Oyama
> used to fight
bull's
> all the time.He is the founder of Kyokushinkai Karate. He
> would reportedly punch the bull out with one punch.
>
> As for TKD being the "best", that is a matter of opinion.
> Like I said in a previous thread, there is no "best"
> martial art, just a Martial Art that
is
> "best for your liking". I do no like TKD for me because I
> see no use for high kicks, I find it too sport oriented
> (in most TKD schools however
there
> are some exceptions). And if the attacker gets in close
> the TKD person has
a
> limited arsenal as predominantly study as if the attacker
> was 2+ feet
away.
>
> I am not trashing TKD, but as a martial art it does not
> have what I am looking for.
>
> Dale
>
> Ichi Kyu (Brown) Goju Ryu Karate
 
So, basically what you are saying is that.....it is all
bull. Matthew

"Kelvin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Actually you guys are ALL wrong!
>
> Chinese martial art are for show...they can never fight
> with bulls...not even tiny beagle...don't tALK it for
> sanity sake...
>
> Karate are for both show and fighting bulls...Karate
> teaches you all the tricks a player needs to bring down a
> bull, and teaches you the weak points in the balance of
> the body of
a
> bull, be it a 4-leg or 2 leg angrybull...
>
> Tae Kwon Doo is for fighting bulls...really!!! You know
> what, TKD
emphasizes
> on legs...A TKD player can always beat a bull, TKD kicks
> but a bull can't kick...when he can't beat the bull, he
> has two well trained legs to run...:p
>
> Kelvin @ SG
>
>
>
>
> "DS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:p[email protected]...
> >
> > >
> > > Someone demonstrated the power of Tae Kwon Do against
> > > a wild raging
Bull
> > > in a metador situation. By the time the martial artist
> > > was done, the Bull was so badly mangled, it was
> > > classified "not fit for human consumption".
> >
> >
> > I don't know about that...But I do know that Mas Oyama
> > used to fight
> bull's
> > all the time.He is the founder of Kyokushinkai Karate.
> > He would
reportedly
> > punch the bull out with one punch.
> >
> > As for TKD being the "best", that is a matter of
> > opinion. Like I said in
a
> > previous thread, there is no "best" martial art, just a
> > Martial Art that
> is
> > "best for your liking". I do no like TKD for me because
> > I see no use for high kicks, I find it too sport
> > oriented (in most TKD schools however
> there
> > are some exceptions). And if the attacker gets in close
> > the TKD person
has
> a
> > limited arsenal as predominantly study as if the
> > attacker was 2+ feet
> away.
> >
> > I am not trashing TKD, but as a martial art it does not
> > have what I am looking for.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > Ichi Kyu (Brown) Goju Ryu Karate
> >
>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom Back