Stupid LBS tricks

[damyth]

Donald Gillies wrote:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >Dear Don,
>
> >Andrew Muzi at www.yellowjersey.org disagrees with you:
>
> >"Like their ancestors, Campagnolo 1013s, a nice film of oil or grease
> >on clean surfaces moves easily and stays put."
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/615fd82737503d34
>
> Carl,
>
> The 1013 is a one-sided shifter of 1960 with no thumb screw.
>
> There are at least 4 versions of the 1014 shifters ( I know because I
> have all of them ), each has a different type of washer material
> and/or thumb screw depth. Which ones are you ascribing to Andrew
> Muzi's comments ??
>
> I think you might want to bring these typos to the attention of Andrew
> Muzi, not myself.
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA

Nice diversion attempt. Why don't YOU go look up the catalogs at
campyonly.com, say the ones from 60's (the era you cite). There you
will certainly find 1013 levers with D-ring thumb screws. I'd like to
see you dodge this.

You asserted earlier that I was quoting info from some late 80's
C-Record indexed shifter. I'll have you know I was in the business
well before Valentino took over. Indexing at Campy never took place
afaik under Tullio's reign.

Any wrench worth their salt who worked under Tullio's reign knows that
shifter internals need a light layer of grease. If you bothered to
study campy shifter internals you'd understand why. They performed way
better (and stayed that way) than dry levers.

 

[[email protected]]

damyth wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Snippage
>
> This is the prime example of "no good deed goes unpunished."
>
Snippage
> Back in the day, it was very rare where I didn't have to grind off the
> shifter screw by 1mm or more cause there was always brass or some other
> junk in the boss, even on new frames. I'd say I had to grind off at
> least one screw on each bike 75% of the time.
>
> And to the OP, you can easily test the theory that the screw is
> bottoming out by installing a washer betw. the screw head and the
> outmost shifter assembly. I'd wager the auto-shift problem goes away.

I was interested in the rider blaming frame flex for the shifter
backing off and I could not help thinking back to the Mexican built
Benottos where just about every frame cracked due to overheating at the
welds..

"My bike shifts on its own!, I'll just be riding along and go over a
bump and it startsshifting all over the place!"

Not sure which shifters I'm rembembering at this point but I would look
for excess wear on the internal washers or even missing washers..

 

[[email protected]]

damyth wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Snippage
>
> This is the prime example of "no good deed goes unpunished."
>
Snippage
> Back in the day, it was very rare where I didn't have to grind off the
> shifter screw by 1mm or more cause there was always brass or some other
> junk in the boss, even on new frames. I'd say I had to grind off at
> least one screw on each bike 75% of the time.
>
> And to the OP, you can easily test the theory that the screw is
> bottoming out by installing a washer betw. the screw head and the
> outmost shifter assembly. I'd wager the auto-shift problem goes away.

I was interested in the rider blaming frame flex for the shifter
backing off and I could not help thinking back to the Mexican built
Benottos where just about every frame cracked due to overheating at the
welds..

"My bike shifts on its own!, I'll just be riding along and go over a
bump and it startsshifting all over the place!"

Not sure which shifters I'm rembembering at this point but I would look
for excess wear on the internal washers or even missing washers..

 

[Vee]

David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:57:24 -0700, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>
> > A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
> > (it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
> > LBS for parts).
> >
> > The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
> >
> > My /friction/ shifters.
>
> Explain to me again the advantage of going to a shop to maintain the bike?

Isn't this is the guy who had a conniption when he bought a new wheel
(130mm hub) but he couldn't figure out how to make it fit his shabby
old bike (126mm Holdsworth)? If so, there's your answer: some people
couldn't do worse than service the bike themselves.

-Vee

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
> (it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
> LBS for parts).
>
> The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
>
> My /friction/ shifters.
>
> Now every time I get out of the saddle and hammer, the varying pull on
> the front der cable (because of the flex in my steel frame) tugs the
> lever to a slacker position, dropping the der halfway to shifting off
> the big ring, so every time I sit down I have to readjust the lever.
>
> The tension screw is plenty tight, in case you're wondering. I should
> get in there with some solvent sometime soon.
>
> Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be wrenches.

greasing by itself, may not be tyour problem. Hopefully when he
reassembled them, he put all the stuff back in, in the proper order. Is
the bolt unscrewing? A wee bit of blue octite on the threads. BTW-I
lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't move..
>
> --Blair

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:23:44 -0700, Vee wrote:

> David L. Johnson wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:57:24 -0700, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>
>> > A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
>> > (it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
>> > LBS for parts).
>> >
>> > The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
>> >
>> > My /friction/ shifters.
>>
>> Explain to me again the advantage of going to a shop to maintain the bike?
>
> Isn't this is the guy who had a conniption when he bought a new wheel
> (130mm hub) but he couldn't figure out how to make it fit his shabby
> old bike (126mm Holdsworth)? If so, there's your answer: some people
> couldn't do worse than service the bike themselves.

No, it isn't.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
_`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
(_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

 

[[email protected]]

On 19 Sep 2006 16:48:26 -0700, [email protected] (Donald Gillies)
wrote:

>[email protected] writes:
>
>>Dear Don,
>
>>Andrew Muzi at www.yellowjersey.org disagrees with you:
>
>>"Like their ancestors, Campagnolo 1013s, a nice film of oil or grease
>>on clean surfaces moves easily and stays put."
>
>>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/615fd82737503d34
>
>Carl,
>
>I think you might want to take this up with Andrew Muzi.
>
>
>- Don Gillies
>San Diego, CA

Dear Don,

Elsewhere in this thread, Peter Chisholm says pretty much the same
thing as Andrew Muzi:

"BTW-I lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't
move."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....AIpTlND5Jq1s51CuVPoUOqoYLOS5LcsqPUriQ3-TYFt02
or http://tinyurl.com/z24r4

In general, metal parts intended to move against each other are going
to do better when lubricated.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Vee]

David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:23:44 -0700, Vee wrote:
>
> > David L. Johnson wrote:
> >> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:57:24 -0700, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>
> >> > A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
> >> > (it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
> >> > LBS for parts).
> >> >
> >> > The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
> >> >
> >> > My /friction/ shifters.
> >>
> >> Explain to me again the advantage of going to a shop to maintain the bike?
> >
> > Isn't this is the guy who had a conniption when he bought a new wheel
> > (130mm hub) but he couldn't figure out how to make it fit his shabby
> > old bike (126mm Holdsworth)? If so, there's your answer: some people
> > couldn't do worse than service the bike themselves.
>
> No, it isn't.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> __o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
> _`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
> (_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
> kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

My apologies to the OP.

-Vee

 

[Dion Dock]

Do you still use 5-speed freewheels? If they were so important, why did you
switch to 8-speed?

-Dion

"David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> When I had my frame cold set to 130mm, I also took in my rear wheels to
> have them re-dished and to put 8-speed freewheels on them. They returned
> my old 5-speed freewheels in a bag, since they had no idea how to remove
> them. They had taken the freewheels apart and chocked the inner core in a
> vice.
>
> Last time I took anything to them, clearly.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Campy's been making stuff for almost 75 years. You are quoting
> information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
> something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
> shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position if
> you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA

Don: My Iron Pig (rain bike) has Campy 1014 downtube shifters, and I've
*always* applied a light amount of grease to the metal/metal contact points.
Otherwise you just get "scratchy" shifting from the abrasion between the
surfaces. It does make it a challenge to make sure things are tight enough
though. Lubing the tightening screw is a definite requirement, and sometimes
replacing the plastic pieces can make a world of difference (perhaps some
are harder than others, or become harder with age?).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Donald Gillies" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "damyth" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>I don't know where you come from, but friction shifters are SUPPOSED to
>>be lightly greased, especially campy ones. That wrench knows his
>>stuff. The grease allows the shifters to be tightened sufficiently to
>>achieve smooth progressive lever movement (w/o slipping) instead of
>>"ratcheting" action.
>
> Campy's been making stuff for almost 75 years. You are quoting
> information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
> something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
> shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position if
> you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> greasing by itself, may not be tyour problem. Hopefully when he
> reassembled them, he put all the stuff back in, in the proper order. Is
> the bolt unscrewing? A wee bit of blue octite on the threads. BTW-I
> lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't move..

Sorry, has to be 1014 or older to be truly retro. Heck, C-Record levers can
probably be used with a triple without doing a complete 360. Faux retro in
my book.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
>> (it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
>> LBS for parts).
>>
>> The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
>>
>> My /friction/ shifters.
>>
>> Now every time I get out of the saddle and hammer, the varying pull on
>> the front der cable (because of the flex in my steel frame) tugs the
>> lever to a slacker position, dropping the der halfway to shifting off
>> the big ring, so every time I sit down I have to readjust the lever.
>>
>> The tension screw is plenty tight, in case you're wondering. I should
>> get in there with some solvent sometime soon.
>>
>> Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be wrenches.
>
> greasing by itself, may not be tyour problem. Hopefully when he
> reassembled them, he put all the stuff back in, in the proper order. Is
> the bolt unscrewing? A wee bit of blue octite on the threads. BTW-I
> lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't move..
>>
>> --Blair
>

 

[Donald Gillies]

"damyth" <[email protected]> writes:

>You asserted earlier that I was quoting info from some late 80's
>C-Record indexed shifter. I'll have you know I was in the business
>well before Valentino took over. Indexing at Campy never took place
>afaik under Tullio's reign.

>Any wrench worth their salt who worked under Tullio's reign knows that
>shifter internals need a light layer of grease. If you bothered to
>study campy shifter internals you'd understand why. They performed way
>better (and stayed that way) than dry levers.

Being "in the business" by no means disqualifies you from having
misconceptions about how to service a campagnolo shifter.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Donald Gillies]

[email protected] writes:

>"BTW-I lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't
>move."

>http://groups.google.com/group/rec....AIpTlND5Jq1s51CuVPoUOqoYLOS5LcsqPUriQ3-TYFt02
>or http://tinyurl.com/z24r4

>In general, metal parts intended to move against each other are going
>to do better when lubricated.

>Cheers,

>Carl Fogel

Nice try Carl. I qualified my statement originally saying that the
original poster was talking about just one type of shifter (C-Record),
which was made for a very small number of years (less than 10),
vs. 1014 (double) or 1013 (single) downtube shifters, which were made
for 40+ years.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Donald Gillies]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> writes:

>> Campy's been making stuff for almost 75 years. You are quoting
>> information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
>> something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
>> shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position if
>> you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
>>
>> - Don Gillies
>> San Diego, CA

>Don: My Iron Pig (rain bike) has Campy 1014 downtube shifters, and I've
>*always* applied a light amount of grease to the metal/metal contact points.
>Otherwise you just get "scratchy" shifting from the abrasion between the
>surfaces. It does make it a challenge to make sure things are tight enough
>though. Lubing the tightening screw is a definite requirement, and sometimes
>replacing the plastic pieces can make a world of difference (perhaps some
>are harder than others, or become harder with age?).

>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Again, the plastic shifters were a late 1970's idea. The earlier
1970's shifters with brass bushings (and which date back to 1950) DO
NOT WORK WHEN LUBRICATED PERIOD. THEY SLIP. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE
CALLED FRICTION SHIFTERS. THAT'S THE SAME REPAIR (REMOVING THE
GREASE) THAT I AND THE ORIGINAL POSTER MADE TO OUR CAMPY SHIFTERS IN
JUST THE PAST 30 DAYS.

Would you heat an icepack?
Would you freeze some hot cross buns?
If not, then why oh why would you GREASE FRICTION SHIFTERS ??

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[damyth]

Donald Gillies wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >> Campy's been making stuff for almost 75 years. You are quoting
> >> information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
> >> something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
> >> shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position if
> >> you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
> >>
> >> - Don Gillies
> >> San Diego, CA
>
> >Don: My Iron Pig (rain bike) has Campy 1014 downtube shifters, and I've
> >*always* applied a light amount of grease to the metal/metal contact points.
> >Otherwise you just get "scratchy" shifting from the abrasion between the
> >surfaces. It does make it a challenge to make sure things are tight enough
> >though. Lubing the tightening screw is a definite requirement, and sometimes
> >replacing the plastic pieces can make a world of difference (perhaps some
> >are harder than others, or become harder with age?).
>
> >--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> >www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> Again, the plastic shifters were a late 1970's idea. The earlier
> 1970's shifters with brass bushings (and which date back to 1950) DO
> NOT WORK WHEN LUBRICATED PERIOD. THEY SLIP. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE
> CALLED FRICTION SHIFTERS. THAT'S THE SAME REPAIR (REMOVING THE
> GREASE) THAT I AND THE ORIGINAL POSTER MADE TO OUR CAMPY SHIFTERS IN
> JUST THE PAST 30 DAYS.
>
> Would you heat an icepack?
> Would you freeze some hot cross buns?
> If not, then why oh why would you GREASE FRICTION SHIFTERS ??

Why would you need to grease handlebar clamps (or clamped area of
handlebar), even when both the stem and the handlebar are aluminum
(i.e. no galvanic corrosion)? Why is it that you can achieve higher
torque with greased bolts compared with dry bolts?

Or perhaps you provide us with a plausible explanation why there seems
to be sufficient friction on the right shifter on the OPs bike. The OP
complains only about the left lever slipping. Did the wrench only
grease the left lever?

I also notice you avoided responding to my earlier query re how is it
that 60's vintage 1013 levers have D-ring screws in the catalog when
you asserted that they didn't.

>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
"David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:23:44 -0700, Vee wrote:
>
> > David L. Johnson wrote:
> >> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:57:24 -0700, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>
> >> > A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
> >> > (it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
> >> > LBS for parts).
> >> >
> >> > The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
> >> >
> >> > My /friction/ shifters.
> >>
> >> Explain to me again the advantage of going to a shop to maintain the bike?
> >
> > Isn't this is the guy who had a conniption when he bought a new wheel
> > (130mm hub) but he couldn't figure out how to make it fit his shabby
> > old bike (126mm Holdsworth)? If so, there's your answer: some people
> > couldn't do worse than service the bike themselves.
>
> No, it isn't.

It might as well be.

> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> __o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
> _`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
> (_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
> kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

Marlene DuChard: And it is a thousand candles that will
burn for every brave soldier that marches to the steps
of the drums of liberty, so that tyranny will never
trample the spirit of freedom in the hearts of men,
throughout a world thrown into darkness and despair.

Colonel Schlissel: Well spoken - whatever it means. Ah,
may I present Miss DeBoop, like yourselves a well-built
exile?

Betty DeBoop: Hi, honey. Don't let the Heinie get you down.

Marlene DuChard: It is despots and tryants who run our
rivers red with the colors of a hundred trampled flags
that unfurl in the winds of liberty, blowing over
centuries of deprivation...

Paul DuChard: It's all right, darling, we made our point.

Marlene DuChard: ...where men who have known treachery
and treason can still light torches in the caves of
honor...

--
Michael Press

 

[[email protected]]

On 20 Sep 2006 10:54:02 -0700, [email protected] (Donald Gillies)
wrote:

>[email protected] writes:
>
>>"BTW-I lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't
>>move."
>
>>http://groups.google.com/group/rec....AIpTlND5Jq1s51CuVPoUOqoYLOS5LcsqPUriQ3-TYFt02
>>or http://tinyurl.com/z24r4
>
>>In general, metal parts intended to move against each other are going
>>to do better when lubricated.
>
>>Cheers,
>
>>Carl Fogel
>
>Nice try Carl. I qualified my statement originally saying that the
>original poster was talking about just one type of shifter (C-Record),
>which was made for a very small number of years (less than 10),
>vs. 1014 (double) or 1013 (single) downtube shifters, which were made
>for 40+ years.
>
>- Don Gillies
>San Diego, CA

Dear Don,

Now Mike Jacoubowsky seems to be disagreeing with you, as well as
Andrew Muzi and Peter Chisholm:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/07d766afbaef6e8c

And Damyth:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/a32a22c646264315

They may all be wrong, or they may all be talking about a different
mechanism, but they do seem to be a reasonably experienced group of
mechanics and dealers.

Possibly we've discovered son-of-greased-taper?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Blair P. Houghton]

damyth wrote:
> Nice diversion attempt. Why don't YOU go look up the catalogs at
> campyonly.com...

These are Shimano 600 shifters.

I just put them back together, after scraping a thick layer of grease
and
crud off the friction surfaces. Each of the friction joints (two on
each
shifter) has one metal side and one plastic-washer side. Greasing
them was not cool. And even if it was all metal-metal contact, it
would have been way too much.

The thumbscrews were not bottomed out. They were cranked too tight.
I'm lucky they weren't stripped and the D-rings weren't sprung and the
plastic parts weren't destroyed.

Now it feels like there's friction in there.

The crud was in there because the plastic seals are split (have been
for years) and dust can get in. Now that there's grease, it
collects...

--Blair

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Again, the plastic shifters were a late 1970's idea. The earlier
> 1970's shifters with brass bushings (and which date back to 1950) DO
> NOT WORK WHEN LUBRICATED PERIOD. THEY SLIP. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE
> CALLED FRICTION SHIFTERS. THAT'S THE SAME REPAIR (REMOVING THE
> GREASE) THAT I AND THE ORIGINAL POSTER MADE TO OUR CAMPY SHIFTERS IN
> JUST THE PAST 30 DAYS.
>
> Would you heat an icepack?
> Would you freeze some hot cross buns?
> If not, then why oh why would you GREASE FRICTION SHIFTERS ??

Er, gee, why are you yelling at me? Having said that, it's probably stupid
of me to ask what heating an ice pack or freezing hot cross buns has to do
with applying some grease to metal parts that have to move against each
other? If they were highly machined parts, sure, maybe they wouldn't need
grease. Maybe. But I think you might be getting too hung up on a term that
didn't exist when those levers were made. I seriously doubt we ever called
them "friction" shifters back then. Probably just "shifters" or maybe
"downtube shifters."

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Donald Gillies" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>> Campy's been making stuff for almost 75 years. You are quoting
>>> information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
>>> something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
>>> shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position if
>>> you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
>>>
>>> - Don Gillies
>>> San Diego, CA
>
>>Don: My Iron Pig (rain bike) has Campy 1014 downtube shifters, and I've
>>*always* applied a light amount of grease to the metal/metal contact
>>points.
>>Otherwise you just get "scratchy" shifting from the abrasion between the
>>surfaces. It does make it a challenge to make sure things are tight enough
>>though. Lubing the tightening screw is a definite requirement, and
>>sometimes
>>replacing the plastic pieces can make a world of difference (perhaps some
>>are harder than others, or become harder with age?).
>
>>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> Again, the plastic shifters were a late 1970's idea. The earlier
> 1970's shifters with brass bushings (and which date back to 1950) DO
> NOT WORK WHEN LUBRICATED PERIOD. THEY SLIP. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE
> CALLED FRICTION SHIFTERS. THAT'S THE SAME REPAIR (REMOVING THE
> GREASE) THAT I AND THE ORIGINAL POSTER MADE TO OUR CAMPY SHIFTERS IN
> JUST THE PAST 30 DAYS.
>
> Would you heat an icepack?
> Would you freeze some hot cross buns?
> If not, then why oh why would you GREASE FRICTION SHIFTERS ??
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA

 

[* * Chas]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Campy's been making stuff for almost 75 years. You are quoting
> > information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
> > something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
> > shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position
if
> > you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
> >
> > - Don Gillies
> > San Diego, CA
>
> Don: My Iron Pig (rain bike) has Campy 1014 downtube shifters, and
I've
> *always* applied a light amount of grease to the metal/metal contact
points.
> Otherwise you just get "scratchy" shifting from the abrasion between
the
> surfaces. It does make it a challenge to make sure things are tight
enough
> though. Lubing the tightening screw is a definite requirement, and
sometimes
> replacing the plastic pieces can make a world of difference (perhaps
some
> are harder than others, or become harder with age?).
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>

I always disassembled and thoroughly cleaned DT shift levers during a
tune-up. I carefully applied a light coat of grease to the bore of the
shift lever and the shaft being careful not to get grease into the
friction area.

I just finished putting together an old retro bike with Suntour Cyclone
II shift levers. Early into the first ride I had to stop and crank down
the right side D-Ring screw several times because the lever kept
loosening up and self shifting. They seem to be working fine now. I
attribute the problem to the Suntour shifters.

BTW, I've never liked Campy shift levers. The old Record and NR levers
always came loose!

Chas.