Stupid wheel building question

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Mrbubl, May 1, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mrbubl

    Mrbubl Guest

    How often can you relace a hub? As long as it is willing to accept spokes and is mechanically sound?
    This is a Mavic 571-2 on it's 4th generation-iteration of spokes.

    [email protected]
     
    Tags:


  2. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    What's with the "Stupid wheel building question" intro? This is a straight forward valid question.

    anonymous writes shyly:

    > How often can you re-lace a hub? As long as it is willing to accept spokes and is mechanically
    > sound? This is a Mavic 571-2 on it's 4th generation-iteration of spokes.

    As long as the lacing pattern is the same so that the spokes lie in the same dimples caused by the
    previous lacing, there is no problem. However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place
    the new rim next to the old, and transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious but it
    produces the best results, besides guaranteeing a durable set of spokes, ones that have been stress
    relieved and used for many miles. I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000
    miles by that method.

    Reusing spokes that have been removed from a hub is not good because detecting whether a spoke was
    an inbound or outbound, left or right rear, is not easy, and mixing them invites spoke failures.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  3. Dick

    Dick Guest

    [email protected] proclaimed:

    > I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000 miles by that method.
    >

    That's a lot of miles. Is that what you meant to say?
     
  4. Kbh

    Kbh Guest

    >I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000 miles by that method.

    I'm guessing this assumes you are using either the same rim or a rim with a similar ERD (+/-
    2mm maybe?) .

    Quite amazing though.
     
  5. Mrbubl

    Mrbubl Guest

    I guess it's not a stupid question if you don't know the answer..........my apologies and I enjoy
    your book and continue to build wheels with it's wisdom....

    michael

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
    > What's with the "Stupid wheel building question" intro? This is a straight forward valid question.
    >
    > anonymous writes shyly:
    >
    > > How often can you re-lace a hub? As long as it is willing to accept spokes and is mechanically
    > > sound? This is a Mavic 571-2 on it's 4th generation-iteration of spokes.
    >
    > As long as the lacing pattern is the same so that the spokes lie in the same dimples caused by the
    > previous lacing, there is no problem. However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place
    > the new rim next to the old, and transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious but it
    > produces the best results, besides guaranteeing a durable set of spokes, ones that have been
    > stress relieved and used for many miles. I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than
    > 200,000 miles by that method.
    >
    > Reusing spokes that have been removed from a hub is not good because detecting whether a spoke was
    > an inbound or outbound, left or right rear, is not easy, and mixing them invites spoke failures.
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  6. Harris

    Harris Guest

    KBH <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more
    > > than 200,000 miles by that method.

    > I'm guessing this assumes you are using either the same rim or a rim with a similar ERD (+/- 2mm
    > maybe?) .

    I'm guessing they're MA-2s. <g>

    Art Harris
     
  7. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    anonymous writes:

    >> I have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000 miles by that method.

    > I'm guessing this assumes you are using either the same rim or a rim with a similar ERD (+/- 2mm
    > maybe?). Quite amazing though.

    Note that I said "by that method" and the method I described was to replace a rim using the same
    hub and spokes. I have gone through many rims with these "wheels" and they work reliably. I'm
    asked now and then why I don't scrap those old fashioned hubs and get something modern. I have a
    certain attachment to these hubs and spokes. They were the ones on which I researched spoke
    failures for my book.

    Yes, I have a stash of MA-2 rims and it's sad that the are off the market.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  8. jobst brandt wrote:

    > Note that I said "by that method" and the method I described was to replace a rim using the same
    > hub and spokes. I have gone through many rims with these "wheels" and they work reliably.

    Heh. That reminds me of "my grandfather's axe", which has had its head replaced 3 times, and its
    handle replaced 4 times.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    How you look depends on where you go.
     
  9. J-MAT

    J-MAT New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jobst:

    Let me say thanks for writing the best
    wheel book out there.

    I bought a copy in 1990 when I first
    started out on the road.

    Using the info in the book, I have
    built many sets of very strong wheels!!!

    Thanks again!!!
     
  10. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...

    > As long as the lacing pattern is the same so that the
    spokes lie in
    > the same dimples caused by the previous lacing, there is
    no problem.
    > However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is,
    place the new
    > rim next to the old, and transfer spokes one at a time.
    This is a bit
    > more tedious but it produces the best results, besides
    guaranteeing a
    > durable set of spokes, ones that have been stress relieved
    and used
    > for many miles. I have been riding the same hubs and
    spokes for more
    > than 200,000 miles by that method.

    That seems like a great method. With used spokes, you know they're well stress relieved. Now if we
    could only get rim makers to quit changing their models around...

    Matt O.
     
  11. > > Note that I said "by that method" and the method I described was to replace a rim using the same
    > > hub and spokes. I have gone through many rims with these "wheels" and they work reliably.
    >
    > Heh. That reminds me of "my grandfather's axe", which has had its head replaced 3 times, and its
    > handle replaced 4 times.

    Not quite; he's actually re-using the original hub and spokes. He says he's only replaced the rims,
    nothing else.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com
     
  12. Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

    >>> Note that I said "by that method" and the method I described was to replace a rim using the same
    >>> hub and spokes. I have gone through many rims with these "wheels" and they work reliably.
    >>
    >> Heh. That reminds me of "my grandfather's axe", which has had its head replaced 3 times, and its
    >> handle replaced 4 times.
    >
    > Not quite; he's actually re-using the original hub and spokes. He says he's only replaced the
    > rims, nothing else.

    Yes, but it still reminded me of that old saw -- er, axe. :p

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    How you look depends on where you go.
     
  13. mrbubl-<< How often can you relace a hub? As long as it is willing to accept spokes and is
    mechanically sound? This is a Mavic 571-2 on it's 4th generation-iteration of spokes.

    Lots of times but lace in the same direction...each time..use spoke washers if the holes are
    getting long..

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  14. John Dacey

    John Dacey Guest

    On Thu, 01 May 2003 17:50:39 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
    >transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious

    Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
    have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
    simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
    original location.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://www.businesscycles.com John Dacey Business Cycles Miami,
    Florida 305-273-4440
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now in our twentieth year. Our catalogue of track equipment: seventh
    year online
     
  15. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "John Dacey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 01 May 2003 17:50:39 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > >However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
    > >transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious
    >
    > Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
    > have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
    > simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
    > original location.

    I have. The trick is to get all the nipples to where they're about to come off the spokes, THEN
    start moving them around. More helpful hints: just like tensioning, de-tensioning needs to be done
    in small increments (1-2 turns/time) till there isn't any tension on the spokes. 2. Put the new
    nipples on the spokes loosely till you get all of them on.

    Mike
     
  16. John Dacey <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Thu, 01 May 2003 17:50:39 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >>However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
    >>transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious

    > Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
    > have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
    > simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
    > original location.

    Keep in mind that that 20 mm is added to the much smaller lateral component, so the change in spoke
    length is still small. I haven't done the math, but it must be less than 5 mm. If you loosen the
    nipples first it's certainly doable, and indeed practical.

    -as
     
  17. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    John Dacey <[email protected]> writes:

    >> However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
    >> transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious

    > Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
    > have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
    > simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
    > original location.

    I don't understand what you are imagining. Unscrew one nipple at a time, move its spoke to new rim,
    put a drop of oil in the nipple and screw it back on the spoke. If the nipple goes on tight, use a
    new nipple, then repeat until all spokes are in the new rim. Then tighten and true the wheel.

    Yes, that's the way I've done it many times on my own wheels and on others. However, I don't run a
    bicycle repair shop.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  18. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > John Dacey <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > >> However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
    > >> transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious
    >
    > > Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
    > > have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
    > > simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
    > > original location.
    >
    > I don't understand what you are imagining. Unscrew one nipple at a time, move its spoke to new
    > rim, put a drop of oil in the nipple and screw it back on the spoke. If the nipple goes on
    > tight, use a new nipple, then repeat until all spokes are in the new rim. Then tighten and true
    > the wheel.
    >
    > Yes, that's the way I've done it many times on my own wheels and on others. However, I don't run a
    > bicycle repair shop.

    Hardly "daunting drudgery." It is the perfect activity for T.V. time, or visiting in-laws. --
    Jay Beattie.
     
  19. Jobst Brandt wrote:

    "However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
    transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious but it produces the best results, besides
    guaranteeing a durable set of spokes, ones that have been stress relieved and used for many miles. I
    have been riding the same hubs and spokes for more than 200,000 miles by that method. "

    Good idea! I'll have to try it next time I build a wheel. Which is rare, my wheels seem to last
    longer than they have a right too. But then, I'm not a racer, and not very heavy.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  20. Andres Muro

    Andres Muro Guest

    As jobst suggests, it ain't hard at all. Put the old wheel next to the new rim. and tape them both
    together so they will not move. loosen all the niples on the old wheel. then, you can move spokes
    one at the time in no time while you watch tv, listen to music, to car talk, or to your wife nagging
    at you to clean the kitchen and to stop screwing with your bike. turn the nipples on the new rim the
    same amount of turns per spoke, only a few turns. you don't want to get nipples tight while
    transfering spokes. when you are done transfering spokes, the wheel will be pretty straight already.
    Tighten the nipples the same amount for the front wheel, or proportianlly more on the drive side for
    a rear wheel. you'll have perfect wheel in no time.

    Andres

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > John Dacey <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > >> However, a better method is to leave the wheel as is, place the new rim next to the old, and
    > >> transfer spokes one at a time. This is a bit more tedious
    >
    > > Have you actually ever done this? Quite apart from the daunting drudgery of what you describe, I
    > > have to question whether you can achieve even partial engagement of all the spoke nipples
    > > simultaneously while having a significant number of spokes oriented 20 mm (or so) from their
    > > original location.
    >
    > I don't understand what you are imagining. Unscrew one nipple at a time, move its spoke to new
    > rim, put a drop of oil in the nipple and screw it back on the spoke. If the nipple goes on
    > tight, use a new nipple, then repeat until all spokes are in the new rim. Then tighten and true
    > the wheel.
    >
    > Yes, that's the way I've done it many times on my own wheels and on others. However, I don't run a
    > bicycle repair shop.
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...