Sturmey Archer AB problem

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Rasmus Strand, Oct 3, 2005.

  1. Hi,

    The problem with my Sturmey Archer AB hub from 1964 is that there is drag on
    pedals when free-wheeling. I've found a fault-finding chart
    (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/safaultfind.pdf) that says it
    can be a result of five fault. One of these are that "chainstay ends not
    parallel". But what is "chainstay ends"? (English is not my first language).
    Another fault can be the lubrication.. I have cleaned the hub and oiled it
    with a PTFE-spray, and used PTFE-grease on ball rings. Is this totally
    wrong? I don't think my problem can be a result of any of the other faults
    mentioned.

    Have anyone any other ideas on what the problem is?

    Regards,
    Rasmus
     
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  2. "Rasmus Strand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hi,
    >
    > The problem with my Sturmey Archer AB hub from 1964 is that there is drag
    > on pedals when free-wheeling. I've found a fault-finding chart
    > (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/safaultfind.pdf) that says
    > it can be a result of five fault. One of these are that "chainstay ends
    > not parallel". But what is "chainstay ends"? (English is not my first
    > language).


    Chainstay Ends are often called dropouts. They are the parts of the frame
    where the hub bolts onto the frame

    > Another fault can be the lubrication.. I have cleaned the hub and oiled it
    > with a PTFE-spray, and used PTFE-grease on ball rings. Is this totally
    > wrong?


    Sturmy wants you to use light machine oil in the hub. PTFE spray probably
    won't cause this problem but it won't protect the hub from wear and offer
    any internal crud an easy way out of the hub like a teaspoon of oil once
    every few hunderd miles will.

    >I don't think my problem can be a result of any of the other faults
    >mentioned.
    >
    > Have anyone any other ideas on what the problem is?
    >
    > Regards,
    > Rasmus


    In my expierence Sturmy drivetrain drag during freewheeling is commonly the
    result of the bearings being adjusted a bit too tight. You may have to
    suffer a few mm of play in the rim to get the bearings loose enough to
    freewheel properly.

    Dave

    Noblesville, IN
    >
     
  3. Tomek Li

    Tomek Li Guest

    "Rasmus Strand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hi,
    >
    > The problem with my Sturmey Archer AB hub from 1964 is that there is drag
    > on pedals when free-wheeling. I've found a fault-finding chart
    > (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/safaultfind.pdf) that says
    > it can be a result of five fault. One of these are that "chainstay ends
    > not parallel". But what is "chainstay ends"? (English is not my first
    > language). Another fault can be the lubrication.. I have cleaned the hub
    > and oiled it with a PTFE-spray, and used PTFE-grease on ball rings. Is
    > this totally wrong? I don't think my problem can be a result of any of the
    > other faults mentioned.
    >
    > Have anyone any other ideas on what the problem is?
    >
    > Regards,
    > Rasmus


    Most likely it is not resulted from the "chainstay ends not
    parallel". First, check if the chain is not tensioned too much. A bit of
    slack is what SA hubs like. Second, the hub cones should not be adjusted too
    tight. See a quote from Sheldon:
    "Cone adjustments must only be made on the left side of the hub. A properly
    adjusted 3-speed wheel will have slight play at the rim. If the cone
    adjustment is too tight, the pedals will tend to turn forward as the wheel
    turns. (This same symptom may result if the chain is too tight.)"
    Finally, if any of the above, than it would be time to check your dropouts
    if they are paralell.

    Cheers,

    Tomek Li
     
  4. > Most likely it is not resulted from the "chainstay ends not
    > parallel". First, check if the chain is not tensioned too much. A bit of
    > slack is what SA hubs like. Second, the hub cones should not be adjusted
    > too tight. See a quote from Sheldon:
    > "Cone adjustments must only be made on the left side of the hub. A
    > properly adjusted 3-speed wheel will have slight play at the rim. If the
    > cone adjustment is too tight, the pedals will tend to turn forward as the
    > wheel turns. (This same symptom may result if the chain is too tight.)"
    > Finally, if any of the above, than it would be time to check your dropouts
    > if they are paralell.


    Thanks,

    If I understand you guys right is the chainstay ends/dropouts a part of the
    frame, and since my wheel drags the sprocket also when I hold the axle in my
    hands and spin the wheel, I guess the problem is inside the hub.

    "Cone adjustments must only be made on the left side of the hub"

    The left side of the hub? Is that the brake side? I guess that may be a
    problem then...

    Regards,
    Rasmus
     
  5. Jim Adney

    Jim Adney Guest

    On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:17:35 +0200 "Rasmus Strand"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hi,
    >
    >The problem with my Sturmey Archer AB hub from 1964 is that there is drag on
    >pedals when free-wheeling. I've found a fault-finding chart
    >(http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/safaultfind.pdf) that says it
    >can be a result of five fault. One of these are that "chainstay ends not
    >parallel". But what is "chainstay ends"? (English is not my first language).


    Chainstay ends are also called dropouts or forkends. Yes, part of the
    frame.

    >Another fault can be the lubrication.. I have cleaned the hub and oiled it
    >with a PTFE-spray, and used PTFE-grease on ball rings. Is this totally
    >wrong? I don't think my problem can be a result of any of the other faults
    >mentioned.


    The hub needs to have some actual liquid oil in it: not filled, but
    about 10 cc or so. Some grease on the bearings is also fine.

    >Have anyone any other ideas on what the problem is?


    It is most likely that you have the cones adjusted too tight. Once the
    hub is reassembled, you should first tighten up the right cone until
    it starts to get tight, and then back it off between 1/4 and 1/2 turn.
    There is a special "no turn" washer that will lock it there.

    Then adjust the left cone tight enough to eliminate most of the play,
    but not so tight that the sprocket drags when you spin the hub.

    -
    -----------------------------------------------
    Jim Adney [email protected]
    Madison, WI 53711 USA
    -----------------------------------------------
     
  6. On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:17:35 +0200, "Rasmus Strand"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The problem with my Sturmey Archer AB hub from 1964 is that there is drag on
    >pedals when free-wheeling. I've found a fault-finding chart


    It's *usually* a sign that the main hub bearings are too tight. Sturmey
    hubs need to have a *leeeetle* bit of play in them, rather than being
    totally playfree like other hubs. Also can be a sign of grease on the
    freewheel pawls, but I'll assume that's not it given what you mentioned
    below. To adjust the bearings, use the left cone on the brake side, there
    should be a ring right over the brake plate with 4 notches which will turn
    the cone when you turn it. Loosen the left axle nut a turn or so, then
    take a punch and hammer (or improvise, it shouldn't destroy a screwdriver
    and adjustable wrench used as hammer either) and knock that ring loose a
    little bit. That usually fixes it for me. There should be a millimetre or
    two of play at the rim.

    >(http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/safaultfind.pdf) that says it
    >can be a result of five fault. One of these are that "chainstay ends not
    >parallel". But what is "chainstay ends"? (English is not my first language).


    The bits of the frame that the rear hub bolts to, basically. They're not
    usually dropouts since they open to the end, and they're not track-ends
    either since they're not a track bike (and look different), but it's the
    bit of the bike that corresponds to that.

    >Another fault can be the lubrication.. I have cleaned the hub and oiled it
    >with a PTFE-spray, and used PTFE-grease on ball rings. Is this totally
    >wrong? I don't think my problem can be a result of any of the other faults
    >mentioned.


    Did you open the hub up? (Older) Sturmeys are designed to be oiled with a
    lightweight bicycle oil, start with a lot (the excess will drain out) and
    then give it a drop a week or a few drops every few weeks in the oil
    nipple. The ball bearings should be greased with bearing grease. I'm
    pretty sure they didn't use Teflon in them originally, but if it's a good
    grease it shouldn't be a problem.


    Jasper
     
  7. Hi,

    Thanks everybody for all hints and tips... so far :)

    I think I've tried everything now, but I still have the same problem. I even
    translated the re-assembly-instructions
    (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/sa/saab.pdf) to norwegian to make
    sure I did it right. This time I used 10W-30 motor oil, since it was
    recommended on several websites and forums.

    The strange thing is that when I hold the axle in my hands, spin the wheel,
    and hold back the sprocket with my thumb, the wheel seems to be rotating by
    fits and starts (the best description I can give with my limited english). I
    get the same problem also when I remove the sprocket dust cap, so the uneven
    unwanted friction is not a result of a porr dust cap.

    By the way, my driver part seems to have some scratches around in on the
    outside of the inner part. Can this be the problem?

    Regards,
    Rasmus
     
  8. On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:10:58 +0200, "Rasmus Strand"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The strange thing is that when I hold the axle in my hands, spin the wheel,
    >and hold back the sprocket with my thumb, the wheel seems to be rotating by
    >fits and starts (the best description I can give with my limited english). I
    >get the same problem also when I remove the sprocket dust cap, so the uneven
    >unwanted friction is not a result of a porr dust cap.


    Yeah, that's just the ratcheting pawls which give a lot less resistance
    when they're in the low spot of the ratchet than when in the high spot, as
    far as I can tell.
    >
    >By the way, my driver part seems to have some scratches around in on the
    >outside of the inner part. Can this be the problem?


    Not really, the driver only transmits power to the star clutch , on the
    sides of the driver 'teeth'.

    If it's just a little pedalspinning when the wheel moves, I think that's
    almost unavoidable, I've never seen an AB without at least a little (ie,
    lift the bike up or have it upside down, spin the cranks by hand
    preferably in third gear so the wheel goes Really Fast, then when you
    release the pedals they will slowly start turning), but it shouldn't be
    excessive (when you're riding it and freewheeling you should not feel
    pressure on the pedals to keep turning, and if you lose the pedals for a
    few seconds they shouldn't be going fast enough to hurt your shins).

    Jasper
     
  9. >>The strange thing is that when I hold the axle in my hands, spin the
    >>wheel,
    >>and hold back the sprocket with my thumb, the wheel seems to be rotating
    >>by
    >>fits and starts (the best description I can give with my limited english).
    >>I
    >>get the same problem also when I remove the sprocket dust cap, so the
    >>uneven
    >>unwanted friction is not a result of a poor dust cap.

    >
    > Yeah, that's just the ratcheting pawls which give a lot less resistance
    > when they're in the low spot of the ratchet than when in the high spot, as
    > far as I can tell.


    Maybe, but it seems more irregular than that.

    Actually, I have two old bicycles with Sturmey Archer AB that I'm trying to
    restore. After trying to get the one of the back wheels spinning as I want
    to for about I week, I tried the other one today, hoping I would be more
    lucky this time. But no. Both wheels are almost equally poor. I understand I
    must live with a little drag, but I think it's too much at this time.

    I'm tempted to give up now. I just can't figure out what the problem is. But
    I would really appreciate any suggestions to how I can reduce the drag. So?

    Thank you Jasper and everybody else for your help.

    Rasmus
     
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