suggestions for clinchers for the boards?

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Bleve, Feb 11, 2007.

  1. rooman

    rooman New Member

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    yeah, the "myth" factor ....I guess in the abscence of science on the point eliminating the myth or adjusting to a comfort level with a potential myth brings back to each of us the "process" of determining what we are comfortable with and prepared to eliminate or accept for our own riding.
    Its the outcome of the process here that interests me and what I've endured to get a tyre type and pattern I accept for me, were Ive found trouble and success .. my case study is obviously small with a cohort of just a few, and the protocol certainly unsophisticated and not randomised and certainly not done as a double blind...etc etc...

    So, after trial and error, slipping and sliding and seeing others come to grief and asking them why and checking out set ups etc...after all that , now, I'm just happy to go with a fine tread pattern on the boards over slicks .

    Fine for me is defined as similar to a medium grade sandpaper with roughing or a semi diamond pattern , but sticky or grabby when you rub your hand across it....(keeping tyres clean of dust and oils is a given too)..the boards arent completely smooth, they have planking joins and glue joins and repair patches, gauges etc, all can be used to get grip and/or add friction...plus you need somthing robust enough to resist puncture from foreign objects, splinters and crud.

    its looking for a reasonable performance /cost ratio ...in fact I have one tyre...a Challenge pista tub which has a very slick shoulder and narrow fine tread in the middle ( weird ...thought it would be the other way around)mounted it on the rear of one of my Campag high flange Mavic CD2Mach2 rims but it slips on the shoulder in the bends at critical speed (ie slower) slips right where the slick is, compound isnt sticky enough there I guess, but at speed and in all the bends for a flying 200 or persuit, keirin or scratch race it is perfect.

    others may wish to go full slick hi tech compound and play around with what finally works, (with a sponsor paying the bills)...

    as mentioned early, I'm certainly not chasing 1/10ths here and 1/100ths there, ...the farm isnt on the outcome, I try to stay safe and keep the wits about what I'm doing on the boards....so I dont give a fig about top end or bling for that matter...when it doesnt really figure.

    I have fun and enjoy, stay safe and best of all when its fun and its a buzz and the smile gets huge , the pizza afterwards is even more fantastic...

    if there is a myth factor...so be it... its probably so insignificant here that "Mythbusters" would happily drink to it.

    As for the actual track tyres in the bags in current use are:

    for general velo training-Vittoria Competiton Atlantas (8-9 Bar)( a yuck yellow which shows the DISC dirt, for high speed sprints - Vittoria Pista EVO CS (10-15 bar) in Black , for basic Training and enduro- Vittoria Pista CS (8-12 Bar) in Black or Challenge Pista PPS 8/9 Bar in Black, On the outdoor track Speed( by Challenge) Cefira HPs 8.5 Bar in Black and Wolbe Road Tubs 9 Bar in Black or Deming Bank Tub 9 bar in Black .

    Finest tread is the Challenge a semi slick, then the Vittoria Pista EVO CS then the Pista CS then the Atlantas. The outdoors are all a bit rougher and thicker in the headwith and at least 23 to give more bag over the roughs.

    why so many?...in case of flats, I would rather change a wheel and ride on than go home... I dont like the drive to DISC so when I'm there... I'm there...


    so for some ( yeah finally...just about done.) ...HPs could be the best choice where changing a tube is much more enjoyable, to the pocket and the time spent on the boards, than having a backup supply of tubs on hand...


    cheers all...
     


  2. rooman

    rooman New Member

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    two quotes

    "
    For Calshot (and other indoor tracks I expect, Tim Knight (a Calshot track coach) says that 'any file pattern type is generally OK, but slicks are a no-no'."

    and

    " Denise Hampson-Denise is the Welsh Queen of Speed, second in this years National Sprint, Keirin, and 500 Time Trial and a rider who has represented her country of Wales (2002 Commonwealth Games) and Great Britain. I asked her about the bike she rides, a Terry Dolan. Tyres: "I use Continentals 165s for training and the French hand made Andre Dugast for racing. Both are 23mm tubulars. She says "I dislike 19mm tubs because they don't roll as well". And she had a word of warning -- beware of using the popular slick road tyres Michelin Axial High Pressures on tracks like Manchester. She recalls that as soon as she did use them on the track, the slick tyres had her sliding right back off the track again! "
     
  3. warrwych

    warrwych New Member

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    that would be a yes ;)
     
  4. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    On Feb 15, 11:05 am, warrwych <[email protected]
    mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
    > Bleve Wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Interestingly, it doesn't say why, which rings my 'myth' alarm.
    > > Otherwise, it's a good page, and thanks for the reference.

    >
    > Doesn't it say you will slip?????


    Yes, but not why, and it's anecdotal. As rooman says, I'm not after
    fractions of a second, but I *am* interested in why tread would make
    any difference, as at least in my understanding, tread decreases
    contact area with the road surface, but maybe that's mitigated by
    higher pressures or somesuch. Which is why I'm curious to know if
    there's any actual science behind the claim, or is it coincidence that
    the sticky tyres mentioned in this thread are treaded, and the slicks
    are less sticky? The variables would need to be isolated to tell, and
    they're probably not.

    I've ordered some Vittoria's as recommended by yourself and a few
    other posters, and may get to use them on Monday if I do the club team
    pursuit and team sprint things (urgh ... but they did ask me to do
    it .. so I'll give it a go)
     
  5. Boostland

    Boostland Guest

    "Bleve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Feb 14, 11:02 pm, rooman <[email protected]
    > mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
    >> Bleve Wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Feb 13, 12:19 pm, warrwych <[email protected]
    >> > mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
    >> > > Bleve Wrote:

    >>
    >> > > > <edit>
    >> > > > I'm not one to trackstand just yet, and I've not bunnyhopped a
    >> > fixie
    >> > > > at this time either, but otherwise, yeah, just a gumby track rider
    >> > at
    >> > > > the moment (and will probably stay that way, it's not my main
    >> > interest
    >> > > > by any stretch, just some cross-training). I read with note that a
    >> > > > number of you have suggested the vittorias, and we have them in the
    >> > > > shop, so I can get 'em cheap, and will give them a try if and when
    >> > I
    >> > > > get my arse down to DISC for a play around.

    >>
    >> > > No one has mentioned that some tyre compounds (eg those that contain
    >> > > silicone) are NOT good for wooden tracks - the tyres will slip. Avoid
    >> > > coloured tyres in general for this reason (that's a broad statement -
    >> > > some coloured rubber compounds have better wood-hugging properities
    >> > > than others). I don't know offhand which tyres fall into this
    >> > category
    >> > > - you may be in a better position Bleve.

    >>
    >> > Generally, according to Jobst anyway, black tyres are the grippiest
    >> > (carbon good!), and colours are bad. I'll be sticking with black for
    >> > track, if I do it, no puns intended :)

    >>
    >> For those who want a neat summary on track cycling gear and set up
    >> there is an introductory here ( its basic, but it is for the poms so I
    >> guess that's what it has to be (ducks)....there's a mention of tyres
    >> and treads too that might aid or hinder this discussion...cheers

    >
    > Interestingly, it doesn't say why, which rings my 'myth' alarm.
    > Otherwise, it's a good page, and thanks for the reference.
    >
    >


    I use my Vittoria Pista EVO CL slicks on Dunc Gray and they have not slipped
    at any stage, I have not done a track stand up the top of the banking to
    test them however.
    But I have rolled around the top slowly and there was no feeling of
    slipping.

    I had to do a sharp turn down onto the duck board at high speed in order to
    avoid a rider who had fallen above me in the corner, I turned sharply down
    and had to go about 1/2 to the fence in the middle of turn one, I stayed up
    and joined back into the race once I got around the fallen rider.

    Later in the night during the points race there was a very large fall this
    time I swung up to the top of the track as the fallen riders were all
    sliding down to the bottom, all those that went to the bottom to avoid it
    fell as the entire duck board area was totally blocked with fallen riders.
     
  6. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    I got down to DISC tonight to get a bit of time on the boards with the
    BBN pursuit training squad (no, I'm not in that team, but it was time
    BBN had booked, and we were welcome to have a play).

    Rode on my Bontrager Race-lites. Didn't slip. Was very scary on the
    banks (they're *steep*!) and I'm cheerfully admitting to having been
    sh*tscared!

    I have the Vittoria's on order, but they hadn't arrived in time, so I
    just used the Bontys ...
     
  7. adam85

    adam85 New Member

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    I tried my lighter clinchers, and also borrowed a disc and tri-spoke (both tubulars) at the state masters on the weekends, and I've got to admit I couldn't really tell the difference between any of them but that is on a concrete track. I would like to compare pursuit times with convential vs aero wheels sometime though.

    Adam
     
  8. warrwych

    warrwych New Member

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    Adam, was that Qld masters??? If so, do you have the results of the WMAS3 & 4 IP?? Results for the masters on the QLD site are for juniors (unless they have rectified this). Thanks
    :)
     
  9. adam85

    adam85 New Member

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    Yep qld masters and yep the link is still wrong, but I doubt the results are ready yet anyway. I wasn't there for the IPs on saturday sorry, but I don't think there were enough numbers for a women's medal. Only 4 entries 1 each in WMAS2,3,5 & 8. There are some photos (including podium) at http://www.sportpixonline.com.au/

    Looking for someone you know or are you watching for competition at the nationals? :) Is that your pet event?

    Adam
     
  10. warrwych

    warrwych New Member

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    Thanks for the info Adam. I am doing some research ;) Pet event??? If you can all a snarling stinking slobbering festering fuzzy feral event such as the IP a pet, then yes, it's my newly acquired pet :p

    We had a few more than 4 in total doing the IP here in Vic, but only 1 in WMAS 2 and 2 in WMAS 3. :( I think the girls would rather cute domesticated cats and small white fluffy dogs as pets :D :p
     
  11. adam85

    adam85 New Member

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    Well good luck taming that little critter. At least I didn't write "is that your event, pet?" :)

    I haven't done an IP before, but normally my points race turns into one so I have *some* idea! Can you tell I can't sprint? :)

    adam'slowtwitch'85
     
  12. warrwych

    warrwych New Member

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    I think they are all variations on a theme ie PAIN! no matter which way you turn the cranks. :D

    PS that's not really a grin but a grimace
     
  13. TimC

    TimC Guest

    On 2007-02-19, Bleve (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
    >
    > I got down to DISC tonight to get a bit of time on the boards with the
    > BBN pursuit training squad (no, I'm not in that team, but it was time
    > BBN had booked, and we were welcome to have a play).
    >
    > Rode on my Bontrager Race-lites. Didn't slip. Was very scary on the
    > banks (they're *steep*!) and I'm cheerfully admitting to having been
    > sh*tscared!


    You're not going fast enough.

    --
    TimC
    DISCLAIMER: THIS DISCLAIMER IS NOT REQUIRED BY LEADER KIBO. THIS ARTICLE
    DOES NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENT THE OPINIONS OF LEADER KIBO. THIS ARTICLE
    DOES NOT NECESSARILY DISAGREE WITH LEADER KIBO EITHER. HAVE A NICE DAY!
     
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