Sugino crankset removal



stevegreer

Member
Sep 4, 2008
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Hi all! I have a 2006 Specialized Allez with a Sugino Comp triple crankset. I am in the process of upgrading my Sugino/Shimano Tiagra drivetrain to an Ultegra setup. The problem I am having is with removing the Sugino crankset. It is a cotterless crank and has a square taper BB-7420 cartridge bottom bracket. I have a generic crank removal tool, and as far as I can tell there are no bolts and washers that need to be removed prior to using the tool. Try as I might, however, I can not get the blasted thing to come off! I am sure I am using the tool correctly because I have used it previously to remove the crankset on my '87 Trek 400. When I put the crank removal tool on and torque it down it gets to a point where it is so tight that I am concerned about stripping the threads. But the crankarms don't move an inch! Am I missing something here? Am I not doing something correctly? I want to be able to take the crankset off and clean up the bottom bracket a bit prior to upgrading to the Ultegra crank... and because I bought the bike used and am not sure how much maintenance the previous owner did to it. I am attaching a pic of the chainring side so hopefully you maintenance savy people can put some of that knowledge into my head! Thanks!
 

davereo

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Jun 17, 2010
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Thread your crank remover all the way in make sure the jacking bolt is backed all the way out to insure optimum thread engagement. Then start to thread the jacking bolt in until you have developed removal force. Once you have the removal tool under pressure try striking the head of the cranking bolt with a hammer to shock the taper free.
 

vspa

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Jan 11, 2009
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Originally Posted by davereo .

Thread your crank remover all the way in make sure the jacking bolt is backed all the way out to insure optimum thread engagement. Then start to thread the jacking bolt in until you have developed removal force. Once you have the removal tool under pressure try striking the head of the cranking bolt with a hammer to shock the taper free.

OUCH but +1___ if that doesn't work its a job for you LBS

a few time back people didn't use grease when installing things with a thread setup. so your incident is quite common and annoying of course,
 

Eichers

Member
Sep 17, 2010
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Hi stevegreer, another way is to screw the bolt back on, leave it slightly loose then simply ride the bike around in 1st gear until the crank arm comes loose. You should do the non-drive side first, then the drive side. This has always worked for me in the past without any damage or problems :)
 

kdelong

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Dec 14, 2006
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Originally Posted by KLabs .

Hi stevegreer, another way is to screw the bolt back on, leave it slightly loose then simply ride the bike around in 1st gear until the crank arm comes loose. You should do the non-drive side first, then the drive side. This has always worked for me in the past without any damage or problems :)
+1, but since this is a triple crank, you might want to go up to 9th or 10th gear to break the crank arms loose. I doubt that 1st gear will allow you to generate the power required to break the cranks loose.
 

oldbobcat

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Aug 31, 2003
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Be sure the end of the jacking bolt is small enough to make contact with the end of the spindle. Newer crank removal tools have larger contact points for working with splined, not square-taper, bottom brackets.
 

kdelong

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2006
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat .

Be sure the end of the jacking bolt is small enough to make contact with the end of the spindle. Newer crank removal tools have larger contact points for working with splined, not square-taper, bottom brackets.
I suspect that he is using the correct tool since he had used it previously on his 1987 Trek 400. I am kind of surprised that his 2006 Specialized has a square taper spindle.
 

stevegreer

Member
Sep 4, 2008
166
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Well, it looks like oldbobcat is right on the money. I compared the diameter of the jacking bolt with the diameter of the dustcap bolt, and the jacking bolt on my crank puller is considerably larger. Ugh! Oh well, at least this will give me an excuse to buy more tools! Not sure if the wife will care much for it though.
And kdelong, I am only assuming it is a square taper BB since that is what is listed on Specialized's website. I'm fairly certain the previous owner left everything stock on the bike with the exception of the tires. I lucked up and they put Continental Duraskins on her! Here is a link to the website if you are at all interested: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=21577&menuItemId=0&gold_ses=
Thanks for the inputs!
 

kdelong

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Dec 14, 2006
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Sorry, I thought that all of the major manufacturers had gone to Octalink or ISIS by 2003. I guess Sugino was a little late in the game.
 

davereo

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Jun 17, 2010
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Originally Posted by stevegreer .

Well, it looks like oldbobcat is right on the money. I compared the diameter of the jacking bolt with the diameter of the dustcap bolt, and the jacking bolt on my crank puller is considerably larger. Ugh! Oh well, at least this will give me an excuse to buy more tools! Not sure if the wife will care much for it though.
And kdelong, I am only assuming it is a square taper BB since that is what is listed on Specialized's website. I'm fairly certain the previous owner left everything stock on the bike with the exception of the tires. I lucked up and they put Continental Duraskins on her! Here is a link to the website if you are at all interested: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=21577&menuItemId=0&gold_ses=
Thanks for the inputs!
Why dont you try out the pedaling trick? Here is a link to a 7 dollar extractor that works on square tapers. http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_124649_-1_201492_10000_200497
 

stevegreer

Member
Sep 4, 2008
166
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@kdelong - Yep, Sugino pretty much is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to cranksets. Eventually I will have the drivetrain upgraded completely to Ultegra. Would do Dura Ace, but they are pretty costly. I already purchased an Ultegra front derailleur and am looking forward to getting it on there to replace the Sora FD.

@davereo - Thanks for the link! Can't beat that price!
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by stevegreer .

Yep, Sugino pretty much is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to cranksets.
FYI. SUGINO cranks are still very popular amongst Track racers in Japan, in particular, and elsewhere ...

Here's a Sugino crankset which I believe will be available later this year if not already ...

 

oldbobcat

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Aug 31, 2003
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Glad to help.

And thanks for the clarification on the quality of Sugino cranks, Alf. Back in the day when quality cranks started coming from Japan, there were two players, Shimano and Sugino. Sugino was the one whose chainrings were compatible with Campagnolo. I rode with a few racers who replaced their worn Campy rings with Sugino.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by stevegreer .

Well, it looks like oldbobcat is right on the money. I compared the diameter of the jacking bolt with the diameter of the dustcap bolt, and the jacking bolt on my crank puller is considerably larger. Ugh! Oh well, at least this will give me an excuse to buy more tools! Not sure if the wife will care much for it though.
FWIW. I think the "end" cap on the Octalink-and-ISIS PARK TOOL crank puller can be removed and then the tool can be used to remove a square taper spindle from its crank, or vice-versa ...

If you cannot remove end of the "jacking bolt" then you simply have to put SOMETHING at the end of the spindle like a 1/2" ([COLOR= #808080]or, ¿larger?[/COLOR]) ball bearing which will facilitate pressing the spindle down-and-away-from the crank arm ... or, you could possibly use several ball bearings as long as they are larger in diameter than the spindle's bolt hole ... really, any PLUG whose "head" stands proud of the flat at the end of crank bolt's recess by a couple of millimeters should allow you to use your current crank puller.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by oldbobcat .

Back in the day when quality cranks started coming from Japan, there were two players, Shimano and Sugino. Sugino was the one whose chainrings were compatible with Campagnolo. I rode with a few racers who replaced their worn Campy rings with Sugino.
SunTour Superbe[COLOR= #a9a9a9]/etc[/COLOR][COLOR= #808080].[/COLOR] cranks were very good, too ...
 

swampy1970

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2008
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Originally Posted by stevegreer .

Well, it looks like oldbobcat is right on the money. I compared the diameter of the jacking bolt with the diameter of the dustcap bolt, and the jacking bolt on my crank puller is considerably larger. Ugh! Oh well, at least this will give me an excuse to buy more tools! Not sure if the wife will care much for it though.
And kdelong, I am only assuming it is a square taper BB since that is what is listed on Specialized's website. I'm fairly certain the previous owner left everything stock on the bike with the exception of the tires. I lucked up and they put Continental Duraskins on her! Here is a link to the website if you are at all interested: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=21577&menuItemId=0&gold_ses=
Thanks for the inputs!
I'm only assuming that it's a square taper because there's a square in the middle of the crank that's in the first photo...

... and you can see a nice little circle right around the edge of it too.

I wonder where the center of the crank extractor was resting. ;)
 

stevegreer

Member
Sep 4, 2008
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Yeah, I was actually looking for a bolt or something that I could use to do just that, alf. But I haven't found one long enough yet. And to clarify, my statement about Sugino being bottom of the barrel wasn't a negative blast. I really meant that Sugino isn't one of the "big three." I don't have a problem with my crankset, I just want to upgrade to an Ultegra because I believe Shimano is higher quality.
 

kdelong

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Dec 14, 2006
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I was not insinuating that Sugino cranks were not good quality cranks. What I was saying was that the Sugino Company must not have started manufacturing ISIS cranks as soon as the other manufacturers. I have used Sugino cranks off and on for years and was always satisfied with their quality.

Originally Posted by stevegreer .

@kdelong - Yep, Sugino pretty much is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to cranksets. Eventually I will have the drivetrain upgraded completely to Ultegra. Would do Dura Ace, but they are pretty costly. I already purchased an Ultegra front derailleur and am looking forward to getting it on there to replace the Sora FD.
 

swampy1970

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Feb 3, 2008
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Originally Posted by stevegreer .

@kdelong - Yep, Sugino pretty much is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to cranksets.
And you base this on what?

Sugino chainsets are used by the all conquering British Cycling track squad as well as quite a few other pro track riders. Their chainrings are amazing and the superlap bottom brackets are near mythically good. I can't see British Cycling cobbling on a low rent chainset onto a bike that costs about $35,000 per rider. Their road cranksets feature forged crank arms which are pretty darned strong - I'd bet that if you'd pulled that stunt with the crank extractor on a campagnolo square taper crank you'd have ripped the threads out pretty early on.

Your observations are based upon you seeing some lower budget bikes with Sugino cranks?
 

Eichers

Member
Sep 17, 2010
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Originally Posted by swampy1970 .
Originally Posted by stevegreer .

@kdelong - Yep, Sugino pretty much is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to cranksets.

And you base this on what?

Sugino chainsets are used by the all conquering British Cycling track squad as well as quite a few other pro track riders. Their chainrings are amazing and the superlap bottom brackets are near mythically good. I can't see British Cycling cobbling on a low rent chainset onto a bike that costs about $35,000 per rider. Their road cranksets feature forged crank arms which are pretty darned strong - I'd bet that if you'd pulled that stunt with the crank extractor on a campagnolo square taper crank you'd have ripped the threads out pretty early on.

Your observations are based upon you seeing some lower budget bikes with Sugino cranks?

Sugino 75 bottom bracket set SUPERLAP
Sugino has two track bottom bracket models. The top picture shows the standard Sugino 75 version. It is available only in English threading and is Keirin certified (NJS). The "Superlap" model in the photo below differs from the standard version by adding mirror-polishing to the races on both spindle and ball cups (a finish that even Campagnolo hasn't offered in many years).

Both versions have spindles are 109 mm. long with symmetrical overhangs, and either of these bottom brackets will match properly with Sugino 75 track or premium Grand Mighty cranks.

Like Sugino's two track cranks, these units are too often overlooked and underrated in a component market long dominated by Campagnolo and Shimano. I encourage you to give them serious consideration as alternatives to designs of dubious virtue (for track) such as the sealed bearing units now found in current Record and Dura-Ace track models or Shimano's controversial splined crank attachment.
Details
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SKU SKU16171 Weight 100.00 g Price: £80.99

Hi swampy1970, this raises the question ... What was wrong with the square tampered BB and why do we need the BB30 BB?