Sun 20th - Laying excuses on grave of unknown cyclist

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Peter Fox, Jul 19, 2003.

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  1. Peter Fox

    Peter Fox Guest

    Sorry for hurry - have to go to court this morning see A12 thread or
    <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk/roadsafety.htm>

    Please come. I hope to have a memorial of some sort.

    PRESS RELEASE

    On the morning of Sunday the 20th July a ceremony will be held near the spot on the A12 where a
    cyclist was killed last Sunday. At 11am safety campaigners, including Peter Fox, will be laying
    excuses provided by national and local bodies at a memorial to the person tragically killed last
    week at Marks Tey.

    Anyone can come. Meet at Colchester Town hall 10am Sunday morning. Representatives from The
    Department for Transport, Highways Agency,

    their own excuses.

    It is hoped that as well as may individual cyclists showing their respects and rage there will be
    representatives from bodies promoting cycling including Colchester Cycle Campaign, The CTC(Cyclists
    Touring Club), racing clubs and the All-party parliamentary cycling group.

    This is being arranged by Peter Fox, who has been charged this week with willful obstruction for
    cycling normally along this road. He says "Every time somebody writes a don't worry your head about
    it - We know best letter another life is put at risk. Excuses and evasions are too many to list -
    Everybody's right to go about their business and pleasure safely is being eroded every day by these
    unthinking uncaring bureaucrats".

    --
    PETER FOX Not the same since the adhesive company came unstuck
     
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  2. Peter Fox

    Peter Fox Guest

    Following on from Peter Fox's message. . .
    >Sorry for hurry - have to go to court this morning see A12 thread or
    ><http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk/roadsafety.htm>
    Could somebody here please alert the road race fraternity - I don't have time this morning to find
    the contacts. This is for them as well - not just a tasteless publicity stunt.

    --
    PETER FOX Not the same since the adhesive company came unstuck
     
  3. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    Peter Fox <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Could somebody here please alert the road race fraternity - I don't have time this morning to find
    : the contacts. This is for them as well - not just a tasteless publicity stunt.

    It time trialists you want in this case, not road racers.

    As I've said before, while it's extremely tragic that this happened, there's no way a race should be
    held on roads like the A14.

    Arthur
     
  4. Mark South

    Mark South Guest

    "wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >It time trialists you want in this case, not road racers.
    > >
    > >As I've said before, while it's extremely tragic that this happened, there's no way a race should
    > >be held on roads like the A14.
    >
    > The way I see it, if the case against peter Fox goes through, this is
    a
    > dangerous threat to *any* cyclist who cycles *any* busy road for *any*
    purpose.

    As if there aren't enough threats already, too!

    > If cycling at a moderate pace on a busy road is something that is
    deemed worthy
    > of legal action by plod, how long before other cyclists using other
    roads
    > which plod deems to be "busy" are banned from cycling???

    Indeed.

    > This case needs to be stopped in its tracks.

    In this case, I would fully support at least the idea of the careful application of paving slabs to
    the appropriate noggins.

    --
    Mark South: Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net "I wonder why so many Finnish traditions are
    related with booze?"
    - Juha Sakkinen
     
  5. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX <[email protected]> wrote:

    : The way I see it, if the case against peter Fox goes through, this is a dangerous threat to *any*
    : cyclist who cycles *any* busy road for *any* purpose.

    I agree with you there, but I think we do ourselves no favours by trying to defend the indefensible.

    I'll fully defend anyones right to *ride* on the A14. Peter seemed to be trying to defend the right
    of CTT to race on the A14. That I don't support and won't defend.

    Arthur
     
  6. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    Peter Fox <[email protected]> wrote:

    : We have a general rule in this country that you individuals should take responsibility for their
    : own actions. Please don't try to restrict other people's liberties to fit in with your limited
    : view of the world.

    Maybe, but in a *racing* context that doesn't work.

    Pretend for a moment that I am a talented TT'er (which I'm not)

    If I want to get anywhere in TT's I have to ride fast courses i.e. busy dual carriageways where the
    traffic pushes you along. My liberties may be un-infringed but it's still a mad way to run a sport.

    I state again. I defend your right to *ride* the A14 and indeed will ride roads like this myself on
    occasion. Racing on it is madness.

    Do you defend this?

    Arthur
     
  7. Tim Woodall

    Tim Woodall Guest

    On 17 Jul 2003 19:03:20 GMT, Arthur Clune <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Peter Fox <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >: We have a general rule in this country that you individuals should take responsibility for their
    >: own actions. Please don't try to restrict other people's liberties to fit in with your limited
    >: view of the world.
    >
    >
    > Maybe, but in a *racing* context that doesn't work.
    >
    > Pretend for a moment that I am a talented TT'er (which I'm not)
    >
    > If I want to get anywhere in TT's I have to ride fast courses i.e. busy dual carriageways where
    > the traffic pushes you along. My liberties may be un-infringed but it's still a mad way to run
    > a sport.
    >
    > I state again. I defend your right to *ride* the A14 and indeed will ride roads like this myself
    > on occasion. Racing on it is madness.
    >
    > Do you defend this?
    >
    I don't get any of this. AFAICT Peter is campaigning about a planned design change to the A12 (which
    looks potentially dangerous to me - I have some similar dangerous junctions near me although they
    are particularly dangerous because the traffic can, and usually does, exceed the 40mph speed limit
    by anything up to about 100%. On the times when it is busy i.e. more than one car every 5 seconds or
    so, then the traffic speed is usually so low that the biggest problem is motorists deliberately
    moving over to hold you up)

    You are talking about racing on the A14. Now I don't know the A14 either (I've driven it a few times
    but not for many years) but it seems to me that whether it is sensible to race along a totally
    different road is a completely different issue.

    But talking about the racing - I've never done a TT in my life - I don't really see why they should
    be any more dangerous than cycling along the road in the first place. I can see why proper racing
    might be an issue with slipstreaming, riding in a pack etc but AFAIAA, this isn't done on British
    roads open to traffic anyway.

    Re: The recent fataility on the A12. Are you saying that the extra 5-10mph that cyclist might have
    been doing as part of a race over what I might be doing as part of a commute directly contributed to
    the accident? Or is it that a TTer is less likely to "give way" to cars joining the dual carriageway
    or to slow down on the assumption that the cars won't give way. If the former then I can understand
    your arguement. If the latter then the solution to the danger isn't to stop TTers using the road but
    to stop incompetent drivers or to change the design of junctions so that drivers can't miss seeing a
    cyclist because they are merging into high speed traffic using just their mirrors. (Or alternatively
    only looking over their shoulder and running down the cyclist in front - or rear ending the queue)

    (I've never seen a TT race held on British roads either so maybe the cyclists are more reckless than
    I imagine although I would have thought a dual carriage way would be a good place as they are
    unlikely to be cutting corners etc)

    just my .02EUR

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

    http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
     
  8. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    Tim Woodall <[email protected]> wrote:

    : You are talking about racing on the A14. Now I don't know the A14 either (I've driven it a few
    : times but not for many years) but it seems to me that whether it is sensible to race along a
    : totally different road is a completely different issue.

    My mistake. I ment the A12, where there was a death in a TT - that's the death that Peter wanted to
    mark with his event. So they are connected.

    : But talking about the racing - I've never done a TT in my life - I don't really see why they
    : should be any more dangerous than cycling along the road in the first place.

    You have to do it to understand. The extra speed is probably a good thing. The problem is the way
    that when you are riding right on the limit your judgement gets impaired.

    : I can see why proper racing might be an issue with slipstreaming, riding in a pack etc but AFAIAA,
    : this isn't done on British roads open to traffic anyway.

    Actually it is, but the riders stick to their side of the road, there are marshalls on all the
    conrners and leading and following cars (and often a police motorcycle escort) so it's safe enough
    (though it can feel very, very hairy but that's anyother issue!).

    : (I've never seen a TT race held on British roads either so maybe the cyclists are more reckless
    : than I imagine although I would have thought a dual carriage way would be a good place as they are
    : unlikely to be cutting corners etc)

    As I said above, the problem is the fact that in a race one is going full on. Head down, arse up
    as it were.

    If I ride down a dual carriageway (and I repeat, I do), I slow slightly on approaching a slip
    road and glance behind. In a race most riders are too busy looking at their front wheel or heart
    rate monitor.

    My apologies for getting my roads mixed up.

    Arthur
     
  9. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On 17 Jul 2003 14:20:54 GMT someone who may be [email protected]
    (wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX) wrote this:-

    >This case needs to be stopped in its tracks.

    My only disagreement with your opinion is to say that this case needs to be blown apart so that no
    other wanker in uniform tries the same thing.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
    keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
     
  10. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    "Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > As I said above, the problem is the fact that in a race one is going full on. Head down, arse up
    > as it were.
    >
    > If I ride down a dual carriageway (and I repeat, I do), I slow slightly on approaching a slip road
    > and glance behind. In a race most riders are too busy looking at their front wheel or heart rate
    > monitor.

    FWIW I think Arthur is right. Slip roads on dual carriageways can be highly dangerous zones for
    cyclists. Sometimes it's necessary to stop completely, wait for a gap, and cross the slip lane at
    right angles then rejoin the original road. That's a luxury that time triallists do not have. They
    just have to keep going and hope that motor traffic will give way to them, as it is supposed to.

    Peter's arrest and prosecution are outrageous. As far as I can see the campaign has nothing to do
    with racing, and everything to do with decent road design and cyclists' rights. If the prosecution
    succeeds we will no longer have the right to cycle anywhere on the public highway as we can always
    be accused of causing an obstruction.

    --
    Dave...
     
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