Suntour derailleur info

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Rudge, Apr 5, 2003.

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  1. Rudge

    Rudge Guest

    I've got a used Suntour Accushift 3040 long cage rear derailleur. I want to put it on a hack bike
    and so I would like some info. The date code may indicate it was made in 1988. How many rear cogs
    was it designed for? What is the range of cog teeth and maximum cog size? Will it work with Shimano
    or Campag indexed shifters?

    Thanks
     
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  2. On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:14:29 +0100, "Rudge" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I've got a used Suntour Accushift 3040 long cage rear derailleur. I want to put it on a hack bike
    >and so I would like some info. The date code may indicate it was made in 1988. How many rear cogs
    >was it designed for?

    It doesn't matter.

    >What is the range of cog teeth and maximum cog size?

    I believe the range was 13-32 with, natch, a 32 big cog.

    >Will it work with Shimano or Campag indexed shifters?

    Yes.

    >Thanks

    You're welcome.
     
  3. Mark Janeba

    Mark Janeba Guest

    Garrison Hilliard wrote:
    > On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:14:29 +0100, "Rudge" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I've got a used Suntour Accushift 3040 long cage rear derailleur.
    > [...]
    >>Will it work with Shimano or Campag indexed shifters?
    >
    >
    > Yes.

    Please pardon my skepticism - we are talking about a Suntour derailleur used with, say, Ergo or STI
    shift levers? Have you really seen this work well?

    Myself, I really don't know, but always assumed this combination would be a non-starter. I've lots
    of Suntour indexed stuff on several bikes, and one nice Ergo bike.

    Very interested in your actual experience with this combination.

    Regards,
    --
    Mark Janeba remove antispam phrase in address to reply
     
  4. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Rudge" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I've got a used Suntour Accushift 3040 long cage rear derailleur. I want
    to
    > put it on a hack bike and so I would like some info. The date code may indicate it was made in
    > 1988. How many rear cogs was it designed for? What is the range of cog teeth and maximum cog size?
    > Will it work with Shimano or Campag indexed shifters?

    Seven. 26t with short hanger/28t with long. neither one.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  5. Jon Isaacs

    Jon Isaacs Guest

    A. Muzi wrote

    >Seven. 26t with short hanger/28t with long. neither one.

    It is possible it might not even work with other Suntour indexing schemes. I have had this
    experience with Suntour derailleurs.

    jon isaacs
     
  6. Mark Janeba <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Garrison Hilliard wrote:
    > > On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:14:29 +0100, "Rudge" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>I've got a used Suntour Accushift 3040 long cage rear derailleur.
    > [...]
    > >>Will it work with Shimano or Campag indexed shifters?
    > >
    > >
    > > Yes.
    >
    > Please pardon my skepticism - we are talking about a Suntour derailleur used with, say, Ergo or
    > STI shift levers? Have you really seen this work well?

    Yes... remember, the actual shifting and cog spacing is built into the levers and any decent rear
    der. will work fine.
     
  7. Paul Hays

    Paul Hays Guest

    On Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:59:08 -0700, Garrison Hilliard wrote (in message
    <[email protected]>):

    > Mark Janeba <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >> Garrison Hilliard wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:14:29 +0100, "Rudge" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> I've got a used Suntour Accushift 3040 long cage rear derailleur.
    >> [...]
    >>>> Will it work with Shimano or Campag indexed shifters?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Yes.
    >>
    >> Please pardon my skepticism - we are talking about a Suntour derailleur used with, say, Ergo or
    >> STI shift levers? Have you really seen this work well?
    >
    > Yes... remember, the actual shifting and cog spacing is built into the levers and any decent rear
    > der. will work fine.

    You should stick to trolling and leave technical questions to others.
     
  8. Paul Hays <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > >> Please pardon my skepticism - we are talking about a Suntour derailleur used with, say, Ergo or
    > >> STI shift levers? Have you really seen this work well?
    > >
    > > Yes... remember, the actual shifting and cog spacing is built into the levers and any decent
    > > rear der. will work fine.
    >
    >
    > You should stick to trolling and leave technical questions to others.

    My, you are an ignorant fellow, aren't you? Perhaps I should remind you of this recent message from
    Sheldon Brown:
    ----
    > I've seen stuff on the web saying you can use a 7 speed derailer with an 8 or 9 speed freewheel,
    > but can't find much else.

    That's 'cause there's no such thing as a "7-speed" derailer. The derailer doesn't care how many
    speeds, that's an issue for the shift control and the rear cluster.

    When you see a derailer referred to as a *-speed, that's just marketing spin, not a functional
    description.

    Sheldon "It'll Work Just Dandy" Brown
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    >>Will it work with Shimano or Campag indexed shifters?
    >
    >Yes.

    Can't be both, it either works with Shimano or Campy.
    -----------------
    Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
     
  10. [email protected] (Garrison Hilliard) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Mark Janeba <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Garrison Hilliard wrote:
    > > > On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 10:14:29 +0100, "Rudge" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >>I've got a used Suntour Accushift 3040 long cage rear derailleur.
    > [...]
    > > >>Will it work with Shimano or Campag indexed shifters?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Yes.
    > >
    > > Please pardon my skepticism - we are talking about a Suntour derailleur used with, say, Ergo or
    > > STI shift levers? Have you really seen this work well?
    >
    > Yes... remember, the actual shifting and cog spacing is built into the levers and any decent rear
    > der. will work fine.

    Not quite...what is built into the levers is the amount of cable to pull. How much transverse motion
    of the deraileur results is dependant on the derailleur design. There is no prima facie reason to
    suppose that the same cable pull results in the same lateral motion on different derailleurs -
    especially ones designed before indexing became commonplace.
     
  11. garrison

    garrison Guest

    Paul Hays <[email protected]> wrote:
    >On Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:07:05 -0700, Garrison Hilliard wrote (in message
    ><[email protected]>):
    >
    >>
    >> Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>> But Suntour was not consistent with their design so that they produced a variety of different
    >>>> schemes and so one cannot necessarily replace on Suntour rear derailleur with another.
    >>>
    >>> Leaving out the ancient Trimec system, SunTours of the late '80s indexing era were
    >>> interchangeble with the exception of the bottom of the line model, I believe it was called the
    >>> Alpha 3000 (mighta been 2000).
    >>>
    >>> Sheldon "Was Indeed Speaking Of Modern Derailers" Brown
    >>
    >>
    >> Right (of course), Sheldon... which means that the only real mismatch problem with Suntour rear
    >> der.'s matching other Suntour rear der.'s would be making sure one has the same cage length. cage
    >> length, but that's obvious.
    >
    >He asked about compatability between different manufacturers,

    It's the same answer... the indexing and between-cog spacing is governed by the shift levers and has
    nothing to do with the der. mechanism.

    >>Yes... remember, the actual shifting and cog spacing is built into the levers
    >and any decent rear der. will work fine.
    >
    >The amount of cable pull per click is built into each lever, and how far that cable pull will move
    >the rear derailer is determined by the geometry of the derailer.

    Hmmm... that simply isn't true with a slant parrallelogram design.

    >This geometery varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. An 8 speed suntour shifter will not work
    >well with a shimano derailer/8 speed cluster without doing hinky cable attachment tricks.

    That hasn't been my experience.
     
  12. Richard Chan

    Richard Chan Guest

    Paul Hays <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > .... The amount of cable pull per click is built into each lever, and how far that cable pull will
    > move the rear derailer is determined by the geometry of the derailer. This geometery varies from
    > manufacturer to manufacturer. An 8 speed suntour shifter will not work well with a shimano
    > derailer/8 speed cluster without doing hinky cable attachment tricks.

    I also tried and failed to get proper indexing from a 8 speed model Superbe Pro rear deraileur
    (upper pivot is spring loaded like a Shimano) with STI. I tried the upper and lower cable
    routing/mounting to no avail. I couldn't tell you with Campagnolo because I have already sold them.
     
  13. [email protected] wrote:

    >>
    >>He asked about compatability between different manufacturers,
    >
    >
    > It's the same answer... the indexing and between-cog spacing is governed by the shift levers and
    > has nothing to do with the der. mechanism.
    >
    >
    >>>Yes... remember, the actual shifting and cog spacing is built into the levers
    >>
    >>and any decent rear der. will work fine.
    >>
    >>The amount of cable pull per click is built into each lever, and how far that cable pull will move
    >>the rear derailer is determined by the geometry of the derailer.
    >
    >
    > Hmmm... that simply isn't true with a slant parrallelogram design.

    No, I'm afraid it is very true. SRAM, for example, uses a slant parallelogram derailleur with half
    as much lateral movement for a given cable travel than dues Shimano. To make it work, they designed
    their shifters to provide twice as much cable travel per "click".

    http://www.sram.com/tech_info/faq_display.asp?faq_id=12

    >>This geometery varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. An 8 speed suntour shifter will not work
    >>well with a shimano derailer/8 speed cluster without doing hinky cable attachment tricks.
    >
    >
    > That hasn't been my experience.

    The actuation ratio of Suntour derailleurs was always fairly close to Shimano's. Late in the game
    (early '90s) Suntour slightly modified the design of their derailleurs for even better compatability
    with Shimano shifters (a feature they called "plug and play").

    However, such is not the case with all manufacturers. As noted above, SRAM uses a vastly different
    cable travel than Shimano. Campagnolo shifters/derailleurs use a bit more cable travel than Shimano,
    but not nearly as much as SRAM. None-the-less, Campagnolo and Shimano indexing components are not
    interchangeable.

    Mark McMaster [email protected]
     
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