Super Mario



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B

Brian Lafferty

Guest
Cipo is really becoming a cycling treasure. His attitude reflects someone from a culture that
understands and respects cycling. Bravo Mario!

"It will be difficult to repeat the successes on the road of 2002," added Cipollini.
"Together with my teammates during the next few days, we will work out a detailed program
that will encompass our main season objectives...I want to win Milan San Remo with the World
Champion's jersey: that's an important race for me. Subsequently, in the Giro d'Italia, I
will try to beat the record of Binda, and to conclude, if the organisers will honour the
World Champion's jersey, I would like to concentrate on the Tour de France. If that's not
the case, I don't believe it will be satisfactory to the critics of the race, Italian and
non-Italian."

Cipollini reiterated that his success was due in part to his teammates. "Cycling is an individual
sport but I won thanks to them. If the results came, the merit also belongs to my teammates." [From
CyclingNews]

Brian Lafferty
--
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.--Voltaire
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
"Brian Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SNIP, and to conclude, if the organisers will honour the World Champion's jersey, I would like to
> concentrate on the
Tour
> de France. If that's not the case, I don't believe it will be satisfactory to the critics of the
> race, Italian and non-Italian."
>

What exactly does Cipo mean with this statement? I'm asking because I'm new to cycling and don't
know anything about the traditions etc.

--
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Perre
 
C

Chris D

Guest
"Brian Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cipo is really becoming a cycling treasure. His attitude reflects someone from a culture that
> understands and respects cycling. Bravo
Mario!
>
> "It will be difficult to repeat the successes on the road of
2002,"
> added Cipollini. "Together with my teammates during the next few days, we will work out a detailed
> program that will encompass our main season objectives...I want to win Milan San Remo with the
> World Champion's
jersey:
> that's an important race for me. Subsequently, in the Giro d'Italia, I
will
> try to beat the record of Binda, and to conclude, if the organisers will honour the World
> Champion's jersey, I would like to concentrate on the
Tour
> de France. If that's not the case, I don't believe it will be satisfactory to the critics of the
> race, Italian and non-Italian."
>
> Cipollini reiterated that his success was due in part to his teammates. "Cycling is an individual
> sport but I won thanks to them. If the results came, the merit also belongs to my teammates."
> [From CyclingNews]

Don't forget that The Head Prima Donna also "retired" in July, putting the composition of the
Italian World's squad into doubt. Ballerini had to call him out, put a deadline on getting him to
commit. The composition of the squad was completely up in the air while Mario worked out whatever
got him into his snit.

Mario behaves well when things are going well for him. Lucky for him, and for us, he is so
physically talented that we don't get to see that much of his petulant, spoiled side.
 
T

Tony Szurly

Guest
"Per Elmsäter" wrote:
>
> "Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:BA3C718F.C97%[email protected]...
> > You've got the wrong SuperMario.
> >
> > http://www.mariodeclercq.cjb.net/
> >
> > Try that one.
> >
> > Adam
> >
>
> I don't follow you at all. I don't give a hoot who SuperMario is. I asked a question about
> Cipollini and now you are just confusing me.
>
> --
> Replace the dots to reply
>
> Perre

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, Per.

Cipo wants the Societe Tour de France to honor the World Champion's jersey and make room for his
team on the Tour roster, so that he can show the jersey and hopefully win a stage ot two at the
Tour. Only time will tell if he will get his wish. There is no provison in the current rules that
automatically gives the World Champion rights to enter any event, other than the next World
Championships (which ironically, Cipo will probably not attend, as the parcours doesn't suit him)
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
"Tony Szurly" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, Per.
>
> Cipo wants the Societe Tour de France to honor the World Champion's jersey and make room for his
> team on the Tour roster, so that he can show the jersey and hopefully win a stage ot two at the
> Tour. Only time will tell if he will get his wish. There is no provison in the current rules that
> automatically gives the World Champion rights to enter any event, other than the next World
> Championships (which ironically, Cipo will probably not attend, as the parcours doesn't suit him)

Thanks, that explains things a bit. Of course it does raise a second question. How are the other
teams on the Tour choosen, qualified? I'm sure the USPS team has a standing invitation as current
defenders ;) but they must have entered for the first time once also.

When Cipo is talking about his team is he talking about the Italian team that won the World
championship for him, or is he talking about some Pro Team he races for when not wearing the
colors of Italy.

--
Replace the dots to reply

Perre
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks, that explains things a bit. Of course it does raise a second question. How are the other
> teams on the Tour choosen, qualified? I'm sure the USPS team has a standing invitation as current
> defenders ;) but they must have entered for the first time once also.

All of the major Tours have a certain set of rules that they must follow - for instance, they are
required to provide entries for so many of the top teams. They are then free to select whomever they
wish from the remaining teams. Each tour has its own commercial requirements and they tend to select
teams that will maximize whichever way they make their profits.

Consequently, they lately have tended to give very high priority even to fairly low level French
teams while leaving many Italian teams which were, ostensibly, better qualified out of the
selections. Furthermore, Mario didn't do himself of his team any favors by his practice of only
riding the first week of the Tour in order to pick the first week headlines winning the usual first
week flat stage sprints. Furthermore, in the past he has had some comments about the Tour and its
organizers that have been somewhat less than diplomatic. As a result, Mario and his team were
excluded from the Tour last year and it pained him greatly and harmed his money making potential in
several markets. His comments were directed towards that.

This practice of the Tour organizers selecting the competitors has led to many complaints. But the
race belongs to its promoters and they should have the final say about who is in and who is out.

> When Cipo is talking about his team is he talking about the Italian team that won the World
> championship for him, or is he talking about some Pro Team he races for when not wearing the
> colors of Italy.

There is only one team. That is his commercial team now dubbed "Domina Vacanze-Elitron". The Italian
national team was made up of riders from many commercial teams and it says absolute reams that they
rode for Mario. There is something about the man that makes even untrustworthy back stabbing self
promoting stars want to ride for him and show him loyalty that is usually unheard of in an Italian
national team which usually contains 10 primadonnas.
 
C

Chris Mitchell

Guest
"Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
> "Per Elmsäter" > wrote in message
>>
The nationalism endemic to all the grand tours (think of la vuelta when Millar got hosed) leads
organizers to favor their own domestic teams. This can produce great results and it can produce
great drama.

It is interesting to follow this line of thought: the great Spanish and Italian results of late came
after one or more decades of running closed grand tours, limiting participation to recognized
international squads (anything associated with Jan Raas is a no-brainer) and powerhouse local
squads. Exposing your own (Ronde, restrain yourself) to elite-level competition lets you sort wheat
from chaff with precision.

If the locals find they can compete against the stars then perhaps they step up their level of
commitment.

Without Guido Bontempi or le grande Basque (Lejaretta) neither Italy nor Spain rise. Both rode for
equipes that took a chance on playing outside their area while committing most to their domestic
grand tours. Their sponsors fielded and supported strong squads in their domestic tours.

If the French continue to elect to close their shop, I think I can begin to understand their
reasoning. They will rise again, and shortly. LA does not get six: five, maybe...six, no.

-Chris Mitchell
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Thanks, that explains things a bit. Of course it does raise a second question. How are the other
> > teams on the Tour choosen, qualified? I'm
sure
> > the USPS team has a standing invitation as current defenders ;) but they must have entered for
> > the first time once also.
>
> All of the major Tours have a certain set of rules that they must follow - for instance, they are
> required to provide entries for so many of the top teams. They are then free to select whomever
> they wish from the remaining teams. Each tour has its own commercial requirements and they tend to
select
> teams that will maximize whichever way they make their profits.
>
> Consequently, they lately have tended to give very high priority even to fairly low level
> French teams while leaving many Italian teams which were, ostensibly, better qualified out of
> the selections. Furthermore, Mario didn't do himself of his team any favors by his practice of
> only riding
the
> first week of the Tour in order to pick the first week headlines winning
the
> usual first week flat stage sprints. Furthermore, in the past he has had some comments about the
> Tour and its organizers that have been somewhat
less
> than diplomatic. As a result, Mario and his team were excluded from the
Tour
> last year and it pained him greatly and harmed his money making potential
in
> several markets. His comments were directed towards that.
>
> This practice of the Tour organizers selecting the competitors has led to many complaints. But the
> race belongs to its promoters and they should
have
> the final say about who is in and who is out.
>
> > When Cipo is talking about his team is he talking about the Italian team that won the World
> > championship for him, or is he talking about some Pro Team he races for when not wearing the
> > colors of Italy.
>
> There is only one team. That is his commercial team now dubbed "Domina Vacanze-Elitron". The
> Italian national team was made up of riders from
many
> commercial teams and it says absolute reams that they rode for Mario.
There
> is something about the man that makes even untrustworthy back stabbing
self
> promoting stars want to ride for him and show him loyalty that is usually unheard of in an Italian
> national team which usually contains 10 primadonnas.
>

Thankyou for a very interesting and informative explanation. It seems to me then that there is
absolutely no reason for the Tour organizers to honor his WC jersey, since he wouldn't be riding
with the same team that took him to that final sprint in the World Championships. I happened to see
the last 45 minutes of that race and was very impressed with how his teammates not only gave him a
ride but also managed to keep the peloton from taking advantage of them. 12 Italians on a single
line at the head of the Peloton was an awesome sight.

--
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Perre
 
K

Kyle Legate

Guest
On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Canuck wrote:

> The "untrustworthy back stabbing self promoting stars" (Bartoli, Rebellin, et al) were left off
> the team by Ballerini.
>
> Ballerini picked riders that would ride as a team. They were not riding for Mario, per se, they
> were riding for Italy.
>
They were also riding for the large financial bonus that would come their way in the event of an
Italian victory.

... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [email protected] Kyle Legate [email protected]

Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca moon
musick:ritual:IDM:experimental(electronica):minimalism:glitch
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...
 
C

Canuck

Guest
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>The Italian national team was made up of riders from many commercial teams and it says absolute
>reams that they rode for Mario.
There
> is something about the man that makes even untrustworthy back stabbing
self
> promoting stars want to ride for him and show him loyalty that is usually unheard of in an Italian
> national team which usually contains 10 primadonnas.

You overstate the case.

The "untrustworthy back stabbing self promoting stars" (Bartoli, Rebellin, et al) were left off the
team by Ballerini.

Ballerini picked riders that would ride as a team. They were not riding for Mario, per se, they were
riding for Italy.
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
"Canuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >The Italian national team was made up of riders from many commercial teams and it says absolute
> >reams that they rode for Mario.
> There
> > is something about the man that makes even untrustworthy back stabbing
> self
> > promoting stars want to ride for him and show him loyalty that is usually unheard of in an
> > Italian national team which usually contains 10 primadonnas.
>
> You overstate the case.
>
> The "untrustworthy back stabbing self promoting stars" (Bartoli, Rebellin, et al) were left off
> the team by Ballerini.

Consistently over the last dozen or so years the Italians have had the best riders in the world and
the highest number of stars on their national team at the World's. Consistently they have raced
harder against each other with petty jealousies that against opposing nations. Sometimes the
intrateam rivalries were so great that we were treated to the spector of Italians pulling a group of
other nations up to a breakaway Italian that would probably have held his lead without the help of
his teammates.

> Ballerini picked riders that would ride as a team. They were not riding for Mario, per se, they
> were riding for Italy.

We have seen over the years that Italians will not ride "for Italy". They were riding for Mario and
make no mistake about that. They certainly weren't riding for Italy when Bugno took the World's two
years in a row despite strong opposition from members of his own team.

Read some of the Italian press about Cipollini. Especially the stuff he says. The man is a showman
on the outside but obviously a thinker on the inside. That is certainly an unusual combination
anywhere and particularly in an Italian sprinter.
 
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