Sure, Trek's not "cool" anymore, but...

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by formernoreasta, Jul 9, 2007.

  1. formernoreasta

    formernoreasta New Member

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    Like the Stewie.
     


  2. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that they're doing anything radical....in fact, they're not. Their new bike is an apparent good amalgam of other manufacturer's ideas. While their flavor of seat mast is new, I don't think there's anything special about it. Having looked at it, I know for a fact that where their clamp is located is just about exactly where my thighs rub my seat post. As for not having to cut the mast, so what? I don't understand why that's an issue. In fact, it's not an issue. Look's 595 and impending 586 have much more elegantly executed seatposts and clamps.

    As for stiffness, that's a non-issue. Completely. I'm still waiting for someone to provide evidence that stiffness has any meaningful benefit to bicycle performance.

    On the downside, Trek is forcing customers to use a limited range for cranks with their BB shell design.

    The bike is only revolutionary in terms of Trek, not in terms of bicycles in general.
     
  3. Powerful Pete

    Powerful Pete New Member

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    :eek: Not heard of Guerciotti? :eek: Sheesh, where do you live? Boston, or Seattle? :rolleyes:

    And for the record, I think Treks are boring too. I will continue to ride an Italian make that no one has ever heard of before. :)
     
  4. bobbyOCR

    bobbyOCR New Member

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    Stiffness makes a frame feel better, not necessarily perform better. Good headtube and massive BB stiffness means that SL01 feels rock-solid through any bend. Then out of the saddle it feels snappy. I'm not gaining any performance benefit, in fact I am probably losing comfort, but it feels great to ride.

    On the second point, exactly. It is a similar frame shape to the Wilier Cento.
    Integrated posts, despite popular belief, don't actually make the frame faster.
    A proprietary integrated external BB system will see the frame hit a few snags in the future.
    Integrating a computer pickup is pointless, because I bet at least 90% of us are using a computer that isn't compatible. I've stopped using mine for a while in favour of heart rate based riding (can't afford power, but want it)
    Proprietary forks, though a good idea, just make the frame even less customisable. And I'm curious as to what the weight of the forks are, with an integrated computer.

    What Trek have done is successfully created a rolling gimimck. None of the ideas they used are actually new, except for the next-to-useless computer pickup, and they may have refined the integrated BB system so you can use SRM, unlike Scott.

    1.125-1.5 forks are from Ridley (and a host of other previous manufacturers. Klein I think as well)

    Integrated seat mass ave been used by at least half of manufacturers

    integrated external BB has been used by at least scott on their addict.

    Apart from that, nothign really stands out. I'm sure it performs well, but there are better looking, better performaing frams out tere that you can actually customise. I wouldn't want to be stuck with the same everything.

    And for god sake I hope they aren't still plastering '7 time tour winner' on all their bikes.
     
  5. ToffoIsMe

    ToffoIsMe New Member

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    You can't really say Trek is taking ideas away from Klein, seeing as how Klein is owned, operated, and manufactured by Trek...
     
  6. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    I'd never argue the benefits of good "feel." I'm one of the original signatories to the If It Feels Good, Do It manifesto.

    A friend, known for his unflinching criticisms, has put some miles on one of the new Madones and says that he was actually impressed, very impressed. His daily ride is a Parlee and has put loads of miles on a bunch of other frames. I think it is the first Madone that isn't mortally boring to look at. I think it actually looks semi-ok.

    Alas, I've no respect at all for the Bontrager name or design ethic (Does anyone actually think that paired spokes are beneficial in any way?), and I don't think I would buy anything Bontrager even if such a purchase would save Mankind.

    I think Trek could do themselves a favor by selling their frame/forks seperately, so's people could build 'em the way they wanted.
     
  7. ToffoIsMe

    ToffoIsMe New Member

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    So who decided that bontrager parts are crap? Have you ever ridden any of their products? I've been able to ride on a ton of different bontrager parts ranging from the low level select and sport lines up to the top of the line xXx lite line, and never had any problems with anything. I currently have a xxx lite carbon stem and x lite carbon bars on my bike and they are MUCH stiffer than the Ritchey Pro bars and stem I had on before.

    Try this one on-bontrager carbon stems and bars are made in the same factory, with the same molds, and the same carbon as the zipp carbon bars and stem and are cheaper than the zipp branded ones. Of course this doesnt matter because bontrager parts suck, so you would probably rather have the zipp branded stuff, right?
     
  8. 9202

    9202 New Member

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    What's a Trek?
     
  9. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Well, I did. If you consider all their parts, none of them are particularly spectacular. Far from it. They're at best week-old vanilla. Now, their wheels........ Paired spokes? Give me a break. Actually, Bontrager did give me a break: I got to see first hand how a Race X Lite tacos when a hub flange disintegrates and two spokes are lost. From an engineering and design point of view, paired spokes are stupid. They're worse aerodynamically and pains in the ass when it comes to building/truing.

    There is absolutely nothing interesting at all about their as yet to be sold XXX crank. Nada. Their new brakes? Zippo. Mavic SSC's are as light or lighter and are stellar performers. And they look better, to boot.

    The best of Bontrager's stuff is nothing that someone else hasn't done before. Given that, what exactly is it that Keith Bontrager does?
     
  10. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    And look what's happened since Trek bought Klein. Klein certainly doesn't have the attraction or sales that it had before.

    Trek's kinda like Microsoft like that. Instead of developing, buy someone else's idea, and call it yours.
     
  11. bobbyOCR

    bobbyOCR New Member

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    Alienator beat me to it.

    Paired spokes is the single dumbest idea for a bike wheel since...dunno...its creation?

    Trek/Bontrager bought Rolf, used their ideas, and through some twist of luck, Rolf continued as Rolf Prima, building reasonable wheels.

    Klein were innovators, with great paintjobs, until Trek bought them out. Now nobody really wants to buy a Klein, and nobody over here owns a Klein built after Trek bought them. They use Truvativ cranks AFAIK. They use Zipp bars and stem (which I wouldn't ride anyway. Bontrager logos look like crap and alloy stems are just better at the moment), at least some of their bars and stems. The only product I'd even consider using is the VR bend bar. Other than that, no.

    Oh and I thought Klein used the larger bottom bearing on the steerer before Trek bought them out.
     
  12. Bikelyst

    Bikelyst New Member

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    How do you have any basis to form the fact that Specialized has some of the highest technology going? Ohh! Did you read from there website? Bit odd when essentially every company is saying the same thing, hmm? Except LOOK bikes, they don't count. They cute.
     
  13. bobbyOCR

    bobbyOCR New Member

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    You also know what's great. The SL01, size 58cm, traditional geometry, is laterally stiffer than a Tarmac S-Works with its compact geometry (48 c-top of top tube vs ~57 c-t on an SL01. Same size TT) by around 5%.
     
  14. formernoreasta

    formernoreasta New Member

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    Everyone is proving my point exactly. Thanks!
     
  15. Tim Lamkin

    Tim Lamkin New Member

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    ,...your opinion.
     
  16. artemidorus

    artemidorus New Member

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    The day Bobby stops telling us about his SL01 will be the day the sky falls in! ;)
     
  17. bobbyOCR

    bobbyOCR New Member

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    But that is just because it is so incredibly good

    :D

    and much cooler than Trek.
     
  18. IEatRice4Dinner

    IEatRice4Dinner New Member

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    i love mine... one day when im rich ill get an SLT01 :)
     
  19. ToffoIsMe

    ToffoIsMe New Member

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    I'm not too familiar with any of specialized's road bikes, but I know in the bmx world, anything that says s-works on it is rediculously over-priced and over-advertised, and gauranteed to fail at least twice as fast as the competing frames. If specialized's road bikes are anything similar, than comparing the SL01 to an s-works bike isn't saying much.

    I will say though, that the SL01 is a very nice frame. I have never had the chance to ride one (yet. this may change soon since a coworker of mine recently got a used one), but I have been able to check them out in person, and other than the very high price tag, they look amazing.


    No back to Trek/Bontrager-while they may not be the most innovative company, as a lot of people have pointed out, they are still a good company and one that the industry (at least in the USA) could not do well without. Yes, Trek does use ideas from some other companies, the most recent being the 2008 x-lite stem which is identical to the ritchey 4-axis, but they offer their products at a lower price point, which gets the stuff out to the masses. A person who is just getting into riding road bikes isn't looking to spend $4,500 on a frameset, they wouldn't even spend that on a complete bike, but they can get on a good quality, mid level bike for $1,500 or even a full carbon bike for $1,800 from Trek, which will at least get them rolling. After that they can worry about getting more advanced, cutting-edge components from the manufacturers that originally came up with the ideas. Trek is a needed stepping stone in getting people into the sport.

    Scenario time!
    Bobby-you race as a junior, correct? If yes, then lets say your bike got stolen. You are young so you don't have tons of spare money to blow. In this scenario, there is no shop hooking you up with good prices, just you and whatever money you have. Will you give up riding for months or a year to try to save money to buy a new BMC, or would you settle for something that isn't "innovative" just so you could get back on your bike as fast as possible and worry about building a high end bike again later on?



    edit-moral of the story is Trek has its place in the bike industry, and for their clientelle they are a great company and a bargain. So what if the idea was originally someone else's? At least Trek is getting people onto bike, and I can gaurantee you that put more new riders on bikes every year than BMC, or any of the other more expensive, higher end brands used by people whom are addicted to the sport.
     
  20. bobbyOCR

    bobbyOCR New Member

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    I would use my (incomplete) track bike for road training for a while, use my frankenstein Avalanche 700c hybrid SS (built completely out of spare parts), or throw some slicks on my XtC.

    Thanks Crank N' Cycles.

    Otherwise Dirtworks has a small cache of 54cm SL01s so I wouldn't be waiting all that long (have a spare 105 10-speed group, forks, cranks, arione, handlebar, stem, wheels, tyres, except bar tape and cassette lying around (brakes and arione on my frankenstein)) assuming I am still working at the bike shop but getting no special deals and no sponsorship.

    But I would kill whoever stole the SL01. An invaluable amount of time and effort has gone into tracking down parts, at minimum cost, that suit the frame perfectly. Most of the parts there I got OEM or at incredible deals. Despite its moderate overall monetary value, for the calibre of the equipment, it is almost a part of me.
     
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