Sustrans

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Peter Main, Jun 20, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Peter Main

    Peter Main Guest

    Sustrans has a lot to answer for. I am sure many of the people in Sustrans are well meaning and hard
    working but the organisation seems to have developed a momentum of it's own driven from the top.
    This momentum is based on a 'jobs worth' attitude of preserving the organisation and the jobs that
    it contains. There is little or no interest in listening to the people out in the field or on the
    ground. In fact these people are considered to be a nuisance if they choose to do any more than
    quietly clear rubbish and clear path obstructions. When I started rocking the boat a bit (with the
    best intentions) I had phone calls from Bristol and N.England more or less telling me to keep quiet
    as well as a letter from Grimshaw himself. He seems to view the world through rose tinted glasses. A
    world where no litter is dropped, no lorries tip rubbish on the track and NO ONE throws glass
    bottles out of car windows that smash on the track. In his world all new track are perfectly
    constructed, so there is no need to address any problems.

    As I said, I wasted many hours writing reports and contacting relevant authorities after
    inspections. All my efforts were completely ignored and there is nothing I as an individual can do
    about a lorry load of builders waste. So..... I resign.

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 10/06/03
     
    Tags:


  2. "Peter Main" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Sustrans has a lot to answer for. I am sure many of the people in Sustrans are well meaning and
    > hard working but the organisation seems to have developed a momentum of it's own driven from the
    > top. This momentum is
    based
    > on a 'jobs worth' attitude of preserving the organisation and the jobs
    that
    > it contains.

    Ditto every single transport pressure group. Which is why its so damned difficult to get from A to B
    in Britain :-(
     
  3. > In his world all new track are perfectly constructed, so there is no need to address any problems.

    In my world, just down the road from me, NCN route 13 has sections of narrow footpath with pictures
    of bikes painted on them, so the narrow footpath is now a narrow shared path - and come complete
    with bollards in the middle of them! Right next to a perfectly good wide road. Other bits include
    *very narrow* country lane with grass growing up the middle of the single track road, potholes and
    broken away road edge.

    Cheers, helen s

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
    h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
    overdependence on money and fame
    ~~~~~~~~~~
     
  4. Neil Hardman

    Neil Hardman Guest

    In my opinion this is the biggest problem with cycle paths... they are routed next to perfectly good
    roads that cyclists are entitled to use but the mere provision of these paths is liable to create a
    form of apartheid where cyclist are eventually forced off the roads and onto the cycle paths.

    Regards, Neil

    "wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > In his world all new track are perfectly constructed, so there is no need to address any
    > > problems.
    >
    > In my world, just down the road from me, NCN route 13 has sections of
    narrow
    > footpath with pictures of bikes painted on them, so the narrow footpath is
    now
    > a narrow shared path - and come complete with bollards in the middle of
    them!
    > Right next to a perfectly good wide road. Other bits include *very narrow* country lane with grass
    > growing up the middle of the single track road, potholes and broken away road edge.
    >
    > Cheers, helen s
    >
    >
    > ~~~~~~~~~~
    > This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
    > h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
    > overdependence on money and fame
    > ~~~~~~~~~~
     
  5. Andy P

    Andy P Guest

    "wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX" <[email protected]> wrote

    > In my world, just down the road from me, NCN route 13 has sections of
    narrow
    > footpath with pictures of bikes painted on them, so the narrow footpath is
    now
    > a narrow shared path - and come complete with bollards in the middle of
    them!
    > Right next to a perfectly good wide road. Other bits include *very narrow* country lane with grass
    > growing up the middle of the single track road, potholes and broken away road edge.

    The bits of cyclepath that have been popping up on between Bristol, Avonmouth and the Severn Bridge
    over the last few years (NCN route 4 or 41 I think) are excellent and have made my journey far more
    pleasurable.
     
  6. Garry Broad

    Garry Broad Guest

    On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 09:08:15 +0100, "Neil Hardman"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In my opinion this is the biggest problem with cycle paths... they are routed next to
    >perfectly good roads that cyclists are entitled to use but the mere provision of these paths
    >is liable to create a form of apartheid where cyclist are eventually forced off the roads and
    >onto the cycle paths.

    Albeit gradually, this is definitely something I can see happening over here.....depressingly.

    Garry

    >Regards, Neil
    >
    >"wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> > In his world all new track are perfectly constructed, so there is no need to address any
    >> > problems.
    >>
    >> In my world, just down the road from me, NCN route 13 has sections of
    >narrow
    >> footpath with pictures of bikes painted on them, so the narrow footpath is
    >now
    >> a narrow shared path - and come complete with bollards in the middle of
    >them!
    >> Right next to a perfectly good wide road. Other bits include *very narrow* country lane with
    >> grass growing up the middle of the single track road, potholes and broken away road edge.
    >>
    >> Cheers, helen s
    >>
    >>
    >> ~~~~~~~~~~
    >> This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
    >> h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
    >> overdependence on money and fame
    >> ~~~~~~~~~~
     
  7. "Neil Hardman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In my opinion this is the biggest problem with cycle paths... they are routed next to perfectly
    > good roads that cyclists are entitled to use but the mere provision of these paths is liable to
    > create a form of apartheid where cyclist are eventually forced off the roads and onto the cycle
    paths.
    >
    > Regards, Neil
    >

    Would that really be a problem if cycle paths were well designed and maintained? I mean you don't
    hear many people complaining that motorways create a form of apartheid! :)
     
  8. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "Nathaniel Porter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Would that really be a problem if cycle paths were well designed and maintained? I mean you don't
    > hear many people complaining that motorways create a form of apartheid! :)

    True -- but then 'everyone' seems too presume that a driver can take either the motorway or a
    collection of B roads to get from A to B. Once there is a cycle track motorists seem to imagine that
    all cyclists should take the equivalent of the collection of B roads meandering from A to B rather
    than the direct route that they want to have sole use of.

    T
     
  9. Neil Hardman

    Neil Hardman Guest

    That's true, but Motorways are specifically legislated and designed for motor traffic and no-one is
    demanding that cars only use motorways. It seems to me that cycle paths are the thin end of the
    wedge in that they engender a change in the attitude of the motorist such that they expect cyclists
    to use cycle paths if provided. I for one, don't want to because of the arguments previously well
    trodden in this NG, i.e. dog filth, glass, having to stop at far too many junctions etc.

    Regards, Neil

    "Nathaniel Porter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Neil Hardman" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In my opinion this is the biggest problem with cycle paths... they are routed next to perfectly
    > > good roads that cyclists are entitled to use
    but
    > > the mere provision of these paths is liable to create a form of
    apartheid
    > > where cyclist are eventually forced off the roads and onto the cycle
    > paths.
    > >
    > > Regards, Neil
    > >
    >
    > Would that really be a problem if cycle paths were well designed and maintained? I mean you don't
    > hear many people complaining that motorways create a form of apartheid! :)
     
  10. Mike Gayler

    Mike Gayler Guest

    "Andy P" <[email protected]> writed in news:[email protected]:

    > "wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    >> In my world, just down the road from me, NCN route 13 has sections of
    > narrow
    >> footpath with pictures of bikes painted on them, so the narrow footpath is
    > now
    >> a narrow shared path - and come complete with bollards in the middle of
    > them!
    >> Right next to a perfectly good wide road. Other bits include *very narrow* country lane with
    >> grass growing up the middle of the single track road, potholes and broken away road edge.
    >
    > The bits of cyclepath that have been popping up on between Bristol, Avonmouth and the Severn
    > Bridge over the last few years (NCN route 4 or 41 I think) are excellent and have made my journey
    > far more pleasurable.
    >
    I think that this is what the OP what saying when he said that Sistrans were 'well meaning' - some
    of the Sustrans routes are excellent (eg Route 6 between Blaby & leicester City Centre, and again
    between Market Harborough and the edge of Northampton) but other parts (eg everywhere where there
    are shared use pavements at the side of a perfectly good road) are an excuse for 'facilities'.
    Without Sustrans I doubt the network of alternative routes created from disused rail lines would
    exist, but equally Sustrans are furthering (or actively promoting) the apartheid culture and that's
    why I won't give them my money. Furthermore! All their literature promotes 'traffic free' routes -
    as a cyclist *I am Traffic*!

    Rant Over

    Michael Leicester
     
  11. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > In his world all new track are perfectly constructed, so there is no need to address any
    > > problems.
    >
    > In my world, just down the road from me,
    <snip> Other bits include *very narrow*
    > country lane with grass growing up the middle of the single track road, potholes and broken away
    > road edge.
    >
    > Cheers, helen s

    Very much easier to maintain than a nice shiny new bit of tarmac ;-)

    Dave.
     
  12. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Nathaniel Porter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Neil Hardman" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In my opinion this is the biggest problem with cycle paths... they are routed next to perfectly
    > > good roads that cyclists are entitled to use
    but
    > > the mere provision of these paths is liable to create a form of
    apartheid
    > > where cyclist are eventually forced off the roads and onto the cycle
    > paths.
    > >
    > > Regards, Neil
    > >
    >
    > Would that really be a problem if cycle paths were well designed and maintained? I mean you don't
    > hear many people complaining that motorways create a form of apartheid! :)
    >
    Yes but have you ever tried getting from one side of a field / whatever to the other if there's a
    motorway going straight through the middle without a convenient bridge for miles ? More succesful
    apartheid than was ever achieved in South Africa ;-) Dave. (...who is nevertheless extremely
    grateful for motorways as they provide for quicker transport across this beautiful country of ours,
    resulting in me seeing more of it than I ever would have without them. ;-)
     
  13. Andy P

    Andy P Guest

    "Mike Gayler" <[email protected]> wrote

    > Without Sustrans I doubt the network of alternative routes created from disused rail lines would
    > exist, but equally Sustrans are furthering (or actively promoting) the apartheid culture and
    > that's why I won't give them my money. Furthermore! All their literature promotes 'traffic free'
    > routes - as a cyclist *I am Traffic*!

    Why all these negative "apartheid" views? As I cyclist I see myself as very lucky in the choices I
    have. On my daily commute to work I can use the road, various bits of shared use cycle path, go
    through a park and even make use of a dockside path which technically isn't a right of way to
    anyone. On the other routes I use regularly to get to various places, I use a mix of road,
    cyclepath, forestry tracks and rough bridleways depending on the weather and how quick I want to
    get there.
     
  14. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:48:04 +0100, "Andy P" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Why all these negative "apartheid" views? As I cyclist I see myself as very lucky in the
    >choices I have.

    Because the bicycle apartheid is forcing us gradually off the roads.

    --
    Dave...
     
  15. Rj Webb

    Rj Webb Guest

    I have recently tried out a few hundred miles of Sustrans routes. Generally I ignore the narrow
    footways and use the adjacent road, but the funny ways through the cities are great fun, and open up
    urban places, where I would not normally consider going to on a bike.

    The thing that really rats me off about cycleways is th all too frequent "Cyclists Dismount" signs.
    If I want to walk I'd leave my bike behind.

    The worse one, was Wychnor, Staffs. There is a good well surfaced track. Halfway along this track
    crosses a parish boundary and due to the quirks of the definitive map swiches from BW to footpath.
    In true jobsworth fashion, there is the dreaded blue sign. As if anyone would.

    Richard Webb
     
  16. Ian_Sly

    Ian_Sly New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    This attack on Sustrans is really unwarranted. I’m a Sustrans supporter, and I’m proud of the work that Sustrans has done to raise the profile of cycling in the UK, and to provide facilities for novice cyclists. For a small, underfunded charity they do an amazing amount of good work.

    Rather than attacking Sustrans, the people we should be attacking are the government, and the Scottish Executive in Scotland for not taking cycling seriously. While in Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands, government cycling policy is clear, well-defined and well-funded, in the UK we have the government giving lottery cash to a charity, and they consider that to be ‘job done’.

    So come on, Peter – direct your fire where it’s warranted, not at the organisation that is actually making a difference for cyclists in the UK!

    Ian



     
  17. "Ian_Sly" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Peter Main wrote:
    > > Sustrans has a lot to answer for. I am sure many of the people in Sustrans are well meaning
    > > and hard working but the organisation seems
    to
    > > have developed a momentum of it's own driven from the top. This
    momentum
    > > is based on a 'jobs worth' attitude of preserving the organisation and the jobs that it
    > > contains. There is little or no interest in listening to the people out in the field or on the
    > > ground. In fact these people are considered to be a nuisance if they choose to do any more
    > > than quietly clear rubbish and clear path obstructions. When I started rocking the boat a bit
    > > (with the best intentions) I had phone calls
    from
    > > Bristol and N.England more or less telling me to keep quiet as well as
    a
    > > letter from Grimshaw himself. He seems to view the world through rose tinted glasses. A world
    > > where no litter is dropped, no lorries tip rubbish on the track and NO ONE throws glass
    > > bottles out of car
    windows
    > > that smash on the track. In his world all new track are perfectly constructed, so there is no
    > > need to address any problems. As I said, I wasted many hours writing reports and contacting
    > > relevant authorities after inspections. All my efforts were completely ignored and there is
    > > nothing I as an individual can do about a lorry load of builders waste. So..... I resign.
    > > ---
    > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus
    system
    > > (http://www.grisoft.com/http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 -
    > > Release Date: 10/06/03
    >
    > This attack on Sustrans is really unwarranted. I'm a Sustrans supporter, and I'm proud of the work
    > that Sustrans has done to raise the profile of cycling in the UK, and to provide facilities for
    > novice cyclists. For a small, underfunded charity they do an amazing amount of good work.
    >
    > Rather than attacking Sustrans, the people we should be attacking are the government, and the
    > Scottish Executive in Scotland for not taking cycling seriously. While in Germany, Denmark and the
    > Netherlands, government cycling policy is clear, well-defined and well-funded, in the UK we have
    > the government giving lottery cash to a charity, and they consider that to be 'job done'.
    >
    > So come on, Peter - direct your fire where it's warranted, not at the organisation that is
    > actually making a difference for cyclists in the UK!
    >
    > Ian
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > >--------------------------<
    > Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com

    The Scottish Executive gave Sustrans £1.5 million last year to bring cycle routers up to a good
    standard. And there is more to come for cycling...
     
  18. RJ Webb wrote:

    >I have recently tried out a few hundred miles of Sustrans routes. Generally I ignore the narrow
    >footways and use the adjacent road, but the funny ways through the cities are great fun, and open
    >up urban places, where I would not normally consider going to on a bike.

    Done part of the North Sea route last year (from Harwich to Newcastle) and didn't like the cities
    stretches one bit! Ended up just riding in and out of city centres along the main roads; better than
    running the Sustrans obstacle course! I must admit that large parts of the route were along
    pleasantly empty and scenic roads, and the railway parts were esp. nice (but often impassable when
    wet), but it would seem that Sustrans thinks all cyclists have full suspended MTBs, carry no
    luggage, and are scared stiff of traffic...

    >The thing that really rats me off about cycleways is th all too frequent "Cyclists Dismount" signs.
    >If I want to walk I'd leave my bike behind.

    Over here (NL) such signs are only there to protect road workers from liability, and are only
    "advisory". Does the same hold true in Blighty?
     
  19. Ian_Sly

    Ian_Sly New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    £1.5m is a drop in the ocean compared to the £500m that the Executive is pouring into a 5-mile motorway in Glasgow which the locals don't want and which will only alleviate congestion for a couple of years at most.

    If the Executive is so keen on cycling, why don't they get their act together and start maintaining the routes we've already got? Unless I've got it wrong, the Executive is responsible for the route over Drumochter which Peter Main was originally complaining about?

    Ian

    ---

    Originally posted by Geoff Pearson:

    The Scottish Executive gave Sustrans £1.5 million last year to bring cycle routers up to a good
    standard. And there is more to come for cycling...
     
  20. Iarocu

    Iarocu Guest

    Ian_Sly <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > £1.5m is a drop in the ocean compared to the £500m that the Executive is pouring into a 5-mile
    > motorway in Glasgow which the locals don't want and which will only alleviate congestion for a
    > couple of years at most. The M74 extension should in fact take through traffic off other roads
    making them more pleasant to cycle on. As does the M8 motorway where it runs near to Edinburgh Road
    in Glasgow. The M8 was built about 30 years ago and is still not overloaded at that point.
    Edinburgh Rd is a 6 lane dual carriageway which was superceded by the M8 and now carriies only
    light local traffic. Compare Edinburgh Rd to Maryhill Rd or gt Western Rd Glasgow which don,t have
    a nearby motorway taking traffic away. Both roads have queued traffic much of the day. The same
    argument goes for rural motorways as well. Cycle the old A74. A dual carriageway Rd superceded by
    the M74 from Gretna to Hamilton. Most of the way from the border the old A74 carries a car a minute
    or less. Great Rd to cycle. Made that way by the Motorway taking traffic away.With regads to te
    cost £500m looks cheap compared to the £800m being talked about for upgrading one train station -
    Waverley in Edinburgh. Don,t get me wrong, I,m a cyclist and I,m in favour of certain cycle lanes,
    Drumochter being a good example. Not enough is spent on them. But motorways benefit cyclists by
    takling traffic away .
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...