Swim in your underwear, use a huffy, and run barefoot

Discussion in 'Triathlon' started by IMBudd, Mar 3, 2004.

  1. IMBudd

    IMBudd Guest

    I see a lot of questions on this board focusing on equipment. How important is equipment to the
    average age grouper?

    Let's get real...even if you use Nike clubs you are never going to play as good as Tiger. I say use
    whatever you got at the moment. If you turn pro and seconds count, then start looking for an edge in
    equipment. Otherwise, comfort in an IM is what matters.

    So go ahead and load beer into that drink system on your bike just make sure its light beer!
     
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  2. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (IMBudd) wrote:

    > I see a lot of questions on this board focusing on equipment. How important is equipment to the
    > average age grouper?
    >
    > Let's get real...even if you use Nike clubs you are never going to play as good as Tiger. I say
    > use whatever you got at the moment. If you turn pro and seconds count, then start looking for an
    > edge in equipment. Otherwise, comfort in an IM is what matters.
    >
    > So go ahead and load beer into that drink system on your bike just make sure its light beer!

    Don't let the equipment manufacturers hear you say that!

    Seriously, though, triathlon attracts a lot of people who think they'll start winning if they just
    spend enough money on bikes, wetsuits, shoes, race wheels, and other gear. You're right: go as fast
    as you can on the equipment you have.

    I'm pretty happy with my bike, which I got on clearance for $650 (adding on shoes, pedals, aerobars,
    a fitting, and other gear took it up to around $1000, I think), and I'm very comfortable on it. It
    would be cool to have a lighter, more aero bike, but then again it would be cool to have a Ferrari,
    and I haven't tried to spend the money to get one of those, either.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

    - Homer J. Simpson
     
  3. mrs dalloway

    mrs dalloway New Member

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    It all depends on how badly you are driven. You can't apply your logic to all age groupers or competitors. I'm an age grouper who races for a national charitable organization to raise awareness for their cause. I have equipped myself with the best equipment I can afford based on reviews, history of the company, reliability and projected performance. I believe in awareness through performance and results. Tiger, Gretzky, Armstrong, are all gifted specialists. They could get their jobs done with sticks or tricycles there is no doubt there. But there is nothing wrong with getting high end equipment if you are willing to put in the high end effort. You don't need to be a pro. Everyone has their own agenda and individual drive. I will agree with you that sitting your un-trained butt on a $5,000 bike will not make one second of difference to an "average age grouper" or a pro without the drive and proper training. But as we have seen in the latest issues of Triathlete and Inside Triathlon there are a lot of age groupers striving to be the best in the nation or the world. Which means perhaps there are some people visiting this site who are striving to be the best in there state or province or county and who are looking for helpful answers and directions.
     
  4. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    mrs dalloway <[email protected]> wrote:

    > IMBudd wrote:
    > > I see a lot of questions on this board focusing on equipment. How important is equipment to
    > > the average age grouper?
    <SNIP>
    > But as we have seen in the latest issues of Triathlete and Inside Triathlon there are a lot of age
    > groupers striving to be the best in the nation or the world. Which means perhaps there are some
    > people visiting this site who are striving to be the best in there state or province or county and
    > who are looking for helpful answers and directions.

    Such people do not fit the definition of the "average age grouper."

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

    - Homer J. Simpson
     
  5. Curt

    Curt Guest

    I agree, but if I was a real rich person, it would be fun to shop. I am riding a nice bike, but it
    is over 15 years old. Unfortunately, I think it is set up wrong for me. As you can tell, I am not
    one of those rich people.

    Curt

    "IMBudd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I see a lot of questions on this board focusing on equipment. How important is equipment to the
    > average age grouper?
    >
    > Let's get real...even if you use Nike clubs you are never going to play as good as Tiger. I say
    > use whatever you got at the moment. If you turn pro and seconds count, then start looking for an
    > edge in equipment. Otherwise, comfort in an IM is what matters.
    >
    > So go ahead and load beer into that drink system on your bike just make sure its light beer!
     
  6. > So go ahead and load beer into that drink system on your bike just make sure its light beer!

    Surprised no one has taken the bait on this one yet, while you might be right about kit etc. alcohol
    is both against the rules and dangerous. Personally I don't want some dehydrated, beer'd up drunk
    wobbling all over the road on his bike in front of me on the bike course in a triathlon. Save the
    beer for the cooler and the celebrations afterwards where you can laugh at all those people who take
    their sport too seriously. ++Mark.
     
  7. Mike Tennent

    Mike Tennent Guest

    [email protected] (IMBudd) wrote:

    > Otherwise, comfort in an IM is what matters.

    And which do you think will be more comfortable in 65 degree water? Baggies or a wetsuit?

    Which will be more comfortable after 112 miles at Lake Placid? A 45lb Huffy or a QR Tequilla?

    Which will be more comfortable 15 miles into the run? Good running shoes or penny loafers?

    I agree with your basic premise that the highest tech equipment is unnecessary for "the average age
    grouper." However, there is a level of equipment that you should be at if you want to compete in an
    IM. It does make a difference.

    BTW, this totally ignores the guy at Lake Placid who does do the whole thing in baggies, on a Huffy,
    and in old tennis shoes. He's another story altogether.

    Mike Tennent

    "IronPenguin"
     
  8. Old Timer

    Old Timer Guest

    Agreed, with qualifications.

    My Huffy is not going to permit me to hold 24 mph for a sprint distance triathlon, helping me to the
    podium, no matter what the shape I am in. My $5000 Calfee does occasionally allow me to do that. So
    would a lesser priced bike, but there is a point of diminishing returns that stops somewhere in
    between an old Schwinn ten speed and a Huffy mountain bike.

    For me, that $5k is worth every penny. I'm driven to try for the podium. The comfort of that
    bike, the durability, reliability, and joy to drive it gets me out on that bike more often than a
    lesser quality, not so comfortable bike would. That happens regardless of whether I'm in a racing
    year or not.

    If you had to take a long long drive in a nice comfy car or a beat up old buggy, and you had the
    choice of both, not many folks would choose the buggy.

    Some folks enjoy new equipment, technical innovations, and the likes. I sure like my technical
    fabrics over good old cotton - don't you? Some guys like doing it old style, either for attention,
    nostalgia, or the sense of accomplishment. Some of them like passing folks on expensive bikes. Fine
    with me whatever their reason.

    I recall seeing "Retroman" in cut off jeans shorts, converse sneakers, and a single speed bike with
    funny handlebars at Lake Placid. He wasn't going as fast as me, but he seemed to be enjoying the
    race just the same. Good for him, good for me.
     
  9. Andrew Smith

    Andrew Smith Guest

    "Old Timer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Agreed, with qualifications.
    >
    > My Huffy is not going to permit me to hold 24 mph for a sprint distance triathlon, helping me to
    > the podium, no matter what the shape I am in. My $5000 Calfee does occasionally allow me to do
    > that. So would a lesser priced bike, but there is a point of diminishing returns that stops
    > somewhere in between an old Schwinn ten speed and a Huffy mountain bike.
    >
    > For me, that $5k is worth every penny. I'm driven to try for the podium. The comfort of that
    > bike, the durability, reliability, and joy to drive it gets me out on that bike more often than a
    > lesser quality, not so comfortable bike would. That happens regardless of whether I'm in a racing
    > year or not.
    >
    > If you had to take a long long drive in a nice comfy car or a beat up old buggy, and you had the
    > choice of both, not many folks would choose the buggy.
    >
    > Some folks enjoy new equipment, technical innovations, and the likes. I sure like my technical
    > fabrics over good old cotton - don't you? Some guys like doing it old style, either for attention,
    > nostalgia, or the sense of accomplishment. Some of them like passing folks on expensive bikes.
    > Fine with me whatever their reason.
    >
    > I recall seeing "Retroman" in cut off jeans shorts, converse sneakers, and a single speed bike
    > with funny handlebars at Lake Placid. He wasn't going as fast as me, but he seemed to be enjoying
    > the race just the same. Good for him, good for me.

    I was talking to a guy the other day and he said he passed a guy on a 3-speed beach cruiser.

    a.
     
  10. mrs dalloway

    mrs dalloway New Member

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    Then what is your definition of the average age grouper? A person who has no will or drive to get to the podium in any race at all, therefore they are fine with whatever equipment is at hand? OK. Just a person who wants to be there and do the deed? OK. Because the very nature of searching for better equipment, better timings, and better results will oft re-define the individual will it not? That is to say that the person who wants to succeed is no longer to be considered average by measurement of determination. His/her goal setting (and subsequent search for equipment) denotes a need to be better than he/she currently perceives the self. Average in physical ability, yes, right now and maybe forever. But average in size of the heart, the will , and determination should not be trivialized and the individual should not be made to think that he/she is being silly or ridiculous in the search for better equipment. I would agree that people are in need of reminders that equipment alone will not do the job when it comes to physical sports ( as opposed to race car driving if you consider that a sport). But to catagorize individuals as average and risk not feeding the human desire or drive to attain higher goals at any level seems to me to be counter productive to the spirit. Subsequently, the follow up statement to an average age grouper would be " You are average like me, therefore you shouldn't use better equipment than me or what I believe you should use." Is this the message? Now we must all turn in our Louisville hockey sticks, CCM or Bauer skates, Nike soccer shoes, and the list goes on and on as the dreams go down.
     
  11. Mike Tennent

    Mike Tennent Guest

    mrs dalloway <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Harold Buck wrote:
    >
    > > Such people do not fit the definition of the "average age grouper." --Harold Buck "I used to
    > > rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."
    > > - Homer J. Simpson
    >
    >
    >
    >Then what is your definition of the average age grouper? A person who has no will or drive to get
    >to the podium in any race at all, therefore they are fine with whatever equipment is at hand? OK.
    >Just a person who wants to be there and do the deed? OK.

    Keep going, you left out the definition of average age grouper - the guy/gal who knows they'll never
    be on the podium but nevertheless tries to do the best they can given time limitations for training
    due to life, family, job, budget, etc.

    Mike Tennent Just your average IronPenguin "IronPenguin"
     
  12. Mike Tennent

    Mike Tennent Guest

    mrs dalloway <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Harold Buck wrote:
    >
    > > Such people do not fit the definition of the "average age grouper." --Harold Buck "I used to
    > > rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."
    > > - Homer J. Simpson
    >
    >
    >
    >Then what is your definition of the average age grouper? A person who has no will or drive to get
    >to the podium in any race at all, therefore they are fine with whatever equipment is at hand? OK.
    >Just a person who wants to be there and do the deed? OK.

    Keep going, you left out the definition of average age grouper - the guy/gal who knows they'll never
    be on the podium but nevertheless tries to do the best they can given time limitations for training
    due to life, family, job, budget, etc.

    Mike Tennent Just your average IronPenguin "IronPenguin"
     
  13. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    mrs dalloway <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Then what is your definition of the average age grouper? A person who has no will or drive to get
    > to the podium in any race at all, therefore they are fine with whatever equipment is at hand?

    No, a person who knows that, realistically, given their talent and available time to train they will
    not be on the podium unless a large number of faster competitors befall some misfortune.

    > OK. Just a person who wants to be there and do the deed? OK. Because the very nature of searching
    > for better equipment, better timings, and better results will oft re-define the individual will it
    > not? That is to say that the person who wants to succeed is no longer to be considered average by
    > measurement of determination.

    So, no matter how slow I am, I'm no longer average if I spend $10,000 on equipment in the hopes that
    it will make me faster and put me on the podium?

    >His/her goal setting (and subsequent search for equipment) denotes a need to be better than he/she
    >currently perceives the self. Average in physical ability, yes, right now and maybe forever. But
    >average in size of the heart, the will , and determination should not be trivialized and the
    >individual should not be made to think that he/she is being silly or ridiculous in the search for
    >better equipment. I would agree that people are in need of reminders that equipment alone will not
    >do the job when it comes to physical sports

    That's the whole point: buying equipment to get fast is putting the cart before the horse. Get fast
    on the equipment you have. When you get to the point where you're placing close to the podium, then
    investing money in equipment might make sense to you. Or not.

    It's not silly to want better equipment if you have the money and if you think it will make you
    happy. It's silly to spend money on equipment if you're an average age grouper, if you want to be on
    the podium, and if you'll still be average in terms of finishes after you buy more equipment.

    > ( as opposed to race car driving if you consider that a sport). But to catagorize individuals as
    > average and risk not feeding the human desire or drive to attain higher goals at any level seems
    > to me to be counter productive to the spirit.

    So, you think it's better to try to convince people who have no hope of being on the podium that
    they just need better equipment and training to make it there? Sorry, but I can't endorse giving
    people false hope like that, although the equipment dealers are all for it.

    And why can't cutting a few minutes of your Olympic-distance time on your current equipment be
    considered a "higher goal"?

    >Subsequently, the follow up statement to an average age grouper would be " You are average like
    >me, therefore you shouldn't use better equipment than me or what I believe you should use." Is
    >this the message?

    No, it's a ridiculous mis-characterization. Did anyone say "Don't spend money on equipment if it
    will give you better equipment than I have"? No. The message is "Don't spend a fortune on equipment
    with the belief that it will make you faster if you're an average age grouper, unless you can afford
    it and have other good reasons for doing so.

    >Now we must all turn in our Louisville hockey sticks, CCM or Bauer skates, Nike soccer shoes, and
    >the list goes on and on as the dreams go down.

    Do you have stock in these companies?

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

    - Homer J. Simpson
     
  14. mrs dalloway

    mrs dalloway New Member

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    [

    Do you have stock in these companies?

    Ahhhhh how sweet that would be Harold. Thank you very much for the debate, I appreciate it. Good luck in your races.
    Mrs. D.
     
  15. I think we are always considering our financial resources
    versus the "advantages" of equipment of various prices.
    Sometimes money can buy a certain amount of increased speed.
    Other times, comfort, possibily a decrease in injuries (less
    pounding/shock), or better reliability. It is simple but
    true, I think, that each person calculates starting with
    different priorities and resources.
     
  16. Onemarathon

    Onemarathon Guest

    In article
    <[email protected]>,
    Harold Buck <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > mrs dalloway <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Then what is your definition of the average age grouper?
    > > A person who has no will or drive to get to the podium
    > > in any race at all, therefore they are fine with
    > > whatever equipment is at hand?
    >
    > No, a person who knows that, realistically, given their
    > talent and available time to train they will not be on the
    > podium unless a large number of faster competitors befall
    > some misfortune.

    Agreed. I'm new to tri, having done just a couple last year,
    and have no intention of spending much on the sport just
    yet. put some aeros on my mtn/road bike and stripped it down
    to the essentials to keep it light, and put lighter tires
    on. it LOOKS like a racer to the uneducated, and i just go
    along with their praises, but inside i know it's a piece of
    junk that'll just do the job and get me through the race.

    i just keep working on the four disciplines... which include
    the transition, and i found in my races that i was as fast
    as, or faster than, some of the other average folks with big
    money bikes... mainly because i had worked hard on my
    physical conditioning and strategies in training.

    i know i won't reach the podium... given my level of ability
    and available time to train... and that's fine. i really
    enjoy the sport and am happy just finishing the race by
    doing my best. maybe i won't see any medals in the sport,
    but i get satisfaction out of it by simply working hard and
    smart at it. when some "fun" money presents itself, sure, i
    may get a slightly fancier bike, but i'll never shell out
    for one of those multi-thousand dollar tri bikes.

    Cam
     
  17. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    onemarathon <[email protected]> wrote:

    > i know i won't reach the podium... given my level of
    > ability and available time to train... and that's fine. i
    > really enjoy the sport and am happy just finishing the
    > race by doing my best. maybe i won't see any medals in the
    > sport, but i get satisfaction out of it by simply working
    > hard and smart at it.

    I'm very happy with my one medal, which was for finishing my
    first Ironman. That one means more to me than any of the
    medals I got in other sports by beating people. But, like
    you, I'm in no danger of winning a medal, but I still love
    and enjoy this sport!

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Th-
    en it was every other day. . . ."
    - Homer J. Simpson
     
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