Swiss Army Knives now banned by Metropolitan Police London



"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Malcolm Knight. wrote:
>
> > For a real insight into the Met police I recommend a read of the
> > recent publication 'Untouchables; Dirty Cops, Bent Justice and Racism
> > in Scotland Yard'. If you think that beating up the occasional lawyer
> > is as bad as it gets then you are in for a serious re-education.
> > Burglary, robbery, drug dealing and murder is more their style. All
> > the culprits duly named including the current top brass.

>
> Apparently the Met. dibbles seconded to their brethren Oop North during

the
> miners' strike were known as "bananas".
>
> The derivation of this nickname is left as an Exercise for the Reader.


Bent and yellow? If you read the book you will see that the Met are not
above crapping on their northern colleagues too.
--
Malcolm
 
Arthur Clune wrote:
> Taking every 25th vehicle exactly should give you a random sample of the
> vehicles on the road.


<pedant>

Only if the vehicles are randomly spaced. There might be harmonics of
the 25th vehicle with such effects as traffic light timings and duty
cycles, synchronised sequences of traffic lights, (notional :) bus
frequencies, road layout, etc, all of which might serve to bunch similar
types of vehicle (or driver) together.

R.
 
FF <[email protected]> writes:

>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:46:03 +0000, JLB <[email protected]> wrote:


>>I agreed with everything else in your post, but I was curious about this
>>Swiss army knife that locks. Every Swiss army knife I've every owned or
>>examined clicks into its open position, but is not locked; a fairly
>>small torque on the blade by itself will drive it shut again.
>>
>>However, turns out my knowledge was lacking:
>>
>>http://www.swissarmy.com/manuals/14542_Lockblade_manual.pdf


>Mine doesn't. I've got it here and it really doesn't lock. I bought it
>in Holland, maybe they sell the locking ones in the US?


There are some models that lock the main blade. They're uncommonly
stocked, but I bought one in the UK. They unlock with a sliding
button. They're maybe 25% bigger. There are several models, names like
Huntsman, Trailmaster, Picknicker, Rucksack.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
 
In message <BDD229DE.4367%[email protected]>, David Martin
<[email protected]> writes
>On 30/11/04 1:39 pm, in article [email protected], "JLB"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It's not that difficult. Instead of stopping every 25th car, which would
>> be regular, they stop one car taken at random out of every batch of 25;
>> or some similar method.

>
>And why is that more random than performing a regular sampling of a random
>stream of cars?


It isn't. It is less random.
This problem happened in a recent census (around 81 I think) where a
supplementary form was given out, supposedly to every tenth house. It
was quite intentional that the random effect was to be achieved by this
exact procedure. It didn't work: analysis showed that this random
sample was bias and investigation put it down to the enumerators not
having been strict about the one-in-ten. Nothing as sinister as the
'he's black' suggestion: more like: "He's deaf and gaga - I'll use next
door instead".

--
Michael Farthing
Aardvark Ltd
 
MSeries <[email protected]> writes:

>Danny Colyer wrote:
>> MSeries wrote:
>>
>>> I kept wondering what it had to do with cycling, then I noticed the
>>> x-posting. I wonder why the OP thinks cyclists might be interested
>>> specifically. Does he think we carry knives ?


>> Many cycling-specific multi-tools include knives with locking blades,
>> and very useful they are too.


>and folk carry these around with them whilst cycling ? I don't think I
>have ever been en velo and thought "I wish I had a knife with me".


But a surprising number of folk do just that, as anyone who *does*
happen to have one they can lend out discovers. In fact, if you're
known as a knife carrier, it's wise to carry two, so as not to appear
patronising and impolite by refusing to lend someone a knife they'd
likely spoil the edge of by cutting a finger off.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
 
Chris Malcolm wrote:

> There are some models that lock the main blade. They're uncommonly
> stocked, but I bought one in the UK. They unlock with a sliding
> button. They're maybe 25% bigger. There are several models, names like
> Huntsman, Trailmaster, Picknicker, Rucksack.


I have one on which the main blade is "unlocked" by pressing down a catch
next to where the blade lives in its folded state. It has a picture of a
tent on the side, is a Several of years old and may well have originated in
Germany. OTOH, I've got another one which /did/ originate in Germany, with
no catch.

Not that it matters, coz the catch doesn't work very well at all.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)
 
In message <[email protected]>, Richard
<[email protected]> writes
>Arthur Clune wrote:
>> Taking every 25th vehicle exactly should give you a random sample of the
>> vehicles on the road.

>
><pedant>
>
>Only if the vehicles are randomly spaced. There might be harmonics of
>the 25th vehicle with such effects as traffic light timings and duty
>cycles, synchronised sequences of traffic lights, (notional :) bus
>frequencies, road layout, etc, all of which might serve to bunch
>similar types of vehicle (or driver) together.


Which matters not at all as a 25 car rule still sorts this problem.
Were there an environment factor that spaced similar cars at exactly 5
car intervals (or indeed any factor or multiple of 25) then, of course,
your analysis is correct.

--
Michael Farthing
Aardvark Ltd
 
In uk.rec.cycling Michael Farthing <[email protected]> wrote:
: Were there an environment factor that spaced similar cars at exactly 5
: car intervals (or indeed any factor or multiple of 25) then, of course,
: your analysis is correct.

True. Really a prime number would be better.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness
 
Michael Farthing wrote:
>>> Taking every 25th vehicle exactly should give you a random sample of the
>>> vehicles on the road.


>> Only if the vehicles are randomly spaced. There might be harmonics of
>> the 25th vehicle with such effects as traffic light timings and duty
>> cycles, synchronised sequences of traffic lights, (notional :) bus
>> frequencies, road layout, etc, all of which might serve to bunch
>> similar types of vehicle (or driver) together.

>
>
> Which matters not at all as a 25 car rule still sorts this problem. Were
> there an environment factor that spaced similar cars at exactly 5 car
> intervals (or indeed any factor or multiple of 25) then, of course, your
> analysis is correct.


Er...that was my point - all of the environmental factors I mentioned
could space similar cars at regular intervals.

It doesn't have to be a factor or multiple of 25, either. Any
regularly occurring periodicity is going to bugger up the "random"
nature of the sampling - eg if vehicle type "A" was guaranteed to turn
up every 24 vehicles and vehicle type "B" every 10 vehicles, you're
going to stop one "A" for every 600 vehicles passing and one "B" for
every 50 vehicles passing, suggesting (erroneously) that [A]: is 12:1
rather than 2.4:1.

R.
 
Terry said:
> The sailing version of the Swiss knife has a locking blade. In fact many of
> the sailing knives are like this. It is considered a safety feature.
>
> Julia


I am amazed that locking is illegal, I would certainly regard it as a
safety feature.
TerryJ

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sniper replies:

You wouldn't if you were facing the sharp end of it!
The reason locking knives are illegal is they are capable of being used far more offensively than a folding pocketknife.
There are many examples of wrongly held beliefs in this thread. Most refer to what is and is not an offensive weapon.

An offensive weapon is:


"any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use by him or by some other person."

The relevant statute states:

"Any person who without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, the proof whereof shall lie on him, has with him in any public place any offensive weapon shall be guilty of an offence.

Thus any thing can be an offensive weapon dependant on the intent of the person in control of the article at the time.

Some items are classed as offensive weapons by statute. Among those so listed are Lock Knifes and Telescopic Batons.

If the original post is to be believed then the person described had committed two offences by having those articles with him in a public place. A vehicle is a public place for the purpose of this act unless it is a dwelling IE a motor home.

I think however there is some cause to doubt that the described event actually took place. There are errors in the procedure and execution of the search and station procedure as described which I find difficult to reconcile. Other things I find hard to believe are the references to his going down for six months. Yes it's possible but highly unlikely that one would go to prison for such an offence, I can't believe that any officer would put forward such a possibility if he had any time in service.
The writer makes many references to standard procedures as if they are designed to reflect on him personally in an attempt to degrade him as a person. Such procedures are not uncommon and can be gleaned from many TV shows.
The time scale for the whole event is very short. According to the writer he was stopped at 11:30am and by 12:20pm was resting in his cell. Having booked in numerous prisoners, rubbish, it would be a miracle if a complete search, transportation, and station procedure could be completed in such a short time especially if the Sergeant had to arrange a solicitor to call for the detained person.
The reactions to this persons alleged needles are somewhat extreme. Whilst I concede that some officers are less than prudent on the street, I do not for one second think that any officer would react to these very minor and farcical attempts to raise the hackles. Frankly the quips stated are so low on the scale they wouldn't even raise an eyebrow.
The writer then goes on to attack the terrorism act, the government CPSO's and the police whilst stating we are subject to harsher repressive laws than were in force during WW2.
I think there is more going on here than someone complaining about mistreatment, it smacks of a political statement wrapped up in the form of righteous indignation.

Sniper Ends

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:17:59 -0000, "Tim S Kemp"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> I think you can use anything except dogs ..

>
>Tigers?


Nah, too slow. Cheetah's are the way forward.

James
 
In article <[email protected]>, Chris Malcolm wrote:
>
> There are some models that lock the main blade. They're uncommonly
> stocked, but I bought one in the UK. They unlock with a sliding
> button. They're maybe 25% bigger. There are several models, names like
> Huntsman, Trailmaster, Picknicker, Rucksack.
>


Don't know about the others but the Huntsman doesn't have a locking
blade. I know 'cos I've got one of the black ones.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.
 
On 30/11/04 5:12 pm, in article
[email protected], "Sniper8052"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> An offensive weapon is:
>
>
> "any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person,
> or intended by the person having it with him for such use by him or by
> some other person."
>
> The relevant statute states:
>
> "Any person who without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, the
> proof whereof shall lie on him, has with him in any public place any
> offensive weapon shall be guilty of an offence.
>
> Thus any thing can be an offensive weapon dependant on the intent of
> the person in control of the article at the time.
>
> Some items are classed as offensive weapons by statute. Among those so
> listed are Lock Knifes and Telescopic Batons.


A knife with a locking blade is different to a knife with a fixed blade how?

When I was involved with assisting in leading a scout troop in a different
country, they had to pass a qualification before being allowed to bring a
knife on camp. If they did bring a knife, they had to have it packed in
their rucksack when not using it, not on their belt. This was purely to
avoid the 'macho' image of having a knife.

Having read what you have posted, you can have anything on you as long as it
is intended to not be used for harming (or threatening to harm) a person.
From a surgical scalpel to an 18" machete, a felling axe or a two handled
scythe. (OK, I don't have the machete but I do have a scythe. I haven't been
known to walk down the street with it at night 'for my own protection' as
that really would be taking the ****)

I find it hard to believe that a swiss army knife in a brief case could be
construed as an offensive weapon. The club could, clearly.

Imagine the scenario. "excuse me please, could you stop hitting me and let
go of my arm so I can open my brief case and open my swiss army knife to
defend myself"

Doesn't wash.

Approaching someone with an open knife however...
And I am glad my kitchen is not a public place. All the cooking knives there
(which are kept appropriately sharp) would have the hand-wringers in
kittens.

...d
 
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:05:35 +0100, Ewoud Dronkert
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Yes, the Swiss navy is a branch of their army. And Switzerland won the
>America's Cup.


I may well be wrong so I stand by to be corrected. A long, long time
ago, I'm sure I was told that the phrase "tell it to the marines" is a
contraction of "tell it to the Swiss marines".

James
 
Michael Farthing wrote:
> In message <BDD229DE.4367%[email protected]>, David Martin
> <[email protected]> writes
>
>> On 30/11/04 1:39 pm, in article [email protected],
>> "JLB"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> It's not that difficult. Instead of stopping every 25th car, which would
>>> be regular, they stop one car taken at random out of every batch of 25;
>>> or some similar method.

>>
>>
>> And why is that more random than performing a regular sampling of a
>> random
>> stream of cars?

>
>
> It isn't. It is less random.
> This problem happened in a recent census (around 81 I think) where a
> supplementary form was given out, supposedly to every tenth house. It
> was quite intentional that the random effect was to be achieved by this
> exact procedure. It didn't work: analysis showed that this random
> sample was bias and investigation put it down to the enumerators not
> having been strict about the one-in-ten. Nothing as sinister as the
> 'he's black' suggestion: more like: "He's deaf and gaga - I'll use next
> door instead".
>

But that is not comparable or equivalent to "stop one car taken at
random out of every batch of 25", which remains a random sample. What
you are decribing is the introduction of a selection criterion, so of
course the house sample was not random.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap
 
In message <[email protected]>, Nick Pedley
<[email protected]> writes
>
>"Steve Brassett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > The guy was charged with posession of an offensive weapon not
>> > because he had
>> > a Swiss army knife, but because he had a collapible baton, which is
>> > specifically outlawed these days, and has no other purpose than
>> > hitting
>> > people with - fair enough ?

>>
>> There was also a comment that his knife had a locking blade,
>> which my Swiss Army knife doesn't. Would this make it illegal?
>>

>My limited research (based on reading the relevant legislation online and
>chats with Police officers) says that open-locking blades on knives are not
>illegal.


Yes they are. Established law
Harris v Director of Public Prosecutions
Fehmi v Director of Public Prosecutions


>Blades that pop out from the handle using a spring when a button is
>pressed are illegal.


That's true

>There is a limit on blade lengths


Folding pocket knives with a blade of no more than three inches.
> and IIRC for some
>knives over a certain length (12 inches?) you need to provide a good reason
>for buying such a blade, i.e. a machete which will be used in the jungle.


No mention in any law I know of, of Pangas Machetes sickles scythes etc

>
>Of course, you do need to be able to explain why you are carrying a knife
>wherever you go. I blame it on all the awkward packaging on sandwich
>wrappers etc.
>
>Nick
>
>


--
Keeper
 
"David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:54:59 -0000 someone who may be "half_pint"
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
> >exactly, so button you lip, take thier **** and move on.
> >you are on a hiding to nothing with the police.

>
> Giving in to bullies just makes them worse.


There is a difference between giving in and getting your head
kicked in.

>
>
> --
> David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
> I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
> prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.
 
"David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:44:06 -0000 someone who may be "half_pint"
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
> >YOu have to tip your hat when you are dealing with the police

>
> That just reinforces their behaviour.


You make you complaint in the appropiate manner,
mirroring their behaviour will get you nowhere.

>
>
> --
> David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
> I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
> prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.