Swiss Army Knives now banned by Metropolitan Police London

[Dave Kahn]

[email protected] (Terry) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> I am amazed that locking is illegal, I would certainly regard it as a
> safety feature.

Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 prohibits the carrying of
a knife in a public place except for a folding knife the cutting edge
of whose blade does not exceed 3 inches. In the case of Harris v. DPP
1993 it was held that a lock knife is not a folding knife for the
purposes of section 139. In R. v. Deegan 1998 it was confirmed that a
knife which could be folded but which when opened locked in position
was a bladed article within the meaning of the Act and did not fall
within the exemption since it was not readily foldable at all times
without first having to release a catch.

There are, however, 2 specific defences within the Act. The first is
being able to show that you have good reason or lawful authority to
carry the knife in a public place. The second is being able to prove
that the knife is carried for work, for religious reasons or as part
of national costume. So carrying a sgian dubh tucked into your sock is
probably legal as long you you are also wearing a kilt.

IANAL

--
Dave...

 

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:26:07 +0000 someone who may be David Martin
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>Having read what you have posted, you can have anything on you as long as it
>is intended to not be used for harming (or threatening to harm) a person.

That's not quite what he said, as he added "Some items are classed
as offensive weapons by statute."

>And I am glad my kitchen is not a public place. All the cooking knives there
>(which are kept appropriately sharp) would have the hand-wringers in
>kittens.

I was in the sandwich shop yesterday. On the wall is a magnetic rack
with eleven knives. While a few are relatively small many are rather
large and undoubtedly useful to have in a sandwich shop.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Sniper8052]

On 30/11/04 5:12 pm, in article
[email protected], "Sniper8052"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> An offensive weapon is:
>
>
> "any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person,
> or intended by the person having it with him for such use by him or by
> some other person."
>
> The relevant statute states:
>
> "Any person who without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, the
> proof whereof shall lie on him, has with him in any public place any
> offensive weapon shall be guilty of an offence.
>
> Thus any thing can be an offensive weapon dependant on the intent of
> the person in control of the article at the time.
>
> Some items are classed as offensive weapons by statute. Among those so
> listed are Lock Knifes and Telescopic Batons.

A knife with a locking blade is different to a knife with a fixed blade how?

When I was involved with assisting in leading a scout troop in a different
country, they had to pass a qualification before being allowed to bring a
knife on camp. If they did bring a knife, they had to have it packed in
their rucksack when not using it, not on their belt. This was purely to
avoid the 'macho' image of having a knife.

Having read what you have posted, you can have anything on you as long as it
is intended to not be used for harming (or threatening to harm) a person.
From a surgical scalpel to an 18" machete, a felling axe or a two handled
scythe. (OK, I don't have the machete but I do have a scythe. I haven't been
known to walk down the street with it at night 'for my own protection' as
that really would be taking the ****)

I find it hard to believe that a swiss army knife in a brief case could be
construed as an offensive weapon. The club could, clearly.

Imagine the scenario. "excuse me please, could you stop hitting me and let
go of my arm so I can open my brief case and open my swiss army knife to
defend myself"

Doesn't wash.

Approaching someone with an open knife however...
And I am glad my kitchen is not a public place. All the cooking knives there
(which are kept appropriately sharp) would have the hand-wringers in
kittens.

...d

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sniper replies:

No I have said that anything can be an offensive weapon if it is intended for use as a weapon by the person having it either by themselves or another.
I than said that telescopic batons and lock knives were listed amongst others as being offensive weapons by statute. IE It's a weapon because the law says so.
The point is that when a blade is locked there is no difference between it and a fixed blade. That is the point.
When it comes to the point of accessibility that is one of the things which causes me concern in the conduct of the search. For the knife to be an offensive weapon it would need to be readily available. Some have stated that the case was locked, this is not shown in the text, thus the knife would be readily available to the person.
Consider the senario., Driver is cut up by another, decides to teach other a lesson, takes knife and baton from case and approaches other at traffic lights, then attacks other knocking him to the ground with the baton before slashing his face or stabbing him. So not as far from being an offensive weapon as you suggest.
A scythe whilst possibly not being an offensive weapon would be a bladed atricle, it's an offence to have a sharply pointed or bladed atricle in a public place aswell. The differance is that no intent is required.

Sniper8052

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[half_pint]

"Call me Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:54:59 -0000, "half_pint"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> I don't fancy the chances of *anyone* trying to have a policemen
> >> prosecuted for *any reason*.
> >
> >exactly, so button you lip, take thier **** and move on.
> >you are on a hiding to nothing with the police.
>
> Well, if that's how you want to deal with this sort of thing, fair
> enough, it's your choice I guess. I choose a different approach.
>
> Would that be your advice to the unfortunate families whose tragic
> losses have again been in the papers recently? The families of the man
> gunned down in the street for carrying a table leg, and the mentally
> ill fella killed while in the care and custody of the police?
>
> "Button your lip, take the ****, and move on"?

My advice would not be to go down to the station and call the police
wankers,
take your complain to your solicitors and let them deal with it.
>
>
> --
>
> Call me "Bob"
>
>
> "More oneness, less categories,
> Open hearts, no strategies"
>
>
> Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

 

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:59:02 -0000 someone who may be "half_pint"
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>> >YOu have to tip your hat when you are dealing with the police
>>
>> That just reinforces their behaviour.
>
>You make you complaint in the appropiate manner,

A manner I consider appropriate.

>mirroring their behaviour will get you nowhere.

Who said anything about mirroring their behaviour?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Andy Howell]

On 29/11/04 8:26 pm, in article [email protected], "Richard"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Not always true. I flew back into Stanstead once and it was just fine.

Obviously not recently! All knifes need to be well packed in your rucksack
and in the luggage hold, along with fuel bottles, etc.

There is no problem carrying a Swiss Army Knife in the normal way of things.
But try something nasty and it will be interpreted as a dangerous weapon.

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

 

[AndyP]

"James Hodson" <[email protected]> wrote

> >> I think you can use anything except dogs ..
> >
> >Tigers?
>
> Nah, too slow. Cheetah's are the way forward.

Yeh, but cheetahs are lazy and have got no stamina. It's mongooses ya want.
Hard bastards, mongooses when they team up and they'll go all day on a
packet of pork scratchings.

 

[Ian Smith]

On Wed, 1 Dec, Sniper8052 <> wrote:
>
> it's an offence to have a sharply pointed or bladed
> atricle in a public place aswell.

Like a pencil? QED.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

 

[Sniper8052]

On Wed, 1 Dec, Sniper8052 <> wrote:
>
> it's an offence to have a sharply pointed or bladed
> atricle in a public place aswell.

Like a pencil? QED.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sniper replies:

Well not in the case of a sharply pointed or bladed article. But it could be an offensive weapon depending on your intent.



Sniper8052

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Simon S]

The story is made up.

"Bill_Pertwee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The Spectator - Issue: 27 November 2004
>
> New Labour's police state Nicky Samengo-Turner
>
> http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=5308
>
> On Wednesday 3 November I was driving along the
> Embankment towards the City when a police constable
> stepped out into the road and flagged me down. It was
> 11.30 in the morning, and I was in reasonable time for
> a meeting with some corporate lawyers which was due to
> start at midday.
>
> The constable was accompanied by another policeman and
> a group of three men in what looked a little like
> traffic wardens' uniforms, with pale blue bands round
> their caps. These, I later discovered, were Mr
> Blunkett's new militia, the police community support
> officers. Their task, according to Sir John Stevens,
> is to 'perform the vital role of security patrols in
> central London, deterring criminals and providing
> intelligence to police officers'.
>
> 'We are conducting random stop and search under
> current anti-terrorist legislation,' began the
> constable, addressing me through my open side window.
> 'Would you mind if we searched your vehicle? We're
> training these new community support officers.'
>
> Although a little worried about being late for my
> meeting, I was impressed by their air of
> professionalism and vigilance. I was pleased that the
> government was doing something to keep us all safe and
> thought it would be selfish to refuse. 'I don't mind
> at all,' I replied, 'as long as it doesn't take a huge
> amount of time.'
>
> I unlocked the doors and they went through my car and
> its contents: my overnight bag, my wash bag and glove
> box. Next, they gestured towards my briefcase and
> asked if I could open it. Of course, I said, and as I
> lifted the lid I pointed out to them a Victorinox
> Swiss multi-tool, contained in a small webbing case,
> and a small collapsible baton, contained in another
> piece of webbing.
>
> It is perfectly legal to buy both of these items. The
> penknife I carry because I find it useful for many
> small everyday tasks -cutting through packaging,
> opening bottles. The baton I bought over the Internet
> to keep at home for security reasons. I live in a
> rural part of Suffolk that, although thankfully
> relatively crime-free, is policed very sparsely. I
> often hear people outside the house at night - that
> same Wednesday evening, for instance, my wife
> discovered a harmless but mentally ill tramp yelling
> loudly in a nearby barn - and I feel more comfortable
> with the baton inside the front door. A week or so
> before my police search, I had discovered my nine- and
> twelve-year-old girls playing with it and had locked
> it in my briefcase for safekeeping.
>
> The community support officers reacted immediately.
> They behaved as if they had never seen a penknife
> before, pulling out the bottle-opener, the corkscrew,
> the thing that gets stones out of horses' hooves.
> 'This device has a locking blade,' said the constable,
> after which a short, whispered debate ensued. My
> goodwill towards the police began to give way to
> alarm. I reached for my mobile to call the lawyers and
> explain that I was going to be late for my meeting,
> but the constable stopped me. 'Turn that phone off,'
> he said. 'You're about to be arrested for possessing
> offensive weapons and carrying a bladed instrument in
> public. You'll be allowed one call when we get you to
> Charing Cross police station.'
>
> I felt confused and indignant. As we stood by the side
> of the road, waiting for a police van to arrive, I
> asked the constable whether this whole business was,
> in his opinion, a valuable use of police time and
> resources. This was when the policemen and the PCSOs
> started to become hostile. 'You've committed an
> offence, mate, and you'd better get used to the fact
> that you're going down for six months,' said one
> policeman.
>
> 'Do you realise, sir,' said another, 'that behind us
> is the Ministry of Defence, a key target for potential
> terrorists?'
>
> 'But why did you stop me in the first place: do I
> seriously look like a potential terrorist?' I asked.
>
> 'We stop one in every 25 cars on a random basis, and,
> let me tell you, sir, criminals and terrorists come in
> many different guises,' replied the policeman.
>
> 'Shouldn't you be concentrating on men of Arab
> extraction?' This seemed to me to be a sensible
> question, relevant to the current state of the world.
> The policeman said, 'That is a racist comment, sir.'
> Then the van appeared. I was locked in the back and
> ferried to Charing Cross. As we drove there, the
> policemen made small talk. They told me that they
> would be out for a pint tonight, whereas I was going
> to prison. They wondered what it would feel like for
> me not to be sleeping in my own bed.
>
> Upon arrival at Charing Cross, I was subjected to the
> as-seen-on-TV rigmarole of being booked in by the desk
> sergeant. Most of the questions focused on my racial
> origin and HIV status. They asked if I had a craving
> for non-prescription drugs, and if I required any
> religious paraphernalia. My belt and personal effects
> were removed, and after a statutory telephone call to
> my lawyer I was 'banged up'.
>
> By this time it was about 12.20 and I spent the next
> three hours dozing on a wooden bench. At about 4.30
> p.m., my solicitor had arrived and it was time for an
> 'interview under caution'. First, I had to be
> fingerprinted. The police constable who had originally
> flagged me down reappeared, and began the arduous
> business of 'processing' me. The man's lack of
> competence was comical. He had problems applying my
> fingers to what appeared to be a sophisticated and
> expensive fingerprint-scanning machine, and with each
> failed attempt he became angrier and angrier. Tired
> and fed up, I gave in to the temptation to needle him.
> 'Having problems with your new toy?' I asked. He
> replied, 'Shut the **** up, you ********.'
>
> He was no better at operating the tape recorder used
> for my interview. Much fumbling of cassettes was
> followed by screeching noises from the equipment.
> During the interview itself, I found him inarticulate,
> incompetent and only tenuously in control of his
> temper.
>
> After the interview, I was re-introduced to my cell. I
> understood from my solicitor that the same police
> constable would speak to the Crown Prosecution
> Service, and a decision would be made about whether to
> charge me formally. I was also told that if the
> policeman had wanted to, he could have let me off with
> a caution after my car had been searched and the
> penknife and baton discovered.
>
> Sitting in my cell, I thought a bit about the way I
> had been treated. For the police to be behaving like
> this at a time when we are all concerned about
> terrorism and street crime, and when resources are
> stretched and manpower is limited, seemed
> extraordinary. It was also, I decided, in direct
> contrast to the qualities of professionalism,
> endurance and discipline that are the hallmark of
> Britain's armed forces. I have (now long outdated)
> personal experience of two training establishments,
> the old Guards' Depot at Pirbright and the Royal
> Military Academy at Sandhurst, both of which are
> successful in creating tough but professional men who
> are in control of their actions and able to make
> sensible decisions under pressure. Whether on the
> streets of Belfast, in the mountains of Bosnia or in
> the deserts of Iraq, lieutenants and second
> lieutenants as young as 19 and 20 provide the linchpin
> between senior officers and rank-and-file men on the
> ground.
>
> And this, I suspect, is the problem with the police -
> they have no proper training and no officer corps. The
> old adage goes 'there is no such thing as bad
> soldiers, only bad officers'. The scruffy, overweight,
> badly turned-out, ill-mannered policemen I encountered
> at Charing Cross police station were desperately in
> need of decent leadership.
>
> So I was not surprised when I was brought back before
> the desk sergeant and told that the CPS had made the
> decision to go ahead and charge me with possessing an
> offensive weapon and carrying a bladed instrument in
> public. I was bailed to appear at Bow Street
> magistrates' court and informed that I was free to
>leave.
>
> As I was about to pass through the door to freedom, I
> am ashamed to say that I snapped. The knowledge that
> we could, so easily, have avoided the whole drawn-out,
> expensive and upsetting procedure was too much for me.
> I turned to the police constable and said, 'You really
> are a prize ******.' At this point, and in full view
> of my solicitor, he lost it. He grabbed my lapels, and
> pushed me up against the wall. My solicitor yelled,
> 'You have just assaulted my client!'
>
> Four other police officers rushed into the corridor,
> accompanied by the desk sergeant. 'Right, rearrest
> him: public order, breach of the peace,' shouted the
> sergeant at me. 'You'll be spending the night here.'
> My solicitor said that she wanted the assault entered
> in the daybook, and that we would be bringing an
> action. So they let me go.
>
> In the aftermath of my experience, I started some
> purely anecdotal research on the type of behaviour and
> attitude displayed by the police towards me. In
> speaking to friends, acquaintances, tradesmen, cab
> drivers and people in the pub I rapidly came to
> realise that a quite staggering number of ordinary,
> law-abiding people had endured similar experiences.
>
> It is worth remembering how new these powers are. It
> is only since the Terrorism Act of 2000 that the new
> community support officers, in the company of a
> constable, have been allowed to stop and search a car;
> and that is by no means all they can do. After a mere
> three weeks' training, a CSO can give you a £30 fixed
> penalty ticket for such minor derelictions as riding
> your bike on a pavement, or dropping a crisps packet.
> He or she may take away your booze if you are drinking
> in public, or confiscate the fags of an underage
> smoker. These CSOs may detain you by force for 30
> minutes, pending the arrival of a police officer, if
> they think you may be guilty of an arrestable offence.
> And who can doubt that they will soon be able to
> demand the production of an ID card, and detain you if
> you fail to produce it?
>
> And on it goes. Last week Parliament passed the new
> Civil Contingencies Act, which gives the government
> astonishing powers to declare and prolong a state of
> emergency sine die. This week Her Majesty announced in
> the Gracious Address that there is to be a new
> Counter-Terrorism Bill, and among its provisions are
> rumoured to be judge-only Diplock courts for terrorist
> suspects.
>
> Such measures are surely only justified in a society
> at war, and they might be acceptable if we were truly
> a nation under siege. But that is not how it feels to
> most of us. We have a terrorist threat to London and
> elsewhere, a chronic and worrying problem; but that
> does not amount to a war, any more than the IRA
> bombing campaigns of the 1970s did, and yet we are
> enacting measures more repressive than those applied
> in the Blitz.
>
> By the way, once I had been sprung from the police
> station, I walked back to the Embankment, where my car
> had been left since the arrest. It was, by this time,
> 6.45 in the evening and, sure enough, there on my
> windscreen was a Metropolitan Police parking ticket.
> One further thing - I have just found out from my
> solicitor that the copy of the interview tape sent to
> us by the police is entirely blank.
>
> Nicky Samengo-Turner, formerly an investment banker,
> now works in the Formula 1 motor-racing industry. The
> Metropolitan Police said, 'This matter is currently
> sub judice and as such it would be inappropriate for
> us to comment on any of the information in the
> article.'

 

[Eiron]

Simon S wrote:

> The story is made up.

It was also in the Daily Telegraph so it must be true.

>>and a small collapsible baton, contained in another
>>piece of webbing.

That is an offensive weapon. He should have bought a big Maglite
for self-defence.

--
Eiron.

 

[terry jones]

> a Swiss army knife, but because he had a collapible baton, which is
> specifically outlawed these days, and has no other purpose than hitting
> people with - fair enough ?

Crazy to have a weapon which has no other purpose in your house or car or
pocket.
Even police carry a big maglite (with a wrist strap) or something else that
would have some other obvious use.
Solvent spray or box of pepper and a small maglight or biro eg.

I think I would feel less safe with a weapon that a potential attacker might
be more experienced at using than I am.
Tj

 

[JohnB]

Simon S wrote:
>
> The story is made up.

You are the station sargeant, AICMFP

John B

 

[Ian Smith]

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Sniper8052 <> wrote:
>
> Ian Smith Wrote:
> > On Wed, 1 Dec, Sniper8052 <> wrote:
> > >
> > > it's an offence to have a sharply pointed or bladed
> > > atricle in a public place aswell.
> >
> > Like a pencil? QED.
>
> Sniper replies:
>
> Well not in the case of a sharply pointed or bladed article.

I have plenty of sharply pointed pencils, and I frequently carry some
of them in an unlocked bag in a public place. The fact that this
makes me a dangerous violent criminal committing an offence is merely
proof of the increasingly totalitarian state in which I live.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

 

[Julie Meikle]

Oh yeah?
"Bill_Pertwee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The Spectator - Issue: 27 November 2004
>
> New Labour's police state Nicky Samengo-Turner
>
> http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=5308
>
> On Wednesday 3 November I was driving along the
> Embankment towards the City when a police constable
> stepped out into the road and flagged me down. It was
> 11.30 in the morning, and I was in reasonable time for
> a meeting with some corporate lawyers which was due to
> start at midday.
>
> The constable was accompanied by another policeman and
> a group of three men in what looked a little like
> traffic wardens' uniforms, with pale blue bands round
> their caps. These, I later discovered, were Mr
> Blunkett's new militia, the police community support
> officers. Their task, according to Sir John Stevens,
> is to 'perform the vital role of security patrols in
> central London, deterring criminals and providing
> intelligence to police officers'.
>
> 'We are conducting random stop and search under
> current anti-terrorist legislation,' began the
> constable, addressing me through my open side window.
> 'Would you mind if we searched your vehicle? We're
> training these new community support officers.'
>
> Although a little worried about being late for my
> meeting, I was impressed by their air of
> professionalism and vigilance. I was pleased that the
> government was doing something to keep us all safe and
> thought it would be selfish to refuse. 'I don't mind
> at all,' I replied, 'as long as it doesn't take a huge
> amount of time.'
>
> I unlocked the doors and they went through my car and
> its contents: my overnight bag, my wash bag and glove
> box. Next, they gestured towards my briefcase and
> asked if I could open it. Of course, I said, and as I
> lifted the lid I pointed out to them a Victorinox
> Swiss multi-tool, contained in a small webbing case,
> and a small collapsible baton, contained in another
> piece of webbing.
>
> It is perfectly legal to buy both of these items. The
> penknife I carry because I find it useful for many
> small everyday tasks -cutting through packaging,
> opening bottles. The baton I bought over the Internet
> to keep at home for security reasons. I live in a
> rural part of Suffolk that, although thankfully
> relatively crime-free, is policed very sparsely. I
> often hear people outside the house at night - that
> same Wednesday evening, for instance, my wife
> discovered a harmless but mentally ill tramp yelling
> loudly in a nearby barn - and I feel more comfortable
> with the baton inside the front door. A week or so
> before my police search, I had discovered my nine- and
> twelve-year-old girls playing with it and had locked
> it in my briefcase for safekeeping.
>
> The community support officers reacted immediately.
> They behaved as if they had never seen a penknife
> before, pulling out the bottle-opener, the corkscrew,
> the thing that gets stones out of horses' hooves.
> 'This device has a locking blade,' said the constable,
> after which a short, whispered debate ensued. My
> goodwill towards the police began to give way to
> alarm. I reached for my mobile to call the lawyers and
> explain that I was going to be late for my meeting,
> but the constable stopped me. 'Turn that phone off,'
> he said. 'You're about to be arrested for possessing
> offensive weapons and carrying a bladed instrument in
> public. You'll be allowed one call when we get you to
> Charing Cross police station.'
>
> I felt confused and indignant. As we stood by the side
> of the road, waiting for a police van to arrive, I
> asked the constable whether this whole business was,
> in his opinion, a valuable use of police time and
> resources. This was when the policemen and the PCSOs
> started to become hostile. 'You've committed an
> offence, mate, and you'd better get used to the fact
> that you're going down for six months,' said one
> policeman.
>
> 'Do you realise, sir,' said another, 'that behind us
> is the Ministry of Defence, a key target for potential
> terrorists?'
>
> 'But why did you stop me in the first place: do I
> seriously look like a potential terrorist?' I asked.
>
> 'We stop one in every 25 cars on a random basis, and,
> let me tell you, sir, criminals and terrorists come in
> many different guises,' replied the policeman.
>
> 'Shouldn't you be concentrating on men of Arab
> extraction?' This seemed to me to be a sensible
> question, relevant to the current state of the world.
> The policeman said, 'That is a racist comment, sir.'
> Then the van appeared. I was locked in the back and
> ferried to Charing Cross. As we drove there, the
> policemen made small talk. They told me that they
> would be out for a pint tonight, whereas I was going
> to prison. They wondered what it would feel like for
> me not to be sleeping in my own bed.
>
> Upon arrival at Charing Cross, I was subjected to the
> as-seen-on-TV rigmarole of being booked in by the desk
> sergeant. Most of the questions focused on my racial
> origin and HIV status. They asked if I had a craving
> for non-prescription drugs, and if I required any
> religious paraphernalia. My belt and personal effects
> were removed, and after a statutory telephone call to
> my lawyer I was 'banged up'.
>
> By this time it was about 12.20 and I spent the next
> three hours dozing on a wooden bench. At about 4.30
> p.m., my solicitor had arrived and it was time for an
> 'interview under caution'. First, I had to be
> fingerprinted. The police constable who had originally
> flagged me down reappeared, and began the arduous
> business of 'processing' me. The man's lack of
> competence was comical. He had problems applying my
> fingers to what appeared to be a sophisticated and
> expensive fingerprint-scanning machine, and with each
> failed attempt he became angrier and angrier. Tired
> and fed up, I gave in to the temptation to needle him.
> 'Having problems with your new toy?' I asked. He
> replied, 'Shut the **** up, you ********.'
>
> He was no better at operating the tape recorder used
> for my interview. Much fumbling of cassettes was
> followed by screeching noises from the equipment.
> During the interview itself, I found him inarticulate,
> incompetent and only tenuously in control of his
> temper.
>
> After the interview, I was re-introduced to my cell. I
> understood from my solicitor that the same police
> constable would speak to the Crown Prosecution
> Service, and a decision would be made about whether to
> charge me formally. I was also told that if the
> policeman had wanted to, he could have let me off with
> a caution after my car had been searched and the
> penknife and baton discovered.
>
> Sitting in my cell, I thought a bit about the way I
> had been treated. For the police to be behaving like
> this at a time when we are all concerned about
> terrorism and street crime, and when resources are
> stretched and manpower is limited, seemed
> extraordinary. It was also, I decided, in direct
> contrast to the qualities of professionalism,
> endurance and discipline that are the hallmark of
> Britain's armed forces. I have (now long outdated)
> personal experience of two training establishments,
> the old Guards' Depot at Pirbright and the Royal
> Military Academy at Sandhurst, both of which are
> successful in creating tough but professional men who
> are in control of their actions and able to make
> sensible decisions under pressure. Whether on the
> streets of Belfast, in the mountains of Bosnia or in
> the deserts of Iraq, lieutenants and second
> lieutenants as young as 19 and 20 provide the linchpin
> between senior officers and rank-and-file men on the
> ground.
>
> And this, I suspect, is the problem with the police -
> they have no proper training and no officer corps. The
> old adage goes 'there is no such thing as bad
> soldiers, only bad officers'. The scruffy, overweight,
> badly turned-out, ill-mannered policemen I encountered
> at Charing Cross police station were desperately in
> need of decent leadership.
>
> So I was not surprised when I was brought back before
> the desk sergeant and told that the CPS had made the
> decision to go ahead and charge me with possessing an
> offensive weapon and carrying a bladed instrument in
> public. I was bailed to appear at Bow Street
> magistrates' court and informed that I was free to
>leave.
>
> As I was about to pass through the door to freedom, I
> am ashamed to say that I snapped. The knowledge that
> we could, so easily, have avoided the whole drawn-out,
> expensive and upsetting procedure was too much for me.
> I turned to the police constable and said, 'You really
> are a prize ******.' At this point, and in full view
> of my solicitor, he lost it. He grabbed my lapels, and
> pushed me up against the wall. My solicitor yelled,
> 'You have just assaulted my client!'
>
> Four other police officers rushed into the corridor,
> accompanied by the desk sergeant. 'Right, rearrest
> him: public order, breach of the peace,' shouted the
> sergeant at me. 'You'll be spending the night here.'
> My solicitor said that she wanted the assault entered
> in the daybook, and that we would be bringing an
> action. So they let me go.
>
> In the aftermath of my experience, I started some
> purely anecdotal research on the type of behaviour and
> attitude displayed by the police towards me. In
> speaking to friends, acquaintances, tradesmen, cab
> drivers and people in the pub I rapidly came to
> realise that a quite staggering number of ordinary,
> law-abiding people had endured similar experiences.
>
> It is worth remembering how new these powers are. It
> is only since the Terrorism Act of 2000 that the new
> community support officers, in the company of a
> constable, have been allowed to stop and search a car;
> and that is by no means all they can do. After a mere
> three weeks' training, a CSO can give you a £30 fixed
> penalty ticket for such minor derelictions as riding
> your bike on a pavement, or dropping a crisps packet.
> He or she may take away your booze if you are drinking
> in public, or confiscate the fags of an underage
> smoker. These CSOs may detain you by force for 30
> minutes, pending the arrival of a police officer, if
> they think you may be guilty of an arrestable offence.
> And who can doubt that they will soon be able to
> demand the production of an ID card, and detain you if
> you fail to produce it?
>
> And on it goes. Last week Parliament passed the new
> Civil Contingencies Act, which gives the government
> astonishing powers to declare and prolong a state of
> emergency sine die. This week Her Majesty announced in
> the Gracious Address that there is to be a new
> Counter-Terrorism Bill, and among its provisions are
> rumoured to be judge-only Diplock courts for terrorist
> suspects.
>
> Such measures are surely only justified in a society
> at war, and they might be acceptable if we were truly
> a nation under siege. But that is not how it feels to
> most of us. We have a terrorist threat to London and
> elsewhere, a chronic and worrying problem; but that
> does not amount to a war, any more than the IRA
> bombing campaigns of the 1970s did, and yet we are
> enacting measures more repressive than those applied
> in the Blitz.
>
> By the way, once I had been sprung from the police
> station, I walked back to the Embankment, where my car
> had been left since the arrest. It was, by this time,
> 6.45 in the evening and, sure enough, there on my
> windscreen was a Metropolitan Police parking ticket.
> One further thing - I have just found out from my
> solicitor that the copy of the interview tape sent to
> us by the police is entirely blank.
>
> Nicky Samengo-Turner, formerly an investment banker,
> now works in the Formula 1 motor-racing industry. The
> Metropolitan Police said, 'This matter is currently
> sub judice and as such it would be inappropriate for
> us to comment on any of the information in the
> article.'

 

[Sniper8052]

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Sniper8052 <> wrote:
>
> Ian Smith Wrote:
> > On Wed, 1 Dec, Sniper8052 <> wrote:
> > >
> > > it's an offence to have a sharply pointed or bladed
> > > atricle in a public place aswell.
> >
> > Like a pencil? QED.
>
> Sniper replies:
>
> Well not in the case of a sharply pointed or bladed article.

I have plenty of sharply pointed pencils, and I frequently carry some
of them in an unlocked bag in a public place. The fact that this
makes me a dangerous violent criminal committing an offence is merely
proof of the increasingly totalitarian state in which I live.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

________________________________________________________________________________________________
Sniper:

Sorry I thought you were being funny. You'r scaring me now.

Here is chapter and verse.

Criminal Justice Act 1988

Articles with blades or points and offensive weapons

Offence of having article with blade or point in public place.

139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
(a) for use at work;
(b) for religious reasons; or
(c) as part of any national costume.
(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section "public place" includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

Sniper8052
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

[Paul Cummings]

"The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Following up to John Goldfine
>
> >When it became impossible to carry a knife through airport security with
my
> >bags, I began buying cheap knives in the UK for my walking trips and
leaving
> >them behind as part of my chambermaid's tip my last night in London.
>
> Just put your expensive knife in hold baggage, along with ice
> axes and anything else that can be used as a weapon.

Then the sods at Gatwick airport lose the sodding suitcase. Don't ask me
how I know that.

Grrrrrrrrrr.

Never take a decent piece of kit abroad unless you can keep it with you at
all times.

And don't start me on travel insurance - they wouldn't pay out for my Swiss
Army Survival set because "there was no proof I owned it and no good reason
for me to be taking one on holiday anyway". I pointed out that I was a
walker - hence the walking boots they had already coughed up for and that it
was a 30th Birthday present from my wife. We were on my 40th Birthday
surprise holiday, so it was slightly unlikely I was going to have the
receipt. Photos? No, I don't usually like having my photo taken at the
best of times and certainly not whilst using a knife, so no I do not have
any photos of the set. I do of the replacement one I had to buy though.
There's a good tip for all travellers - photograph every expensive bit of
kit - it could be very useful when the thieving bastards (I mean insurance
company, but it amounts to the same thing) refuses to pay up.

Have fun,
Paul

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
Sniper8052 ('[email protected]') wrote:

> A scythe whilst possibly not being an offensive weapon would be a
> bladed atricle, it's an offence to have a sharply pointed or bladed
> atricle in a public place aswell.  The differance is that no intent is
> required.

OK, this is beginning to bother me. When I'm doing coppice maintenance
and other forestry jobs, I have an enormous collection of fairly lethal
bladed instruments with me. Usually at least one billhook (40cm forged
blade sharp enough to shave with, and weighing about 2Kg), one slasher
(lighter than a billhook but with a handle about a metre long), one
hatchet and one felling axe, and probably more than one locking pocket
knife.

I use the billhook so regularly that it usually sits loose in the pocket
of the rear door of the truck, or strapped to the back of my rucksack.
I have a locking pocket knife in my pocket virtually all the time.

Is this really, really illegal? If so, how are people who do things like
coppicing supposed to do their jobs?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

A message from our sponsor: This site is now in free fall

 

[Dave Kahn]

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:42:04 +0000, Paul Robson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Yeah, I live not far from where he does and the local police force is
>nonexistent. I've got a cricket bat signed by Graham Gooch and others
>hanging up in my hall, it's not entirely for display.

For beating intruders insensible it's hard to beat nunchaku, provided
you've got enough skill with them not to lay yourself out first.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

 

[Chris Malcolm]

Simon Barr <[email protected]> writes:

>In article <[email protected]>, Chris Malcolm wrote:
>>
>> There are some models that lock the main blade. They're uncommonly
>> stocked, but I bought one in the UK. They unlock with a sliding
>> button. They're maybe 25% bigger. There are several models, names like
>> Huntsman, Trailmaster, Picknicker, Rucksack.

>Don't know about the others but the Huntsman doesn't have a locking
>blade. I know 'cos I've got one of the black ones.

Sorry, it's actually called the Hunter. See the full list of 15
locking Swiss Army Knives at

http://www.swisstool.co.uk/index.html
--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]