Switching out Campy rear derailleurs and Cassettes-



Nick-NH

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I'm expecting a bike shortly that'll come with Campy Record. The rear setup will have a short cage derailleur with a 12-25 cassette. I'm thinking of picking up a medium cage derailleur with a 13-29 for some hillclimb races. Can I save a few bucks here and get the Chorus versions or are there specific issues that may come up with my shifters and chain? Many Thanks
 

boudreaux

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Oct 16, 2003
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Originally posted by Nick-NH
I'm expecting a bike shortly that'll come with Campy Record. The rear setup will have a short cage derailleur with a 12-25 cassette. I'm thinking of picking up a medium cage derailleur with a 13-29 for some hillclimb races. Can I save a few bucks here and get the Chorus versions or are there specific issues that may come up with my shifters and chain? Many Thanks
Chorus works.Why not just get the medium to start with and save some money,as well as time in switching them out? FWIW, the short works with a 29 in almost all applications, but a short derailer hanger can cause problems with it.
 

dennis dee

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Apr 24, 2004
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Originally posted by boudreaux
FWIW, the short works with a 29 in almost all applications, but a short derailer hanger can cause problems with it.

Stick to what u know boudr coz this is a lot of hooey (LOL). Don't blame the hanger. Campy does not recommend the short cage on cogsets with a combination bigger than a 26.

If you must stick to your 'speculations' then be my guess. But say goodbye to your rear mech after a few rides. Remember, you were for-warned!:eek:
 

fushman

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Feb 13, 2004
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Originally posted by dennis dee
Stick to what u know boudr coz this is a lot of hooey (LOL). Don't blame the hanger. Campy does not recommend the short cage on cogsets with a combination bigger than a 26.

If you must stick to your 'speculations' then be my guess. But say goodbye to your rear mech after a few rides. Remember, you were for-warned!:eek:

from reading this forum it seems youre the one always doing the speculating, reading from catalogues instead of relating real experience and knowledge
 

boudreaux

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Oct 16, 2003
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Originally posted by dennis dee
Stick to what u know boudr coz this is a lot of hooey (LOL). Don't blame the hanger. Campy does not recommend the short cage on cogsets with a combination bigger than a 26.

If you must stick to your 'speculations' then be my guess. But say goodbye to your rear mech after a few rides. Remember, you were for-warned!:eek:
I am well aware of the 'campy sez' line, as well as what works in actual practice. I am running a short cage, and it has worked perfectly for more than a few rides. And, hanger length does matter.
 

boudreaux

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Originally posted by fushman
from reading this forum it seems youre the one always doing the speculating, reading from catalogues instead of relating real experience and knowledge
Yeah, that is real easy to do.... As I've said, if you do exactly what campy and shimano say,it won't be wrong. But there are lots of things that work perfectly well when not done 'by the book'. Part of their collective lines is CYA, and another part is to sell more stuff,by convincing folks that that 'by their book' is the only way. The ARs love it and people with no real experience just wallow in it,like Linus with his security blanket.
 

Nick-NH

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Sep 25, 2003
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Here's a question that might be related to all this and it's regarding how you ride. I've always been taught to keep my chain as straight as possible - ie not crossed up - Like going from 53 to 24 (in my current case 24 is the largest cog). In fact, I typically ride half and half - I use cogs 24-17 on the small chain ring and 13-17 on the large. Now this is an old bike, 7 speed Ultegra 600 group, but the concept is the same. Do you typically cross up your chain these days with the new components or is the philosophy still the same as I've described. My new ride is a Six13 with Record (still 3 weeks before delivery) and I want to make sure I'm doing right by my components. So, all this being said, perhaps there's less of an impact on the short cage rear detrailleur with a 13-29 if you're always only using the smaller chainring with those big cogs?
 

boudreaux

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Originally posted by Nick-NH
Here's a question that might be related to all this and it's regarding how you ride. I've always been taught to keep my chain as straight as possible - ie not crossed up - Like going from 53 to 24 (in my current case 24 is the largest cog). In fact, I typically ride half and half - I use cogs 24-17 on the small chain ring and 13-17 on the large. Now this is an old bike, 7 speed Ultegra 600 group, but the concept is the same. Do you typically cross up your chain these days with the new components or is the philosophy still the same as I've described. My new ride is a Six13 with Record (still 3 weeks before delivery) and I want to make sure I'm doing right by my components. So, all this being said, perhaps there's less of an impact on the short cage rear detrailleur with a 13-29 if you're always only using the smaller chainring with those big cogs?
You still don't cross chain. The adverse effects can be even more even more dramatic due to wider cogsets and more extreme chain angles. Since you shouldn't be in the big/big anyway the possible issues with the short cage involve the ability to shift the 29 and the ability to run in it with out pulley interference with the big cog. Chain wrap can also be an issue with the short cage,and some chainring//cog combinations....you were being somewhat too conservative with respect to chainring/cog combinations with your old setup,not that it actually hurts anything.
 

Aztec

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The chain-crossing issue is definitely bigger now than in the 5-7 speed days. I routinely rode crossed 'back in the days' and thought nothing of it. Not so, now.
 

tafi

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It is funny that this is mentioned because it is next to impossible to get a smooth transition between one ratio to another without crossing at some stage. Using a 53/39 chainring set up and intially in a gear using the 39, in order to go to the next ratio using the 53 you'd have to go back up to 4 sprockets on the cluster or risk having to grind and losing significant speed in the process.
I have never had a problem crossing occasionally (bike chains are designed to be laterally flexible anyway and I don't think there is a gear where the chain will be straight - a campag 53X11 gear is certainly not!)
I'm not wanting to ruffle feathers but I thought I would contribute my thoughts.

The only solution to minimise this is to select the right CHAINRINGS for the races/rides you do. I have just changed to a 42/52 set up with a 23-11 campag cassette. Ther chainrings are closser together and shift smoothly and quickly and this also means less chopping and changing on the cluster. When it comes to climbing races the 39 will go on and for a flat race/TT a 46/53 will make an appearence.
 

boudreaux

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Originally posted by tafi
Using a 53/39 chainring set up and intially in a gear using the 39, in order to go to the next ratio using the 53 you'd have to go back up to 4 sprockets on the cluster or risk having to grind and losing significant speed in the process.
So why not just go a few sprockets smaller before going to the big ring? Having 9 or 10 to choose from certainly gives more latitude than being stuck with only 7 or less. And you aren't likely stayng cross chained for extended periods,like I see some idiots doing.
 

fushman

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Feb 13, 2004
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Originally posted by tafi
It is funny that this is mentioned because it is next to impossible to get a smooth transition between one ratio to another without crossing at some stage. Using a 53/39 chainring set up and intially in a gear using the 39, in order to go to the next ratio using the 53 you'd have to go back up to 4 sprockets on the cluster or risk having to grind and losing significant speed in the process.
I have never had a problem crossing occasionally (bike chains are designed to be laterally flexible anyway and I don't think there is a gear where the chain will be straight - a campag 53X11 gear is certainly not!)
I'm not wanting to ruffle feathers but I thought I would contribute my thoughts.

The only solution to minimise this is to select the right CHAINRINGS for the races/rides you do. I have just changed to a 42/52 set up with a 23-11 campag cassette. Ther chainrings are closser together and shift smoothly and quickly and this also means less chopping and changing on the cluster. When it comes to climbing races the 39 will go on and for a flat race/TT a 46/53 will make an appearence.

i dont think its that hard really to not cross your chain. if you have an idea what cog youre already riding and realize that youre prolly not gonna wanna climb any kinda real hill in the big chain ring then i think you should be able to change gears up front before youre in a big big type combo.
 

dennis dee

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Apr 24, 2004
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Originally posted by fushman
from reading this forum it seems youre the one always doing the speculating, reading from catalogues instead of relating real experience and knowledge

That's just the problem... consumer seems to know more than what the manufacturer who has spent millions in R&D on their products as well as real world testing via sposorships.

If it works for you, fine. But that's not what the manufacturer intended it to be. Posers need to see it from both sides.

And I speak from not only my experience but other people I know. I use Record - '96 full grouppo, 2001 gruppo and my latest is a combination of 2003/2004. It's an investment buying top-of-the line components and I will stick to what the manufacturer recommend and not experiment. Experiment and "Oh that broke my $220 Record short rear mech when I used the 29, I'll just buy the medium cage next time!"

Experimenting and speculating is 2 sides of the same coin. I'll just stick to the doctor's advice.
 

fushman

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Originally posted by dennis dee
That's just the problem... consumer seems to know more than what the manufacturer who has spent millions in R&D on their products as well as real world testing via sposorships.

If it works for you, fine. But that's not what the manufacturer intended it to be. Posers need to see it from both sides.

And I speak from not only my experience but other people I know. I use Record - '96 full grouppo, 2001 gruppo and my latest is a combination of 2003/2004. It's an investment buying top-of-the line components and I will stick to what the manufacturer recommend and not experiment. Experiment and "Oh that broke my $220 Record short rear mech when I used the 29, I'll just buy the medium cage next time!"

Experimenting and speculating is 2 sides of the same coin. I'll just stick to the doctor's advice.

its your gear so whatever, but youre not really saving money if you go buy a med cage and have a short cage sitting around, may as well risk breaking it no
 

armchair_spacem

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Oct 19, 2003
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Originally posted by Nick-NH
I'm expecting a bike shortly that'll come with Campy Record. The rear setup will have a short cage derailleur with a 12-25 cassette. I'm thinking of picking up a medium cage derailleur with a 13-29 for some hillclimb races. Can I save a few bucks here and get the Chorus versions or are there specific issues that may come up with my shifters and chain? Many Thanks

I went with the medium cage for my '04 chorus because I wanted to play safe using a 13-29 block. I also use a 12-25 on a different wheelset. If the medium cage is "slower" shifting than the short cage I had with my previous groupset I don't notice it. Save yourself the bucks and the hassle and go with one RD. By authoritative accounts (others I know back up boudreaux's experiences) the short cage works with the 13-29 but you have to be real careful not to cross (I confess I'm one of the dumb ones sometimes, particularly in the heat of battle).

A side note in response to a couple of other posts in this thread - why not change chainrings, particularly if you arent weighed down with cash? Surely a selection of chainrings is a cheaper approach to gearing variation than keeping a collection of cassettes?
 

boudreaux

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Oct 16, 2003
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Originally posted by fushman
its your gear so whatever, but youre not really saving money if you go buy a med cage and have a short cage sitting around, may as well risk breaking it no
He just made up that part about saying goodbye to your rear mech after a few rides.
 

boudreaux

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Oct 16, 2003
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Originally posted by dennis dee


If it works for you, fine. But that's not what the manufacturer intended it to be. Posers need to see it from both sides.

I'll just stick to the doctor's advice.
Well, if it works, it works doesn't it despite the corporate lines. It's good to be able to get out of the box. Be glad the Wrights(and other experimenters) didn't listen to all the 'it ain't never gonnaa fly' advice.....
 

Nick-NH

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Sep 25, 2003
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Is there any practical difference in shifting between the '04 Record 10 speed short and medium cage derailleurs?
 

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