......and don't forget the phone calls captured on film of USPS and CSC doing the deal in the 2004 TDF !
T-Mobile strategy
- Thread starter tcklyde
- Start date
rejobako said:"Phone calls captured on film" ?
You guys are hilarious!
Yeah, it is hilarious.
And proven.
But don't just take my word for it.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=1231
It was a masterstroke because there was no way Disco/Armstrong was going to chase through the sprinters teams... it would of been to dangerous.... very smart move..... caught Armstrong napping...... there will be doubt in LA's mind as he will never know when Vino will attack... he can attack anywhere....... even in the rain......
tcklyde said:
Do you guys think that Vino went for it on his own, or was it sanctioned by Godefroot and T-Mobile??whiteboytrash said:
Part of Jan's plan or just part of the plan for securing Vino's own Yellow Jersey hopes?
Sean
I think it was a Vino move sanctioned by T-Mobile and Jan..... its the one two double act..... in the mountains maybe will see an attack by Vino to soften the peleton and Disco and then Jan will go for the knockout punch.......... I'm salivating already !
strummer_fan said:
I think Vino is doing it on his own. Whether sanctioned or not, T-Mobile will not be yelling at him though. They have to be wondering about Jan and Kloden's performance, and given their budget they need to be seen in contention. So they will allow Vino to continue being a 'loose cannon'... everything Jan is not.
I imagine that T-Moblie is encouraged by today's result. But... I wouldn't want to be a DS trying to plan strategy for the upcoming days. It seems that LA's team is much like the wealthiest teams in other sports. They have packed their ranks with a lot of talent from across the board, so it can be hard to win attacks against them.Powerful Pete said:I think Vino is doing it on his own. Whether sanctioned or not, T-Mobile will not be yelling at him though. They have to be wondering about Jan and Kloden's performance, and given their budget they need to be seen in contention. So they will allow Vino to continue being a 'loose cannon'... everything Jan is not.
We will have to wait for the mountains, I guess...
Nope it was attack by himself I guess........he was in front and the sprinters teams were completely exhausted after a hard day pullin back that break.........so he had a go!
Well it turned out to be a very nice attack, but it could have turned out really bad. He won't do this a 2nd time!!!
IF he will attack again in the end of a sprinter stage LA won't follow.........then better lose some seconds instead of the chance that he crashes and that his TDF is over.....
It's all about who wants to take the biggest risks...........
Well it turned out to be a very nice attack, but it could have turned out really bad. He won't do this a 2nd time!!!
IF he will attack again in the end of a sprinter stage LA won't follow.........then better lose some seconds instead of the chance that he crashes and that his TDF is over.....
It's all about who wants to take the biggest risks...........
strummer_fan said:
read it and weep it was a T-Mobile move.......
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=1371
Those Disco boys better think of some new ways to counter T-mobile... surly they can’t use the same tired formula as the last 487 years ?
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=1371
Those Disco boys better think of some new ways to counter T-mobile... surly they can’t use the same tired formula as the last 487 years ?
MJtje said:
Just another michael moore piece............limerickman said:
MODERATOR ROLE
ZAPPER KEEP THE POLITICAL STUFF CONFINED TO THE SOAPBOX PLEASE : THESE THREADS ARE BEING CONTRIBUTED TO BY FANS WHO ARE DISCUSSING THE SPORT AND NOT POLITICS.
MICHAEL MOORE THEORIES ARE NOT PART OF THE SPORT.
Limerickman.
Jep I read it.........ooh yes they can use that tiredly formula........it's been effective huh the last 6 years
And btw IF Vino attacks early will Disco really be chasing as the only team or will CSC, Liberty, Rabo help, because he's also attacking there GC men. Think about that one............Vino could be digging his own grave with all those attacks.......
And btw IF Vino attacks early will Disco really be chasing as the only team or will CSC, Liberty, Rabo help, because he's also attacking there GC men. Think about that one............Vino could be digging his own grave with all those attacks.......
whiteboytrash said:
hmmmm not sure..... we all know what Disco do in the mountains.... the team sets a high tempo then Armstrong attacks somewhere between 10-7km to go.... we all know that..... he does not like repeated attacks and they have not trained for this.... they train making Armstrong attack in the final kms...... and no the others will make him chase.... if you look at the photos before the stages have a look at the other riders chatting to Ulle and Vino.... remember LA wont be around next year so there will be no more memories...... make him earn his yellow.... and they will.....
WBT out.
WBT out.
MJtje said:Jep I read it.........ooh yes they can use that tiredly formula........it's been effective huh the last 6 years
And btw IF Vino attacks early will Disco really be chasing as the only team or will CSC, Liberty, Rabo help, because he's also attacking there GC men. Think about that one............Vino could be digging his own grave with all those attacks.......
I suspect that VINO will attack first and that Ulle will wait and watch how the rest reacts and tries to do something at the last climb. Vino possibly going allready on a climb earlier.......
Then again.......ulle is not a person who can react to fast changes of rhytm! Haha Vino could also kill Jan on the climbs..............leaving jan for dead behind........ouch interesting days to come!
Then again.......ulle is not a person who can react to fast changes of rhytm! Haha Vino could also kill Jan on the climbs..............leaving jan for dead behind........ouch interesting days to come!
sonicman said:
Riiight. As is usual with this sort of nonsense, the "proof" only exists if you apply a lot of presumptions.limerickman said:
"parts of a telephone conversation can be heard between the American and the Italian, who has shortly before learned about the seriousness of his mother’s cancer. Only Basso’s responses are heard, but at the end Basso tells Armstrong: “In this Tour – if you need something you just ask for it.”
So you only hear Basso talking, with no idea of the context of Armstrong's responses. You can assume, if it pleases you, that Basso's statement quoted above equates to a promise to defer to Armstrong in the GC race -- then again, maybe he was providing a general statement of support. I've often made statements to friends like: "You need anything, just let me know". That doesn't mean I'd give them my first-born if they asked for it.
As for this one:
"Later we see Basso talking to manager Bjarne Riis about a conversation he’s had with Armstrong, in which Armstrong has told Basso to if he stays close to him on Friday he’ll end far up on Saturday. “He wants to decide the Tour on the weekend,” Basso tells Riis."
I suppose this qualifies as at least innuendo, but not much else. Armstrong told a fellow rider that finishing close to him on a couple of mountain stages is a good idea. Good advice, in my opinion. Sounds more like wink-wink bravado than wink-wink conspiracy, but then again, I don't consider it sport to sit around and think of ways to try to diminish Armstrong's considerable achievements.
In other words, L-man, although I respect your opinions on this and many other issues, what your linked article "proves" is that Basso and Armstrong developed a rapport with each other in last years tour, possibly borne of the link between Armstrong's cancer and that of Basso's mother. I can buy the premise that perhaps Basso wasn't as motivated to try to beat Armstrong as he might have another rider, but as for a literal or tacit agreement to sandbag himself, I just don't see it.
rejobako said:
The fact of the matter is that two teams, which are supposed to be competing with each other, were engaged in phone conversations.
As a cycling fan, you'd be aware that when this conversation took place last year, the race was finely poised with Basso and LA contending for first and second place.
Why would first and second place be phoning each other ?
I only replied to your point because you attempted to diminish the point that there was something going on between LA and Basso at the 2004 TDF, by referring to it as being hilarious.
At a minimum, that conversation referred by Procycling shows that they were in cahoots to some degree.
Your point is taken to the extent that you have indeed convinced me that Armstrong and Basso's conversations were more involved than I had been aware, although as to your question of "why would they be talking to each other" -- it was reported by several sources last year that Armstrong, upon learning of Basso's mother's battle with pancreatic cancer, took it upon himself to talk to Basso about referrals to specific physicians, to lend support through his foundation, etc. A cynic would suggest his motivations were self-interested. Perhaps, but it does provide a plausible explanation of why the #1 and #2 GC contenders would be on the telephone, other than to swear a blood oath to each other.limerickman said:
As for my "hilarious" comment, I was simply commenting on your characterization that telephone conversations can be "captured on film". Not unless you have two cameras and a split screen . . . .
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