T-Mobile strategy

[Tejano]

Err, Popovcyh was dropped on stage 8, as was the rest of the Discovery riders.

What version of the TDF are you watching anyhow ?
The alternative version perhaps ?

This TDF is far from over : it's all to play for as I said last week when some of the other wafflers were posting their pearls of wisdom, after stage 1.

This was the first mountain stage last year! The gaps back to LA´s team was bigger this year because there were attacks but the Disco boy continued on at there own pace because there was nothing they could do so far back and it wasn´t a good stage to take out a lot of time!

Two stages later in ´04 LA began his methodical disection of his main contenders! It is errily similiar to this year so far!

"If it ain´t broke don´t fix it!"

You really think the only guy capable of hanging with LA on the first mountain stage this year was Savoldelli? "Bait, line and sinker!" They were all resting!

Tomorrow when Lance yells "all aboard!" we´ll see who follow who´s tracks!


1.Richard Virenque (Fra) en 6h00'24" (moy : 39.456 km/h)
2. Andreas Klöden (All) à 5'19"
3. Erik Zabel (All)
4. Francisco Mancebo (Esp)
5. Thomas Voeckler (Fra)
6. Lance Armstrong (Usa)
7. Georg Totschnig (Aut)
8. Kim Kirchen (Lux)
9. Michele Scarponi (Ita)
10. Pietro Caucchioli (Ita)
11. Iban Mayo (Esp)
12. Michael Rasmussen (Dan)
13. Ivan Basso (Ita)
14. Carlos Sastre (Esp)
15. Jan Ullrich (All)
16. Denis Menchov (Rus)



22. Jose Azevedo (Por) à 5'26"

43. José-Luis Rubiera (Esp)



65. George Hincapie (Usa) à 6'00"
66. Floyd Landis (Usa)



67. Benjamin Noval (Esp) à 6'04"



116. Manuel Beltran (Esp) á 24´24”

121. Vjatcheslav Ekimov (Rus)
124. Pavel Padrnos (Tch)

 

[limerickman]

You really think the only guy capable of hanging with LA on the first mountain stage this year was Savoldelli? "Bait, line and sinker!" They were all resting!

....ah I see.
So Lance gave them all a good talking to after Stage 8 because they were all
resting.
Makes sense, I suppose in your alternative TDF race that you're watching.

Listen, keep us posted about the virtual TDF that you're watching.

The rest of us will continue on discussing the real thing, in the meantime.

 

[whiteboytrash]

...nice return of serve.... leave him for a while whilst he licks his wounds......

....ah I see.
So Lance gave them all a good talking to after Stage 8 because they were all
resting.
Makes sense, I suppose in your alternative TDF race that you're watching.

Listen, keep us posted about the virtual TDF that you're watching.

The rest of us will continue on discussing the real thing, in the meantime.

 

[Tejano]

...nice return of serve.... leave him for a while whilst he licks his wounds......

Tex bluffs to win Coup de Poker at L'Alpe d'Huez



By Tim Maloney
"It was a coup de poker - it was all a bluff to make Telekom work today. It worked perfect for us," joked a happy Lance Armstrong in the post-race press conference, discussing his winning tactics
in a superb ride in today's 209 km Stage 10 of the 2001 Tour De France from Aix-Les-Bains to L'Alpe d'Huez.

Before he launched his race winning attack at the foot of l'Alpe d'Huez, Lance just didn't look at ease as he usually does; he was out of the saddle often and was not riding in his usual position near the front of the group. On the Col du Glandon, USPS team director Johan Bruyneel gave an interview to Thierry Blanco of French TV where he said - "Lance's radio doesn't work - plus the team isn't super today so it's better to have Lance sit back." Not. It was a classic fake-out by Lance and it worked.

Meanwhile up front, the Team Deutsche Telekom men were
hammering like the hounds of hell all day, trying to put the hurt on Lance and the other contenders. In the end, they ended up putting the hurt on themselves

You are all so naive!

We will see tomorrow!

 

[Crankster]

His supposed superhuman efforts in the TT and the mountains are as much a result of his relative freshness as to his cycling ability.

Could you please explain how LA's effort in the first stage ITT "as much a result of his relative freshness" - wasn't everyone equally fresh before the stage?!

 

[Tejano]

Could you please explain how LA's effort in the first stage ITT "as much a result of his relative freshness" - wasn't everyone equally fresh before the stage?!

If LA is fresh then Ullrich is fresh ´cause all he does is sit on LA´s ass all day!

Maybe we should call him the "Ass Man"! That´s for all you Cosmo Kramer lovers out their!

 

[Crankster]

If LA is fresh then Ullrich is fresh ´cause all he does is sit on LA´s ass all day!

Maybe we should call him the "Ass Man"! That´s for all you Cosmo Kramer lovers out their!

Exactly! These excuses from LA haters make me crazy sometimes!

His team had nothing to do with his TT ability. And while his team drags him up the mountain, they also drag up every other shmoe (like Ullrich) so he can instead use his team to attack LA, instead of doing all the work.

All the Disco team does is even things out to prevent crazy 30-minute breakaways to get going from the first 1km. If Ullrich wants higher pace, he can send his team to the front and set it. If he likes the pace just fine, then he is using the Disco boys to drag himself up the mountain (and to protect himself from opportunistic attacks) as much as LA does.

 

[YIMan]

And while his team drags him up the mountain, they also drag up every other shmoe (like Ullrich) so he can instead use his team to attack LA, instead of doing all the work.

Surely Discovery set a high tempo up the climbs so the other teams CAN'T attack...they don't "drag them up" so they can......

It's funny how you criticise the so-called "LA-haters" yet in the next sentence describe Ullrich as a "schmoe"(whatever the **** that is).

 

[Fixey]

That was the perception of some of the German fans! If I understood the Spanish commentary correctly.

That is what Pedro Delgado and his side kick said! They also said that Vino may not feel welcome at T-mobile next year and may leave because of this attitude!

Now if say Mayo attacks LA tomorrow on the first summit would it be correct to say Mayo was attacking Ullrich also? Obviously Vino attacked not only LA but everyone else on the climb including Ullrich. That is just a matter of fact!

Now the intention wasn´t to attack Ullrich but he had to keep the pace or he would have been dropped! Kloden attacked not only LA but Ullrich, Vino, and all the other GC contenders and took 39 seconds was it out of them all!

Ullrich and Vino are his teammates so most people wouldn´t use the term attack but literally that´s what happened! I know Vino´s intention wasn´t to attack Ullrich but you tell me why the German fans are angry?

If I were T-Moble I see two choices!

1. conform to Discoveries game plan and hope that one of your riders is stronger than LA. Not the best choice in my opinion.

2. attack LA on the first Cat one climb tomorrow with Vino or better Kloden. Kloden must go all out on the attack and tank his GC hopes. Make Disco work before the decisive climb or hope like hell some one tries to bridge across to Kloden and the break works making Disco work across the flats before the final climb. You have to separate LA from his team on the last climb as far down as possible. Then let the attacks begin!

3. hope you can attack Disco early on the last climb and drop his entire team! If not I see at least Azevedo neutrilizing most of the attacks and LA comes out on top at the end anyway.

The only way to beat LA is if he has a weak team and he doesn´t! His team will control the mountains just like last year and this Tour is "Game Over Man"!

Problem I

Ok, Please dont take this as a personal attack but.....
Either you have little knowledge of the sport of road cycling or you cant see past some seriously flawed logic.....

To illustrate this I will outline a very basic team strategy....
If you are fighting against a team with a clear leader and you have several capable riders in your team, say 3 for instance, then these riders take turns at attacking. If the opposition leader is ever isolated then it would be stupid not to take advantage of this. Simply one rider attacks untill he is done, either the oposition leader chases him or he does not....if he does, when rider one is spent rider 2 takes up the charge ect and so on. Eventually the oposition will run out of steam!

SOOOOO when Vino attacks a solo LA he is doing just that...attacking LA. I bet the house if LA had chased Kloaden JU would have been next on the attack.

In essence, working as part of a team to soften a rider for the benefit of said team can not, in any way, be seen as attacking aformentioned team! If one of the 3 team mates cracks...so be it, he will work for the 2 that didnt from then on....

Clear?

 

[Tejano]

Explain that to those German fans! They want Ullrich to win not Vino! This is a word game really, if Vino attacks he attacks period! not just some of the riders behind him but all of them! If he drops Ullrich but LA is able to maintain the pace then what! That is the question, does T-mobile have the you know what to sacrifice there poster boy Ullrich so easily?

I don´t think they will and we´ll see same old story! It doesn´t matter if it´s Disco setting a really hard pace or T-mobile attacking in the end it will all be the same, survival of the fittest!

Ok, Please dont take this as a personal attack but.....
Either you have little knowledge of the sport of road cycling or you cant see past some seriously flawed logic.....

To illustrate this I will outline a very basic team strategy....
If you are fighting against a team with a clear leader and you have several capable riders in your team, say 3 for instance, then these riders take turns at attacking. If the opposition leader is ever isolated then it would be stupid not to take advantage of this. Simply one rider attacks untill he is done, either the oposition leader chases him or he does not....if he does, when rider one is spent rider 2 takes up the charge ect and so on. Eventually the oposition will run out of steam!

SOOOOO when Vino attacks a solo LA he is doing just that...attacking LA. I bet the house if LA had chased Kloaden JU would have been next on the attack.

In essence, working as part of a team to soften a rider for the benefit of said team can not, in any way, be seen as attacking aformentioned team! If one of the 3 team mates cracks...so be it, he will work for the 2 that didnt from then on....

Clear?

 

[mitosis]

Could you please explain how LA's effort in the first stage ITT "as much a result of his relative freshness" - wasn't everyone equally fresh before the stage?!

I'm not sure whether you noticed, but LA doesn't race except for Le Tour.

And even in that race he can afford to go all out on an ITT knowing that he will have the protection of a team while he recovers.

And I suppose JU's performance would not have been affected by his accident the day before.

And I don't suppose that its possible that LA would't have planned to go all out in a bid to gain psychological advantage over his more talented rival.

And I suppose he was feining being ****** off after stage 8 because he was left exposed by the riders he bought to race for him. He's not paying them big money not to beat him for nothing. Maybe its because he knows he won't race so well if he has to work as hard as his competition.

Lance has demonstrated enormous talent. But its hard not to question if his success in Le Tour would be as great if he followed the same racing regime as most other riders and did not have the protection of his team.

If I dislike LA's methods it doesn't mean I hate the person. But its typical of immature people to confuse the two.

Maybe if you can't see past the last 6 years of cycling you need to study a little history.

 

[Tejano]

Here´s a riddle!

How many team leaders have raced a lot this season?
How many team leaders are left unprotected?

I´m stupified! The sport has changed get over it buddy! Move on!

I'm not sure whether you noticed, but LA doesn't race except for Le Tour.

And even in that race he can afford to go all out on an ITT knowing that he will have the protection of a team while he recovers.

And I suppose JU's performance would not have been affected by his accident the day before.

And I don't see that LA would't have planned to go all out in a bid to gain psychological advantage over his more talented rival.

I suppose he was feining being ****** off after stage 8 because he was left exposed by the riders he bought to race for him. He's not paying them big money not to beat him for nothing.

Lance has demonstrated enormous talent. But its hard not to question if his success in Le Tour would be as great if he followed the same racing regime as most other riders and did not have the protection of his team.

If I dislike LA's methods it doesn't mean I hate the person. But its typical of immature people to confuse the two.

Maybe if you can't see past the last 6 years of cycling you need to study a little history.

 

[Tejano]

Surely Discovery set a high tempo up the climbs so the other teams CAN'T attack...they don't "drag them up" so they can......

It's funny how you criticise the so-called "LA-haters" yet in the next sentence describe Ullrich as a "schmoe"(whatever the **** that is).

Calling someone a schmoe is not attacking them!

Get a dictionary buddy! It means he isn´t at the same level as LA!

LA 6 T´sDF

JU 1 T´sDF

It´s a fact!

 

[Tejano]

Here is what it comes down too! German fans are lead to believe Ullrich is the team leader! T-mobile has invested in JU´s image! Ullrich is the team leader despite what he, Vino, and Kloden say! They don´t make the decisions!

Vino and Kloden are supposed to work for Ullrich in the minds of many Germans! I think Vino is stronger than Jan. So the question is does T-mobile have the will to sacrifice Jan for Vino to TRY and beat LA? My response is no!

Many German fans thought Vino was attacking Jan! Because he is the team leader!

Ok, Please dont take this as a personal attack but.....
Either you have little knowledge of the sport of road cycling or you cant see past some seriously flawed logic.....

To illustrate this I will outline a very basic team strategy....
If you are fighting against a team with a clear leader and you have several capable riders in your team, say 3 for instance, then these riders take turns at attacking. If the opposition leader is ever isolated then it would be stupid not to take advantage of this. Simply one rider attacks untill he is done, either the oposition leader chases him or he does not....if he does, when rider one is spent rider 2 takes up the charge ect and so on. Eventually the oposition will run out of steam!

SOOOOO when Vino attacks a solo LA he is doing just that...attacking LA. I bet the house if LA had chased Kloaden JU would have been next on the attack.

In essence, working as part of a team to soften a rider for the benefit of said team can not, in any way, be seen as attacking aformentioned team! If one of the 3 team mates cracks...so be it, he will work for the 2 that didnt from then on....

Clear?

 

[YIMan]

Calling someone a schmoe is not attacking them!

Get a dictionary buddy! It means he isn´t at the same level as LA!

schmo or schmoe also shmo
n. Slang pl. schmoes, also shmoes
A stupid or obnoxious person.


I got one......who is the schmoe now?

 

[mitosis]

Here´s a riddle!

How many team leaders have raced a lot this season?
How many team leaders are left unprotected?

I´m stupified! The sport has changed get over it buddy! Move on!

You've had common sense thrust at you from people with more knowledge and understanding of racing than me and you still chose to ignore it.

You have taken it upon yourself to be a Lance defender, discarding all logic for the cause. I hope you find a Lance hater soon so you can experience the banality of your style of debate.

Here's your riddle. What do you call someone who is paranoid on behalf of someone else?

 

[Tejano]

schmo or schmoe also shmo
n. Slang pl. schmoes, also shmoes
A stupid or obnoxious person.


I got one......who is the schmoe now?

Broaden your vision a little!

Look up *** and tell me what it means!

 

[YIMan]

Broaden your vision a little!

Look up *** and tell me what it means!

Lance must be so proud of fans like you....

 

[Crankster]

You've had common sense thrust at you from people with more knowledge and understanding of racing than me and you still chose to ignore it.

You have taken it upon yourself to be a Lance defender, discarding all logic for the cause. I hope you find a Lance hater soon so you can experience the banality of your style of debate.

Here's your riddle. What do you call someone who is paranoid on behalf of someone else?

Except you are the one escaping the logic. He makes a good point - how many spring races did Ullrich or Landis or Leipheimer or Basso or Heras or Mayo or Valverde or "insert GC name here" win? You seem to be blinded by Lance hatred so much you can't see holes in your own arguments.

Everyone who thinks he has a shot at TdF crown had equal opportunity to be fully fresh for first ITT. If they didn't they only have themselves to blame. All team leaders have 8 guys to shield them from winds in case they get in yellow. And if not, they will be shielded by Disco guys, even better.

Instead of resorting to name calling as you like to do, deal with the points raised here. Namecalling implies you admit that you lost the argument and have no other resort than insult people...

Why is your pompousness and arrogance so annoying?!

 

[Tejano]

Lance must be so proud of fans like you....

*** has more than one meaning! And the difference in Britain or the States is huge! Schmoe has more than one meaning! Buy a better dictionary! Schmoe is not an insult in the context it was used!

Tours OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Can you say SEVEN?????????????????