Taco test?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Johns, Jun 20, 2003.

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  1. Johns

    Johns Guest

    My understanding (from reading the book) is that the taco test only works for "standard" (box? 420
    gram?) rims with 32 or more spokes. What if you're building with 24? Or a "deep" rim that weighs
    500+ grams?
     
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  2. Waxxer

    Waxxer Guest

    Uh, the best or worst rider can taco any wheel. The measures you describe are meaningless if
    everything is a variable. Please provide more data.

    "JohnS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > My understanding (from reading the book) is that the taco test only works for "standard" (box? 420
    > gram?) rims with 32 or more spokes. What if you're building with 24? Or a "deep" rim that weighs
    > 500+ grams?
     
  3. waxxer wrote:
    > Uh, the best or worst rider can taco any wheel. The measures you describe are meaningless if
    > everything is a variable. Please provide more data.
    >
    >

    I think he means the taco test to check if spoke tensions are good when building the wheel..?
     
  4. On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:43:23 +0000, waxxer wrote:

    > Uh, the best or worst rider can taco any wheel. The measures you describe are meaningless if
    > everything is a variable. Please provide more data.

    You miss his point. The point was that a test of whether or not you had tightened the spokes too
    much was if, upon stress-relieving, the wheel taco'd. It is not a question of tacos that occur
    during riding, all caused by crashes I would hope. Any wheel that spontaneously tacos on a ride
    should have been tested out first.

    > "JohnS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> My understanding (from reading the book) is that the taco test only works for "standard" (box?
    >> 420 gram?) rims with 32 or more spokes. What if you're building with 24? Or a "deep" rim that
    >> weighs 500+ grams?

    What this is addressing is that the popular heavy, deep-V rims with very few spokes ought to be able
    to tolerate a lot more tension. OTOH, they need a lot more tension, since they have so few spokes.
    My presumption is that this would balance out, and you would use the same test to see whether or not
    the wheel was too tight.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand _`\(,_ | mathematics. (_)/ (_) |
     
  5. Waxxer

    Waxxer Guest

    Gotcha! thanks for the clarification! "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:43:23 +0000, waxxer wrote:
    >
    > > Uh, the best or worst rider can taco any wheel. The measures you
    describe
    > > are meaningless if everything is a variable. Please provide more data.
    >
    > You miss his point. The point was that a test of whether or not you had tightened the spokes too
    > much was if, upon stress-relieving, the wheel taco'd. It is not a question of tacos that occur
    > during riding, all caused by crashes I would hope. Any wheel that spontaneously tacos on a ride
    > should have been tested out first.
    >
    > > "JohnS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >> My understanding (from reading the book) is that the taco test only works for "standard" (box?
    > >> 420 gram?) rims with 32 or more spokes. What if you're building with 24? Or a "deep" rim that
    > >> weighs 500+ grams?
    >
    > What this is addressing is that the popular heavy, deep-V rims with very few spokes ought to be
    > able to tolerate a lot more tension. OTOH, they need a lot more tension, since they have so few
    > spokes. My presumption is that this would balance out, and you would use the same test to see
    > whether or not the wheel was too tight.
    >
    > --
    >
    > David L. Johnson
    >
    > __o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand _`\(,_ | mathematics. (_)/ (_) |
     
  6. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    John S? writes surreptitiously:

    > My understanding (from reading the book) is that the taco test only works for "standard" (box? 420
    > gram?) rims with 32 or more spokes. What if you're building with 24? Or a "deep" rim that weighs
    > 500+ grams?

    You mean the max tension test I assume. Deep section, low spoke-count wheels usually need and have
    such great bridging strength between spokes that their cross section exceeds any compressive load
    the spoke complement can achieve. Therefore, when building with such rims, you'll need a tensiometer
    to know when tension is reasonably high.

    Having half as many spokes, they usually need twice the spoke tension or more. That's why most of
    these wheels use large cross section spokes that hide their size by being flattened, purportedly for
    aerodynamic reasons. This flatness makes tensioning more difficult for their lack of torsional
    stiffness.

    Why do we do this to ourselves at great expense? I know. To set the World Hour Record! What else?
    The fewest of these users are racers in contention for any award.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  7. <[email protected]> wrote in message ...

    >> Why do we do this to ourselves at great expense? I know. To set the
    > World Hour Record! What else? The fewest of these users are racers in contention for any award.

    As usual I don't know what you're trying to say, but I must add, I really look good riding the
    Visco-Elastic Constrained Layer Zipp 404s.

    People get checked out on group rides, and I'll tell you something, there's no way you would want
    to show up for one of my events riding something lame like box section 32 conventional spoked
    Mavic MA3 rims.
     
  8. On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:38:59 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >People get checked out on group rides, and I'll tell you something, there's no way you would want
    >to show up for one of my events riding something lame like box section 32 conventional spoked Mavic
    >MA3 rims.

    Yeah, cause whether you win or lose is much less important than how you look doing it.

    Jasper
     
  9. On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:38:59 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >People get checked out on group rides, and I'll tell you something, there's no way you would want
    >to show up for one of my events riding something lame like box section 32 conventional spoked Mavic
    >MA3 rims.

    By the way, how about halfradial and cros foot spoke patterns on otherwise ordinary wheels?

    Jasper
     
  10. TNEWSOME1

    TNEWSOME1 Guest

    I seriously doubt that Jobst really cares about how his bike looks on group rides because I surely
    don't. I show up all the time with MA2's, SuperChampion mod. 58's, and even the old 27" Mavic Module
    "E" when I'm feeling "retro".

    "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message ...
    >
    > >> Why do we do this to ourselves at great expense? I know. To set the
    > > World Hour Record! What else? The fewest of these users are racers in contention for any award.
    >
    > As usual I don't know what you're trying to say, but I must add, I really look good riding the
    > Visco-Elastic Constrained Layer Zipp 404s.
    >
    > People get checked out on group rides, and I'll tell you something, there's no way you would want
    > to show up for one of my events riding something lame like box section 32 conventional spoked
    > Mavic MA3 rims.
     
  11. In article <[email protected]>, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:38:59 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >People get checked out on group rides, and I'll tell you something, there's no way you would want
    > >to show up for one of my events riding something lame like box section 32 conventional spoked
    > >Mavic MA3 rims.
    >
    > Yeah, cause whether you win or lose is much less important than how you look doing it.

    Given my racing performances, I sure hope so.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  12. "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message ...
    >
    > >> Why do we do this to ourselves at great expense? I know. To set the
    > > World Hour Record! What else? The fewest of these users are racers in contention for any award.
    >
    > As usual I don't know what you're trying to say, but I must add, I really look good riding the
    > Visco-Elastic Constrained Layer Zipp 404s.

    Preach on, sistah!

    Who cares if you're slow as balls? As long as you look good on a bike, everyone will respect you.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  13. On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:03:02 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"Jasper Janssen" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
    >> By the way, how about halfradial and cros foot spoke patterns on otherwise ordinary wheels?
    >
    >Do you really think you have the right stuff to show up for one of my group rides?

    Dude, I'm not on the wrong continent, let alone the right country, and I

    Jasper
     
  14. In article <[email protected]>, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:rcousine->
    > > Given my racing performances, I sure hope so.
    >
    > How was it out there last Tuesday evening?

    The bad news was I got dropped on the "climb" after a couple of credible laps riding near the front
    of the pack. The good news is that meant I missed out on the crash that took out the back half of
    the Novice peloton a few laps later. I spent the rest of the race towing a really young junior down
    the hill and getting pulled up the hill by him. Then he beat me by a rim in the finishing sprint!

    I didn't stay around to watch much of the subsequent races. Next week I'm going to do an early break
    off the front and make those hill-climbing jerks catch me.

    I think you ride for a team with tasteful burgundy and white jerseys. Am I right?

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  15. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:10:47 -0700, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> from WAC Bennett Review of Arts
    and Literature wrote:

    >I think you ride for a team with tasteful burgundy and white jerseys. Am I right?

    Do they have pictures of dinosaurs on them?

    --
    http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace It's the RINSE CYCLE!! They've ALL IGNORED
    the RINSE CYCLE!!
    11:29:46 PM 21 June 2003
     
  16. "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote in message
    >
    > Do they have pictures of dinosaurs on them?
    >
    I know what jersey you're referring to, this season the 'Saurus' graphic has been greatly reduced in
    size compared to last season's jersey and a natural spring water company logo takes the prime spot
    on the jersey.

    But that's just some amateur team of old guys, forget those lamers.
     
  17. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:43:29 GMT, <[email protected]>, A partially
    fossilised, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote in message
    >>
    >> Do they have pictures of dinosaurs on them?
    >>
    >I know what jersey you're referring to, this season the 'Saurus' graphic has been greatly reduced
    >in size compared to last season's jersey and a natural spring water company logo takes the prime
    >spot on the jersey.
    >
    >But that's just some amateur team of old guys, forget those lamers.
    >
    Fab, even old amateurs get lots of action when they go totally reptilian. You'd be surprised how
    curiously the tourist babes react when they take your for one of those alien lizard shape-shifters!

    Honestly, I thought the 'Saurus' graphic was cool but a bit too tame.

    Get yourself into full veloraptor gear and keep those lamers off your wheel with a 5' tail.

    http://www.monkeywrenchcafe.org/cm/pic/foto/dino/bike_lane_suspect.jpg
    --
    zk
     
  18. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:45:36 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> from Balsa Pacific Aero Ltd.
    Engineering & Bicycle Mongery wrote:

    >Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:43:29 GMT, <[email protected]>, A partially
    >fossilised, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote in message
    >>>
    >>> Do they have pictures of dinosaurs on them?
    >>>
    >>I know what jersey you're referring to, this season the 'Saurus' graphic has been greatly reduced
    >>in size compared to last season's jersey and a natural spring water company logo takes the prime
    >>spot on the jersey.
    >>
    >>But that's just some amateur team of old guys, forget those lamers.
    >>
    >Fab, even old amateurs get lots of action when they go totally reptilian. You'd be surprised how
    >curiously the tourist babes react when they take your for one of those alien lizard shape-shifters!
    >
    >Honestly, I thought the 'Saurus' graphic was cool but a bit too tame.
    >
    >Get yourself into full veloraptor gear and keep those lamers off your wheel with a 5' tail.
    >
    >http://www.monkeywrenchcafe.org/cm/pic/foto/dino/bike_lane_suspect.jpg

    I have good news for you people: I am in the preliminary planning stages for a visit to Vancouver to
    scout out the lay of the land for eventual emigration and immigration, depending on where you are.
    Bike riding will be high on my list of things to do. In fact, it will be no. 1. My wife wants
    seafood. I think we'll both be happy.

    --
    http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace HUGH BEAUMONT died in 1982!!
    1:14:14 AM 23 June 2003
     
  19. "Kevan Smith" <[email protected]/\/\> wrote in message
    >Bike riding will be high on my list of things to do. In fact, it will be no. 1

    Just make sure you hook up with the proper group. Even Vancouver has it's share of recreational /
    commuter types and other kooks. Don't join a large club as these groups always seem to let the wrong
    types in. It's best to form your own elite team and then you have total control on who starts the
    ride and who goes home.

    There are only two real bike shops in Vancouver, the other shops are the kind that sell stuff that
    Zoot would be interested in. You want to only go in bike shops that have all the bare road frames
    hanging from the ceiling and don't welcome customers like Zoot's type.
     
  20. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:14:34 -0500, <[email protected]>, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]/\/\> wrote:

    >
    >I have good news for you people: I am in the preliminary planning stages for a visit to Vancouver
    >to scout out the lay of the land for eventual emigration and immigration, depending on where you
    >are. Bike riding will be high on my list of things to do. In fact, it will be no. 1. My wife wants
    >seafood. I think we'll both be happy.

    If the IOC decides to foist their circus on us for 2010, I'm going to Victoria. Check out that town
    too. Beat the rush.

    Lemme know when you're coming and I'll have a dino ready in your size.
    --
    zk
     
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