Take that Schuey and Lance!



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"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >From: [email protected] (Marlene Blanshay)
>
> >LOL, I agree, you have to love the guy- anyone who does a time trial wearing a tiger striped skin
> >suit deserves our applause. He has a point. Let's face it, schumacher drives a car! As for lance,
> >it's true he has a pretty short season. I personally respect the tough f*cks who go from feb to
> >october!
> >
>
> Is there any doubt that Museeuw is the tougest SOB riding a bike anywhere. Mario may be a stud,
> but Museeuw is the MAN.

Yeah but he sucks at Grand Tours.
>
> Bill C.
 
"BILL TritonRider CROW." <[email protected]@mb-cf.aol.com...
> >From: "Ken Papai" ken.com
>
> >Yeah but he sucks at Grand Tours.
>
> I don't think we'll ever see another rider really excell at the Classics
and
> Grand Tours. The mindset has to be so different. With riders now really specializing it would be
> almost impossible. I don't think Museeuw has the patience for Tours, he's a warrior, not a
> general. I also don't think that his body recovers quickly enough. I think
he
> could win stages if he wanted to. Early on he had a TDF stage, and 2 Tour
de
> Suisse stages.

Besides LANCE, I respect and admire Museeuw more than anyone. He's as tough and gritty and strong
(and smart) as they come.

> He'd need to be on form then though, and I'm not sure how he handles
heat.
>
> Bill C.

Is it P.C. to make fun of AOLers and WebTVers?? (maybe if you think of them as a triple is to a race
bike, unless you're climbing the Angliru?)
 
Cippo is great - a fantastic team leader and supurb sprinter. he's a character and the sport needs
folks like him. but he's no race car driver. I have no idea if he can drive a street car very well,
but Schumi is amazing. (yes, its 1/2 car, but that driver 1/2 is more important- e.g., F3000 racing)
-I once had a similar conversation with a sportscar-mad friend of mine who told me about Schumi's
training = 2-3+ hrs a day! he lifts wegihts and does aerobic work too.. I bet he'd ride a bike
better than Cippo would drive F1.

Lance is a great racer- seems like there is no one better for stage races. he's a hero and has
worked hard to get there. I admire that. But while he does race well in a few one-dayers, he's no
musseew or Bartoli.

Bartoli is god. big comeback story - winner of many great races - very classy and tough character.
he's had some epic battles and whether he wins or loses, he gives it his all.

just my 2 cents...

Sean

"S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I think the statement below shows a common ignorance regarding F1 and the like. I can assure you
> that after 2 hours in a Ferrari Cipo would likely be dead or at least leave steaming piles of
> broken (multimillion dollar) race cars in his wake. They are two different activities and cannot
> be so simply compared. I understand his sentiment, but this statement is ridiculous. As for Lance,
> sour grapes..Cipo's just mad he can't climb!! ;-)
>
> Cheers!
>
> Scott..
> --
> Scott Anderson
>
> "ronde champ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > You have to love Cipo. From cyclingnews.com:
> >
> <<snip..>>
> >
> > "I consider that sport is a competition in which a men counts for more
> than
> > half, and that half is equal for all men. If I got into a Ferrari, after
> two
> > hours I would do better times than most other drivers."
> >
>
> <<snip..>>
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ronde Champ
> >
> >
 
"Dave Hansen" <[email protected]...
>
>
> "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Is there any doubt that Museeuw is the tougest SOB riding a bike
anywhere.
> > > Mario may be a stud, but Museeuw is the MAN.
> >
> > Yeah but he sucks at Grand Tours.
>
> Yeah but Lance will never win Paris Roubaix and at least Johan races the
tour

(raced) (and "raced" (as in 1998 to 2001...)
 
Why would anybody buy a 308?

"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote
> > Upon reflection and with due respect to Cipo, maybe he meant if he got
> into
> > a Ferrari after two hours he would do better times than most other drivers in the population. If
> > he meant other F-1 drivers, his statement is just
> more
> > attention gathering b.s.
>
> He probably meant that after a couple of hours in a Ferrari, he'd do better than Dennis Barnhart,
> best known as the CEO of one of Silicon Valley's first PC-clone makers. On the day his firm had
> its IPO, his net worth went up by about $10 million (and that was in the early 1980's, when a
> million was a million). He went over to the Ferrari dealership in Los Gatos, bought a 308, filled
> his nose with celebration candy, and four hours later went through a guardrail and died at the
> bottom of a ravine.
 
"Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dave Hansen" <[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > Is there any doubt that Museeuw is the tougest SOB riding a bike
> anywhere.
> > > > Mario may be a stud, but Museeuw is the MAN.
> > >
> > > Yeah but he sucks at Grand Tours.
> >
> > Yeah but Lance will never win Paris Roubaix and at least Johan races the
> tour
>
> (raced) (and "raced" (as in 1998 to 2001...)

That is two more times than Lance will ever do Paris Roubaix Dave
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tony Szurly" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> > > Just like Cipo in a Ferrari. Take it for what it's worth.
> > >
> > > Maybe he can get his buddy Briatore to squeeze him into a Renault and see how his lap times
> > > are. Then again, maybe Briatore figures it isn't worth the effort.
> >
> >
> > Except Cipo already owns a Ferrari.
>
> But not one of _those_ Ferraris.
>
> BTW, how ludicrous (as if it wasn't ludicrous enough already), would Cipo's statement sound if it
> came out of Pantani's mouth?

Probably pretty stupid since his driving exploits are well documented, How do we know that Cipo
DOESN'T know how to drive fast. Make it even, put both in a showroom Ferrari. Dave
 
"Dave Hansen" <dhansen2.rr.com...
>
> "Ken Papai" <ken@@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> >
> > "Dave Hansen" <[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Ken Papai" <ken@@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there any doubt that Museeuw is the tougest SOB riding a bike
> > anywhere.
> > > > > Mario may be a stud, but Museeuw is the MAN.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah but he sucks at Grand Tours.
> > >
> > > Yeah but Lance will never win Paris Roubaix and at least Johan races
the
> > tour
> >
> > (raced) (and "raced" (as in 1998 to 2001...)
>
> That is two more times than Lance will ever do Paris Roubaix

One Day P-R is not comparable to a three week Grand Tour.

There are Tour Days rougher than the non-wet, non-muddy P-R days. The last two P-R's have been
pretty epic. But then there are 7-8 super epic days AT LEAST in the three grand tours every year.

How would you compare P-R to a 220K race stage with four Cat. 1 climbs?

You can't.

-Kenneth, fan of Museeuw and LANCE (and LeMond in the '80s and La Elfantina in the mid-'90s.)
 
"Dave Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Except Cipo already owns a Ferrari.
> >
> > But not one of _those_ Ferraris.
> >
> > BTW, how ludicrous (as if it wasn't ludicrous enough already), would
Cipo's
> > statement sound if it came out of Pantani's mouth?
>
> Probably pretty stupid since his driving exploits are well documented, How
do we know that Cipo
> DOESN'T know how to drive fast. Make it even, put both in a showroom
Ferrari.
> Dave
>

Knowing how to drive a street car fast and driving a F-1 car within 5% of Schumacher's lap times are
two entirely different things. Even Niki Lauda ('75, '77, '84 F-1 world champ) couldn't drive the
2002 Jaguar at close to a competitive time:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/01/s8094.html

Niki Lauda got back into a formula1 car for the first time since 1999 (when he piloted the McLaren
two-seater car) in Valencia, Spain, today (Sunday). His last race took place in 1985. The former
multiple world champion is now the chief executive officer of Jaguar Racing, and is working towards
steering the team to glory after three difficult years.

Back in December he proclaimed that he would test today as the cars have changed so much that
it would enable him to better understand the feedback he received from Eddie Irvine and Pedro
de la Rosa.

Neither driver thought he would be able to match their lap times at the track, with de la Rosa
stating, as friendly rivalry, that he hoped the Austrian crashed. He also predicted that if Lauda
were able to get within four seconds of either driver then he would be doing well.

So far it looks like de la Rosa's wish has the possibility of coming true. Lauda has completed just
a handful of laps but has already spun the R2 twice, although he did not stall either time.

He did manage three timed laps before he called it a day at lunchtime, and progressively moved up
the time sheets starting off with a 1:31.180. He then improved to a 1:30.070 before finishing up on
a 1:29.480. Pedro de la Rosa's time around the same track in the R2 was a 1:14.000.

Valencia is a tight, twisty track designed for motorbike racing, and so is a difficult circuit for
him to debut on. His skill is in no doubt after taking part in 177 Grands Prix, winning 25 races,
taking 24 pole positions, scoring
420.5 points and securing three world championship titles.

However, technology has greatly moved on since the mid-eighties, and drivers can no longer manhandle
cars around the circuit. Smooth driving is required for these more nervous machines, and it can take
some adjusting to as former CART drivers who switched to formula1, Alex Zanardi and Juan Pablo
Montoya, can attest to.
 
"Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:ADpR9.222198$qF3.15605@sccrnsc04...
>
> "Dave Hansen" <dhansen2.rr.com...
> >
> > "Ken Papai" <ken@@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> > >
> > > "Dave Hansen" <[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Ken Papai" <ken@@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there any doubt that Museeuw is the tougest SOB riding a bike
> > > anywhere.
> > > > > > Mario may be a stud, but Museeuw is the MAN.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah but he sucks at Grand Tours.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah but Lance will never win Paris Roubaix and at least Johan races
> the
> > > tour
> > >
> > > (raced) (and "raced" (as in 1998 to 2001...)
> >
> > That is two more times than Lance will ever do Paris Roubaix
>
> One Day P-R is not comparable to a three week Grand Tour.
>
> There are Tour Days rougher than the non-wet, non-muddy P-R days. The last two P-R's have been
> pretty epic. But then there are 7-8 super epic days AT LEAST in the three grand tours every year.
>
> How would you compare P-R to a 220K race stage with four Cat. 1 climbs?
>
> You can't.
>
> -Kenneth, fan of Museeuw and LANCE (and LeMond in the '80s and La Elfantina in the mid-'90s.)

I think it is safe to say that a 260KM Paris Roubaix in any condition eats your body up just as much
as a 220KM tour stage with 4 cat 1 climbs. And if it isn't then Lance shouldn't have a problem with
it. The average length of a stage in the 2002 TDF was 163.8 km. The principle stages of difficulty
were: Stage 11- 1 cat 1 climb and 1 HC climb Stage 12- 2 Cat 1 plus 1 HC Stage 14- 1 Cat 1 Stage
15- 1 Cat Stage 16- 3 HC Stage 17- 3 Cat 1

With the exception of stage 12 , 16 and 17, the rest of the tour was a parade, I was surprised that
a 4.3km 3.5% climb was considered HC. (stage 16 Cole De Telegraphe)

Dave
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Knowing how to drive a street car fast and driving a F-1 car within 5% of Schumacher's lap times
> are two entirely different things. Even Niki Lauda ('75, '77, '84 F-1 world champ) couldn't drive
> the 2002 Jaguar at close to a competitive time:

That is why I said put both Cipo and Schumacher both in streetable Ferrari's, although I am sure
Michael would still kick his ass Dave
 
In article <[email protected]>, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Dave Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > Except Cipo already owns a Ferrari.
> > >
> > > But not one of _those_ Ferraris.
> > >
> > > BTW, how ludicrous (as if it wasn't ludicrous enough already), would
> Cipo's
> > > statement sound if it came out of Pantani's mouth?
> >
> > Probably pretty stupid since his driving exploits are well documented, How
> do we know that Cipo
> > DOESN'T know how to drive fast. Make it even, put both in a showroom
> Ferrari.
> > Dave
> >
>
> Knowing how to drive a street car fast and driving a F-1 car within 5% of Schumacher's lap times
> are two entirely different things. Even Niki Lauda ('75, '77, '84 F-1 world champ) couldn't drive
> the 2002 Jaguar at close to a competitive time:
>

While there is no doubting Cipo's bike handling skills, I am not sure there is a way to correlate
them to car handling skills. In particular the connection between the tires and the driver's feet.
Even with all the traction control electronics that the current F1 cars are using, the driver still
needs incredible amounts of feel for how much throttle is -just- enough for the conditions.
Schumacher is, at the moment, the best in that department. The proof, to me, is in his speeds in the
wet. He is so much faster than everyone else when it's wet. As far as bike racers being fast in cars
go, it's the motorcycle racers that probably stand the best chance of doing good lap times in a F1
car. Max Biaggi tested with Ferrari a couple years ago, and I recall his times were within a few
seconds of Irvine's. It'd be great to see Rossi get to test with them, but he'd rather do rally
(where you need even better feel for traction, I suspect). I have to say that Cipo's satement shows
he's forgotten nothing about self-promotion...

--
tanx, Howard

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, k?

For some people, quantity IS quality...
 
"Dave Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:CRKR9.218876$%[email protected]...
>
> "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ADpR9.222198$qF3.15605@sccrnsc04...
> >
> > "Dave Hansen" <dhansen2.rr.com...
> > >
> > > "Ken Papai" <ken@@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> > > >
> > > > "Dave Hansen" <[email protected]...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ken Papai" <ken@@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is there any doubt that Museeuw is the tougest SOB riding a
bike
> > > > anywhere.
> > > > > > > Mario may be a stud, but Museeuw is the MAN.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah but he sucks at Grand Tours.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah but Lance will never win Paris Roubaix and at least Johan
races
> > the
> > > > tour
> > > >
> > > > (raced) (and "raced" (as in 1998 to 2001...)
> > >
> > > That is two more times than Lance will ever do Paris Roubaix
> >
> > One Day P-R is not comparable to a three week Grand Tour.
> >
> > There are Tour Days rougher than the non-wet, non-muddy P-R days. The last two P-R's have been
> > pretty epic. But then there are 7-8 super
epic
> > days AT LEAST in the three grand tours every year.
> >
> > How would you compare P-R to a 220K race stage with four Cat. 1 climbs?
> >
> > You can't.
> >
> > -Kenneth, fan of Museeuw and LANCE (and LeMond in the '80s and La Elfantina in the mid-'90s.)
>
> I think it is safe to say that a 260KM Paris Roubaix in any condition eats
your body up just as much
> as a 220KM tour stage with 4 cat 1 climbs. And if it isn't then Lance
shouldn't have a problem with
> it. The average length of a stage in the 2002 TDF was 163.8 km. The
principle stages of difficulty
> were: Stage 11- 1 cat 1 climb and 1 HC climb Stage 12- 2 Cat 1 plus 1 HC Stage 14- 1 Cat 1 Stage
> 15- 1 Cat Stage 16- 3 HC Stage 17- 3 Cat 1
>
> With the exception of stage 12 , 16 and 17, the rest of the tour was a
parade, I was surprised that
> a 4.3km 3.5% climb was considered HC. (stage 16 Cole De Telegraphe)
>

The Telegraph thing has to be a misprint. Doens't matter if it was the final col that day or not.
That's a fairly trivial climb by anyone's standards -- 3.5% for 4.3km.
 
Dave Hansen wrote:
> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Knowing how to drive a street car fast and driving a F-1 car within 5% of Schumacher's lap times
>> are two entirely different things.
>
> That is why I said put both Cipo and Schumacher both in streetable Ferrari's, although I am sure
> Michael would still kick his ass

Then for the cycling part of the challenge put both on a recumbent.
 
"Dave Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > Knowing how to drive a street car fast and driving a F-1 car within 5% of Schumacher's lap times
> > are two entirely different things. Even Niki Lauda ('75, '77, '84 F-1 world champ) couldn't
> > drive the 2002 Jaguar at close to a competitive time:
>
>
> That is why I said put both Cipo and Schumacher both in streetable Ferrari's, although I am sure
> Michael would still kick his ass Dave

Agreed, but remember what Cipo was saying in his quote, "If I got into a Ferrari, after two hours I
would do better times than most other drivers."

I'll bet he wasn't referring to a 360 Modena.
 
Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> While there is no doubting Cipo's bike handling skills, I am not sure there is a way to correlate
> them to car handling skills. In particular the connection between the tires and the driver's feet.
> Even with all the traction control electronics that the current F1 cars are using, the driver
> still needs incredible amounts of feel for how much throttle is -just- enough for the conditions.
> Schumacher is, at the moment, the best in that department. The proof, to me, is in his speeds in
> the wet. He is so much faster than everyone else when it's wet. As far as bike racers being fast
> in cars go, it's the motorcycle racers that probably stand the best chance of doing good lap times
> in a F1 car. Max Biaggi tested with Ferrari a couple years ago, and I recall his times were within
> a few seconds of Irvine's. It'd be great to see Rossi get to test with them, but he'd rather do
> rally (where you need even better feel for traction, I suspect). I have to say that Cipo's
> satement shows he's forgotten nothing about self-promotion...
>

That might have been this:

www.atlasf1.com/news/1999/1061.htm

As you may remember, several years ago Mick Doohan was able to drive a F-1 car. He was barely able
to keep it from hitting the walls. It seems like another MotoGP rider (I can't remember who) just
had the opportunity to drive a F-1 car, the Minardi two seater I think, and commented that braking
distances took the most mental adjustment. He said that when he would have hit his braking marker on
his bike, the car driver was still shifting into a higher gear.
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Carl
Sundquist) wrote:

> Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > While there is no doubting Cipo's bike handling skills, I am not sure there is a way to
> > correlate them to car handling skills. In particular the connection between the tires and the
> > driver's feet. Even with all the traction control electronics that the current F1 cars are
> > using, the driver still needs incredible amounts of feel for how much throttle is -just- enough
> > for the conditions. Schumacher is, at the moment, the best in that department. The proof, to me,
> > is in his speeds in the wet. He is so much faster than everyone else when it's wet. As far as
> > bike racers being fast in cars go, it's the motorcycle racers that probably stand the best
> > chance of doing good lap times in a F1 car. Max Biaggi tested with Ferrari a couple years ago,
> > and I recall his times were within a few seconds of Irvine's. It'd be great to see Rossi get to
> > test with them, but he'd rather do rally (where you need even better feel for traction, I
> > suspect). I have to say that Cipo's satement shows he's forgotten nothing about
> > self-promotion...
> >
>
> That might have been this:
>
> www.atlasf1.com/news/1999/1061.htm

Yeah, that's the one. I'd forgotten just how fast he'd been, I just remembered he did get around
pretty damn fast.

>
> As you may remember, several years ago Mick Doohan was able to drive a F-1 car. He was barely able
> to keep it from hitting the walls. It seems like another MotoGP rider (I can't remember who) just
> had the opportunity to drive a F-1 car, the Minardi two seater I think, and commented that braking
> distances took the most mental adjustment. He said that when he would have hit his braking marker
> on his bike, the car driver was still shifting into a higher gear.

Cars have it all over bikes when it comes to braking, but the bikes accelerate much better. One of
the Brit bike mags (Superbike or Performance Bike) had an article a few months ago where they ran
one of the BSB Ducatis against a GT car of some sort - the bike got pummeled. It was all on the
brakes and mid-turn that the racecar made the ground up. Speaking of bike brakes, I noticed that
Aprilia aren't putting carbon brakes on the 250s next year. Strange.

--
tanx, Howard

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, k?

For some people, quantity IS quality...
 
[email protected] (Carl Sundquist) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > While there is no doubting Cipo's bike handling skills, I am not sure there is a way to
> > correlate them to car handling skills. In particular the connection between the tires and the
> > driver's feet. Even with all the traction control electronics that the current F1 cars are
> > using, the driver still needs incredible amounts of feel for how much throttle is -just- enough
> > for the conditions. Schumacher is, at the moment, the best in that department. The proof, to me,
> > is in his speeds in the wet. He is so much faster than everyone else when it's wet. As far as
> > bike racers being fast in cars go, it's the motorcycle racers that probably stand the best
> > chance of doing good lap times in a F1 car. Max Biaggi tested with Ferrari a couple years ago,
> > and I recall his times were within a few seconds of Irvine's. It'd be great to see Rossi get to
> > test with them, but he'd rather do rally (where you need even better feel for traction, I
> > suspect). I have to say that Cipo's satement shows he's forgotten nothing about
> > self-promotion...
> >
>
> That might have been this:
>
> www.atlasf1.com/news/1999/1061.htm
>

Yadda yadda yadda, there's no way being a race car driver is as hard as some people would give you
the impression. No way is it as physically demanding as a million other sports, even with the
G-forces. Also, everytime I see a race, drivers are crashing and DNFing more than legally blind
junior Cat 4s. If bike racers crashed that much they'd be run out of the sport.

I think a lot of people could be race car drivers if they had the opportunity and a chance to
practice a bit (like Biaggi above). Certainly more than that could win a World Cup race or perform
brain surgery.

-Amit
 
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