Take that Schuey and Lance!

[Chris Mitchell]

"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message >
> As you may remember, several years ago Mick Doohan was able to drive a F-1 car. He was barely able
> to keep it from hitting the walls. It seems like another MotoGP rider (I can't remember who) just
> had the opportunity to drive a F-1 car, the Minardi two seater I think, and commented that braking
> distances took the most mental adjustment.

John Surtees, a World Motorcycling Champion and after that Formula One World Champion (driving in
the sixties for Ferrari, in the 1.5 liter days). Did Richie Ginther race motorcycles before driving
the first Honda F1 car?

-Chris Mitchell

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Amit) wrote:
>
> Yadda yadda yadda, there's no way being a race car driver is as hard as some people would give you
> the impression. No way is it as physically demanding as a million other sports, even with the
> G-forces. Also, everytime I see a race, drivers are crashing and DNFing more than legally blind
> junior Cat 4s. If bike racers crashed that much they'd be run out of the sport.
>

Nah, the promoters need their dough...

> I think a lot of people could be race car drivers if they had the opportunity and a chance to
> practice a bit (like Biaggi above). Certainly more than that could win a World Cup race or perform
> brain surgery.
>
> -Amit

Well, yeah, lots of people -could- be race car drivers. But they'd mostly be bad race car drivers.
Anyway, I never subscribed to the theory that it's a particularly athletic occupation. I think of
it as a skill set that the fast guys have (mostly revolving around feel for traction) that most
people don't, at least not anywhere approaching the same degree. It's the same reason some guys get
down a hill faster on their bikes than others. But I do agree with your last statement (esp. the
last one!).

--
tanx, Howard

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, k?

For some people, quantity IS quality...

 

[Robert Chung]

"Amit" <[email protected]> wrote
> Certainly more than that could win a World Cup race or perform brain surgery.

A colleague once told me, "Brain surgery? The Incas could do it." He's a cardiac surgeon. I pointed
out to him that the Aztecs used to do that.

 

[Tom Kunich]

[email protected] (Amit) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Yadda yadda yadda, there's no way being a race car driver is as hard as some people would give you
> the impression. No way is it as physically demanding as a million other sports, even with the
> G-forces. Also, everytime I see a race, drivers are crashing and DNFing more than legally blind
> junior Cat 4s. If bike racers crashed that much they'd be run out of the sport.

Now that is a funny line and brings to mind pieces of bicycle flying through the air like ice in a
hailstorm.

> I think a lot of people could be race car drivers if they had the opportunity and a chance to
> practice a bit (like Biaggi above). Certainly more than could win a World Cup race or perform
> brain surgery.

People's endless facination with automobiles will lead them to make preposterous ascertions about
cars and drivers.

Race car drivers are sportsmen. And their sport requires a lot of skill and coordination. Try
judging the last bit of adhesion of your tires on the road while cornering at 1 gee and see if it
doesn't. But even the most skillful sportman driver cannot be called an athlete.

Athletic performance requires not just skill and speed, something excellent car racers of necessity
must have, but heights of physical strength and agility. Many race car drivers would be hard pressed
to jog one mile. To cite a single winning race car driver and then suggest that because he is
physically fit and so the sport is athletic is like suggesting that skydiving is a sensible sport.

 

[McCoughan]

Amit, given the facts/comments within previous posts, how could you say that?

while they may not be endurance athletes, like bike racers/marathon runners, F1 drivers are a very
rare breed - just look at the competitiveness of the league = what are there, 11 teams, each with
only 2 or 3 drivers? considering that the racing attracts world class drivers from around the globe,
thats damn competitive!

F1 demands intense concentration, supremely accurate hand-eye coordination and speed - no, its not
football or bike racing, its more of a skill sport than physical exertion.. - dont get me wrong, all
sports require skill, esp bike racing (i'm a lowly cat 3) but F1 demands such a high skill level
that one should respect them~ if any mistakes are made, they're hard to recover from, given the
speeds and high level of competition-

also, I think that Mike Schumacher is one of the worlds most highly paid athletes - big contract,
plus huge endorsements. if nearly anyone could drive that well, he wouldnt get paid THAT much..

Sean
ps -if curling is a sport, F1 is definitely a sport..

[email protected] (Amit) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Carl Sundquist) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >
> > > While there is no doubting Cipo's bike handling skills, I am not sure there is a way to
> > > correlate them to car handling skills. In particular the connection between the tires and the
> > > driver's feet. Even with all the traction control electronics that the current F1 cars are
> > > using, the driver still needs incredible amounts of feel for how much throttle is -just-
> > > enough for the conditions. Schumacher is, at the moment, the best in that department. The
> > > proof, to me, is in his speeds in the wet. He is so much faster than everyone else when it's
> > > wet. As far as bike racers being fast in cars go, it's the motorcycle racers that probably
> > > stand the best chance of doing good lap times in a F1 car. Max Biaggi tested with Ferrari a
> > > couple years ago, and I recall his times were within a few seconds of Irvine's. It'd be great
> > > to see Rossi get to test with them, but he'd rather do rally (where you need even better feel
> > > for traction, I suspect). I have to say that Cipo's satement shows he's forgotten nothing
> > > about self-promotion...
> > >
> >
> > That might have been this:
> >
> > www.atlasf1.com/news/1999/1061.htm
> >
>
> Yadda yadda yadda, there's no way being a race car driver is as hard as some people would give you
> the impression. No way is it as physically demanding as a million other sports, even with the
> G-forces. Also, everytime I see a race, drivers are crashing and DNFing more than legally blind
> junior Cat 4s. If bike racers crashed that much they'd be run out of the sport.
>
> I think a lot of people could be race car drivers if they had the opportunity and a chance to
> practice a bit (like Biaggi above). Certainly more than that could win a World Cup race or perform
> brain surgery.
>
> -Amit

 

[McCoughan]

amit, given the above postings, how can u say that?

F1 seems to really wear down racers - between the heat and violent nature of the car, the necessity
for complete concentration, and small room for error, they're bound to get off course every now and
then. i think that driving f1 takes a lot of patience and strategic action too. its such a
competitive league - 11 teams, about 2 or 3 drivers per team = much more elite than nearly all
professions.

just watch a few F3000 races - those guys are trying to drive their way into an F1 car = equal cars,
with a larger group of drivers, and they still tire and make mistakes.

While they are not athletes like Bartoli or Armstrong, they do compete with eachother on a very high
level. They stay in relatively good shape -their skills are unique and can make the difference
between winning a race, or sliding offroad into a concrete barrier..

Sean

>
> Yadda yadda yadda, there's no way being a race car driver is as hard as some people would give you
> the impression. No way is it as physically demanding as a million other sports, even with the
> G-forces. Also, everytime I see a race, drivers are crashing and DNFing more than legally blind
> junior Cat 4s. If bike racers crashed that much they'd be run out of the sport.
>
> I think a lot of people could be race car drivers if they had the opportunity and a chance to
> practice a bit (like Biaggi above). Certainly more than that could win a World Cup race or perform
> brain surgery.
>
> -Amit

 

[Tom Kunich]

"McCoughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Amit, given the facts/comments within previous posts, how could you say that?
>
> while they may not be endurance athletes, like bike racers/marathon runners, F1 drivers are a very
> rare breed - just look at the competitiveness of the league = what are there, 11 teams, each with
> only 2 or 3 drivers? considering that the racing attracts world class drivers from around the
> globe, thats damn competitive!

That is nothing like championship Pinocle. Are they athletes because the competition is
extremely strong?

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tom Kunich) wrote:

> [email protected] (Amit) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > Yadda yadda yadda, there's no way being a race car driver is as hard as some people would give
> > you the impression. No way is it as physically demanding as a million other sports, even with
> > the G-forces. Also, everytime I see a race, drivers are crashing and DNFing more than legally
> > blind junior Cat 4s. If bike racers crashed that much they'd be run out of the sport.
>
> Now that is a funny line and brings to mind pieces of bicycle flying through the air like ice in a
> hailstorm.
>
> > I think a lot of people could be race car drivers if they had the opportunity and a chance to
> > practice a bit (like Biaggi above). Certainly more than could win a World Cup race or perform
> > brain surgery.
>
> People's endless facination with automobiles will lead them to make preposterous ascertions about
> cars and drivers.
>
> Race car drivers are sportsmen. And their sport requires a lot of skill and coordination. Try
> judging the last bit of adhesion of your tires on the road while cornering at 1 gee and see if it
> doesn't. But even the most skillful sportman driver cannot be called an athlete.
>
> Athletic performance requires not just skill and speed, something excellent car racers of
> necessity must have, but heights of physical strength and agility. Many race car drivers would be
> hard pressed to jog one mile. To cite a single winning race car driver and then suggest that
> because he is physically fit and so the sport is athletic is like suggesting that skydiving is a
> sensible sport.

If there is a single top-series open-wheel race car (CART, F1) driver who couldn't jog a mile with
ease, I'd be shocked. That is where this discussion started.

These drivers need cardio endurance like crazy, just so they can endure 90 minutes in the cars. They
need considerable upper-body strength so they can steer the cars (power steering or not, and in some
cars, not).

Beyond these series, your assertion holds water: as I noted, pudgy drag racers and even some
decently rotund NASCAR drivers do okay. But at the top of the sport you don't find 50-year-olds in
the cars, and you don't find fat guys in the cars, and you don't find unfit drivers in the cars.

It is often argued that auto racing isn't an athletic activity, but it's virtually impossible to
compete in F1 without being very athletic.

Ah, screw it. Let's go riding.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] (trim trailing t), www.sfu.ca/~rcousine FREE WINONA!

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<hT%R9.448073$pN3.49310@sccrnsc03>...
> "Dave Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:CRKR9.218876$%[email protected]...
> >
> > With the exception of stage 12 , 16 and 17, the rest of the tour was a
> parade, I was surprised that
> > a 4.3km 3.5% climb was considered HC. (stage 16 Cole De Telegraphe)
>
> The Telegraph thing has to be a misprint. Doens't matter if it was the final col that day or not.
> That's a fairly trivial climb by anyone's standards -- 3.5% for 4.3km.

The Col du Telegraphe is the northern approach to the Galibier. It is an 11.5 km (7 mi) climb with
an average grade of 7.6% and a maximum pitch of 9%. The altitude at the Col is 5137 feet. This
ain't no sissie ride and it's followed by the climb up the Grand Galibier which is another 18.5 km
(11.5 mi) of 6.9% with a maximum grade of 10%. The air is thinning in Valloire between the two
climbs and at the Galibier it reached 8,668 feet of altitude and air thin enough that you can get
altitude sickness.

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> The Col du Telegraphe is the northern approach to the Galibier.

Not necessarily, it is also a little hump in the northern descent of the Galibier, as was the case
in last year's stage 16 (what Dave was talking about).

 

[Tom Kunich]

Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > The Col du Telegraphe is the northern approach to the Galibier.
>
> Not necessarily, it is also a little hump in the northern descent of the Galibier, as was the case
> in last year's stage 16 (what Dave was talking about).

Ahh, so there was only the hop from Valloire to the top of the Telegraphe.

 

[Acrimony]

"I consider that sport is a competition in which a men counts for more than half, and that half is
equal for all men. If I got into a Ferrari, after two hours I would do better times than most
other drivers."

Yeah, i think cycling takes more hard work to make it to the top tha F1 driving does. But not many people realise how fit you have to be to be like schuey. F1 racing is the only sport where your heart rate is generally over 200 beats per minute for extended periods of time (usually over an hour). Try doing that on a bike, its not possible. I'm 23 and pretty fit, yet my heart rate maxes out at about 200, schuey is in his thirties and he can get his heart rate to 220 - 230. Yes, it is adrenaline and not physical effort that causes this, but the strain on their bodies is the same no matter what the cause. If lance and schuey did a general fitness test (not a cycling one), such as the beep test, i have no doubt that schuey would beat lance.

while i do think motor sport is a rich boys sport, i give credit where credit is due, and F1 drivers are extreme athlets

 

[Tritonrider]

>From: Acrimony [email protected]

>Yeah, i think cycling takes more hard work to make it to the top tha F1 driving does. But not many
>people realise how fit you have to be to be like schuey.

I don't remember where I saw it, but there is a recent picture of Schuey with the jumpsuit open
sitting doing interviews and he is definitely chiseled. You can see enough definition to know he is
in great shape. Bill C

 

[Ken Papai]

"Acrimony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "I consider that sport is a competition in which a men counts for more than half, and that half is
> equal for all men. If I got into a Ferrari, after two hours I would do better times than most
> other drivers."

What?

You're NEW right?
>
> Yeah, i think cycling takes more hard work to make it to the top tha F1 driving does. But not many
> people realise how fit you have to be to be like schuey. F1 racing is the only sport where your
> heart rate is generally over 200 beats per minute for extended periods of time (usually over an
> hour). Try doing that on a bike, its not possible. I'm 23 and pretty fit, yet my heart rate maxes
> out at about 200, schuey is in his thirties and he can get his heart rate to .... WHO F'ing
cares............

 

[Peter Allen]

"Acrimony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "I consider that sport is a competition in which a men counts for more than half, and that half is
> equal for all men. If I got into a Ferrari, after two hours I would do better times than most
> other drivers."
>
> Yeah, i think cycling takes more hard work to make it to the top tha F1 driving does. But not many
> people realise how fit you have to be to be like schuey. F1 racing is the only sport where your
> heart rate is generally over 200 beats per minute for extended periods of time (usually over an
> hour). Try doing that on a bike, its not possible. I'm 23 and pretty fit, yet my heart rate maxes
> out at about 200, schuey is in his thirties and he can get his heart rate to 220 - 230. Yes, it is
> adrenaline and not physical effort that causes this, but the strain on their bodies is the same no
> matter what the cause. If lance and schuey did a general fitness test (not a cycling one), such as
> the beep test, i have no doubt that schuey would beat lance.

So you think because I can average 191 for an hour (on a bike) I would beat Lance in a beep test?

Peter

 

[Steve McGinty]

On 17 Oct 2003 10:49:49 +0950, Acrimony <[email protected]> wrote:

>"I consider that sport is a competition in which a men counts for more than half, and that half is
>equal for all men. If I got into a Ferrari, after two hours I would...

...just about be able to take off without stalling it.

Regards! Stephen

 

[jwdwrd]

Originally posted by Robert Chung
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote
> Upon reflection and with due respect to Cipo, maybe he meant if he got
into
> a Ferrari after two hours he would do better times than most other drivers in the population. If
> he meant other F-1 drivers, his statement is just
more
> attention gathering b.s.

He probably meant that after a couple of hours in a Ferrari, he'd do better than Dennis Barnhart,
best known as the CEO of one of Silicon Valley's first PC-clone makers. On the day his firm had
its IPO, his net worth went up by about $10 million (and that was in the early 1980's, when a
million was a million). He went over to the Ferrari dealership in Los Gatos, bought a 308, filled
his nose with celebration candy, and four hours later went through a guardrail and died at the
bottom of a ravine.

How dare you even start to think you have a right of any sort to discuss my father- this nose candy comment is so far from the truth that I dont even know where to begin- you go ahead a write me if you pull your heads out and want some facts. Just dont speak of things that you do not have any knowledge of- signed- Jennifer Barnhart-Woodward

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"jwdwrd" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Robert Chung wrote:
> > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > Upon reflection and with due respect to Cipo, maybe he meant if he
got
> > into
> > > a Ferrari after two hours he would do better times than most other drivers in the
> > > population. If he meant other F-1 drivers, his statement is just
> > more
> > > attention gathering b.s.
> > He probably meant that after a couple of hours in a Ferrari, he'd do better than Dennis
> > Barnhart, best known as the CEO of one of Silicon Valley's first PC-clone makers. On the day
> > his firm had its IPO, his net worth went up by about $10 million (and that was in the early
> > 1980's, when a million was a million). He went over to the Ferrari dealership in Los Gatos,
> > bought a 308, filled his nose with celebration candy, and four hours later went through a
> > guardrail and died at the bottom of a ravine.
>
> How dare you even start to think you have a right of any sort to discuss my father- this nose
> candy comment is so far from the truth that I dont even know where to begin- you go ahead a write
> me if you pull your heads out and want some facts. Just dont speak of things that you do not have
> any knowledge of- signed- Jennifer Barnhart-Woodward

Damn straight!

That sort of accident sounds like drunkenness, not cocaine.

 

[Robert Chung]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> "jwdwrd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Robert Chung wrote:
>> > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote
>> > > Upon reflection and with due respect to Cipo, maybe he meant if
>> he got > into
>> > > a Ferrari after two hours he would do better times than most
>> other > > drivers in the population. If he meant other F-1 drivers, his > > statement is just
>> > more
>> > > attention gathering b.s.
>> > He probably meant that after a couple of hours in a Ferrari, he'd
>> do > better than Dennis Barnhart, best known as the CEO of one of Silicon > Valley's first
>> PC-clone makers. On the day his firm had its IPO, his > net worth went up by about $10
>> million (and that was in the early > 1980's, when a million was a million). He went over
>> to the Ferrari > dealership in Los Gatos, bought a 308, filled his nose with celebration >
>> candy, and four hours later went through a guardrail and died at the > bottom of a ravine.
>>
>> How dare you even start to think you have a right of any sort to discuss my father- this nose
>> candy comment is so far from the truth that I dont even know where to begin- you go ahead a
>> write me if you pull your heads out and want some facts. Just dont speak of things that you do
>> not have any knowledge of- signed- Jennifer Barnhart-Woodward
>
>
>
> Damn straight!
>
> That sort of accident sounds like drunkenness, not cocaine.

Yeah. I apologize for posting that Dennis Barnhart died on the day Eagle Computer went public while
in an altered state in an hours-old Ferrari. The Ferrari was new, but not hours-old.

 

[Kyle Legate]

jwdwrd wrote:
> Robert Chung wrote:
> > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > Upon reflection and with due respect to Cipo, maybe he meant if
> he got > into
> > > a Ferrari after two hours he would do better times than most
> other > > drivers in the population. If he meant other F-1 drivers, his > > statement is just
> > more
> > > attention gathering b.s.
> > He probably meant that after a couple of hours in a Ferrari, he'd
> do > better than Dennis Barnhart, best known as the CEO of one of Silicon > Valley's first
> PC-clone makers. On the day his firm had its IPO, his > net worth went up by about $10
> million (and that was in the early > 1980's, when a million was a million). He went over to
> the Ferrari > dealership in Los Gatos, bought a 308, filled his nose with celebration >
> candy, and four hours later went through a guardrail and died at the > bottom of a ravine.
>
> How dare you even start to think you have a right of any sort to discuss my father- this nose
> candy comment is so far from the truth that I dont even know where to begin- >
>
Why, did you smoke a spliff with him instead?