Talk about peaking!

Mark Cunningham of Symmetrics phoned me a couple months ago (he's another one of those people in cycling that Van de Wille says will not talk to me), and he seemed to indicate that indeed they will be increasing their budget long the lines mentioned above. He has a solid a five-year plan.

When I mentioned the coverage of Beauce I was not referring to results, anybody can post those. I was referring to getting behind the scenes and explaining the issues. Both Pedal and CC seem incapable of that. Did either one interview Dave Butler and expand on his thoughts?

Who else do you think will do it, The Globe and Mail!

On Pedal Ed you ahd this to say about Symetrics:

Huge budget""???
Can you be more specific? Is it over $350,000? Should we factor in inflation?

"Poised" to do all the big US races?
I'm poised to be the next President of the CCA. Let's wait and see what is actually accomplished first before "poising"

We had a five-year plan to do the same fifteen years ago. It didn't happpen. I plan to retire in Monaco and do Princess Caroline on a regular basis.

Let's see how it all works out.

How many cars does Syummetrics have? How many bikes? What are their riders paid?

You get back to me all that.

And when they have run the best team in Canada for five years, generated over 200 pages of press clippings across every major market in Canada every year, had hours of TV coverage, sent five of their riders to the Olympics, hired foreign riders for other Olympic teams or Canadians who wore a Yellow Jersey at the Tour de France, when they have done all those things, I'll congratulate them on having MATCHED what Evian did fifteen year ago and I will forward to them doing more.

Wake me went it's time.

So I imagine the phone call you received went somthing like this:

"Listen Ed A, what positive thing have you done for the sport lately? Instead of slagging us get off your [censored] and do something constructive."

So - yes maybe you did get a call but what was it really about - cease and desist?

No, as always, the phone call went much more like this.

"Hi Ed, I've been following your comments on X and you seem to really know your stuff. Good to see somebody pointing out those things, we would do it but we have to work with these people. Here is what we are hoping to do in the next couple years....

Call Cunningham yourself and ask him.

Or wait until he calls you. We'll see how long that takes....

For the record: Evian is still a far bigger team in every way imaginable. As I told Cunngham, he has to leverage his current success to land a national (or international) brand name or two. Right now the team is funded by a bunch of own companies, most of the brands are unknown outside of BC.

When I made my comments on Pedal all the information had been from anonymous sources (what's new?) and not reliable. When I got the true details right from the horses mouth, so to speak, I was able to take it more seriously.

... and then you woke up

[quote="sub55"]"Listen Ed A, what positive thing have you done for the sport lately? Instead of slagging us get off your [censored] and do something constructive."[QUOTE]

I got the official national criterium championship re-instated. That's what I have done just lately.

I doubt any of your jokers on this fourm will be racing nationals but if you do, when you are riding the crit remember to thank me for making mean something.

What have YOU done for the sport EVER?


Anything at all?

Tell us one, just one, accompishment ANY of YOU have done EVER for this sport?

You question what I have done lately?

I did more for this sport in this country in a year than most people will do in a lifetime.

What proof, other than the little voices you hear from your empty beer bottle, do you have that YOU got the crit as a national championship? Can you please post any correspondence from Henry or anyone at CCA or the organizing committee thanking you for showing them the error of their ways?

What? You have none! Now there's a shocker - so Ed unless someone can verify it was you that did it - guess what? You're a either delusional or a liar.

If I were you (scary thought) I go for the "delusional" tag. Fits better.

I was the main proponent behind re-instating it. I made it a public issue. No doubt you were one of the idiots arguing against it just to contradict me.

You want more proof as to what went on behind the scenes, here it is below. You have no clue Sub 55, you're such a loser. Answer my question above, give us ONE thing, just ONE THING you have EVER done for this sport?

Tell us anybody in the sport who is anybody that talks to you?

Send us the behind-the-scenes documentation you have proving I was not instrumental in getting this done. Do you have any? Can YOU prove ANYTHING you say? Never mind that you have no credibility because you hide in anonymity, do you have ANY documentation proving your point?
[font=Bookman Old Style][/font]
----- Original Message ----- From:
To: [email hidden]
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:50 AM
Subject: Re:

[font=arial]Hi Ed
Just as an FYI .I did send this to the events committee in November after talking with Brett about the Nat Crit Champs after talking with Rob early last Spring (04). I got no response at the time, but in re- proposing to Henry he did acknowledge and I believe is in agreement with everything I had to say in the attachment . He will be running it by the committee again.
I think there are quite a few key people in agreement with the concept and things should move forward.
[/font]
[font=arial] document:[/font]
[font=arial]
[font=Arial]Proposal to the Events Committee and Officials Committee November 12, 2004[/font]

[font=Arial][/font]

[font=Arial]Re: National Criterium Champions Jersey[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]I understand that the committee is currently in agreement that a Champions jersey should not be awarded for the National Criterium Championships. I would like to propose that this issue be reconsidered.[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]I pursued this matter with Brett Stewart some time ago to which I was given the explanation that[/font]

[font=Arial] Follows:[/font]

[font=Arial]In my mind, the entire matter comes down to the fact that a Champion's jersey is not awarded for the criterium. [/font][font=Arial]On this basis, the criterium is not considered a recognized title[/font][font=Arial], but all other aspects are equal to the treatment of the road race and ITT.[/font][font=Arial][/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]For example:[/font][font=Arial][/font]

[font=Arial]- The event remains a part of the National Championship schedule.[/font][font=Arial][/font]

[font=Arial]- The top 3 placed riders in each category receive the same Championship medals, as in the road race and ITT.[/font][font=Arial][/font]

[font=Arial]- The winners in each category are recorded as National Champions, as are the road race and ITT winners.[/font][font=Arial][/font]

[font=Arial]- The criterium offers prize money which is not the case for the road race and ITT.[/font][font=Arial][/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]There is no recognized title that applies to criterium, therefore, we cannot recognize the event as having true national champion status. As the criterium is part of the National Championship schedule, we apply the same protocol in place for the road and ITT events, so there is consistency and continuity for all events.[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]Because there is no recognized title status, a number of age groups are combined for the purpose of having 4 start groups with reasonable size fields. For example:[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]This is the format that we have run with for a number of years. The Development Committee supported this prior to the Governance transition, and now the format is supported by both the Officials Committee and the Events Committee. The matter rests with the Program Committees and not the Board.[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]If you feel strongly that there should be an official domestic status for the criterium, then I would recommend that you prepare a proposal to present to the Program Committees during the fall meetings (end of October). This is the time when the committees will review issues emerging from the 2004 season, prior to considering policy amendment for the 2005 season.[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]Regards,[/font]

[font=Arial]Brett [/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]My appeal is based on my belief that there is an opportunity to elevate the importance and profile of the National Criterium and create a marketable entity. This is done successfully with many championships events that have emerged in various disciplines of cycling and other sports over the years.[/font]

[font=Arial]Apparently we acknowledge that we are hosting an event that is not giving a recognized title, but in all other aspects is equal to the road race and tt. It seems that the criterium is currently stuck in the Nationals as a token, with no consideration that it might have the potential to grow in importance even if it not a UCI National Championship.[/font]

[font=Arial]If we accept that it is essentially our National Criterium Championship, then I would like to propose that it be given more potential for marketability by increasing the profile. Can it not be a Champions jersey that varies from the UCI National Champions jerseys. Although Criterium is not a UCI recognized event, it is still a marketable entity in North American Cycling. Just as short track cross country in mountain bike has become a marketable property, but is not a UCI event. This has also been shown in other disciplines and sports. XTerra World Champions were not recognized by ITU, Epic events such as the Trans Alp Challenge are not UCI sanctioned, the 24 Hr Solo Worlds or Nationals is not recognized by any sanctioning body, but these titles all create sponsorship opportunities for the events and for the athletes with the titles. The consumer and many sponsors are not scrutinizing details such as how the event is sanctioned to assess it’s credibility. If the appeal and profile is there, that is their primary concern.[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial]We can build up the profile, appeal and marketability of the National Criterium by awarding a jersey to the Champions and by having this event more optimally scheduled in the weekend to be a crowd draw and at a time that would accommodate athletes vying for Worlds selection. The criterium should take place mid day in an urban center, after the road races the day before.[/font]

[font=Arial] I understand that a primary concern is with regard to the potential for an awarded jersey to be worn inappropriately which would cause unwelcome issues for the Officials. I think this can be very easily avoided with a clear explanation at the outset. The UCI is constantly coming up with rules that everyone manages to figure out, such as the relatively new mandatory wearing of the National Champions jerseys at World Cups.[/font]

[font=Arial]A jersey is the most important accolade of a cyclists success. The criterium, whether acknowledged by the UCI or not, is a very important component of the North American cycling scene. Criteriums are what have in many cases, sold our sport to the public and to potential cycling athletes. I may have never started cycling had I not seen the Gastown Grand Prix. I have heard this same sentiment from many BC cyclists. I am sure there are similar examples across the country.[/font]

[font=Arial]I urge you to reconsider this proposal to fully integrate the Criterium as a celebrated National Event.[/font]

[font=Arial]Best Regards[/font]

[/font]

so let me see if I understand this correctly ...

You have posted a letter that someone sent you written by Brett and some form of communication to someone written by someone saying there should be a jersey.

My god you are right ... it is so obvious, you have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it was you. You're proof is so crystal clear.

Thank you

Sub 55, will you be at the road nationals?

Ask around there and see who is credited with making it official.

Who brought it up?

Who made it an issue?

yup and yup

Eddie Arzouian said:

When I made my comments on Pedal all the information had been from anonymous sources (what's new?) and not reliable. When I got the true details right from the horses mouth, so to speak, I was able to take it more seriously.

The fact you had a bunch of crappy hearsay information didn't stop you from posting at length about it on Pedal? Is that correct? And your inability to land a journalism job surprises and offends you?

And the lack of info also didn't stop you from slagging it with your favorite tool: a bunch of mean-spirited rhetorical questions? Because they weren't doing something as big as what you'd done with Evian? Am I getting this right? Doesn't it sound too familiar, Ed crapping on everybody else because what they're doing isn't as big as what he did, a decade and change ago?

I never thought I could pull off an Ed-style all-question post... eh?

Getting more of the future plans instead of the crappy hearsay, didn't change that fact of the matter that, for the time being, Evian is still the best cycling team in Canadian history by far. Count the press clippings, time the video footage, look at the Olympic team members, count the national titles, count the sponsors, look at the quality of the sponsors, gauge name recognition, count jerseys sold, use any measure you want, Evian still comes out on top.

You can try to revise history if you like Patrick but the facts remain.

As for my journalstic writing the best you have ever been able to do, Paddy our Lapped Canuk, in emulating it is copy it. You wrote for trade magazines, I covered the sport for the mainstream press. Do we want to count stories in the mainstream press? My 300 or more to your what, 20? Tell us how many stories you got published it a mainstream newspaper and not a monthly trade magazine that came out two months after the fact? I covered two, three, four races a week EVERY week for months. You wrote a race report and column once a month. Big deal...

okay, just so the kids don't get confused in all of this ... Ed, this is about you?

Huh? Is this what you managed to get Pedal and Canadian Cyclist to degenerate to? Your battles with everyone on the Forum - do you see a pattern?

Of course you don't - silly me.

Sub 55, look at Van de Wille's post ABOUT ME above.

You think I would not respond to that?

You and I had been debating/discussing/slamming with each other over the national crit champoionship. We had pretty much wound up the thread. I gave you the last word.

Then for out of left field comes Van de Wille denouncing my journalism skills? You don't think that is personal? He wasn't even in the discussion and he comes up with that, something from Pedal months ago, out the blue.

You're damn right I will respond and challenge that.

Van de Wille could have just left left it alone, but no...

Let's see him tell us who had more stories published in total and by the mainstream press.

I probably wrote more cycling reports in a year than he has written his whole life. I matched, at least, eveything he did in Pedal, I was there first, and also had stuff in The Gazette, The G&M (who do you think wrote the only comprehensive Road Nationals cycling coverage EVER published in The G&M in the last 30 years???? I did in 1988, I'm not sure Van de Wille was even in cycling then. If anybody has another G&M nationals story in that peroid let me know), every newspaper in every town we travelled to and Bicycling and VeloNews.

Now that IS about me.

Vintage Ed. Gets called on being willing to fire off mean-spirited posts based on what he admits himself is crappy third-hand information. Gets called on posting something that contradicts what he posted before. His reaction: Hey, no harm no foul. Let's move on to a better topic! Like Evian! Like his journalism skills!

Ed, I worked for a major newspaper for close to ten years (unlike you, who just dreams that he did because he has some friendly e-mails from editors at The Gazoo) - please don't teach me about journalism. Do my, oh, 300+ hours of cycling commentary on mainstream TV stations count? How about the 200+ hours of soccer commentary, also on mainstream networks like Fox Sports? And letters to the editor don't count as "articles" or "columns" anywhere else but in your poseur-journalist head.

Eddie Arzouian said:

Then for out of left field comes Van de Wille denouncing my journalism skills? You don't think that is personal? He wasn't even in the discussion and he comes up with that, something from Pedal months ago, out the blue.

Out of the blue? It was posted in this thread. And replied to by you.

Patrick, you know very well from 1988 to about 1992 I was the only person at The Gazette covering cycling until you wrote to the Managing Editor, Alan Allnutt, to get me fired. In that perioud I had zero letters to the editor and over 300 stories filed. I continued writing for The Gazette after that under a pen name, Randy Renaud, who was my room-mater, a DJ at CHOM-FM and often went to the races. I even used to send him to Winnipeg his hometown as the Evian team manager for the Cobblestone Classic. Randy also had a Master Degree in English Lit. and actually did write a couple of those Gazette reports under his own name.

In 1998 I covered the Quebec Ice Racing (car) championships for The Gazette for two months across Quebec. I actually attended the events.

I do not care about your soccer coverage. I have never seen it so I cannot comment.

Your TV cycling coverage was good I have stated that in many places. While you were doing it I even sent you a congratulatory note or two. We both know Louis Bertrand helped a lot, too.

So Patrick got you fired from the Gazette, banned from CC and Pedal forum? Did he get you fired from Velonews and the Worlds committee too? Anything else?

If you are as a good a journalist or employee as you say, then Patrick must be a helluva conman-the devil himself-in order to convince your employers to fire you.

Eddie Arzouian said:

Patrick, you know very well from 1988 to about 1992 I was the only person at The Gazette covering cycling until you wrote to the Managing Editor, Alan Allnutt, to get me fired. In that perioud I had zero letters to the editor and over 300 stories filed. I continued writing for The Gazette after that under a pen name, Randy Renaud, who was my room-mater, a DJ at CHOM-FM and often went to the races. I even used to send him to Winnipeg his hometown as the Evian team manager for the Cobblestone Classic. Randy also had a Master Degree in English Lit. and actually did write a couple of those Gazette reports under his own name.

In 1998 I covered the Quebec Ice Racing (car) championships for The Gazette for two months across Quebec. I actually attended the events.

I do not care about your soccer coverage. I have never seen it so I cannot comment.

Your TV cycling coverage was good I have stated that in many places. While you were doing it I even sent you a congratulatory note or two. We both know Louis Bertrand helped a lot, too.

If your journalism pedigree is so excellent, why do you gloss over the fact that you blather off on Pedal's forums about Symmetrics based on what you now admit is [censored] information? For a guy willing to wax long & hard about journalism experience, seems like a pretty elementary faux-pas. you've [censored] enough about others not knowing anything when they write: do you apply the same standards to yourself?

Nice to know we both have experience outside cycling: you covered the ice racing championships for the Gazette for two weeks, and I did four years of soccer broadcasts for networks like Fox Sports. Must seem about even on the ol' Ed scale.

Uboat said:

If you are as a good a journalist or employee as you say, then Patrick must be a helluva conman-the devil himself-in order to convince your employers to fire you.

No no, it's perfectly true that I got him "fired" at The Gazette (inasmuch as a freelancer who submits mainly 75-word unbylined briefs can be fired): I got sick of reading teeny little race reports that carefully mentioned where all the Evian riders placed but scracely mentioned the winner (I remember one that actually forgot to mention the winner, though I'm willing to blame a copy editor). So I called them on the conflict of interest, which seemed clear enough to me.

The rest of the firings Ed was more than able to manage himself.