Tandem questions - re. the bike I just bought

[Eric Rayl]

I just picked up a tandem at an estate sale, and I'd appreciate any feedback and advice on some
questions below. Thanks in advance to anyone with the patience to wade through this, and feel free
to comment on anything. Here's what I got:

It's a Rodriguez 26" wheel steel bike, 9 years old, right now set up as a mountain tandem (straight
bars) but with slicks. I'm going to use it exclusively on the road. It has to have less than 500
miles on it, absolutely mint condition.

Wheels: 36 spoke mavic M6CD rims on Phil hubs, cassette 7 speed. Rear axle has socket head cap
screws instead of a QR skewer, I assume to make the axle stronger? Drivetrain: Specialized 175
cranks F and R, unknown bottom brackets, 28, 38, 52 chainrings. Derailleurs, shifters, cassette:
Suntour XC Pro, cassette is 13-30 Headset: 1-1/8", unknown brand Fork: Rodriguez, straight blades
with round (not oval) section Front brake: IRD U-brake Rear brake: IRD rotary brake (kinda like a
Suntour roller-cam but with a big rolling cam between the arms

It will fit my wife and I well with a few stem, handlebar, and seatpost changes. The current posts
have no setback(I think they are IRD also), and the effective top tubes are 21.5" and 29", so this
seems a bit unorthodox being a bit short in front and long in the back. Anyway, it's a little too
upright for both of us but easily fixed.

Questions: Are there better brakes these days that will fit u-brake positioned bosses, or is what I
have just fine for road riding? Brake pads are kool-stop, anything tandemers consider to be better?
Are 36 spoke wheels likely to be adequate (175 and 140-lb riders)? I notice a lot of road tandems
are using 40 spokes, at least with 700c wheels. Will the chainrings + cassette be fine for road
riding, or should I up the middle and large chainrings a few teeth? Any other items I should check,
be aware of, or worry about? Are there any tandem specific forums this would be better aimed at?

Thanks! Eric Rayl Woodinville, WA

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Eric Rayl wrote:

> I just picked up a tandem at an estate sale, and I'd appreciate any feedback and advice on some
> questions below. Thanks in advance to anyone with the patience to wade through this, and feel free
> to comment on anything. Here's what I got:
>
> It's a Rodriguez 26" wheel steel bike, 9 years old, right now set up as a mountain tandem
> (straight bars) but with slicks. I'm going to use it exclusively on the road. It has to have less
> than 500 miles on it, absolutely mint condition.

Cool! Rodriguez tandems are highly regarded.

> Wheels: 36 spoke mavic M6CD rims on Phil hubs, cassette 7 speed.

Are you sure it's a cassette? My guess is a freewheel.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.if you're not certain.

> axle has socket head cap screws instead of a QR skewer, I assume to make the axle stronger?
> Drivetrain: Specialized 175 cranks F and R, unknown bottom brackets, 28, 38, 52 chainrings.
> Derailleurs, shifters, cassette: Suntour XC Pro, cassette is 13-30 Headset: 1-1/8", unknown
> brand Fork: Rodriguez, straight blades with round (not oval) section Front brake: IRD U-brake
> Rear brake: IRD rotary brake (kinda like a Suntour roller-cam but with a big rolling cam between
> the arms
>
> It will fit my wife and I well with a few stem, handlebar, and seatpost changes. The current posts
> have no setback(I think they are IRD also), and the effective top tubes are 21.5" and 29", so this
> seems a bit unorthodox being a bit short in front and long in the back. Anyway, it's a little too
> upright for both of us but easily fixed.

Tandems always have a longer rear top tube, because the rear stem points the opposite way, but 21.5
in front is, indeed short...strange to see that with the long cranks.
>
> Questions: Are there better brakes these days that will fit u-brake positioned bosses, or is
> what I have just fine for road riding? Brake pads are kool-stop, anything tandemers consider to
> be better?

The best are the _salmon_ colored Kool Stops, noticeably better than the other colors.

> Are 36 spoke wheels likely to be adequate (175 and 140-lb riders)? I notice a lot of road tandems
> are using 40 spokes, at least with 700c wheels.

With anything but Phil hubs, I'd be a bit nervous, but Phils are famous for their gentleness on
spokes. The thick flanges and radiussed spoke holes on Phil hubs make spoke breakage very unlikely.

> Will the chainrings + cassette be fine for road riding, or should I up the middle and large
> chainrings a few teeth?

Ride it a while before making a lot of changes like this. It also depends on the rear gear, the
terrain, and your riding style. Nobody can tell you what gears you need.

> Any other items I should check, be aware of, or worry about? Are there any tandem specific forums
> this would be better aimed at?

I have a buncha tandem stuff on my Website, see:

http://sheldonbrown.com/tandem

Sheldon "Times Two" Brown +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: | when he can't afford it, and
| when he can. --Mark Twain |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Nick Payne]

Sounds like a nice bike - if it was me I would just change what is necessary to get it to fit you
and then ride it as-is before you start changing wheels or gearing. I think the wheels should hold
up fine - tandem rear wheels are wider spacing and have less dish than single bike wheels (usually
no dish at all). Our 1987 vintage touring tandem also uses Mavic M6 36-hole 26" rims (on Bullseye
hubs). We've put a lot of kilometres on the wheels, including a fair bit of loaded cycle-camping
touring with around 70-80 lbs of luggage, and had zero problems. Our gearing on the tandem for
touring is pretty low at 46-34-24 with 13-32 7s freewheel. We use Shimano Deore U-brakes which have
been quite powerful enough. There is also an Arai drum brake on the rear hub but it only ever gets
used when coming down long winding mountain passes with a touring load when the rim brakes start to
fade due to getting hot.

The long rear top tube is necessary because the stokers handlebar stem projects backwards from the
front seatpost.

As for tandem-specific forums, there is the tandem@hobbes mailing list. You can find more
information about joining the list at http://www.bikelist.org and search the list archives at
http://catfood.phred.org/.

Nick

"Eric Rayl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just picked up a tandem at an estate sale, and I'd appreciate any feedback and advice on some
> questions below. Thanks in advance to anyone with the patience to wade through this, and feel free
> to comment on anything. Here's what I got:
>
> It's a Rodriguez 26" wheel steel bike, 9 years old, right now set up as a mountain tandem
> (straight bars) but with slicks. I'm going to use it exclusively on the road. It has to have less
> than 500 miles on it, absolutely mint condition.
>
> Wheels: 36 spoke mavic M6CD rims on Phil hubs, cassette 7 speed. Rear axle has socket head cap
> screws instead of a QR skewer, I assume to make the axle stronger? Drivetrain: Specialized 175
> cranks F and R, unknown bottom brackets, 28, 38, 52 chainrings. Derailleurs, shifters, cassette:
> Suntour XC Pro, cassette is 13-30 Headset: 1-1/8", unknown brand Fork: Rodriguez, straight blades
> with round (not oval) section Front brake: IRD U-brake Rear brake: IRD rotary brake (kinda like a
> Suntour roller-cam but with a big rolling cam between the arms
>
> It will fit my wife and I well with a few stem, handlebar, and seatpost changes. The current posts
> have no setback(I think they are IRD also), and the effective top tubes are 21.5" and 29", so this
> seems a bit unorthodox being a bit short in front and long in the back. Anyway, it's a little too
> upright for both of us but easily fixed.
>
> Questions: Are there better brakes these days that will fit u-brake positioned bosses, or is what
> I have just fine for road riding? Brake pads are kool-stop, anything tandemers consider to be
> better? Are 36 spoke wheels likely to be adequate (175 and 140-lb riders)? I notice a lot of road
> tandems are using 40 spokes, at least with 700c wheels. Will the chainrings + cassette be fine for
> road riding, or should I up the middle and large chainrings a few teeth? Any other items I should
> check, be aware of, or worry about? Are there any tandem specific forums this would be better
> aimed at?

 

[A Muzi]

Eric Rayl wrote:

> I just picked up a tandem at an estate sale, and I'd appreciate any feedback and advice on some
> questions below. Thanks in advance to anyone with the patience to wade through this, and feel free
> to comment on anything. Here's what I got:
>
> It's a Rodriguez 26" wheel steel bike, 9 years old, right now set up as a mountain tandem
> (straight bars) but with slicks. I'm going to use it exclusively on the road. It has to have less
> than 500 miles on it, absolutely mint condition.
>
> Wheels: 36 spoke mavic M6CD rims on Phil hubs, cassette 7 speed. Rear axle has socket head cap
> screws instead of a QR skewer, I assume to make the axle stronger? Drivetrain: Specialized 175
> cranks F and R, unknown bottom brackets, 28, 38, 52 chainrings. Derailleurs, shifters, cassette:
> Suntour XC Pro, cassette is 13-30 Headset: 1-1/8", unknown brand Fork: Rodriguez, straight blades
> with round (not oval) section Front brake: IRD U-brake Rear brake: IRD rotary brake (kinda like a
> Suntour roller-cam but with a big rolling cam between the arms
>
> It will fit my wife and I well with a few stem, handlebar, and seatpost changes. The current posts
> have no setback(I think they are IRD also), and the effective top tubes are 21.5" and 29", so this
> seems a bit unorthodox being a bit short in front and long in the back. Anyway, it's a little too
> upright for both of us but easily fixed.
>
> Questions: Are there better brakes these days that will fit u-brake positioned bosses, or is what
> I have just fine for road riding? Brake pads are kool-stop, anything tandemers consider to be
> better? Are 36 spoke wheels likely to be adequate (175 and 140-lb riders)? I notice a lot of road
> tandems are using 40 spokes, at least with 700c wheels. Will the chainrings + cassette be fine for
> road riding, or should I up the middle and large chainrings a few teeth? Any other items I should
> check, be aware of, or worry about? Are there any tandem specific forums this would be better
> aimed at?

Such a nice machine! You should just ride together as much as possible ( communication is many times
more important than equipmment in tandeming), even/especially on short rides impusively. Just get
used to each other and the bike.

Angel and I were very close at one time and I have all the world of respect for him and his designs.
Ditto the new owner, Estelle, who's an ex-Madison cyclist.

I might not have built that machine with those parts ( OK, I defintely would not have) but
everything's of good quality and unless you have an actual complaint or problem, I'd just ride it.

Stoker top tubes compared to single bike top tubes are sort of like a bank's accounts compared to
ours - everything is in reverse! Long rear top tubes are very desirable and you'll agree soon. There
isn't enough love to cover having one's face touching someone else's back for a hundred miles.

Twenty-inch bikes use ABrakes which are the modern brake with that mount. If you should become
unhappy with your brakes later on there are alternates. I guess I feel the same way about the other
equipment questions. Ride it and if it doesn't do what you need then change it.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Jay Beattie]

"Eric Rayl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just picked up a tandem at an estate sale, and I'd appreciate any feedback and advice on some
> questions below. Thanks in advance to anyone with the patience to wade through this, and feel free
> to comment on anything. Here's what I got:
>
> It's a Rodriguez 26" wheel steel bike, 9 years old, right now set up as a mountain tandem
> (straight bars) but with slicks. I'm going to use it exclusively on the road. It has to have less
> than 500 miles on it, absolutely mint condition.
>
> Wheels: 36 spoke mavic M6CD rims on Phil hubs, cassette 7 speed. Rear axle has socket head cap
> screws instead of a QR skewer, I assume to make the axle stronger? Drivetrain: Specialized 175
> cranks F and R, unknown bottom brackets, 28, 38, 52 chainrings. Derailleurs, shifters, cassette:
> Suntour XC Pro, cassette is 13-30 Headset: 1-1/8", unknown brand Fork: Rodriguez, straight blades
> with round (not oval) section Front brake: IRD U-brake Rear brake: IRD rotary brake (kinda like a
> Suntour roller-cam but with a big rolling cam between the arms
>
> It will fit my wife and I well with a few stem, handlebar, and seatpost changes. The current posts
> have no setback(I think they are IRD also), and the effective top tubes are 21.5" and 29", so this
> seems a bit unorthodox being a bit short in front and long in the back. Anyway, it's a little too
> upright for both of us but easily fixed.
>
> Questions: Are there better brakes these days that will fit u-brake positioned bosses, or is what
> I have just fine for road riding? Brake pads are kool-stop, anything tandemers consider to be
> better? Are 36 spoke wheels likely to be adequate (175 and 140-lb riders)? I notice a lot of road
> tandems are using 40 spokes, at least with 700c wheels. Will the chainrings + cassette be fine for
> road riding, or should I up the middle and large chainrings a few teeth? Any other items I should
> check, be aware of, or worry about? Are there any tandem specific forums this would be better
> aimed at?

Get some fenders . . . or this year, pontoons. -- Jay Beattie.

 

[Snake]

IF it fits her, let your wife ride in the front!!! That way, you have a less flexible bb to put
those big quads to work. Much more efficient. Snake (remoove the dashes in dot com)

"Eric Rayl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just picked up a tandem at an estate sale, and I'd appreciate any feedback and advice on some
> questions below. Thanks in advance to anyone with the patience to wade through this, and feel free
> to comment on anything. Here's what I got:
>
> It's a Rodriguez 26" wheel steel bike, 9 years old, right now set up as a mountain tandem
> (straight bars) but with slicks. I'm going to use it exclusively on the road. It has to have less
> than 500 miles on it, absolutely mint condition.
>
> Wheels: 36 spoke mavic M6CD rims on Phil hubs, cassette 7 speed. Rear axle has socket head cap
> screws instead of a QR skewer, I assume to make the axle stronger? Drivetrain: Specialized 175
> cranks F and R, unknown bottom brackets, 28, 38, 52 chainrings. Derailleurs, shifters, cassette:
> Suntour XC Pro, cassette is 13-30 Headset: 1-1/8", unknown brand Fork: Rodriguez, straight blades
> with round (not oval) section Front brake: IRD U-brake Rear brake: IRD rotary brake (kinda like a
> Suntour roller-cam but with a big rolling cam between the arms
>
> It will fit my wife and I well with a few stem, handlebar, and seatpost changes. The current posts
> have no setback(I think they are IRD also), and the effective top tubes are 21.5" and 29", so this
> seems a bit unorthodox being a bit short in front and long in the back. Anyway, it's a little too
> upright for both of us but easily fixed.
>
> Questions: Are there better brakes these days that will fit u-brake positioned bosses, or is what
> I have just fine for road riding? Brake pads are kool-stop, anything tandemers consider to be
> better? Are 36 spoke wheels likely to be adequate (175 and 140-lb riders)? I notice a lot of road
> tandems are using 40 spokes, at least with 700c wheels. Will the chainrings + cassette be fine for
> road riding, or should I up the middle and large chainrings a few teeth? Any other items I should
> check, be aware of, or worry about? Are there any tandem specific forums this would be better
> aimed at?
>
> Thanks! Eric Rayl Woodinville, WA

 

[Marten Hoffmann]

[email protected] schreef ...

> Questions: Are there better brakes these days that will fit u-brake positioned bosses, or is what
> I have just fine for road riding?

AFAIK, Magura HS-33 can be made to fit U-brake bosses by turning around the bits that hold the brake
cylinders.

> Brake pads are kool-stop, anything tandemers consider to be better? Are 36 spoke wheels likely to
> be adequate (175 and 140-lb riders)? I notice a lot of road tandems are using 40 spokes, at least
> with 700c wheels.

With 700c wheels this is wise, with 26" wheels 36 spokes are sufficient. We are a tad lighter at
155/135 lbs, but in the last 13 years of tandeming we had only some 5 spoke breakages. 3 of which on
the same rim that later turned out to be faulty at the spoke holes! We also ride off- road quite a
bit. With the Rohloff hub, tandems even ride on 32-spoke wheels without much trouble.

> Will the chainrings + cassette be fine for road riding, or should I up the middle and large
> chainrings a few teeth?

Try it. We ride 48/36/24 with an 11/32 cassette and are very content with it. It all depends on the
speed you wish to ride at and the available "legforce".

--
Regards, Marten

 

[Bruce]

> > Brake pads are kool-stop, anything tandemers consider to be better? Are 36 spoke wheels likely
> > to be adequate (175 and 140-lb riders)? I notice a lot of road tandems are using 40 spokes, at
> > least with 700c wheels.
>

So much depends on your riding style, quality of wheel buld, tire size, rim strength and depth.

Having said that, I use 32 2.0/1.8 DB spokes w/ medium dish rims (early design = heavy, Campy Sydney
2000), 700x28 or wider tires.

For your use try Velocity Deep V

-Bruce

 

[B.C. Cletta]

> Are 36 spoke wheels likely to be adequate (175 and 140-lb riders)?

wouldn't that depend on the type of tires you're using? for 26-in wheels you can get slicks in
1.0 up to 1.9. my guess is that the former will wipe out the wheels within blocks of your house
and the later will get you across the country a few times. i've used 1.25 with my 26-in wheeled
tandem, 36h, even a little dirtroad use, and we lived to tell about it. what i like about 26-in
wheel tandems is that you can run normal readily available 36h MTB stuff.