Tandem sizing, short captain and tall stoker

[Antti Salonen]

I've been looking into tandems, mostly because riding with my girlfriend
would be a lot nicer if we could both get good exercise while doing it.
Because I have a more riding experience, better technique and a lot more
upper and lower body strength (and perhaps a fragile ego), we both very
much agree that I should be the captain.

The problem is this: I'm 5'7", 30.5" inseam, she is 5'11", 34.5" inseam.
Both are about 135 lbs, so the total weight is pretty low. Are all
stock tandems out of the question?

And even with a custom frame, I'm guessing that getting the stoker's
handlebar low enough will be difficult, especially with the captain's
saddle already a lot lower than the stoker's. I'm also wondering about
the stoker's cockpit length. If you use a stoker stem that raises the
handlebar behind the captains saddle (instead of below), the cockpit
would become even shorter. With a big frame it might work, but then
getting the captain's handlebar low enough would probably be difficult.

Advice?

-as

 

[Mark Hickey]

Antti Salonen <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've been looking into tandems, mostly because riding with my girlfriend
>would be a lot nicer if we could both get good exercise while doing it.
>Because I have a more riding experience, better technique and a lot more
>upper and lower body strength (and perhaps a fragile ego), we both very
>much agree that I should be the captain.
>
>The problem is this: I'm 5'7", 30.5" inseam, she is 5'11", 34.5" inseam.
>Both are about 135 lbs, so the total weight is pretty low. Are all
>stock tandems out of the question?
>
>And even with a custom frame, I'm guessing that getting the stoker's
>handlebar low enough will be difficult, especially with the captain's
>saddle already a lot lower than the stoker's.

That's usually not much of an issue, since the stoker's stem is
fastened to your seatpost, and has plenty of vertical adjustment
(plus, they angle upward). If her bars need to be higher than your
saddle, you could have a problem.

> I'm also wondering about
>the stoker's cockpit length. If you use a stoker stem that raises the
>handlebar behind the captains saddle (instead of below), the cockpit
>would become even shorter. With a big frame it might work, but then
>getting the captain's handlebar low enough would probably be difficult.

Depends on how low you ride your bars. You would want a bike with a
longish (relatively speaking) rear cockpit. Some twofers have fairly
hoirzontal top tubes, and as long as your stoker doesn't need the bars
any higher than (approximately) your saddle, you should be fine.

To get it perfect, you'd probably have to go custom, which isn't all
that much more expensive than a "stock" tandem (on a percentage basis
at least).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

 

[[email protected]]

Antti Salonen wrote:
> I've been looking into tandems, mostly because riding with my girlfriend
> would be a lot nicer if we could both get good exercise while doing it.
> Because I have a more riding experience, better technique and a lot more
> upper and lower body strength (and perhaps a fragile ego), we both very
> much agree that I should be the captain.
>
> The problem is this: I'm 5'7", 30.5" inseam, she is 5'11", 34.5" inseam.
> Both are about 135 lbs, so the total weight is pretty low. Are all
> stock tandems out of the question?
>
> And even with a custom frame, I'm guessing that getting the stoker's
> handlebar low enough will be difficult, especially with the captain's
> saddle already a lot lower than the stoker's. I'm also wondering about
> the stoker's cockpit length. If you use a stoker stem that raises the
> handlebar behind the captains saddle (instead of below), the cockpit
> would become even shorter. With a big frame it might work, but then
> getting the captain's handlebar low enough would probably be difficult.
>
> Advice?
>
> -as

In my very limited stoker riding experience, I'd say you need a custom
or a very high end tandem that already builds in a very long stoker top
tube on all frames. I'm 5'11" and have ridden stoker on a first model
year Cannondale tandem. I was extremely cramped, forced to sit very
upright, and the stoker bars were as far forward as possible so my
hands were rubbing the captain's **** on every pedal stroke. I've
ridden stoker on a Co-Motion Big Al large size frame and there was
enough room for the stoker. But still shorter than what I use on my
single bikes. And Co-Motion supposedly builds in long stoker top tubes
on their frames. Particularly a large frame.

 

[Antti Salonen]

[email protected] wrote:

> In my very limited stoker riding experience, I'd say you need a custom
> or a very high end tandem that already builds in a very long stoker top
> tube on all frames. I'm 5'11" and have ridden stoker on a first model
> year Cannondale tandem. I was extremely cramped, forced to sit very
> upright, and the stoker bars were as far forward as possible so my
> hands were rubbing the captain's **** on every pedal stroke. I've
> ridden stoker on a Co-Motion Big Al large size frame and there was
> enough room for the stoker. But still shorter than what I use on my
> single bikes. And Co-Motion supposedly builds in long stoker top tubes
> on their frames. Particularly a large frame.

I'm guessing it comes down to three issues:

1) Getting the stoker's handlebar high enough. When the captains
saddle is 3" lower than the stoker's it's tight but should be doable
with a flat bar.

2) Getting the stoker's cockpit long enough. This is obviously possible
with a large frame.

3) Getting enough crotch clearance for the captain.

I'm guessing that 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive without custom
geometry. In addition, I'd like to have my drop bars at least an inch
below saddle level, so with a large frame that would be difficult.

-as

 

[Mark Janeba]

Antti Salonen wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>>In my very limited stoker riding experience, I'd say you need a custom
>>or a very high end tandem that already builds in a very long stoker top
>>tube on all frames. I'm 5'11" and have ridden stoker on a first model
>>year Cannondale tandem. I was extremely cramped, forced to sit very
>>upright, and the stoker bars were as far forward as possible so my
>>hands were rubbing the captain's **** on every pedal stroke. I've
>>ridden stoker on a Co-Motion Big Al large size frame and there was
>>enough room for the stoker. But still shorter than what I use on my
>>single bikes. And Co-Motion supposedly builds in long stoker top tubes
>>on their frames. Particularly a large frame.
>
>
> I'm guessing it comes down to three issues:
>
> 1) Getting the stoker's handlebar high enough. When the captains
> saddle is 3" lower than the stoker's it's tight but should be doable
> with a flat bar.
>
> 2) Getting the stoker's cockpit long enough. This is obviously possible
> with a large frame.
>
> 3) Getting enough crotch clearance for the captain.
>
> I'm guessing that 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive without custom
> geometry. In addition, I'd like to have my drop bars at least an inch
> below saddle level, so with a large frame that would be difficult.

If the stoker has sufficient upper body strength, you could just arrange
that the stoker puts a foot down at stops and the captain stays up
(revere of the typical arrangement). Then (3) is much less of an issue,
though it's an awkward compromise.

As I've posted before, I've seen this done with a blind father with his
much smaller son captaining - seemed to work for them, but of course
they had much more compelling need given how small the son was.

Mark

 

[A Muzi]

Antti Salonen wrote:
> I've been looking into tandems, mostly because riding with my girlfriend
> would be a lot nicer if we could both get good exercise while doing it.
> Because I have a more riding experience, better technique and a lot more
> upper and lower body strength (and perhaps a fragile ego), we both very
> much agree that I should be the captain.
>
> The problem is this: I'm 5'7", 30.5" inseam, she is 5'11", 34.5" inseam.
> Both are about 135 lbs, so the total weight is pretty low. Are all
> stock tandems out of the question?
>
> And even with a custom frame, I'm guessing that getting the stoker's
> handlebar low enough will be difficult, especially with the captain's
> saddle already a lot lower than the stoker's. I'm also wondering about
> the stoker's cockpit length. If you use a stoker stem that raises the
> handlebar behind the captains saddle (instead of below), the cockpit
> would become even shorter. With a big frame it might work, but then
> getting the captain's handlebar low enough would probably be difficult.

Consider a 'hi-rise' stoker bar rather than a low 'stoker' bar:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/SANTFLOP.JPG
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/SANTFLIP.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Antti Salonen wrote:
> I've been looking into tandems, mostly because riding with my girlfriend
> would be a lot nicer if we could both get good exercise while doing it.
> Because I have a more riding experience, better technique and a lot more
> upper and lower body strength (and perhaps a fragile ego), we both very
> much agree that I should be the captain.
>
> The problem is this: I'm 5'7", 30.5" inseam, she is 5'11", 34.5" inseam.
> Both are about 135 lbs, so the total weight is pretty low. Are all
> stock tandems out of the question?
>
> And even with a custom frame, I'm guessing that getting the stoker's
> handlebar low enough will be difficult, especially with the captain's
> saddle already a lot lower than the stoker's. I'm also wondering about
> the stoker's cockpit length. If you use a stoker stem that raises the
> handlebar behind the captains saddle (instead of below), the cockpit
> would become even shorter. With a big frame it might work, but then
> getting the captain's handlebar low enough would probably be difficult.
>
> Advice?

See <http://www.geocities.com/rcgilmore3/FlevoB_B.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman

 

[David Damerell]

Quoting Antti Salonen <[email protected]>:
>I've been looking into tandems, mostly because riding with my girlfriend
>would be a lot nicer if we could both get good exercise while doing it.
>Because I have a more riding experience, better technique and a lot more
>upper and lower body strength (and perhaps a fragile ego), we both very
>much agree that I should be the captain.
>The problem is this: I'm 5'7", 30.5" inseam, she is 5'11", 34.5" inseam.

My stoker is about two or three inches taller than me, but we still agreed
I would be the captain for much the same reason. We bought a second-hand
1980s tandem on eBay - luckily, from someone who lived 2 miles from me.
Frames of this vintage often have level top tubes and so are much more
suitable for taller stokers.

Our stoker bars are inverted drop handlebars. The stoker cockpit is pretty
tight - we had to abandon the idea of mounting a map there, for example -
but not impossible.

I also recommend you use shorter cranks. Then more of the difference in
your girlfriend's height will be in her feet being lower at the bottom of
the stroke.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?
Today is Gloucesterday, February.