tandem suspension

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Joshua Goldberg, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell seats?

    Am having a tandem tadpole built (similar to the Stein Magnum) but with side
    rails like the MASA Slingshot, but and am using 2 hardshell seats from
    Optima (Baron seats). The wife and I will both be clipped into our egg
    beaters....so I'd think having the seats moving around too much might mess
    with our pedaling a bit. Thing is though, me thinks using simple elastomer
    rings with maybe 10mm of travel to cushion the seats and minimize road
    vibration is the way to go.

    Other problem/confusion is we will be pulling a trailer 32" W. by 72" L. and
    it will be heavy. If we opt for a rear swing arm, all that trailer weight
    would likely keep the swing arm suspension pushed down all the
    time...removing any benefit from it and thus making seat suspension look
    better.

    The tandem will have a fiberglass nose cone and the trailer will have a
    fiberglass body (looks like a wide Thule).
     
    Tags:


  2. Al Luminium

    Al Luminium Guest

    "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Joshua Goldberg wrote:
    >
    >> Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    >> suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell
    >> seats?
    >>

    snip>
    > As for rear suspension and a trailer, why not kill two birds with one
    > stone? Use a jackshaft at the pivot (e.g. Dragonflyer) to eliminate pogo
    > from pedaling forces, and design the trailer hitch to attach to the pivot.
    > (Of course, use the largest reasonably practical industrial quality
    > bearings for the jackshaft/pivot and brace/gusset their supports well.)
    >
    > --
    > Tom Sherman - Earth
    >

    Tom, that's an interesting suggestion for a no pogo rear swingarm, but I
    think an argument can be made to develop the seat support tube, which would
    probably be the upper shock mount into a trailer mast. By incorporating a
    high quality high torque rated spherical bearing and a long tongue hitch
    with enough arch to clear a rack pack and panniers when turning.

    Joshua, I saw a tandem Trice hanging from the ceiling at The Bike Rack. It's
    long. It's very long. You said the traler would be heavy. Will it be
    carrying batteries? maybe you should consider a drag brake system for the
    trailer too, so it can't overrun you in downhill turns. If the trike is rear
    wheel drive, you're probably going to have a huge meaty tire which will give
    you some cush too.



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  3. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Al Luminium wrote:

    > "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>Joshua Goldberg wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    >>>suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell
    >>>seats?
    >>>

    >
    > snip>
    >
    >>As for rear suspension and a trailer, why not kill two birds with one
    >>stone? Use a jackshaft at the pivot (e.g. Dragonflyer) to eliminate pogo
    >>from pedaling forces, and design the trailer hitch to attach to the pivot.
    >>(Of course, use the largest reasonably practical industrial quality
    >>bearings for the jackshaft/pivot and brace/gusset their supports well.)

    >
    > Tom, that's an interesting suggestion for a no pogo rear swingarm, but I
    > think an argument can be made to develop the seat support tube, which would
    > probably be the upper shock mount into a trailer mast. By incorporating a
    > high quality high torque rated spherical bearing and a long tongue hitch
    > with enough arch to clear a rack pack and panniers when turning.


    This would also work on a Dragonflyer [1], but I would suggest a large
    diameter, thick wall tube to resist "Wile E. Coyote" level stresses.

    > Joshua, I saw a tandem Trice hanging from the ceiling at The Bike Rack. It's
    > long. It's very long. You said the traler would be heavy. Will it be
    > carrying batteries? maybe you should consider a drag brake system for the
    > trailer too, so it can't overrun you in downhill turns. If the trike is rear
    > wheel drive, you're probably going to have a huge meaty tire which will give
    > you some cush too.


    If the trailer is for power assist, it should be possible to use the
    motor connected to a resistor grid as a brake. This is commonly done on
    diesel-electric hybrid locomotives and off-road haul trucks.

    [1] See <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df3.jpg>.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth
     
  4. Al Luminium

    Al Luminium Guest

    "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Al Luminium wrote:
    >
    >> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>
    >>>Joshua Goldberg wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    >>>>suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell
    >>>>seats?
    >>>>

    >>
    >> snip>
    >>
    >>>As for rear suspension and a trailer, why not kill two birds with one
    >>>stone? Use a jackshaft at the pivot (e.g. Dragonflyer) to eliminate pogo
    >>>from pedaling forces, and design the trailer hitch to attach to the
    >>>pivot. (Of course, use the largest reasonably practical industrial
    >>>quality bearings for the jackshaft/pivot and brace/gusset their supports
    >>>well.)

    >>
    >> Tom, that's an interesting suggestion for a no pogo rear swingarm, but I
    >> think an argument can be made to develop the seat support tube, which
    >> would probably be the upper shock mount into a trailer mast. By
    >> incorporating a high quality high torque rated spherical bearing and a
    >> long tongue hitch with enough arch to clear a rack pack and panniers when
    >> turning.

    >
    > This would also work on a Dragonflyer [1], but I would suggest a large
    > diameter, thick wall tube to resist "Wile E. Coyote" level stresses.
    >
    >> Joshua, I saw a tandem Trice hanging from the ceiling at The Bike Rack.
    >> It's long. It's very long. You said the traler would be heavy. Will it be
    >> carrying batteries? maybe you should consider a drag brake system for the
    >> trailer too, so it can't overrun you in downhill turns. If the trike is
    >> rear wheel drive, you're probably going to have a huge meaty tire which
    >> will give you some cush too.

    >
    > If the trailer is for power assist, it should be possible to use the motor
    > connected to a resistor grid as a brake. This is commonly done on
    > diesel-electric hybrid locomotives and off-road haul trucks.
    >
    > [1] See <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df3.jpg>.
    >
    > --
    > Tom Sherman - Earth
    >


    If the trailer has the motor, it should become the tractor and the trike
    should be the trailer. A pusher motor system would probably be a deadly bad
    design.



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  5. Al Luminium

    Al Luminium Guest

    "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Al Luminium wrote:
    >
    >> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>
    >>>Joshua Goldberg wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Anyone care to offer an opinion on which makes more sense, to have
    >>>>suspension on all 3 wheels or have suspension beneath the 2 hardshell
    >>>>seats?
    >>>>

    >>
    >> snip>
    >>
    >>>As for rear suspension and a trailer, why not kill two birds with one
    >>>stone? Use a jackshaft at the pivot (e.g. Dragonflyer) to eliminate pogo
    >>>from pedaling forces, and design the trailer hitch to attach to the
    >>>pivot. (Of course, use the largest reasonably practical industrial
    >>>quality bearings for the jackshaft/pivot and brace/gusset their supports
    >>>well.)

    >>
    >> Tom, that's an interesting suggestion for a no pogo rear swingarm, but I
    >> think an argument can be made to develop the seat support tube, which
    >> would probably be the upper shock mount into a trailer mast. By
    >> incorporating a high quality high torque rated spherical bearing and a
    >> long tongue hitch with enough arch to clear a rack pack and panniers when
    >> turning.

    >
    > This would also work on a Dragonflyer [1], but I would suggest a large
    > diameter, thick wall tube to resist "Wile E. Coyote" level stresses.
    >
    >> Joshua, I saw a tandem Trice hanging from the ceiling at The Bike Rack.
    >> It's long. It's very long. You said the traler would be heavy. Will it be
    >> carrying batteries? maybe you should consider a drag brake system for the
    >> trailer too, so it can't overrun you in downhill turns. If the trike is
    >> rear wheel drive, you're probably going to have a huge meaty tire which
    >> will give you some cush too.

    >
    > If the trailer is for power assist, it should be possible to use the motor
    > connected to a resistor grid as a brake. This is commonly done on
    > diesel-electric hybrid locomotives and off-road haul trucks.
    >
    > [1] See <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df3.jpg>.
    >
    > --
    > Tom Sherman - Earth
    >


    If the trailer has the motor, it should become the tractor and the trike
    should be the trailer. A pusher motor system would probably be a deadly bad
    design.



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  6. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Al Luminium wrote:

    > If the trailer has the motor, it should become the tractor and the trike
    > should be the trailer. A pusher motor system would probably be a deadly bad
    > design.


    I have seen pictures of several power assist trailers, but have not
    actually witnessed any in use.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth
     
  7. Steve Knight

    Steve Knight Guest

  8. Steve Knight

    Steve Knight Guest


    >Nothing against the Pantour hub, but there a couple of issue for tandem
    >trike use. They would only work on the front of those few trikes that
    >use conventional double-sided mounted front wheels. The other is they
    >are not compatible with the Arai (or equivalent) drag brake,
    >necessitating the use of a third disc brake as a drag brake, which has
    >several disadvantages compared to the Arai for the specialized application.


    they do have a single sided hubs for trikes. but the drag brake that they don't
    have.

    --
    Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
    Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
    See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
     
  9. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Steve Knight wrote:

    >
    >>Nothing against the Pantour hub, but there a couple of issue for tandem
    >>trike use. They would only work on the front of those few trikes that
    >>use conventional double-sided mounted front wheels. The other is they
    >>are not compatible with the Arai (or equivalent) drag brake,
    >>necessitating the use of a third disc brake as a drag brake, which has
    >>several disadvantages compared to the Arai for the specialized application.

    >
    >
    > they do have a single sided hubs for trikes. but the drag brake that they don't
    > have.


    I finally found the single-sided hub - there seems to be a temporary
    problem with broken links or possibly Mozilla browser compatibility on
    the Pantour website.

    Only being available in 32 holes drilling does seem to be a
    disadvantage, as I would seriously consider more spokes and/or heavier
    rims on a tandem trike loaded for touring. Pantour should consider
    making 36 and 48 hole high flange versions.

    The range of motion of the Pantour is small enough that is might reduce
    the number of issues that occur when using suspension on a multi-track
    vehicle.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Earth
     
  10. Al Luminium wrote:

    > Josh, HPvelotechnik says no trailers.


    They've changed their minds on this one, though only the Streetmachine seems
    to be happy with single-wheel trailers.

    --

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    World Domination?
    Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
    floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)
     
  11. Al Luminium

    Al Luminium Guest

    "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Al Luminium wrote:
    >
    >> Josh, HPvelotechnik says no trailers.

    >
    > They've changed their minds on this one, though only the Streetmachine
    > seems
    > to be happy with single-wheel trailers.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    > World Domination?
    > Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
    > floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)
    >
    >

    Wait, wait....you mean I read that 60 page manual and they went and changed
    the bloody instructions?



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  12. Al Luminium wrote:

    > Wait, wait....you mean I read that 60 page manual and they went and
    > changed
    > the bloody instructions?


    So it would appear, but they might have changed something in the design /
    manufacture - beefier pivot bolts or something. Certainly my Speedmachine -
    frame built in late 2000 - considered trailers to be /streng verboten/. I
    hae towed a lightly-laden BoB with it, but you won't tell anyone, will you?

    --

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    World Domination?
    Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
    floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)
     
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