TdF 2006

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It will be interesting to see whether Ullrich beats Basso next year

.....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or

Quoted message said:

maybe Vino will go all out and attack .... who else might win ??

If the organizers have two ITT's then Ullrich will annihilate Basso.

The organizers had two ITTs this year ... And last I checked, Ullrich

didn't

Quoted message said:

annihilate Basso.

He definitely will need more than the addition of a 19km prologue to put
more time on Basso (obviously). I'm an Ullrich hold out. He still has one
more Tour win in his legs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It will be interesting to see whether Ullrich beats Basso next year

.....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or

Quoted message said:

maybe Vino will go all out and attack .... who else might win ??

If the organizers have two ITT's then Ullrich will annihilate Basso.

The organizers had two ITTs this year ... And last I checked, Ullrich

didn't

Quoted message said:

annihilate Basso.

He definitely will need more than the addition of a 19km prologue to put
more time on Basso (obviously). I'm an Ullrich hold out. He still has one
more Tour win in his legs.

RJG said:

Lance was clear after that stage that he did not consider Vino a threat and
was more interested in marking Ullrich. Lance felt he could make up any time
on Vino in the last ITT.

this is an aside, but any time? i don't think you meant to be so
extreme. i doubt lance would have let vino gain 10 minutes at that
point. as to the chase, he tried to make ullrich do the work, but then
he helped to chase vino down on the down hill finish. ullrich says,
"When Vinokourov attacked, I asked Armstrong to share the work in
chasing, but he refused. It was only on the descent of the Peyresourde
that he started pulling."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jul03/jul21news2

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14 (as they had already
had one tt in which lance could gauge his closest competitors' fitness).
like i said, i agree mostly with trg's comment about the apples/oranges
comparison. but i still think vino had a good performance and wasn't
given as much as free rein like virenque when he was going for the king
of the mountains jersey.
h

RJG said:

Lance was clear after that stage that he did not consider Vino a threat and
was more interested in marking Ullrich. Lance felt he could make up any time
on Vino in the last ITT.

this is an aside, but any time? i don't think you meant to be so
extreme. i doubt lance would have let vino gain 10 minutes at that
point. as to the chase, he tried to make ullrich do the work, but then
he helped to chase vino down on the down hill finish. ullrich says,
"When Vinokourov attacked, I asked Armstrong to share the work in
chasing, but he refused. It was only on the descent of the Peyresourde
that he started pulling."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jul03/jul21news2

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14 (as they had already
had one tt in which lance could gauge his closest competitors' fitness).
like i said, i agree mostly with trg's comment about the apples/oranges
comparison. but i still think vino had a good performance and wasn't
given as much as free rein like virenque when he was going for the king
of the mountains jersey.
h

RJG said:

Lance was clear after that stage that he did not consider Vino a threat and
was more interested in marking Ullrich. Lance felt he could make up any time
on Vino in the last ITT.

this is an aside, but any time? i don't think you meant to be so
extreme. i doubt lance would have let vino gain 10 minutes at that
point. as to the chase, he tried to make ullrich do the work, but then
he helped to chase vino down on the down hill finish. ullrich says,
"When Vinokourov attacked, I asked Armstrong to share the work in
chasing, but he refused. It was only on the descent of the Peyresourde
that he started pulling."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jul03/jul21news2

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14 (as they had already
had one tt in which lance could gauge his closest competitors' fitness).
like i said, i agree mostly with trg's comment about the apples/oranges
comparison. but i still think vino had a good performance and wasn't
given as much as free rein like virenque when he was going for the king
of the mountains jersey.
h

RJG said:

Lance was clear after that stage that he did not consider Vino a threat and
was more interested in marking Ullrich. Lance felt he could make up any time
on Vino in the last ITT.

this is an aside, but any time? i don't think you meant to be so
extreme. i doubt lance would have let vino gain 10 minutes at that
point. as to the chase, he tried to make ullrich do the work, but then
he helped to chase vino down on the down hill finish. ullrich says,
"When Vinokourov attacked, I asked Armstrong to share the work in
chasing, but he refused. It was only on the descent of the Peyresourde
that he started pulling."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jul03/jul21news2

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14 (as they had already
had one tt in which lance could gauge his closest competitors' fitness).
like i said, i agree mostly with trg's comment about the apples/oranges
comparison. but i still think vino had a good performance and wasn't
given as much as free rein like virenque when he was going for the king
of the mountains jersey.
h

RJG said:

Lance was clear after that stage that he did not consider Vino a threat and
was more interested in marking Ullrich. Lance felt he could make up any time
on Vino in the last ITT.

this is an aside, but any time? i don't think you meant to be so
extreme. i doubt lance would have let vino gain 10 minutes at that
point. as to the chase, he tried to make ullrich do the work, but then
he helped to chase vino down on the down hill finish. ullrich says,
"When Vinokourov attacked, I asked Armstrong to share the work in
chasing, but he refused. It was only on the descent of the Peyresourde
that he started pulling."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jul03/jul21news2

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14 (as they had already
had one tt in which lance could gauge his closest competitors' fitness).
like i said, i agree mostly with trg's comment about the apples/oranges
comparison. but i still think vino had a good performance and wasn't
given as much as free rein like virenque when he was going for the king
of the mountains jersey.
h

RJG said:

Lance was clear after that stage that he did not consider Vino a threat and
was more interested in marking Ullrich. Lance felt he could make up any time
on Vino in the last ITT.

this is an aside, but any time? i don't think you meant to be so
extreme. i doubt lance would have let vino gain 10 minutes at that
point. as to the chase, he tried to make ullrich do the work, but then
he helped to chase vino down on the down hill finish. ullrich says,
"When Vinokourov attacked, I asked Armstrong to share the work in
chasing, but he refused. It was only on the descent of the Peyresourde
that he started pulling."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jul03/jul21news2

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14 (as they had already
had one tt in which lance could gauge his closest competitors' fitness).
like i said, i agree mostly with trg's comment about the apples/oranges
comparison. but i still think vino had a good performance and wasn't
given as much as free rein like virenque when he was going for the king
of the mountains jersey.
h

RJG said:

Lance was clear after that stage that he did not consider Vino a threat and
was more interested in marking Ullrich. Lance felt he could make up any time
on Vino in the last ITT.

this is an aside, but any time? i don't think you meant to be so
extreme. i doubt lance would have let vino gain 10 minutes at that
point. as to the chase, he tried to make ullrich do the work, but then
he helped to chase vino down on the down hill finish. ullrich says,
"When Vinokourov attacked, I asked Armstrong to share the work in
chasing, but he refused. It was only on the descent of the Peyresourde
that he started pulling."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jul03/jul21news2

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14 (as they had already
had one tt in which lance could gauge his closest competitors' fitness).
like i said, i agree mostly with trg's comment about the apples/oranges
comparison. but i still think vino had a good performance and wasn't
given as much as free rein like virenque when he was going for the king
of the mountains jersey.
h

trg said:

in 2003 (where
Lance was probably at his weakest, recovering from the Dauphiné crash in the
first part of the race, and then had his dehydration moment in the TT),

That crash was nothing, nothing compared to the 2 Ullrich had this year!
And much earlier too. I don't believe he still needed recovering from that
in the Tour, he hardly did in the Dauphiné. See
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/jun03/DauphineLibere03/?id=results/stage5

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trg said:

The problem with Vino is that he's just missing that little bit to be able
to stay with the best climbers on the toughest climbs. Were he a real
threat for the top podium step, he wouldn't be allowed to build up time in
breakaways. But who knows, he's TTing better than he ever has. Maybe he can
take his climbing up a notch too. I though he might have when he won on the
Ventoux in the Dauphiné, but seeing him get dropped by the top riders in the
tour, I think he's still missing that extra gear.

I do wonder what his tour form would be if his main aim and peak was the
tour, as at the moment he also peaks for the spring classics.

"h squared" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message
de news: [email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RJG said:

Lance was clear after that stage that he did not consider Vino a threat
and was more interested in marking Ullrich. Lance felt he could make up
any time on Vino in the last ITT.

this is an aside, but any time? i don't think you meant to be so extreme.
i doubt lance would have let vino gain 10 minutes at that point. as to the
chase, he tried to make ullrich do the work, but then he helped to chase
vino down on the down hill finish. ullrich says, "When Vinokourov
attacked, I asked Armstrong to share the work in chasing, but he refused.
It was only on the descent of the Peyresourde that he started pulling."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jul03/jul21news2

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14 (as they had already had
one tt in which lance could gauge his closest competitors' fitness). like
i said, i agree mostly with trg's comment about the apples/oranges
comparison. but i still think vino had a good performance and wasn't given
as much as free rein like virenque when he was going for the king of the
mountains jersey.
h

True, different length leashes for different riders.

h squared said:

Quoted message said:

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14

trg said:

True, different length leashes for different riders.

Surely you mean reins ?

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

h squared said:

Quoted message said:

fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap he
needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14

trg said:

True, different length leashes for different riders.

Surely you mean reins ?

No, I meant leash.

trg a écrit :

Quoted message said:

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

h squared said:

> fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
> marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
> within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gaphe
> needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14

trg said:

True, different length leashes for different riders.

Surely you mean reins ?

No, I meant leash.

Surely you meant lead?

-ilan

<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

trg a écrit :

Quoted message said:

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

h squared said:

> fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
> marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
> within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap
> he
> needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14

trg said:

True, different length leashes for different riders.

Surely you mean reins ?

No, I meant leash.

Surely you meant lead?

-ilan

The usage of leads is suggested for RBR contributors from the UK, especially
the kinky ones. 😉

trg said:

The problem with Vino is that he's just missing that little bit to be able
to stay with the best climbers on the toughest climbs.

Well, that's one problem for him. But I think his biggest problem
is that he's a year older next year and he's not at the age where
that makes him stronger. One of the things we learned this year
is that even though LANCE! seems resistant to this, he is not
immune.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

trg said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> True, different length leashes for different riders.

Donald Munro said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Surely you mean reins ?

trg said:

Quoted message said:

No, I meant leash.

ilan said:

Surely you meant lead?

trg said:

The usage of leads is suggested for RBR contributors from the UK, especially
the kinky ones. 😉

We have kinky contributors from the UK ?

I don't understand, I thought the whole interest was in who
takes the lead in a bike race. Outside bike racing, well, you
have Greg Lemond.

-ilan

trg a écrit :

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

trg a écrit :

Quoted message said:

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

h squared wrote:
>> fwiw, vino lost 1:42 to lance in the final tt. lance may not have been
>> marking vino the way he was marking ullrich, but he had to keep vino
>> within approx. 2:00 to win, and i'm sure he was aware of the time gap
>> he
>> needed to preserve by the time they rode stage 14

trg wrote:
> True, different length leashes for different riders.

Surely you mean reins ?

No, I meant leash.

Surely you meant lead?

-ilan

The usage of leads is suggested for RBR contributors from the UK, especially
the kinky ones. 😉

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The situation was a bit different in the cases of Merckx and Indurain, but
they had already been beaten before they stopped.

Benjo

Neither of them were beaten by someone who had ever been second behind them.
Riis was 3rd in 1995, so that might encourage Ullrich a bit.

How's this for a repeating history:

In 2006, Ullrich wins the tour before Basso and Leipheimer. It's a tense and
rather uneventful race except for an extremely high number of nasty falls
which take out a few competitors, like Mancebo, Landis and Cunego. 2006 will
be the last tour Ullrich wins. In 2007, Ullrich fails utterly and the tour
is a duel between Basso and a few climbers like Cunego and Rujano. First is
Basso, followed by Cunego and Rujano. Both years, Rasmussen wins the
polkadot jersey. The green jersey belongs to Boonen both these years. The
protour is won by Vinokourov in 2006 and Boonen in 2007.

In 2008, the [censored] hits the fan when a in a car from Liberty Seguros some
sophisticated equipment for autologous blood transfusions is found. It seems
that a procedure for storing, replicating and then re-injecting an athlete's
blood has been in use for several years now. Many riders abandon, among them
Rasmussen whose team completely folds because of a scandal, although Liberty
continues sponsorship for a few years. The tour is won by Cunego before
Basso and Tyler Hamilton (riding for Saunier Duval) . Boonen wins the green,
Chavanel the mountains classification. There is an incident when McEwen,
disappointed with not winning a stage that year and the year before, punches
Hamilton in the face in Paris.

2009 is a bit early, but the next few years the GC favorite will be called
[censored] Xeixu and he'll be from team Subaru. His main rivals will be Basso from
CSC, Cunego from DeLonghi-Liquigas, Dekker from TNT-Presto (with Veneberg as
DS), Popovych from Yukos, and Gilbert from Cofidis point com (with Bruyneel
as DS). Ullrich is DS for Yukos and much praised for his tactical insight,
although the tour eludes him every time except in 2011 (1. Popovych 2.Dekker
3.Cunego). The polkadot will go to Rasmussen a few times more, although
Vinokourov wins it in his final season, 2010. From the year 2012, there will
be medical preparation regulations which can be checked through a biological
passport system. Riders are allowed to 'recuperate' by using medicines and
blood transfusions which evens out the differences between some of the teams
and secures sponsorship deals. Sponsors know that if they invest in a big
talent, he'll probably win the tour at some point in his career because the
winner changes quite regularly and time differences are very small. The UCI
learns how the passport system can be used to ensure a surprise winner will
appear when needed. Armstrong's record isn't broken, but it is equalled by
[censored] Li in 2028, but he does not win his 7 tours consecutively. At that time
it is generally believed that racing was much more dangerous in the past
because it was without good medical supervision, so most people consider
Lance Armstrong to be better than Li. Luke Armstrong, keeper of his late
father's foundation and chairman of the UCI (after a short cycling career),
says he is not concerned with who is the best of all time and congratulates
Li with his incredible performance.