TdF announcement day

[Tom Schulenburg]

"Chris B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > >
> > And no Cipo! What were they thinking???
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Not to be a conspiracy nut, but I wonder if they are thinking, "If we can't stop Lance, we can at
> least get rid of the competition, that way when he wins we can say 'of course the ignorant
> American won, there was no competition'".
>
> It's possible that's in the back of their minds, or forefront...
>

Are you trying to say that Cipo is competition for Lance? He'd have to finish the race at least
And how is Lance ignorant?

-T

 

[Hawke]

"Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1ktya.2491$e%[email protected]...
>
> "Chris B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > >
> > > And no Cipo! What were they thinking???
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > Not to be a conspiracy nut, but I wonder if they are thinking, "If we can't stop Lance, we can
> > at least get rid of the competition, that way when he wins we can say 'of course the ignorant
> > American won, there was no competition'".
> >
> > It's possible that's in the back of their minds, or forefront...
> >
>
> Are you trying to say that Cipo is competition for Lance? He'd have to finish the race at least
> And how is Lance ignorant?
>
> -T

Yeah you probably need to re-think that, the French don't much care for Lance either.

Hawke

 

[Antti Salonen]

Ilan Vardi <[email protected]> wrote:

> Last year, the TDF had some justification, due to the battle with Cipollini around Paris-Roubaix,
> but this year, they have nothing to reproach him.
>
> It's truly awful for sport. The most glaring aspect is that Cipollini is the person who in the
> past decade has most affected the look of the Tour de France.
>
> Anyway, for you people not living in France, such decisions are typical in all fields, and have
> plagued me since I started living here.

Is the same kind of nationalism not present in the selections for the Giro and the Vuelta? If you
look at the start list of the ongoing Giro, you'll see the usual division I teams and then a bunch
of Italian division II teams. Or is this only because there's no interest in the Giro from that many
non-Italian teams?

-as

 

[Robert Chung]

"Antti Salonen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Is the same kind of nationalism not present in the selections for the Giro and the Vuelta? If you
> look at the start list of the ongoing Giro, you'll see the usual division I teams and then a bunch
> of Italian division II teams. Or is this only because there's no interest in the Giro from that
> many non-Italian teams?

If you look more closely, you'll see that many Division I teams are not present in the Giro and
that's because they chose not to ride. For example, here's a list of teams that got an automatic
entry into the Giro but chose not to attend: iBanesto, Cofidis, Coast (of course), CSC, ONCE,
Rabobank, USPS, and Telekom. The Giro had to fill out its team list by accepting Division II teams.

 

[Danny Callen]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "CTRDY01" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >> I say we boycot the TdF without IGG, der Jan and ol' double eyes.
> > > >> >
> > > >> And no Cipo! What were they thinking???
> > > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps they can still get in, if Coast is ruled out for good.
> >
> > Even that is a bit poor - a choice between Ullrich and Cipo, while Jean Delatour gets automatic
> > entry. Or another possibility: Coast remains out
> and
> > there is no substitute.
> >
> > What a let down.
> >
> > Jeff
>
>
>
> I'm guessing that Leblanc has foremost in his memory banks the typical experience the TdF has had
> with Cipo:
>
> 1) he wins some stages
> 2) he has a mysterious ailment which forces him to drop out the day before the first mountain
> stage
> 3) he flaunts it on some nice beach the next few days
>
> Not the greatest way to endear oneself to the organisers.
>
> or perhaps Leblanc remembers:
>
> 4) Cipo, frustrated by all the breakaways which his team was unable to control in his first TdF,
> attacked off the front at the beginning of a
stage
> to take the first sprint points, then dropped out saying, "The TdF is not the best showcase for my
> talents"
>
>
> There is no question that Cipo's team should be in ahead of Jean Delatour, based upon merit. IMO,
> Leblanc is saying, "You need us more than we need you. Payback is a *****".
>
>

Baaaaloney! Cipo is a pain in the ass and a spectacle. He draws a crowd and guess what? the race
sponsors want to "draw a crowd". The Tour without Cipo and Jan is like a ham and cheese sandwich
without the ham and cheese.

Danny Callen

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Danny Callen <[email protected]> wrote:

> Baaaaloney! Cipo is a pain in the ass and a spectacle. He draws a crowd and guess what? the race
> sponsors want to "draw a crowd". The Tour without Cipo and Jan is like a ham and cheese sandwich
> without the ham and cheese.

Or chocolate without the donut.

-WG

 

[Steve@Printemp.]

On 5/22/03 8:02 PM, in article 220520031959444633%[email protected], "warren" <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Danny Callen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Baaaaloney! Cipo is a pain in the ass and a spectacle. He draws a crowd and guess what? the race
>> sponsors want to "draw a crowd". The Tour without Cipo and Jan is like a ham and cheese sandwich
>> without the ham and cheese.
>
> Or chocolate without the donut.
>
> -WG

OR Henry without his PARROT!!!

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Danny Callen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> >
> > There is no question that Cipo's team should be in ahead of Jean
Delatour,
> > based upon merit. IMO, Leblanc is saying, "You need us more than we need you. Payback is a
> > *****".
> >
> >
>
> Baaaaloney! Cipo is a pain in the ass and a spectacle. He draws a crowd
and
> guess what? the race sponsors want to "draw a crowd". The Tour without
Cipo
> and Jan is like a ham and cheese sandwich without the ham and cheese.

The Tour will be just as big without them.

For better or for worse, the TdF is bigger than any one rider or any one team.

It corresponds with the Summer Holiday in Europe, when nearly everyone is on vacation for 3 weeks.
They could leave out Lance Armstrong, Jan Ullrich, Mario Cippollini, Erik Zabel, Robbie McEwen and
Joseba Beloki and it would still be the biggest race.

That's why Leblanc knows he can get away with his political ****.

Vive le France!

 

[Bob Schwartz]

Danny Callen wrote:
> Baaaaloney! Cipo is a pain in the ass and a spectacle. He draws a crowd and guess what? the race
> sponsors want to "draw a crowd". The Tour without Cipo and Jan is like a ham and cheese sandwich
> without the ham and cheese.

Well, Cipo is certainly both a pain in the ass and a spectacle. I and just about everyone else on
the planet think that the attention he's brought to the Tour should outweigh all the **** he's
shoved in Leblanc's face but apparently that's not the case. C'est la vie.

But I don't think the Tour will miss Jan at all. The guy hasn't been at his best for quite some time
now and I don't think I'm willing to accept a win in Koln as concrete evidence that he's where he
needs to be to be a credible challenger in the Tour. Since he hasn't raced a lot I suppose he can go
about whatever preparation is on his program without being bothered by a lot of testing. But there
isn't much evidence at all that he'd be a force in the Tour. And he's only had about the highest
level of distraction of any rider this spring.

Let me put it this way. If Jan and Cipo were in the Tour, you'd see about a billion people along the
road up to Alpe d'Huez, most of them drunk. But the fact that they're missing changes everything.
I'm betting the crowd will drop to only about a billion or so and the sense of loss will cause most
of them to drink. It'll be like a whole different race.

Bob Schwartz [email protected]

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> But I don't think the Tour will miss Jan at all. The guy hasn't been at his best for quite some
> time now and I don't think I'm willing to accept a win in Koln as concrete evidence that he's
> where he needs to be to be a credible challenger in the Tour.

The guy has one win and 4 second-place GC finishes. His worst GC finish is 2nd.

He's not a credible challenger?

The Tour would not miss him? Who, besides LANCE, would the Tour miss more? La Elefantina?

 

[Tom Schulenburg]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > But I don't think the Tour will miss Jan at all. The guy hasn't been at his best for quite some
> > time now and I don't think I'm willing to accept a win in Koln as concrete evidence that he's
> > where he needs to be to be a credible challenger in the Tour.
>
>
>
> The guy has one win and 4 second-place GC finishes. His worst GC finish is 2nd.
>
> He's not a credible challenger?

There's a big difference between racing not to lose and racing to win. If Jan had really tried
to challenge Lance, he might have blown up and finished a lot worse than second (I know, just
speculation). It's the same reason Beloki isn't cosidered a challenger despite all of his
podium finishes.

>
> The Tour would not miss him? Who, besides LANCE, would the Tour miss more? La Elefantina?
>
>
I think what Bob is trying to say is - Last years Tour wasn't any less exciting without Jan or Cipo,
why would this year be any different?

-T

 

[Bob Schwartz]

Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> But I don't think the Tour will miss Jan at all. The guy hasn't been at his best for quite some
>> time now and I don't think I'm willing to accept a win in Koln as concrete evidence that he's
>> where he needs to be to be a credible challenger in the Tour.

> The guy has one win and 4 second-place GC finishes. His worst GC finish is 2nd.

> He's not a credible challenger?

> The Tour would not miss him? Who, besides LANCE, would the Tour miss more? La Elefantina?

Hinault has 5 wins, but he's not a credible challenger.

Ullrich hasn't ridden at a level where you would consider him to be a threat since 2001. He's coming
off injury and a suspension. His personal and professional lives have been in a blender.

All I'm saying is that I'd like to see some evdence that he's past all these issues before
concluding that he's past all these issues. And he hasn't shown that yet, at least not in the
context of a stage race.

If he'd have signed with a financially stable team and had been able to concentrate on his Tour
prep... and had shown some form in a top level race... then sure, his history makes him a contender.
If he'd have crested a few passes with the leaders in some place like Romandie or Spain then that'd
be different.

Lance is focused on July. Jan is focused on getting invited to races with team Bianchi/<This Space
for Rent>. He has no clear idea of who his teammates might be. He has a ton of **** to pull together
before he can be a Tour contender. It's possible that he could capture a stage. But being at close
to the same level as Lance for three weeks seems like a bit much.

Pantani, on the other hand, is beginning to show some evidence that he can compete at the highest
levels again. All across Italy there are pharmacists that are smiling at this.

Bob Schwartz [email protected]

 

[Robert Chung]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The Tour would not miss him? Who, besides LANCE, would the Tour miss more?

Yaroslav Popovych. This kid has climbed to 4th on GC without any team.

 

[Robert Chung]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > But I don't think the Tour will miss Jan at all. The guy hasn't been at his best for quite some
> > time now and I don't think I'm willing to accept a win in Koln as concrete evidence that he's
> > where he needs to be to be a credible challenger in the Tour.
>
> The guy has one win and 4 second-place GC finishes. His worst GC finish is 2nd.
>
> He's not a credible challenger?
>
> The Tour would not miss him? Who, besides LANCE, would the Tour miss more?

Well, it looks like the Tour won't miss him. Bianchi has been certified as a continuation of Team
Coast, which means they get Coast's Top Club status and an exempt slot into the Tour.

 

[Raptor]

Tom Schulenburg wrote:
> I think what Bob is trying to say is - Last years Tour wasn't any less exciting without Jan or
> Cipo, why would this year be any different?
>
> -T

Bob should then perhaps consider that Lance himself said Ullrich is the only serious challenger
Lance has. With no credible challenger for Lance, it's a less exciting tour. We mortals are left to
watch for him to screw up or get screwed up, and otherwise ooh and ahh at his superiority.

This ignores the question of whether Jan could mount a challenge this year if he rides.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Tom Schulenburg]

"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Tom Schulenburg wrote:
> > I think what Bob is trying to say is - Last years Tour wasn't any less exciting without Jan or
> > Cipo, why would this year be any different?
> >
> > -T
>
> Bob should then perhaps consider that Lance himself said Ullrich is the only serious challenger
> Lance has. With no credible challenger for Lance, it's a less exciting tour. We mortals are left
> to watch for him to screw up or get screwed up, and otherwise ooh and ahh at his
superiority.
>
> This ignores the question of whether Jan could mount a challenge this year if he rides.
>

My 2 cents - Jan wasn't much of a challenger under better circumstances. With everything that's
happened to him in the last year, why would anyone think different? I think that Lance is being
polite when he says he considers Jan the only serious challenger. The only way this year might be
more interesting is if Lance has to make up (if he can) serious time after the mountain stages have
started. Could happen, but I doubt it.

-T

 

[Kyle Legate]

Tom Schulenburg wrote:
>
> My 2 cents - Jan wasn't much of a challenger under better circumstances. With everything that's
> happened to him in the last year, why would anyone think different?
>
In the last year Jan has learned how to spin. If he has the mountain fitness he won't have to just
watch LANCE ride away on him. I think he lost the last Tour he rode mainly because he couldn't
respond to the changes in acceleration on the climbs. He won't make that mistake again.

 

[Hawke]

"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > But I don't think the Tour will miss Jan at all. The guy hasn't been at his best for quite
> > > some time now and I don't think I'm willing to accept a win in Koln as concrete evidence that
> > > he's where he needs to
be
> > > to be a credible challenger in the Tour.
> >
> > The guy has one win and 4 second-place GC finishes. His worst GC finish
is
> > 2nd.
> >
> > He's not a credible challenger?
> >
> > The Tour would not miss him? Who, besides LANCE, would the Tour miss
more?
>
> Well, it looks like the Tour won't miss him. Bianchi has been certified as
a
> continuation of Team Coast, which means they get Coast's Top Club status
and
> an exempt slot into the Tour.

Yes just as I predict, Jan will win the TdF in 2003!

He is just that good.

Hawke

 

[Just A Cyclist]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Danny Callen wrote:
> > Baaaaloney! Cipo is a pain in the ass and a spectacle. He draws a crowd
and
> > guess what? the race sponsors want to "draw a crowd". The Tour without
Cipo
> > and Jan is like a ham and cheese sandwich without the ham and cheese.
>
> Well, Cipo is certainly both a pain in the ass and a spectacle. I and just about everyone else on
> the planet think that the attention he's brought to the Tour should outweigh all the **** he's
> shoved in Leblanc's face but apparently that's not the case. C'est la vie.
>
> But I don't think the Tour will miss Jan at all. The guy hasn't been at his best for quite some
> time now and I don't think I'm willing to accept a win in Koln as concrete evidence that he's
> where he needs to be to be a credible challenger in the Tour. Since he hasn't raced a lot I
> suppose he can go about whatever preparation is on his program without being bothered by a lot of
> testing. But there isn't much evidence at all that he'd be a force in the Tour. And he's only had
> about the highest level of distraction of any rider this spring.
>
> Let me put it this way. If Jan and Cipo were in the Tour, you'd see about a billion people along
> the road up to Alpe d'Huez, most of them drunk.
Cipo wouldn't be at Alpe d'Huez, that's a hill....Cipo doesn't do hills......besides he would have
withdrawn by then.

But the fact that they're missing changes everything. I'm
> betting the crowd will drop to only about a billion or so and the sense of loss will cause most of
> them to drink. It'll be like a whole different race.
>
> Bob Schwartz [email protected]

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"Just a Cyclist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > Let me put it this way. If Jan and Cipo were in the Tour, you'd see about a billion people along
> > the road up to Alpe d'Huez, most of them drunk.
>
> Cipo wouldn't be at Alpe d'Huez, that's a hill....Cipo doesn't do hills......besides he would have
> withdrawn by then.

So how do you explain that Cipo has won the final stage of the Giro five times?

Must be that the Giro has easy courses, right?