TdF - incident with Lance A, shown on ITV2

[JohnB]

Simon Mason wrote:
>
> "A.Lee" <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message
> news:41024a90$0$25117$ed2619ec@ptn-
> > LA is well ****** because of this, so according to Simeoni, he has tried
> > to get Simeoni thrown out of his team. LA denies everything, so,
> > yesterday, he didnt like his accuser going for a stage win, follwoed him
> > to a breakaway, and in effect,by being in the break,didnt give the break
> > any chance of getting away from the Peloton.
>
> Sounds fair enough to me. This goes on in all sorts of other sports,
> sometimes quite brutal. I remember footballer Roy Keane being slighted by
> Alf Inge Haaland. Keane describes how he deliberately goes for Haaland in a
> tackle and badly injures him. Who can forget Schumaker taking out Damon
> Hill, after Schumi had crashed leaving Hill to take the championship?
>
> If I was truly clean like Armstrong says he is, then I'd go after someone
> who tried to insinuate it was all down to drugs. If the drugs are so
> miraculous then how come David Millar was so inconsistent?

Coz he didn't take them all the time (at least that's what he says) -
and I think he really did have a guilty conscience about the issue.
Even so he is still a cheat.

John B

 

[Danny Colyer]

Dene Wilby wrote:
> Simeoni is a whining little **** who pisses off a lot of other riders
> with his bad mouthing, not just Armstrong

Careful, if someone were to forward that to Simeoni you could end up
being sued for libel ...

;-)

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

 

[Martin 'MSeries' Newstead]

JohnB wrote:
>> I do not believe for a second Lance is using drugs.

Perhaps not banned substances but I'd be surprised if he used no
injections/pills/supositories at all. As a winner he will be tested more
than most during July so I am sure he will be clean during the Tour.

>
> I didn't believe Millar was either.
> Now I never believe anything about pro cycle racing. Its simply a
> circus.
>
> John B

 

[AC]

Thanks to everyone for the info etc

All very interesting

I understand the issue re breakaway ie LA would join it , beat everyone so
no incentive for the Italian bloke to get involved

 

[chris French]

In message <[email protected]>, JohnB <[email protected]> writes
>Callas wrote:
>>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > Anyone who reads his books cannot fail to be moved by his story which
>> > transcends mere sport.
>
>Agreed, although they do come across a liittle too much in the Big
>American 'Aren't I/we the Best' manner which is a little off-putting at times.

Though I guess as h approaches is 6th tour win it's a fair point
--
Chris French, Leeds

 

[JohnB]

Callas wrote:
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Anyone who reads his books cannot fail to be moved by his story which
> > transcends mere sport.

Agreed, although they do come across a liittle too much in the Big
American 'Aren't I/we the Best' manner which is a little off-putting at times.

> What Lance writes in his autobiography is something which in my
> experience *can only be written* by someone who truely knows themselves.

AIUI not all his books are solely his.
ISTR Every Second Counts was c-authored (?) by Sally jenkins.

> It simply is something you cannot fake.

> I do not believe for a second Lance is using drugs.

I didn't believe Millar was either.
Now I never believe anything about pro cycle racing. Its simply a circus.

John B

 

[dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers]

>No, it's the other way around. The Italian rider, Simeoni, is suing Lance in
>the Italian courts, as Lance called him a liar. There is no love lost between
>them right now.
>
>Cheers, helen s

Further clarification. Here's what it is on cyclingnews.com about the affair...

LA's side of events
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jul04/jul24news

"On the other side, Armstrong explained his move saying: "The story of Simeoni
is not a fair story... Simeoni, there's a long history there. All (journalists)
want to write about his part of the story. It's a long history... A guy like
(Simeoni), all he wants to do is to destroy cycling...and for me, that's not
correct. He's the kind of rider who attacks the peloton and cycling in
general." "

Then today, on the live coverage of the time trial at
http://live.cyclingnews.com/

"13:53 CEST
Yesterday's tête a tête between Lance Armstrong and Filippo Simeoni has set
people's emotions buzzing, both outside and inside the peloton. After Simeoni
was chased down by Armstrong when he bridged up to the leading break in stage
18, it was clear that Armstrong was exercising his considerable muscle (both
literally and figuratively) to prevent Simeoni from being there. After they
went back to the peloton, Simeoni copped a lot of flak from many of the other
riders, who were in agreement with Armstrong that Simeoni damaged cycling when
he testified in the Ferrari trial a couple of years ago.

In his testimony, Simeoni admitted to taking EPO, testosterone and other banned
substances, but said that Dr. Michele Ferrari (who also advises Lance
Armstrong) prescribed them to him. Armstrong subsequently called Simeoni a liar
in an interview with Le Monde in 2003. Simeoni objected to this, and is suing
Armstrong for a symbolic sum of €100,000.

On the morning after Stage 18, David Etxebarria (Euskaltel) commented on
Armstrong's stage tactics in the Basque daily Deia with the simple headline -
"You don't do these things".

Contrary to Armstrong's comments that he was protecting the peloton and that
the peloton had congratulated him on his actions, Etxebarria thought that
Armstrong's actions "were not to the liking of the peloton" and that a stage of
the Tour was not a time to rectify any problems the race leader might have with
Filippo Simeoni. Etxebarria commented that the "bad feeling was not followed by
T-Mobile, the natural rival of Armstrong, who could have chased
Armstrong...they only did it, timidly when the gap to the American was at two
minutes"."

Cheers, helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
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[Al C-F]

On 24 Jul 2004 15:18:11 GMT, [email protected]omcom
(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote:

>other
>riders, who were in agreement with Armstrong that Simeoni damaged cycling when
>he testified in the Ferrari trial a couple of years ago.
>
>In his testimony, Simeoni admitted to taking EPO, testosterone and other banned
>substances, but said that Dr. Michele Ferrari (who also advises Lance
>Armstrong) prescribed them to him.

I can see how this testimony would damage cycling, but which is more
important, the truth (with the result that there will eventually be
fewer doped riders) or a cover up for the 'good' of the sport?

And is Simeoni supposed to be a liar because he didn't really take
drugs, or because Dr Ferrari didn't really prescribe them? And how
does Armstrong know?
--

Cheers,

Al

 

[Al C-F]

On 24 Jul 2004 15:18:11 GMT, [email protected]omcom
(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote:

>Etxebarria thought that
>... a stage of
>the Tour was not a time to rectify any problems the race leader might have with
>Filippo Simeoni

I rather think I agree. Whatever the rights and wrongs, LA's image
doesn't benefit from such bully-boy tactics.
--

Cheers,

Al

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

Martin 'MSeries' Newstead wrote:

> I don't know the ins and outs of the situation but this happens in pro
> racing and has for as long as I have been following it (20 years). The
> senior riders have much respect in the peleton and do use their authority to
> a certain extent to keep things in check. Fondriest, Lemond and Fignon
> played these cards often. At some point there will be a change in the
> pecking order, every dog has its day.

Hinault was the canonical example: fail to behave and he would punch
your lights out. Despite having a rather unpleasant personality, IMO he
was a greater cyclist than Armstrong.

 

[JohnB]

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

>
> Further clarification.

You mean yet *another* interpretation.

> Here's what it is on cyclingnews.com about the affair...
>
> LA's side of events
>
> "On the other side, Armstrong explained his move saying: "The story of Simeoni
> is not a fair story...

> Then today, on the live coverage of the time trial at
>
> On the morning after Stage 18, David Etxebarria (Euskaltel) commented on
> Armstrong's stage tactics in the Basque daily Deia with the simple headline -
> "You don't do these things".
>
> Etxebarria thought that
> Armstrong's actions "were not to the liking of the peloton" and that a stage of
> the Tour was not a time to rectify any problems the race leader might have with
> Filippo Simeoni. "

It's all pathetic soap opera. I wonder what the riders' repeat fees will
be.

John B

 

[Dan Gregory]

"Vivian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Damn, I got to get cable!!
>
> Is Lance going out with Sheryl Crow?
I thought it was his mother ....
All the best
Dan Gregory


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[Peter Connolly]

Danny Colyer wrote:
> Dene Wilby wrote:
>> Simeoni is a whining little **** who pisses off a lot of other riders
>> with his bad mouthing, not just Armstrong
>
> Careful, if someone were to forward that to Simeoni you could end up
> being sued for libel ...
>
> ;-)

....but for a successful case, Simeoni would have to prove that he is NOT and
does not...Tricky, I would have thought.... ;-))

Pete.

 

[Steve McGinty]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 14:36:25 +0100, "AC" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Thanks to everyone for the info etc
>
>All very interesting
>
>I understand the issue re breakaway ie LA would join it , beat everyone so
>no incentive for the Italian bloke to get involved
>
Not that he would beat everyone, rather that the other teams wouldn't
allow a break with Armstrong in it succeed and would chase it down.

Regards!
Stephen

 

[taywood]

"AC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
> I have a question about yesterdays stage...
> Apparently some Italian rider attempted a breakaway and ITV2 claimed that
LA
> spoke to him & told him to get back in the main group. (he was not a US
> postal member)
>snip

Listening to the pre race interviews I got the impression that all the
riders were so exhausted, from leaders to domestiques to tail enders,
and they would have welcomed an easy ride that day.
It seemed to happen that way and when the bunch took off they were
not chased as their results would not affect the general classement.

Then the 'ranking' Italian upset that by making a break, LA chased him,
got the pair of them up to the break group and worked with the group
briefly.
Then there were obviously words and the two waited for the peloton.
I believe he really would have stayed in that group and broken all
seven if Simioni hadnt agreed. We saw he had the power to do that.

 

[James Hodson]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:02:41 +0100, "Simon Mason"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Who can forget Schumaker taking out Damon
>Hill, after Schumi had crashed leaving Hill to take the championship?

And don't forget Schumacher's failed attempt to remove Villeneuve from
the track in 1997 at Jerez(?). At least he was punished slightly for
that transgression.

James

 

[James Hodson]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:15:49 +0100, Callas <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I do not believe for a second Lance is using drugs.

Hi Callas

However, Lance tends to answer any drug-related questions by saying
that he is "the most tested"person in cycling. I've never heard him
actually deny taking drugs. Having said that, I do believe he's clean.

James

 

[Dave Kahn]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:11:38 GMT, JohnB <[email protected]> wrote:

>Martin 'MSeries' Newstead wrote:
>>
>> I don't know the ins and outs of the situation but this happens in pro
>> racing and has for as long as I have been following it (20 years). The
>> senior riders have much respect in the peleton and do use their authority to
>> a certain extent to keep things in check.
>
>They also have the most money to make 'arrangements'.

Are you trying to suggest there was corruption involved? All that
happened was the Lance made it clear he would join any break that
Simeoni got into thereby ruining that break's chances of being allowed
to get away. It's a grudge, and he's not going to give an opponent he
hates an easy ride. Working to defeat an opponent is not against the
rules.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

 

[Dave Kahn]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 14:36:25 +0100, "AC" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I understand the issue re breakaway ie LA would join it , beat everyone so
>no incentive for the Italian bloke to get involved

Not so much that Lance would win the stage himself, but rather that
his very presence in the break would force the teams of his main
rivals to chase it down.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

 

[Dave Kahn]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:56:22 +0100, Al C-F
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 24 Jul 2004 15:18:11 GMT, [email protected]omcom
>(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote:
>
>>Etxebarria thought that
>>... a stage of
>>the Tour was not a time to rectify any problems the race leader might have with
>>Filippo Simeoni
>
>I rather think I agree. Whatever the rights and wrongs, LA's image
>doesn't benefit from such bully-boy tactics.

On the contrary. It's good to see a pampered team leader demonstrate
his ability to chase breaks down and control the race himself. I'd
expect any top class rider to work hard to spoil the chances of any
other rider who'd seriously ****** him off. Cycle racing is a brutally
hard sport and Lance was perfectly entitled to go after Simeoni in the
way he did.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain