tennis elbow, revisited



M

Madelaine

Guest
I seem to have tennis elbow. It seems to be caused by my increase in
the time I spend on crawl. It seems, from reading old rss posts on the
same, that I need to revise my catch in crawl and move away from the
straight arm technique that I was taught in junior high (a while
ago--Nixon was president) and into a high elbow catch. Bending your
elbow more seems counter-intuitive, but I'll try it.
Do I have to lay off swimming completely for a while? I only did 750
yard this am, and only a little more than a third was crawl. Does
backstroke contribute to tennis elbow?
I also have the bizarre sleep habit of extending my left hand over my
hand and burying my face in my arm, which seems to be contributing to
why it is much worse on the left side. I'm trying to break that habit.
Madelaine
 
Madelaine wrote:
> I seem to have tennis elbow. It seems to be caused by my increase in
> the time I spend on crawl. It seems, from reading old rss posts on the
> same, that I need to revise my catch in crawl and move away from the
> straight arm technique that I was taught in junior high (a while
> ago--Nixon was president) and into a high elbow catch. Bending your
> elbow more seems counter-intuitive, but I'll try it.
> Do I have to lay off swimming completely for a while? I only did 750
> yard this am, and only a little more than a third was crawl. Does
> backstroke contribute to tennis elbow?
> I also have the bizarre sleep habit of extending my left hand over my
> hand and burying my face in my arm, which seems to be contributing to
> why it is much worse on the left side. I'm trying to break that habit.
> Madelaine

Hi Madelaine

I suffered from tennis elbow in my right arm for several years, which I
hasten to add was NOT from playing tennis - I think mostly from nappy
changing as my twins were babies at the time it first developed and
also just general household jobs - lifting heavy pots, etc. I had
about 6 cortisone injections over a 2 year period before being referred
for surgery and it has been mostly fine ever since the surgery, though
I did get some twinges in it last year. I was straight down to the
doctor at the first sign, as I knew where it was leading. Fortunately
a course of anti-inflammatories and strict avoidance of activities
which I know aggravate it and it has settled down again.

Now, this doesn't have much to do with swimming, but I know where you
are coming from and I can sympathise. Also I have had some similar
tennis-elbow like pain in my left elbow which might be similar to your
problem. My elbows hyper-extend when they are "straight" and this
seems to be the main cause of the problem. I think maybe the
muscle/tendon gets irritated by rubbing across the elbow joint at the
extreme of the extension.

I have found that a lot of backstroke definitely aggravates it, so I
make a point of consciously not extending my arm fully as I recover it,
and this seems to help. It is actually geometrically straight but not
fully extended from a biomechanical point of view. The same applies on
the catch of freestyle - I make a conscious effort not to extend it
fully.

A while ago it got quite sore and I made myself a sort of tennis elbow
brace, out of a piece of nylon webbing, a plastic buckle and some
velcro, all of which I had lying around the house. I could wear this
in the pool and it took the pressure off the joint, and also acted as a
physical reminder not to straighten my arm too much.

Not sure if any of this is much help, but I would suggest at least
trying some anti-inflammatory medication, and if it doesn't clear up
fairly quickly then get to the doctor without delay. My experience is
that it doesn't go away on its own and you need to nip it in the bud
asap.

Good luck

Liz D
 
Liz D wrote:
> Madelaine wrote:
>
>>I seem to have tennis elbow. It seems to be caused by my increase in
>>the time I spend on crawl. It seems, from reading old rss posts on the
>>same, that I need to revise my catch in crawl and move away from the
>>straight arm technique that I was taught in junior high (a while
>>ago--Nixon was president) and into a high elbow catch. Bending your
>>elbow more seems counter-intuitive, but I'll try it.
>>Do I have to lay off swimming completely for a while? I only did 750
>>yard this am, and only a little more than a third was crawl. Does
>>backstroke contribute to tennis elbow?
>>I also have the bizarre sleep habit of extending my left hand over my
>>hand and burying my face in my arm, which seems to be contributing to
>>why it is much worse on the left side. I'm trying to break that habit.
>>Madelaine
>
>
> Hi Madelaine
>
> I suffered from tennis elbow in my right arm for several years, which I
> hasten to add was NOT from playing tennis - I think mostly from nappy
> changing as my twins were babies at the time it first developed and
> also just general household jobs - lifting heavy pots, etc. I had
> about 6 cortisone injections over a 2 year period before being referred
> for surgery and it has been mostly fine ever since the surgery, though
> I did get some twinges in it last year. I was straight down to the
> doctor at the first sign, as I knew where it was leading. Fortunately
> a course of anti-inflammatories and strict avoidance of activities
> which I know aggravate it and it has settled down again.
>
> Now, this doesn't have much to do with swimming, but I know where you
> are coming from and I can sympathise. Also I have had some similar
> tennis-elbow like pain in my left elbow which might be similar to your
> problem. My elbows hyper-extend when they are "straight" and this
> seems to be the main cause of the problem. I think maybe the
> muscle/tendon gets irritated by rubbing across the elbow joint at the
> extreme of the extension.
>
> I have found that a lot of backstroke definitely aggravates it, so I
> make a point of consciously not extending my arm fully as I recover it,
> and this seems to help. It is actually geometrically straight but not
> fully extended from a biomechanical point of view. The same applies on
> the catch of freestyle - I make a conscious effort not to extend it
> fully.
>
> A while ago it got quite sore and I made myself a sort of tennis elbow
> brace, out of a piece of nylon webbing, a plastic buckle and some
> velcro, all of which I had lying around the house. I could wear this
> in the pool and it took the pressure off the joint, and also acted as a
> physical reminder not to straighten my arm too much.
>
> Not sure if any of this is much help, but I would suggest at least
> trying some anti-inflammatory medication, and if it doesn't clear up
> fairly quickly then get to the doctor without delay. My experience is
> that it doesn't go away on its own and you need to nip it in the bud
> asap.
>
> Good luck
>
> Liz D
>
Liz,
It is quite fascinating how on the mark you are with your comments--when
I read the old rss posts on tennis elbow (often caused by many other
things than tennis) one of the things most often mentioned was wearing
the little brace. How clever of you to make up your own! I think that I
also hyperextend, and that I have been doing so in yoga. Also, I think
my habit of resting some of my weight on my arms when going up and
downstairs to help protect my arthritic feet is a factor, as is another
sleep habit of burying my head in my crooked arm. I suspect that
backstroke is as much a culprit for me as is crawl, since I think that
I habitually hyperextend.

Another thing I read about tennis elbow in general is that it tends to
be worse in women because women give little attention to strengthening
their forearms. In fact, most women don't give very much thought to
their forearms at all...

I have the swim leg of tri relay scheduled for August, so I have to be
better by then, so I'm hoping for physical therapy beginning next week.
Madelaine
 

> Madelaine wrote:
>
>>I seem to have tennis elbow. It seems to be caused by my increase in
>>the time I spend on crawl. .......
>


Liz D wrote:
> I suffered from tennis elbow in my right arm for several years, which I
> hasten to add was NOT from playing tennis - I think mostly from nappy
> changing as my twins were babies at the time it first developed and
> also just general household jobs - lifting heavy pots, etc.



I get tennis elbow from open turns. I have to be careful not to pull
myself to the end before turning and not with the same arm all the time.
I think pushing off the wall hard is another source of ache and pain,
but of course to foot and ankle. I agree, Liz, backstroke is a culprit,
too. My daughter's caring of her twins caused malfunction of her whole
body, especially brain. But they are my joys.

rtk
 
Madelaine wrote:

> Liz D wrote:
>
>> Madelaine wrote:
>>
>>> I seem to have tennis elbow. ..............
> Another thing I read about tennis elbow in general is that it tends to
> be worse in women because women give little attention to strengthening
> their forearms. In fact, most women don't give very much thought to
> their forearms at all...
...........

I think wrist curls and reverse curls would be strengthening. I also
have hyperextended everything. I've just spent several days sitting
next to a 12 year old family member who imitated the various ways I sit
at the table. This is serious pretzel stuff that I didn't quite
realize. I understand that hypermobile joints are prone to injury.
Larry W has illustrated this very well. Of course. If he can't, who can?

rtk
 
rtk wrote:
> Madelaine wrote:
>
> > Liz D wrote:
> >
> >> Madelaine wrote:
> >>
> >>> I seem to have tennis elbow. ..............
> > Another thing I read about tennis elbow in general is that it tends to
> > be worse in women because women give little attention to strengthening
> > their forearms. In fact, most women don't give very much thought to
> > their forearms at all...
> ..........
>
> I think wrist curls and reverse curls would be strengthening. I also
> have hyperextended everything. I've just spent several days sitting
> next to a 12 year old family member who imitated the various ways I sit
> at the table. This is serious pretzel stuff that I didn't quite
> realize. I understand that hypermobile joints are prone to injury.
> Larry W has illustrated this very well. Of course. If he can't, who can?
>
> rtk

Stretching can also help. Straighten the arm (not fully, of course!),
flex the wrist and then gently press against the back of the hand with
your other hand. You should feel a stretch around the point of your
tennis elbow pain. I don't know the name of the muscle, but it's the
one that runs from the wrist to the elbow joint and stretching it can
help to reduce the friction over the elbow joint.

HTH

Liz D
 
rtk wrote:
> > Madelaine wrote:
> >
> >>I seem to have tennis elbow. It seems to be caused by my increase in
> >>the time I spend on crawl. .......
> >
>
>
> Liz D wrote:
> > I suffered from tennis elbow in my right arm for several years, which I
> > hasten to add was NOT from playing tennis - I think mostly from nappy
> > changing as my twins were babies at the time it first developed and
> > also just general household jobs - lifting heavy pots, etc.
>
>
>
> I get tennis elbow from open turns. I have to be careful not to pull
> myself to the end before turning and not with the same arm all the time.
> I think pushing off the wall hard is another source of ache and pain,
> but of course to foot and ankle. I agree, Liz, backstroke is a culprit,
> too. My daughter's caring of her twins caused malfunction of her whole
> body, especially brain. But they are my joys.
>
> rtk

I find open turns aggravate the soreness at the back of my shoulder. I
don't seem to be able to master doing them the other way, using the
other arm, so I'm just careful not to push off with my hand with too
much force. The answer, obviously, is to do more flip turns and I am
always meaning to do this but am still very intermittant with it.

My twins (identical girls) both have my bendy-back elbows.

They say insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids. LOL

Liz D
 
Madelaine wrote:
> I seem to have tennis elbow. It seems to be caused by my increase in
> the time I spend on crawl. It seems, from reading old rss posts on the
> same, that I need to revise my catch in crawl and move away from the
> straight arm technique that I was taught in junior high (a while
> ago--Nixon was president) and into a high elbow catch. Bending your
> elbow more seems counter-intuitive, but I'll try it.
> Do I have to lay off swimming completely for a while? I only did 750
> yard this am, and only a little more than a third was crawl. Does
> backstroke contribute to tennis elbow?
> I also have the bizarre sleep habit of extending my left hand over my
> hand and burying my face in my arm, which seems to be contributing to
> why it is much worse on the left side. I'm trying to break that habit.
> Madelaine

Grrr. I'm supposed to lay off for two weeks and not swim, and gulp
NSAIDS. I have something called cubital tunnel syndrome, and one of the
things that makes it worse, other than swimming, is leaning on your
elbow, which it turns out that I do all the time. So this is a big
habit-changing experience.

I guess I can go to the pool and kick and tread and get a workout that
way once this rotten cold is over.
Madelaine
 
You know those strain/sprain supports... like a very, very short sleeve
to wear over the area concerned, well, from experience ther elbow one
is quite good at making it slightly uncomfortable to bend the elbow and
I've worn it at night (now and then) precisely to ward off bad sleeping
positions.

Other than that, I've tried a bit of reverse backstroke. to counter the
usual backstoke movements.
 
Madelaine <[email protected]> wrote:

>Madelaine wrote:
>> I seem to have tennis elbow. It seems to be caused by my increase in
>> the time I spend on crawl. It seems, from reading old rss posts on the
>> same, that I need to revise my catch in crawl and move away from the
>> straight arm technique that I was taught in junior high (a while
>> ago--Nixon was president) and into a high elbow catch. Bending your
>> elbow more seems counter-intuitive, but I'll try it.
>> Do I have to lay off swimming completely for a while? I only did 750
>> yard this am, and only a little more than a third was crawl. Does
>> backstroke contribute to tennis elbow?
>> I also have the bizarre sleep habit of extending my left hand over my
>> hand and burying my face in my arm, which seems to be contributing to
>> why it is much worse on the left side. I'm trying to break that habit.
>> Madelaine
>
>Grrr. I'm supposed to lay off for two weeks and not swim, and gulp
>NSAIDS. I have something called cubital tunnel syndrome, and one of the
>things that makes it worse, other than swimming, is leaning on your
>elbow, which it turns out that I do all the time. So this is a big
>habit-changing experience.
>
>I guess I can go to the pool and kick and tread and get a workout that
>way once this rotten cold is over.
>Madelaine

I recommend the step machine and the eliptical walker. I prefer the
TechnoGym models. Good workout.
 
a.c. wrote:
> You know those strain/sprain supports... like a very, very short sleeve
> to wear over the area concerned, well, from experience ther elbow one
> is quite good at making it slightly uncomfortable to bend the elbow and
> I've worn it at night (now and then) precisely to ward off bad sleeping
> positions.
>
> Other than that, I've tried a bit of reverse backstroke. to counter the
> usual backstoke movements.
>
I tried this,and it works. It is also nice to have the extra warmth.
Madelaine
 
I was a tennis player and swimmer with bouts of tennis elbow.

Take a light dumbell and twist it (pronate/supinate) while isolating
the arm. It worked for me every time. Not curls or reverse curls but
a side to side twising. If you don't have a light dumbell you can use
a soup can. Ice after excercise.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> I was a tennis player and swimmer with bouts of tennis elbow.
>
> Take a light dumbell and twist it (pronate/supinate) while isolating
> the arm. It worked for me every time. Not curls or reverse curls but
> a side to side twising. If you don't have a light dumbell you can use
> a soup can. Ice after excercise.
>
I technically have cubital tunnel syndrome,which seems to be slightly
different, but I'm willing to try this.
Madelaine
 
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