Testicle Size and Diet

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Anonymous, Nov 28, 2003.

  1. bukake queen wrote:

    >>>>>activity and a vegetarian diet decreases (or can) decrease the size of your testicles and
    >>>>>fertility, does anyone know if there is any fact in this and if so, is there a nutritional
    >>>>>aspect?
    >>>>
    >>>>Semen production requires a lot of zinc, which is often lacking in vegetarian diets.
    >>>
    >>>'An American study found that organically grown food contained much higher average levels of
    >>>minerals than non-organic food. For example, there was 63 per cent more calcium, 73 per cent more
    >>>iron, 125 per cent more potassium and 60 per cent more zinc in the organically produced foods.
    >>>There was also 29 per cent less of the toxic element mercury.'
    >>>http://www.ekolantbruk.se/PDFer/Myth%20and%20reality.pdf
    >>
    >>You illiterate slut.
    >
    > You ignorant low-life liar.

    You've cornered the market on ignorance, you filthy skag.

    >>The question wasn't between organic and conventional. The question is between *types* of diets.
    >>
    >>Studies show that vegetarian diets often contain less zinc than meat-diets, so vegetarians need to
    >>eat plenty of foods that are rich in zinc.
    >>http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/zinc-vegetarian-diet.htm
    >>
    >>Avoidance of animal products in the diet was associated with decreased intakes of energy, protein,
    >>fat, calcium, and zinc and increased consumption of crude fiber, potassium, vitamin A, and
    >>ascorbic acid. The low dietary intake of zinc by vegetarian women was believed to result from
    >>liberal use of foods low in zinc such as fruits and vegetables, whereas vegetarian men primarily
    >>consumed zinc-rich food such as legumes and cheeses Lacto-ovo-vegetarians consumed twice the
    >>amount of crude fiber consumed by non-vegetarians and vegans four times as much. The zinc content
    >>of salivary sediment was significantly lower in vegetarians than in non-vegetarians; vegans had
    >>the lowest mean level... http://tinyurl.com/wzje
    >>
    >>Vegetarian diets in the United States typically contain between 10 and 30 percent less zinc than
    >>nonvegetarian diets.
    >>
    >>And they also contribute a lot of fiber and phytic acid, which tend to tie up minerals and make
    >>them less available for absorption....
    >>
    >>The women... absorbed less zinc from the vegetarian diet—21 percent less. Combined with the 14
    >>percent lower zinc content of the vegetarian diet, the women absorbed a total of 35 percent less
    >>zinc. And their blood zinc levels were 5 percent lower after 8 weeks on the vegetarian diet.
    >>http://tinyurl.com/wzjk
    >>
    >>The last article continues that the women weren't at any health risk, but then again women don't
    >>need zinc to produce healthy sperm. Men do: http://www.ein.org/fitsperm.htm
    >
    > and..
    >
    > 'An American study found that organically grown food contained much higher average levels of
    > minerals than non-organic food. For example, there was 63 per cent more calcium, 73 per cent more
    > iron, 125 per cent more potassium and 60 per cent more zinc in the organically produced foods.
    > There was also 29 per cent less of the toxic element mercury.'
    > http://www.ekolantbruk.se/PDFer/Myth%20and%20reality.pdf

    Completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, turd-brain. My cat is smarter than you are.
     


  2. Kramer

    Kramer Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Another source linked below for your consideration.
    >
    > chelsea skag wrote:

    > >
    > >>>>activity and a vegetarian diet decreases (or can) decrease the size of your testicles and
    > >>>>fertility, does anyone know if there is any fact in this and if so, is there a nutritional
    > >>>>aspect?
    > >>>
    > >>>To note;
    > >>>
    > >>>Br J Cancer 2000 Jul;83(1):95-7 Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal
    > >>>bioavailable androgens in vegan men.
    > >>>
    > >>>Allen NE, Appleby PN, Davey GK, Key TJ. Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Imperial Cancer Research
    > >>>Fund, Radcliffe Infirmary, Oxford, UK.
    > >>>
    > >>> Mean serum insulin-like growth factor-I [IGF-I] was 9% lower in 233 vegan men than in 226
    > >>> meat-eaters and 237 vegetarians (P = 0.002). Vegans had higher testosterone levels than
    > >>> vegetarians and meat-eaters,

    > >>>were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or
    > >>>luteinizing hormone.
    > >>
    > >>This has *no* bearing on sperm production. Difference in testosterone is more likely due to age:
    > >>vegans, as a group, probably have a lower mean age. The meat-eaters are more likely to have a
    > >>higher mean age. From the abstract, no data are given for age.
    > >
    > > BS.
    >
    > Read it and weep, slut.
    >
    > From: http://www.imaner.net/panel/profile.htm Vegan demographics: Most likely to be female and
    > under 35
    >
    > AGE Vegans UKvegans USAvegans 16-24 21% 14% 36% 25-34 40% 39% 44% 35-44 25% 32% 11% 45-54 10% 11%
    > 7% 55+ 4% 4% 2%
    >
    > Vegans UK Vegans USA Vegans Male 33% 36% 22% Female 67% 64% 78%
    >
    > Where was the study performed? What were the ages of the participants?
    >
    Higher testosterone corresponds with a large segment of men developing male-pattern baldness, but
    thoroughbred men do not have this problem. So really, you are stating a gross gross (especially
    given how gross you look personally) generalization. Jews have high testosterone and are a

    their arranged marriages so intelligently and so early on in the history of civilization, you can
    see that they keep their hair generally no matter how often they have their cocks down your
    dizzy-headed, poorly raised slutty daughters' throat in some seedy suburb of southern California.
     
  3. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    liar "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > pearl wrote:

    > >
    > >>>>activity and a vegetarian diet decreases (or can) decrease the size of your testicles and
    > >>>>fertility, does anyone know if there is any fact in this and if so, is there a nutritional
    > >>>>aspect?
    > >>>
    > >>>To note;
    > >>>
    > >>>Br J Cancer 2000 Jul;83(1):95-7 Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal
    > >>>bioavailable androgens in vegan men.
    > >>>
    > >>>Allen NE, Appleby PN, Davey GK, Key TJ. Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Imperial Cancer Research
    > >>>Fund, Radcliffe Infirmary, Oxford, UK.
    > >>>
    > >>> Mean serum insulin-like growth factor-I [IGF-I] was 9% lower in 233 vegan men than in 226
    > >>> meat-eaters and 237 vegetarians (P = 0.002). Vegans had higher testosterone levels than
    > >>> vegetarians and meat-eaters,

    > >>>were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or
    > >>>luteinizing hormone.
    > >>
    > >>This has *no* bearing on sperm production. Difference in testosterone is more likely due to age:
    > >>vegans, as a group, probably have a lower mean age. The meat-eaters are more likely to have a
    > >>higher mean age. From the abstract, no data are given for age.
    > >
    > > BS.
    >
    > Support your claim, dunce. <restore of undocumented snip in support of my claims>

    Your claim is that *in the study*; "vegans, as a group, probably have a lower mean age. The
    meat-eaters are more likely to have a higher mean age." That's nothing but BS conjecture, and it is
    _not_ supported by what you posted below.

    >
    > As men age, testosterone levels begin to fall from the age of 40 years. Some estimates
    > suggest that by the age of 65 years, 10% of men will have androgen deficiency and by the age
    > of 70 years this figure will have risen to over 20%.
    > http://www.andrologyaustralia.org/testosterone/default.htm
    >
    > Most of the vegans (especially males) whom I know are in their late teens and early 20s. Ray is an
    > anomaly and the fact he still has all his hair at his age is a sign of low testosterone,
    > specifically DHT.
    >
    > Men develop a typical pattern of baldness, associated with the presence of the male hormone
    > testosterone. Men who do not produce testosterone (because of genetic abnormalities or
    > castration) do not develop this pattern of baldness.
    > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003246.htm
    >
    > Try again, quack.

    Try again lying quackpot.
     
  4. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    liar "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Another source linked below for your consideration.
    >
    > pearl wrote:

    > >
    > >>>>activity and a vegetarian diet decreases (or can) decrease the size of your testicles and
    > >>>>fertility, does anyone know if there is any fact in this and if so, is there a nutritional
    > >>>>aspect?
    > >>>
    > >>>To note;
    > >>>
    > >>>Br J Cancer 2000 Jul;83(1):95-7 Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal
    > >>>bioavailable androgens in vegan men.
    > >>>
    > >>>Allen NE, Appleby PN, Davey GK, Key TJ. Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Imperial Cancer Research
    > >>>Fund, Radcliffe Infirmary, Oxford, UK.
    > >>>
    > >>> Mean serum insulin-like growth factor-I [IGF-I] was 9% lower in 233 vegan men than in 226
    > >>> meat-eaters and 237 vegetarians (P = 0.002). Vegans had higher testosterone levels than
    > >>> vegetarians and meat-eaters,

    > >>>were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or
    > >>>luteinizing hormone.
    > >>
    > >>This has *no* bearing on sperm production. Difference in testosterone is more likely due to age:
    > >>vegans, as a group, probably have a lower mean age. The meat-eaters are more likely to have a
    > >>higher mean age. From the abstract, no data are given for age.
    > >
    > > BS.
    >
    > Read it and weep, slut.

    Were you raised in a brothel? Sure sounds like it, pervert.

    > From: http://www.imaner.net/panel/profile.htm Vegan demographics: Most likely to be female and
    > under 35
    >
    > AGE Vegans UKvegans USAvegans 16-24 21% 14% 36% 25-34 40% 39% 44% 35-44 25% 32% 11% 45-54 10% 11%
    > 7% 55+ 4% 4% 2%
    >
    > Vegans UK Vegans USA Vegans Male 33% 36% 22% Female 67% 64% 78%
    >
    > Where was the study performed? What were the ages of the participants?

    You think the researchers aren't aware of the effects of age on testerone production, and were
    likely to compare different age-groups? Well, if that's the illogical tack you wish to pursue, go
    right ahead and prove it. :)

    > <restore of your undocumented snip of support>

    It is _not_ support for your illogical conjecture.

    > As men age, testosterone levels begin to fall from the age of 40 years. Some estimates
    > suggest that by the age of 65 years, 10% of men will have androgen deficiency and by the age
    > of 70 years this figure will have risen to over 20%.
    > http://www.andrologyaustralia.org/testosterone/default.htm
    >
    > Most of the vegans (especially males) whom I know are in their late teens and early 20s. Ray is an
    > anomaly and the fact he still has all his hair at his age is a sign of low testosterone,
    > specifically DHT.
    >
    > Men develop a typical pattern of baldness, associated with the presence of the male hormone
    > testosterone. Men who do not produce testosterone (because of genetic abnormalities or
    > castration) do not develop this pattern of baldness.
    > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003246.htm
    >
    > Try again, quack.

    Try again, lying quackpot.
     
  5. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    liar "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > pearl wrote:

    > >>>>>activity and a vegetarian diet decreases (or can) decrease the size of your testicles and
    > >>>>>fertility, does anyone know if there is any fact in this and if so, is there a nutritional
    > >>>>>aspect?
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Semen production requires a lot of zinc, which is often lacking in vegetarian diets.
    > >>>
    > >>>'An American study found that organically grown food contained much higher average levels of
    > >>>minerals than non-organic food. For example, there was 63 per cent more calcium, 73 per cent
    > >>>more iron, 125 per cent more potassium and 60 per cent more zinc in the organically produced
    > >>>foods. There was also 29 per cent less of the toxic element mercury.'
    > >>>http://www.ekolantbruk.se/PDFer/Myth%20and%20reality.pdf
    > >>
    > >>You illiterate slut.
    > >
    > > You ignorant low-life liar.
    >
    > You've cornered the market on ignorance, you filthy skag.
    >
    > >>The question wasn't between organic and conventional. The question is between *types* of diets.
    > >>
    > >>Studies show that vegetarian diets often contain less zinc than meat-diets, so vegetarians need
    > >>to eat plenty of foods that are rich in zinc.
    > >>http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/zinc-vegetarian-diet.htm
    > >>
    > >>Avoidance of animal products in the diet was associated with decreased intakes of energy,
    > >>protein, fat, calcium, and zinc and increased consumption of crude fiber, potassium, vitamin A,
    > >>and ascorbic acid. The low dietary intake of zinc by vegetarian women was believed to result
    > >>from liberal use of foods low in zinc such as fruits and vegetables, whereas vegetarian men
    > >>primarily consumed zinc-rich food such as legumes and cheeses Lacto-ovo-vegetarians consumed
    > >>twice the amount of crude fiber consumed by non-vegetarians and vegans four times as much. The
    > >>zinc content of salivary sediment was significantly lower in vegetarians than in
    > >>non-vegetarians; vegans had the lowest mean level... http://tinyurl.com/wzje
    > >>
    > >>Vegetarian diets in the United States typically contain between 10 and 30 percent less zinc than
    > >>nonvegetarian diets.
    > >>
    > >>And they also contribute a lot of fiber and phytic acid, which tend to tie up minerals and make
    > >>them less available for absorption....
    > >>
    > >>The women... absorbed less zinc from the vegetarian diet—21 percent less. Combined with the 14
    > >>percent lower zinc content of the vegetarian diet, the women absorbed a total of 35 percent less
    > >>zinc. And their blood zinc levels were 5 percent lower after 8 weeks on the vegetarian diet.
    > >>http://tinyurl.com/wzjk
    > >>
    > >>The last article continues that the women weren't at any health risk, but then again women don't
    > >>need zinc to produce healthy sperm. Men do: http://www.ein.org/fitsperm.htm
    > >
    > > and..
    > >
    > > 'An American study found that organically grown food contained much higher average levels of
    > > minerals than non-organic food. For example, there was 63 per cent more calcium, 73 per cent
    > > more iron, 125 per cent more potassium and 60 per cent more zinc in the organically produced
    > > foods. There was also 29 per cent less of the toxic element mercury.'
    > > http://www.ekolantbruk.se/PDFer/Myth%20and%20reality.pdf
    >
    > Completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, turd-brain. My cat is smarter than you are.

    Were the people in the studies you cite eating organic produce?

    I reckon everyone here gets it apart from you, psycho #3.
     
  6. B-Ob1

    B-Ob1 Guest

    see below

    pearl wrote:

    > liar "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > pearl wrote:

    > > >>>>>activity and a vegetarian diet decreases (or can) decrease the size of your testicles and
    > > >>>>>fertility, does anyone know if there is any fact in this and if so, is there a nutritional
    > > >>>>>aspect?
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>Semen production requires a lot of zinc, which is often lacking in vegetarian diets.
    > > >>>
    > > >>>'An American study found that organically grown food contained much higher average levels of
    > > >>>minerals than non-organic food. For example, there was 63 per cent more calcium, 73 per cent
    > > >>>more iron, 125 per cent more potassium and 60 per cent more zinc in the organically produced
    > > >>>foods. There was also 29 per cent less of the toxic element mercury.'
    > > >>>http://www.ekolantbruk.se/PDFer/Myth%20and%20reality.pdf
    > > >>
    > > >>You illiterate slut.
    > > >
    > > > You ignorant low-life liar.
    > >
    > > You've cornered the market on ignorance, you filthy skag.
    > >
    > > >>The question wasn't between organic and conventional. The question is between *types* of
    > > >>diets.
    > > >>
    > > >>Studies show that vegetarian diets often contain less zinc than meat-diets, so vegetarians
    > > >>need to eat plenty of foods that are rich in zinc.
    > > >>http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/zinc-vegetarian-diet.htm
    > > >>
    > > >>Avoidance of animal products in the diet was associated with decreased intakes of energy,
    > > >>protein, fat, calcium, and zinc and increased consumption of crude fiber, potassium, vitamin
    > > >>A, and ascorbic acid. The low dietary intake of zinc by vegetarian women was believed to
    > > >>result from liberal use of foods low in zinc such as fruits and vegetables, whereas vegetarian
    > > >>men primarily consumed zinc-rich food such as legumes and cheeses Lacto-ovo-vegetarians
    > > >>consumed twice the amount of crude fiber consumed by non-vegetarians and vegans four times as
    > > >>much. The zinc content of salivary sediment was significantly lower in vegetarians than in
    > > >>non-vegetarians; vegans had the lowest mean level... http://tinyurl.com/wzje
    > > >>
    > > >>Vegetarian diets in the United States typically contain between 10 and 30 percent less zinc
    > > >>than nonvegetarian diets.
    > > >>
    > > >>And they also contribute a lot of fiber and phytic acid, which tend to tie up minerals and
    > > >>make them less available for absorption....
    > > >>
    > > >>The women... absorbed less zinc from the vegetarian diet—21 percent less. Combined with the 14
    > > >>percent lower zinc content of the vegetarian diet, the women absorbed a total of 35 percent
    > > >>less zinc. And their blood zinc levels were 5 percent lower after 8 weeks on the vegetarian
    > > >>diet. http://tinyurl.com/wzjk
    > > >>
    > > >>The last article continues that the women weren't at any health risk, but then again women
    > > >>don't need zinc to produce healthy sperm. Men do: http://www.ein.org/fitsperm.htm
    > > >
    > > > and..
    > > >
    > > > 'An American study found that organically grown food contained much higher average levels of
    > > > minerals than non-organic food. For example, there was 63 per cent more calcium, 73 per cent
    > > > more iron, 125 per cent more potassium and 60 per cent more zinc in the organically produced
    > > > foods. There was also 29 per cent less of the toxic element mercury.'
    > > > http://www.ekolantbruk.se/PDFer/Myth%20and%20reality.pdf
    > >
    > > Completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, turd-brain. My cat is smarter than you are.
    >
    > Were the people in the studies you cite eating organic produce?
    >
    > I reckon everyone here gets it apart from you, psycho #3.

    Now the above is what I call really BAD manners as well as IGNORANCE and self aggrandizement to
    the MAX! If it weren't so IGNORANT it may have been useful??? FOOD in the USA has become a JOKE
    as every bad habit in the book has made an UN-healthy populace even more plethoric.

    The word "ORGANIC" again is NOT well understood it is a reality that SOILS and care are NOT as
    they should be for same. Most good Organics are being shipped from CHINA as well. It's become
    BIG business over there. Our malthusian Gov't is laughing in privacy as well! IGNORANCE
    aboundeth and education is rare.

    We are living in the FINAL "gifted" times and so far all Biblical Prophecies are big fulfilled.
    I'm NOT a religious zealot, but SCIENCE does NOT lie. Go to NASA.GOV.SOHO etc, and get an
    eyefull of our DEAD SUN being drained of it last pound of energy artificially! We do NOT have
    the SCIENCE to have done this SO "ALIENS" of the highest Scientific caliber obviously exist!!
    The Earth as well as the 5 inner planetary groups would have been vaporised in 1998 and all
    civilization destroyed if it has NOT been for the ALIEN interventions thus far. Nov 1997 was the
    "turning" point AND the Beginning of the END as predicted in 2nd Peter and subsequent Biblical
    literature. Did they know something we overlooked?? Obviously so! B-0b1

    --
    "Beaten Paths are for Beaten People". -- Anon.
     
  7. Dolores

    Dolores Guest

    "Ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Aged Ray wrote:

    > > >
    > > > A load of bollocks:)
    > >
    > > Okay, then, easier on the soy. I know you'll take what you can get at your age, especially after
    > > you take one of your little blue pills. Just follow it up with zinc supplements, wheat germ,
    > > and/or cashews.
    > >
    > >
    > http://www.solidrecords.com/Net_Vibes/Food_Connection/Nutrition_Center/zinc.html
    >
    > No need for any of that crap US.
    >
    > Three or four pints of best Yorkshire bitter and a strict vegetarian diet is all I need. Forget
    > about the age, 6' -1", 12 stone and I can still manage a 4mile run every day - weather permitting.
    > No hair loss and all my own teeth - more than ~~jonnie~~ can say.
    >
    > Oh! one last thing - stress. It is imporatnt to rule stress from your life. I have never worked
    > more than 37hrs per week in my life. I have now cut this down to 30max. The only stress I have is
    > seeing how much tax I pay to keep all the social security dole scroungers and foreigners we have
    > in this country.
    >
    > One last thing, perhaps the most important - cellphones. I have one, someone gave me it to me 4
    > years ago, it's resided in my car ever since. I detest the things. I keep it there in case of
    > emergency. I don't even know the number. I just pay the rental and keep the nicads charged. If I'm
    > at home or work I can be contacted, the rest of my life is 'My' personal time. Bugger all the
    > stress imposed by present day society, it's a serious health hazard.
    >
    > I see little point in being the richest man in the graveyard.
    > >

    I believe that by law, every cell phone must be able to dial 911. You don't have to subscribe to a
    service in order to do this.

    D
     
  8. lobotomized lesley wrote:

    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>>activity and a vegetarian diet decreases (or can) decrease the size of your testicles and
    >>>>>>fertility, does anyone know if there is any fact in this and if so, is there a nutritional
    >>>>>>aspect?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>To note;
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Br J Cancer 2000 Jul;83(1):95-7 Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal
    >>>>>bioavailable androgens in vegan men.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Allen NE, Appleby PN, Davey GK, Key TJ. Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Imperial Cancer Research
    >>>>>Fund, Radcliffe Infirmary, Oxford, UK.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Mean serum insulin-like growth factor-I [IGF-I] was 9% lower in 233 vegan men than in 226
    >>>>> meat-eaters and 237 vegetarians (P = 0.002). Vegans had higher testosterone levels than
    >>>>> vegetarians and meat-eaters,

    >>>>>were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or
    >>>>>luteinizing hormone.
    >>>>
    >>>>This has *no* bearing on sperm production. Difference in testosterone is more likely due to age:
    >>>>vegans, as a group, probably have a lower mean age. The meat-eaters are more likely to have a
    >>>>higher mean age. From the abstract, no data are given for age.
    >>>
    >>>BS.
    >>
    >>Support your claim, dunce. <restore of undocumented snip in support of my claims>
    >
    > Your claim is that *in the study*;

    No, my claim was not specific to the study's abstract. Read it again, you retarded slut: This has
    *no* bearing on sperm production. Difference in testosterone is more likely due to age: vegans, as a
    group, probably have a lower mean age. The meat-eaters are more likely to have a higher mean age.
    From the abstract, no data are given for age.

    The question at issue from the OP's post is zinc intake with respect to male fertility. Without
    zinc, sperm production suffers in both quality and quantity. A vegan diet is lacking in zinc (see
    other posts for numerous supporting citations). Your two sources beg the issue. Zinc in organic
    versus conventional agriculture is irrelevant: a 50% increase in the minute amounts of zinc found in
    most foods included in a "vegan" is still going to be deficient. The study about testosterone is
    most likely age-skewed. Consider the following: Dr Longcope and colleagues looked at globulin levels
    in 1,552 men aged between 40 and 70. Protein and fibre intake levels were

    body mass, they said in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism.

    He said: "The decrease in bioavailable testosterone can then

    contribute to the loss of bone density."

    And high protein diets could increase the available testosterone, though further research
    into this areas was needed, he said. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/613396.stm

    > "vegans, as a group, probably have a lower mean age. The meat-eaters are more likely to have a
    > higher mean age." That's nothing but BS conjecture, and it is _not_ supported by what you
    > posted below.

    What I posted supports my claim. So, too, does the demographic data from the pro-vegan site I later
    added in support. Veganism is a trendy fad of the young, not the elderly. Find the full study and
    see if the study was age-weighted.

    >> As men age, testosterone levels begin to fall from the age of 40 years. Some estimates
    >> suggest that by the age of 65 years, 10% of men will have androgen deficiency and by the age
    >> of 70 years this figure will have risen to over 20%.
    >> http://www.andrologyaustralia.org/testosterone/default.htm
    >>
    >>Most of the vegans (especially males) whom I know are in their late teens and early 20s. Ray is an
    >>anomaly and the fact he still has all his hair at his age is a sign of low testosterone,
    >>specifically DHT.
    >>
    >> Men develop a typical pattern of baldness, associated with the presence of the male hormone
    >> testosterone. Men who do not produce testosterone (because of genetic abnormalities or
    >> castration) do not develop this pattern of baldness.
    >> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003246.htm
    >>
    >>Try again, quack.
    >
    > Try again lying quackpot.

    You try again, shithead. The pro-vegan demographic data show that vegans are typically young (< age
    35) and female. Men start producing less testosterone at around age 30. Any study of vegan men
    versus those who eat meat MUST consider age a factor (e.g., testing similarly aged groups rather
    than simply vegans and meat-eaters) or weight the results. Without more details about methodology,
    your study is suspect for the reasons I've given.

    See also http://www.wellmanclinic.org/paper2b.html
     
  9. lobotomized lesley wrote:
    >>Another source linked below for your consideration.
    >>
    >>pearl wrote:
    >>

    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>>activity and a vegetarian diet decreases (or can) decrease the size of your testicles and
    >>>>>>fertility, does anyone know if there is any fact in this and if so, is there a nutritional
    >>>>>>aspect?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>To note;
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Br J Cancer 2000 Jul;83(1):95-7 Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal
    >>>>>bioavailable androgens in vegan men.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Allen NE, Appleby PN, Davey GK, Key TJ. Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Imperial Cancer Research
    >>>>>Fund, Radcliffe Infirmary, Oxford, UK.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Mean serum insulin-like growth factor-I [IGF-I] was 9% lower in 233 vegan men than in 226
    >>>>> meat-eaters and 237 vegetarians (P = 0.002). Vegans had higher testosterone levels than
    >>>>> vegetarians and meat-eaters,

    >>>>>were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or
    >>>>>luteinizing hormone.
    >>>>
    >>>>This has *no* bearing on sperm production. Difference in testosterone is more likely due to age:
    >>>>vegans, as a group, probably have a lower mean age. The meat-eaters are more likely to have a
    >>>>higher mean age. From the abstract, no data are given for age.
    >>>
    >>>BS.
    >>
    >>Read it and weep, slut.
    >
    > Were you raised in a brothel?

    No.

    > Sure sounds like it, pervert.

    Tell that to your foot fetishists who pay you for their jollies.

    >>From: http://www.imaner.net/panel/profile.htm Vegan demographics: Most likely to be female and
    >>under 35
    >>
    >>AGE Vegans UKvegans USAvegans 16-24 21% 14% 36% 25-34 40% 39% 44% 35-44 25% 32% 11% 45-54 10% 11%
    >>7% 55+ 4% 4% 2%
    >>
    >>Vegans UK Vegans USA Vegans Male 33% 36% 22% Female 67% 64% 78%
    >>
    >>Where was the study performed? What were the ages of the participants?
    >
    > You think the researchers aren't aware of the effects of age on testerone production, and were
    > likely to compare different age-groups?

    I would hope so, but the abstract is entirely silent on the issue.

    > Well, if that's the illogical tack you wish to pursue, go right ahead and prove it. :)

    Every source dealing with the issues of zinc, which is the question at issue, suggests veg-n diets
    are deficient. As for testosterone, your source is vague. All other sources I've added or reviewed
    show that age-skewing is far more likely to be responsible for the difference than diet.

    >><restore of your undocumented snip of support>
    >
    > It is _not_ support for your illogical conjecture.

    My "conjecture" is entirely logical. You'd accept that if you had half a brain.

    >> As men age, testosterone levels begin to fall from the age of 40 years. Some estimates
    >> suggest that by the age of 65 years, 10% of men will have androgen deficiency and by the age
    >> of 70 years this figure will have risen to over 20%.
    >> http://www.andrologyaustralia.org/testosterone/default.htm
    >>
    >>Most of the vegans (especially males) whom I know are in their late teens and early 20s. Ray is an
    >>anomaly and the fact he still has all his hair at his age is a sign of low testosterone,
    >>specifically DHT.
    >>
    >> Men develop a typical pattern of baldness, associated with the presence of the male hormone
    >> testosterone. Men who do not produce testosterone (because of genetic abnormalities or
    >> castration) do not develop this pattern of baldness.
    >> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003246.htm
    >>
    >>Try again, quack.
    >
    > Try again, lying quackpot.

    No need to. My case is sound. You understand neither science nor logic.
     
  10. lobotomized lesley wrote:

    >>>>>>>activity and a vegetarian diet decreases (or can) decrease the size of your testicles and
    >>>>>>>fertility, does anyone know if there is any fact in this and if so, is there a nutritional
    >>>>>>>aspect?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Semen production requires a lot of zinc, which is often lacking in vegetarian diets.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>'An American study found that organically grown food contained much higher average levels of
    >>>>>minerals than non-organic food. For example, there was 63 per cent more calcium, 73 per cent
    >>>>>more iron, 125 per cent more potassium and 60 per cent more zinc in the organically produced
    >>>>>foods. There was also 29 per cent less of the toxic element mercury.'
    >>>>>http://www.ekolantbruk.se/PDFer/Myth%20and%20reality.pdf
    >>>>
    >>>>You illiterate slut.
    >>>
    >>>You ignorant low-life liar.
    >>
    >>You've cornered the market on ignorance, you filthy skag.
    >>
    >>
    >>>>The question wasn't between organic and conventional. The question is between *types* of diets.
    >>>>
    >>>>Studies show that vegetarian diets often contain less zinc than meat-diets, so vegetarians need
    >>>>to eat plenty of foods that are rich in zinc.
    >>>>http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/zinc-vegetarian-diet.htm
    >>>>
    >>>>Avoidance of animal products in the diet was associated with decreased intakes of energy,
    >>>>protein, fat, calcium, and zinc and increased consumption of crude fiber, potassium, vitamin A,
    >>>>and ascorbic acid. The low dietary intake of zinc by vegetarian women was believed to result
    >>>>from liberal use of foods low in zinc such as fruits and vegetables, whereas vegetarian men
    >>>>primarily consumed zinc-rich food such as legumes and cheeses Lacto-ovo-vegetarians consumed
    >>>>twice the amount of crude fiber consumed by non-vegetarians and vegans four times as much. The
    >>>>zinc content of salivary sediment was significantly lower in vegetarians than in
    >>>>non-vegetarians; vegans had the lowest mean level... http://tinyurl.com/wzje
    >>>>
    >>>>Vegetarian diets in the United States typically contain between 10 and 30 percent less zinc than
    >>>>nonvegetarian diets.
    >>>>
    >>>>And they also contribute a lot of fiber and phytic acid, which tend to tie up minerals and make
    >>>>them less available for absorption....
    >>>>
    >>>>The women... absorbed less zinc from the vegetarian diet—21 percent less. Combined with the 14
    >>>>percent lower zinc content of the vegetarian diet, the women absorbed a total of 35 percent less
    >>>>zinc. And their blood zinc levels were 5 percent lower after 8 weeks on the vegetarian diet.
    >>>>http://tinyurl.com/wzjk
    >>>>
    >>>>The last article continues that the women weren't at any health risk, but then again women don't
    >>>>need zinc to produce healthy sperm. Men do: http://www.ein.org/fitsperm.htm
    >>>
    >>>and..
    >>>
    >>>'An American study found that organically grown food contained much higher average levels of
    >>>minerals than non-organic food. For example, there was 63 per cent more calcium, 73 per cent more
    >>>iron, 125 per cent more potassium and 60 per cent more zinc in the organically produced foods.
    >>>There was also 29 per cent less of the toxic element mercury.'
    >>>http://www.ekolantbruk.se/PDFer/Myth%20and%20reality.pdf
    >>
    >>Completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, turd-brain. My cat is smarter than you are.
    >
    > Were the people in the studies you cite eating organic produce?

    Irrelevant. Your unnamed study taken from a leftwing Swedish site says organic foods on average
    contain 60% more zinc -- this may or may not be true. The following survey was limited, but the
    methodology is given.

    We purchased organic produce from a Toronto outlet. All samples were clearly marked organic,
    usually with a sticker detailing organic certification. The geographical source of the food
    was not an issue.

    Samples of 20 different fruits and vegetables were delivered same day to the lab at the
    University of Guelph, where they were tested using the same methodology used to test food
    samples to meet Health Canada's requirements.

    We compared the test results to food analysis charts provided by Health Canada's Nutrient
    Content of some common foods table, 1999 version.

    ....Sodium and Zinc levels were negligible.

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20020707/organic_charts_020707/

    I found no other mention for your dubious source, but I found plenty others making claims which seem
    outlandish given the amount of zinc in most vegetables and fruits.

    Even if we accept your source, does that really make much difference for someone whose diet is
    deficient? The difference between getting 5mg of zinc and 8mg is irrelevant when the RDA is 15mg.
    Rather than having a 67% deficiency, one is still nearly 50% deficient.

    > I reckon everyone here gets it apart from you, psycho #3.

    I don't think YOU get it at all.
     
  11. BoOb1 wrote: <snip>
    > We are living in the FINAL "gifted" times and so far all Biblical Prophecies are big
    > fulfilled. I'm NOT a religious zealot,

    Yes, you are.

    > but SCIENCE does NOT lie.

    People misuse and misrepresent science all the time. The person to whom you responded, "pearl,"
    doesn't comprehend the scientific method, and is prone to spreading pseudoscience as well as her
    peculiar misunderstandings of science.

    > Go to NASA.GOV.SOHO etc, and get an eyefull of our DEAD SUN being drained of it last pound of
    > energy artificially! We do NOT have the SCIENCE to have done this SO "ALIENS" of the highest
    > Scientific caliber obviously exist!! The Earth as well as the 5 inner planetary groups would have
    > been vaporised in 1998 and all civilization destroyed if it has NOT been for the ALIEN
    > interventions thus far. Nov 1997 was the "turning" point AND the Beginning of the END as predicted
    > in 2nd Peter and subsequent Biblical literature. Did they know something we overlooked?? Obviously
    > so! B-0b1

    Keep your foil hat on and hold on tight. *yawn*
     
  12. dolores wrote: <snip>
    > I believe that by law, every cell phone must be able to dial 911. You don't have to subscribe to a
    > service in order to do this.

    Ray is in England. Dialing 911 won't help him. They use 999.
     
  13. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    ZINC

    Men need 15 mgs/day. Women should get 12 mg/day. Children need 10 to 15 mg/day. Vegetarians need
    about 50 percent more zinc in their diet than meat eaters.
    http://www.healthalternatives2000.com/minchart.htm#zinc

    So; Vegetarian men need 22.5 mgs/day. Vegetarian women should get 18 mg/day. Vegetarian children
    need 15 to 22.5 mg/day.

    A 150 pound person doing light labour burns 2000 calories per day .

    USDA Food Zinc-mg. Description * /1000 Cal.

    Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00 Asparagus, cooked, boiled, drained 17.86 Beans, snap,
    green, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 10.23 Beans, white, mature seeds, canned 9.54 Broccoli, raw
    14.00 Cabbage, savoy, raw 10.00 Celery, raw 8.33 Cereals, oats, quick,instant,unenriched,cooked,w/o
    salt 7.93 Chick peas (garbanzo beans, bengal g) mature seeds, canned
    8.88
    Chives,
    raw 20.00
    Coffee,
    brewed,
    prepared
    with tap
    water
    10.00
    Cowpeas
    (Blackey-
    es),
    immature
    seeds bo-
    iled,dra-
    ined,w/o
    10.63 Cu-
    cumber,
    peeled,
    raw 15.00
    Cucumber,
    with
    peel, raw
    - - - - -
    15.38
    Endive,
    raw 44.44
    Lentils,
    mature
    seeds co-
    oked,boi-
    led w/o
    salt - -
    10.91
    Lettuce,
    cosor
    romaine,
    raw 17.50
    Lettuce,-
    iceberg,
    includes
    crisphead
    types,
    raw 17.14
    Lettuce,
    looselea-
    f, raw
    16.00
    Miso
    16.06 Mu-
    shrooms,
    raw 28.33
    Mushroom-
    s, shiit-
    ake,
    cooked,
    without
    salt
    24.13 Oat
    bran, raw
    12.64
    Okra,
    cooked,
    boiled,
    drained,
    without
    salt
    17.25
    Onions,
    spring or
    scallions
    (includes
    tops &
    bulb),
    raw 12.00
    Palm,
    hearts,
    canned
    42.22
    Parsley,
    raw 27.50
    Peanuts,
    all
    types,
    oil-roas-
    ted, with
    salt - -
    - 11.39
    Pumpkin,
    cooked,
    boiled,
    drained,
    w/o salt
    11.43 Ra-
    dishes,
    raw - - -
    10.00 Ra-
    spberrie-
    s, raw -
    - - - - -
    9.50
    Seaweed,
    kelp, raw
    30.00
    Spinach,
    cooked,
    boiled,
    drained,
    without
    salt - -
    33.41
    Spinach,
    raw 22.86
    Squash,
    summer,
    all vari-
    eties,
    raw 12.61
    Wheat
    germ
    44.11

    http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/copperzinc.html. *selected vegetarian foods with higher zinc
    content. See link for zinc content in various other foods.

    'Studies have shown that the mineral content of foods such as fruit and vegetables has decreased
    over the years. A study by David Thomas* makes alarming reading. Using government data on the
    chemical composition of various foods between 1940-1991, Thomas shows, for example, that for seven
    vegetables analysed between 1978-1991 the average reduction in zinc was 59% and for copper it was a
    staggering 72%.

    A reduction in the mineral content of food may apply equally across the board to organic and
    non-organic food because neither organic or conventional farmers replace the all-important trace
    minerals such as zinc in the soil.
    http://www.familiesonline.co.uk/topics/health/health_organic_food_farming.htm

    'Over a two-year period, Bob Smith, the study's author and president of Doctor's Data, a trace
    minerals laboratory in West Chicago, Ill., compared organic and conventional apples, pears,
    potatoes, corn and wheat. Among his findings: The organic produce contained, on average, 63 per cent
    more calcium, 59 per cent more iron and 60 per cent more zinc; overall, the organic foods contained
    more of 20 out of 22 trace elements studied. http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/SF/Summer%2094%20A.htm

    USDA# and ORGANIC (remineralized soil)* Food Zinc-mg. Description /1000 Cal.
    #
    *
    Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00 48.00 Asparagus, cooked, boiled, drained 17.86 28.57
    Beans, snap, green, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 10.23 16.33 Beans, white, mature seeds, canned
    9.54 15.26 Broccoli, raw 14.00 22.4 Cabbage, savoy, raw 10.00 16.00 Celery, raw 8.33 13.32 Cereals,
    oats, quick,instant,unenriched,cooked,w/o salt 7.93 12.68 Chick peas (garbanzo beans, bengal g)
    mature seeds, canned
    9.88 14.2
    Chives,
    raw 20.00
    32.00
    Cowpeas
    (Blackeye-
    s),
    immature
    seeds boi-
    led,drain-
    ed, 10.63
    17.00
    Cucumber,
    peeled,
    raw 15.00
    24.00
    Cucumber,
    with peel,
    raw - - -
    - - 15.38
    24.61
    Endive,
    raw 44.44
    71.1
    Lentils,
    mature
    seeds coo-
    ked,boiled
    w/o salt -
    - 10.91
    17.45
    Lettuce,
    cosor
    romaine,
    raw 17.50
    28.00 Let-
    tuce,iceb-
    erg,
    includes
    crisphead
    types, raw
    17.14
    27.42
    Lettuce,
    looseleaf,
    raw 16.00
    25.6 Miso
    16.06
    25.69 Mus-
    hrooms,
    raw 28.33
    45.33 Mus-
    hrooms,
    shiitake,
    cooked,
    without
    salt 24.13
    38.61 Oat
    bran, raw
    12.64
    20.22
    Okra,
    cooked,
    boiled,
    drained,
    without
    salt 17.25
    27.6
    Onions,
    spring or
    scallions
    (includes
    tops &
    bulb), raw
    12.00 19.2
    Palm,
    hearts,
    canned
    42.22
    67.55
    Parsley,
    raw 27.50
    44
    Peanuts,
    all types,
    oil-roast-
    ed, with
    salt - - -
    11.39
    18.22
    Pumpkin,
    cooked,
    boiled,
    drained,
    w/o salt
    11.43
    18.29
    Radishes,
    raw - - -
    10.00 16
    Raspberri-
    es, raw -
    - - - - -
    9.50 15.2
    Seaweed,
    kelp, raw
    30.00 48
    Spinach,
    cooked,
    boiled,
    drained,
    without
    salt - -
    33.41
    53.46
    Spinach,
    raw 22.86
    36.58
    Squash,
    summer,
    all varie-
    ties, raw
    12.61
    20.17
    Wheat germ
    44.11
    70.57

    Beef, ground, 85% lean meat, variety meats, etc 25.16
     
  14. dunce wrote:
    > ZINC
    >
    > Men need 15 mgs/day. Women should get 12 mg/day. Children need 10 to 15 mg/day. Vegetarians need
    > about 50 percent more zinc in their diet than meat eaters.
    > http://www.healthalternatives2000.com/minchart.htm#zinc
    >
    > So; Vegetarian men need 22.5 mgs/day. Vegetarian women should get 18 mg/day. Vegetarian children
    > need 15 to 22.5 mg/day.
    >
    > A 150 pound person doing light labour burns 2000 calories per day .
    >
    > USDA Food Zinc-mg. Description * /1000 Cal.
    >
    > Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00

    3 kg of alfalfa sprouts per day? I don't think so.

    > Asparagus, cooked, boiled, drained 17.86 Beans, snap, green, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt
    > 10.23 Beans, white, mature seeds, canned 9.54 Broccoli, raw 14.00 Cabbage, savoy, raw 10.00
    > Celery, raw 8.33 Cereals, oats, quick,instant,unenriched,cooked,w/o salt 7.93 Chick peas (garbanzo
    > beans, bengal g) mature seeds, canned
    > 8.88 Chi-
    > ves,
    > raw
    > 20.00
    > Coffee,
    > brewed,
    > prepar-
    > ed with
    > tap
    > water
    > 10.00
    > Cowpeas
    > (Black-
    > eyes),
    > immatu-
    > re
    > seeds
    > boiled-
    > ,drain-
    > ed,w/o
    > 10.63
    > Cucumb-
    > er, pe-
    > eled,
    > raw
    > 15.00
    > Cucumb-
    > er,
    > with
    > peel,
    > raw - -
    > - - -
    > 15.38
    > Endive,
    > raw
    > 44.44
    > Lentil-
    > s,
    > mature
    > seeds
    > cooked-
    > ,boiled
    > w/o
    > salt -
    > - 10.91
    > Lettuc-
    > e,
    > cosor
    > romain-
    > e, raw
    > 17.50
    > Lettuc-
    > e,iceb-
    > erg,
    > includ-
    > es cri-
    > sphead
    > types,
    > raw
    > 17.14
    > Lettuc-
    > e, loo-
    > seleaf,
    > raw
    > 16.00
    > Miso
    > 16.06
    > Mushro-
    > oms,
    > raw
    > 28.33

    4 kg of mushrooms per day? I don't think so.

    > Mushrooms, shiitake, cooked, without salt 24.13 Oat bran, raw 12.64 Okra, cooked, boiled, drained,
    > without salt 17.25 Onions, spring or scallions (includes tops & bulb), raw 12.00 Palm, hearts,
    > canned 42.22 Parsley, raw 27.50 Peanuts, all types, oil-roasted, with salt - - - 11.39 Pumpkin,
    > cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 11.43 Radishes, raw - - - 10.00 Raspberries, raw - - - - - -
    > 9.50 Seaweed, kelp, raw 30.00 Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt - - 33.41

    4.3 kg per day of boiled/drained spinach? I don't think so. Per 100 g: Zinc Mg : 0.760

    > Spinach, raw 22.86 Squash, summer, all varieties, raw 12.61 Wheat germ 44.11

    Good, wheat germ is oily so that 1000 calories should be easier to obtain. One-half cup (200g)
    should do the trick. That's still a lot of wheat germ, though.

    > http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/copperzinc.html. *selected vegetarian foods with higher zinc
    > content. See link for zinc content in various other foods.

    No wonder veg-ns are at risk of zinc deficiency. In order to get 22.5 mg of zinc, one would have to
    eat 4.5kg (almost 10 pounds!) of sprouts, 6kg (over 13 pounds) of mushrooms, 4.3kg (almost 10
    pounds!) of boiled spinach, or 3/4 cup of wheat germ PER DAY. I don't know how much YOU eat,
    Chelsea, but the rest of us don't have time to graze all freaking day.

    Compare all of that to 100g (about a quarter pound) of beef tenderloin trimmed lean and roasted --
    that little piece of meat has over 5mg of zinc, which is over one-third of the USRDA. One oyster --
    ONE ITTY, BITTY OYSTER -- has more than 6x the USRDA for zinc.

    <snip rest of your stupid BS
     
  15. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    not very bright "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    pearl wrote: <..>
    > >>>>>Br J Cancer 2000 Jul;83(1):95-7 Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but
    > >>>>>normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>Allen NE, Appleby PN, Davey GK, Key TJ. Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Imperial Cancer Research
    > >>>>>Fund, Radcliffe Infirmary, Oxford, UK.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> Mean serum insulin-like growth factor-I [IGF-I] was 9% lower in 233 vegan men than in 226
    > >>>>> meat-eaters and 237 vegetarians (P = 0.002). Vegans had higher testosterone levels than
    > >>>>> vegetarians and meat-eaters,

    > >>>>>were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or
    > >>>>>luteinizing hormone.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>This has *no* bearing on sperm production. Difference in testosterone is more likely due to
    > >>>>age: vegans, as a group, probably have a lower mean age. The meat-eaters are more likely to
    > >>>>have a higher mean age. From the abstract, no data are given for age.
    <..>
    > >> As men age, testosterone levels begin to fall from the age of 40 years. Some estimates
    > >> suggest that by the age of 65 years, 10% of men will have androgen deficiency and by the
    > >> age of 70 years this figure will have risen to over 20%.
    > >> http://www.andrologyaustralia.org/testosterone/default.htm

    *'there were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or
    luteinizing hormone.'*, indicating that the age groups studied were the same.

    Perhaps you'd like to argue that 'the younger' vegans you suggest were compared in a study to
    'older' meat eaters, produce less free testosterone than their peers, despite the higher
    testosterone levels?
     
  16. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    thicko "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > pearl wrote:
    > > ZINC
    > >
    > > Men need 15 mgs/day. Women should get 12 mg/day. Children need 10 to 15 mg/day. Vegetarians need
    > > about 50 percent more zinc in their diet than meat eaters.
    > > http://www.healthalternatives2000.com/minchart.htm#zinc
    > >
    > > So; Vegetarian men need 22.5 mgs/day. Vegetarian women should get 18 mg/day. Vegetarian children
    > > need 15 to 22.5 mg/day.
    > >
    > > A 150 pound person doing light labour burns 2000 calories per day .
    > >
    > > USDA Food Zinc-mg. Description * /1000 Cal.
    > >
    > > Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00
    >
    > 3 kg of alfalfa sprouts per day? I don't think so.

    No. A varied veg*n diet will do, as long as the foods are high quality.

    > > Asparagus, cooked, boiled, drained 17.86 Beans, snap, green, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt
    > > 10.23 Beans, white, mature seeds, canned 9.54 Broccoli, raw 14.00 Cabbage, savoy, raw 10.00
    > > Celery, raw 8.33 Cereals, oats, quick,instant,unenriched,cooked,w/o salt 7.93 Chick peas
    > > (garbanzo beans, bengal g) mature seeds, canned
    > > 8.88
    > > Chiv-
    > > es,
    > > raw
    > > 20.00
    > > Coff-
    > > ee,
    > > brew-
    > > ed,
    > > prep-
    > > ared
    > > with
    > > tap
    > > water
    > > 10.00
    > > Cowp-
    > > eas
    > > (Bla-
    > > ckey-
    > > es),
    > > imma-
    > > ture
    > > seeds
    > > boil-
    > > ed,d-
    > > rain-
    > > ed,w-
    > > /o
    > > 10.63
    > > Cucu-
    > > mber,
    > > peel-
    > > ed,
    > > raw
    > > 15.00
    > > Cucu-
    > > mber,
    > > with
    > > peel,
    > > raw -
    > > - - -
    > > - 15-
    > > .38
    > > Endi-
    > > ve,
    > > raw
    > > 44.44
    > > Lent-
    > > ils,
    > > matu-
    > > re
    > > seeds
    > > cook-
    > > ed,b-
    > > oiled
    > > w/o
    > > salt
    > > - -
    > > 10.91
    > > Lett-
    > > uce,
    > > cosor
    > > roma-
    > > ine,
    > > raw
    > > 17.50
    > > Lett-
    > > uce,-
    > > iceb-
    > > erg,
    > > incl-
    > > udes
    > > cris-
    > > phead
    > > type-
    > > s,
    > > raw
    > > 17.14
    > > Lett-
    > > uce,
    > > loos-
    > > elea-
    > > f,
    > > raw
    > > 16.00
    > > Miso
    > > 16.06
    > > Mush-
    > > room-
    > > s,
    > > raw
    > > 28.33
    >
    > 4 kg of mushrooms per day? I don't think so.
    >
    > > Mushrooms, shiitake, cooked, without salt 24.13 Oat bran, raw 12.64 Okra, cooked, boiled,
    > > drained, without salt 17.25 Onions, spring or scallions (includes tops & bulb), raw 12.00 Palm,
    > > hearts, canned 42.22 Parsley, raw 27.50 Peanuts, all types, oil-roasted, with salt - - - 11.39
    > > Pumpkin, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 11.43 Radishes, raw - - - 10.00 Raspberries, raw - -
    > > - - - - 9.50 Seaweed, kelp, raw 30.00 Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt - - 33.41
    >
    > 4.3 kg per day of boiled/drained spinach? I don't think so. Per 100 g: Zinc Mg : 0.760
    >
    > > Spinach, raw 22.86 Squash, summer, all varieties, raw 12.61 Wheat germ 44.11
    >
    > Good, wheat germ is oily so that 1000 calories should be easier to obtain. One-half cup (200g)
    > should do the trick. That's still a lot of wheat germ, though.

    Silly strawman.

    > > http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/copperzinc.html. *selected vegetarian foods with higher
    > > zinc content. See link for zinc content in various other foods.

    <snip rest of your stupid BS>

    'Studies have shown that the mineral content of foods such as fruit and vegetables has decreased
    over the years. A study by David Thomas* makes alarming reading. Using government data on the
    chemical composition of various foods between 1940-1991, Thomas shows, for example, that for seven
    vegetables analysed between 1978-1991 the average reduction in zinc was 59% and for copper it was a
    staggering 72%.

    A reduction in the mineral content of food may apply equally across the board to organic and
    non-organic food because neither organic or conventional farmers replace the all-important trace
    minerals such as zinc in the soil.
    http://www.familiesonline.co.uk/topics/health/health_organic_food_farming.htm

    'Over a two-year period, Bob Smith, the study's author and president of Doctor's Data, a trace
    minerals laboratory in West Chicago, Ill., compared organic and conventional apples, pears,
    potatoes, corn and wheat. Among his findings: The organic produce contained, on average, 63 per cent
    more calcium, 59 per cent more iron and 60 per cent more zinc; overall, the organic foods contained
    more of 20 out of 22 trace elements studied. http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/SF/Summer%2094%20A.htm

    USDA# and ORGANIC (remineralized soil)* Food Zinc-mg. Description /1000 Cal.
    #
    *
    Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00 48.00 Asparagus, cooked, boiled, drained 17.86 28.57
    Beans, snap, green, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 10.23 16.33 Beans, white, mature seeds, canned
    9.54 15.26 Broccoli, raw 14.00 22.4 Cabbage, savoy, raw 10.00 16.00 Celery, raw 8.33 13.32 Cereals,
    oats, quick,instant,unenriched,cooked,w/o salt 7.93 12.68 Chick peas (garbanzo beans, bengal g)
    mature seeds, canned
    8.88 14.2
    Chives,
    raw 20.00
    32.00
    Cowpeas
    (Blackeye-
    s),
    immature
    seeds boi-
    led,drain-
    ed, 10.63
    17.00
    Cucumber,
    peeled,
    raw 15.00
    24.00
    Cucumber,
    with peel,
    raw - - -
    - - 15.38
    24.61
    Endive,
    raw 44.44
    71.1
    Lentils,
    mature
    seeds coo-
    ked,boiled
    w/o salt -
    - 10.91
    17.45
    Lettuce,
    cosor
    romaine,
    raw 17.50
    28.00 Let-
    tuce,iceb-
    erg,
    includes
    crisphead
    types, raw
    17.14
    27.42
    Lettuce,
    looseleaf,
    raw 16.00
    25.6 Miso
    16.06
    25.69 Mus-
    hrooms,
    raw 28.33
    45.33 Mus-
    hrooms,
    shiitake,
    cooked,
    without
    salt 24.13
    38.61 Oat
    bran, raw
    12.64
    20.22
    Okra,
    cooked,
    boiled,
    drained,
    without
    salt 17.25
    27.6
    Onions,
    spring or
    scallions
    (includes
    tops &
    bulb), raw
    12.00 19.2
    Palm,
    hearts,
    canned
    42.22
    67.55
    Parsley,
    raw 27.50
    44
    Peanuts,
    all types,
    oil-roast-
    ed, with
    salt - - -
    11.39
    18.22
    Pumpkin,
    cooked,
    boiled,
    drained,
    w/o salt
    11.43
    18.29
    Radishes,
    raw - - -
    10.00 16
    Raspberri-
    es, raw -
    - - - - -
    9.50 15.2
    Seaweed,
    kelp, raw
    30.00 48
    Spinach,
    cooked,
    boiled,
    drained,
    without
    salt - -
    33.41
    53.46
    Spinach,
    raw 22.86
    36.58
    Squash,
    summer,
    all varie-
    ties, raw
    12.61
    20.17
    Wheat germ
    44.11
    70.57

    Beef, ground, 85% lean meat, variety meats, etc 25.16
     
  17. ~~slutweed~~ wrote: <...>
    >>>Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00
    >>
    >>3 kg of alfalfa sprouts per day? I don't think so.
    >
    > No.

    Yes.

    > A varied veg*n diet will do, as long as the foods are high quality.

    How? Most of the foods you listed are very low-calorie, so people would have to gorge themselves in
    order to get sufficient zinc.

    <snip>
    >>>Mushrooms, raw 28.33
    >>
    >>4 kg of mushrooms per day? I don't think so.

    Come on, ~~slutweed~~, tell us who can eat 10 pounds of mushrooms per day.

    <snip>
    >>>Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt - - 33.41
    >>
    >>4.3 kg per day of boiled/drained spinach? I don't think so. Per 100 g: Zinc Mg : 0.760

    This was one of the veggies with high zinc content. How much spinach would one have to eat to make
    up for all the rest of the veggies' deficiencies?

    >>>Spinach, raw 22.86 Squash, summer, all varieties, raw 12.61 Wheat germ 44.11
    >>
    >>Good, wheat germ is oily so that 1000 calories should be easier to obtain. One-half cup (200g)
    >>should do the trick. That's still a lot of wheat germ, though.
    >
    > Silly strawman.

    Not a strawman. Show us how easy it is to get enough zinc on a veg-n diet without resorting
    to supplements. Put together a menu, complete with food weights, containing 22.5mg of veg-n
    zinc for us.

    <snip rest of your stupid BS
     
  18. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    disgusting liar "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:D[email protected]...
    >
    pearl wrote:
    > <...>
    > >>>Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00
    > >>
    > >>3 kg of alfalfa sprouts per day? I don't think so.
    > >
    > > No. A varied veg*n diet will do, as long as the foods are high quality.
    >
    > How? Most of the foods you listed are very low-calorie, so people would have to gorge themselves
    > in order to get sufficient zinc.
    <..>
    > Not a strawman. Show us how easy it is to get enough zinc on a veg-n diet without resorting
    > to supplements. Put together a menu, complete with food weights, containing 22.5mg of veg-n
    > zinc for us.

    Zinc

    Zinc is important for optimal cell growth, rapid wound healing and proper functioning of the immune
    system. Animal products, especially meat, provide 70% of the zinc in the typical American diet.
    Vegetarian intake of zinc is lower than nonvegetarians and the absorption of zinc from plant is
    lower than from animal products. The RDA for zinc is 15 mg for men and 12 mg for women. There is
    some controversy over this figure. In the United States only a small percentage of individuals
    consume the recommended amount of zinc, and yet deficiencies are rarely seen. The World Health
    Organization recommends from one third to three quarters of the USA RDA. Well planned vegetarian
    diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc. Good sources include: whole grain cereals, mushrooms,
    peas, sea vegetables, beans, tofu, tempeh, textured vegetable protein, nuts, wheat germ, milk, and
    cheeses. http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/foodguide/guidelin.html

    * 'Studies have shown that the mineral content of foods such as fruit and vegetables has decreased
    over the years. A study by David Thomas makes alarming reading. Using government data on the
    chemical composition of various foods between 1940-1991, Thomas shows, for example, that for seven
    vegetables analysed between 1978-1991 the average reduction in zinc was 59% and for copper it was a
    staggering 72%.

    A reduction in the mineral content of food may apply equally across the board to organic and
    non-organic food because neither organic or conventional farmers replace the all-important trace
    minerals such as zinc in the soil.
    http://www.familiesonline.co.uk/topics/health/health_organic_food_farming.htm

    'Over a two-year period, Bob Smith, the study's author and president of Doctor's Data, a trace
    minerals laboratory in West Chicago, Ill., compared organic and conventional apples, pears,
    potatoes, corn and wheat. Among his findings: The organic produce contained, on average, 63 per
    cent more calcium, 59 per cent more iron and 60 per cent more zinc; overall, the organic foods
    contained more of 20 out of 22 trace elements studied.
    http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/SF/Summer%2094%20A.htm ) *
     
  19. zinc deficiency wrote:
    >><...>
    >>
    >>>>>Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00
    >>>>
    >>>>3 kg of alfalfa sprouts per day? I don't think so.
    >>>
    >>>No. A varied veg*n diet will do, as long as the foods are high quality.
    >>
    >>How? Most of the foods you listed are very low-calorie, so people would have to gorge themselves
    >>in order to get sufficient zinc.
    >
    > <..>
    >
    >>Not a strawman. Show us how easy it is to get enough zinc on a veg-n diet without resorting
    >>to supplements. Put together a menu, complete with food weights, containing 22.5mg of veg-n
    >>zinc for us.

    You whiffed. Wanna try again or give up now? And I'm not snipping just

    > Zinc
    >
    > Zinc is important for optimal cell growth, rapid wound healing and proper functioning of the
    > immune system. Animal products, especially meat, provide 70% of the zinc in the typical American
    > diet. Vegetarian intake of zinc is lower than nonvegetarians and the absorption of zinc from plant
    > is lower than from animal products. The RDA for zinc is 15 mg for men and 12 mg for women. There
    > is some controversy over this figure. In the United States only a small percentage of individuals
    > consume the recommended amount of zinc, and yet deficiencies are rarely seen. The World Health
    > Organization recommends from one third to three quarters of the USA RDA. Well planned vegetarian
    > diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc. Good sources include: whole grain cereals, mushrooms,
    > peas, sea vegetables, beans, tofu, tempeh, textured vegetable protein, nuts, wheat germ, milk, and
    > cheeses. http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/foodguide/guidelin.html

    Most of the above contain phytates which bind zinc and prevent absorption. Milk and cheese contain
    very little zinc. One eight-ounce serving of milk contains only 5% USRDA of zinc; I guess you'd get
    enough from drinking a gallon a day. I showed you how many pounds of mushrooms it would take to get
    the RDA for zinc.

    > * 'Studies have shown that the mineral content of foods such as fruit and vegetables has decreased
    > over the years. A study by David Thomas makes alarming reading. Using government data on the
    > chemical composition of various foods between 1940-1991, Thomas shows, for example, that for seven
    > vegetables analysed between 1978-1991 the average reduction in zinc was 59% and for copper it was
    > a staggering 72%.
    >
    > A reduction in the mineral content of food may apply equally across the board to organic and
    > non-organic food because neither organic or conventional farmers replace the all-important trace
    > minerals such as zinc in the soil.
    > http://www.familiesonline.co.uk/topics/health/health_organic_food_farming.htm

    Crap.

    > 'Over a two-year period, Bob Smith, the study's author and president of Doctor's Data, a trace
    > minerals laboratory in West Chicago, Ill., compared organic and conventional apples, pears,
    > potatoes, corn and wheat. Among his findings: The organic produce contained, on average, 63 per
    > cent more calcium, 59 per cent more iron and 60 per cent more zinc; overall, the organic foods
    > contained more of 20 out of 22 trace elements studied.
    > http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/SF/Summer%2094%20A.htm ) *

    Evasion.
     
  20. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    LIAR "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    pearl wrote:
    > >><...>
    > >>
    > >>>>>Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00
    > >>>>
    > >>>>3 kg of alfalfa sprouts per day? I don't think so.
    > >>>
    > >>>No. A varied veg*n diet will do, as long as the foods are high quality.
    > >>
    > >>How? Most of the foods you listed are very low-calorie, so people would have to gorge themselves
    > >>in order to get sufficient zinc.
    > >
    > > <..>
    > >
    > >>Not a strawman. Show us how easy it is to get enough zinc on a veg-n diet without resorting to
    > >>supplements. Put together a menu, complete with food weights, containing 22.5mg of veg-n zinc
    > >>for us.
    >
    > You whiffed. Wanna try again or give up now? And I'm not snipping just

    > > Zinc
    > >
    > > Zinc is important for optimal cell growth, rapid wound healing and proper functioning of the
    > > immune system. Animal products, especially meat, provide 70% of the zinc in the typical American
    > > diet. Vegetarian intake of zinc is lower than nonvegetarians and the absorption of zinc from
    > > plant is lower than from animal products. The RDA for zinc is 15 mg for men and 12 mg for women.
    > > There is some controversy over this figure. In the United States only a small percentage of
    > > individuals consume the recommended amount of zinc, and yet deficiencies are rarely seen. The
    > > World Health Organization recommends from one third to three quarters of the USA RDA. Well
    > > planned vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc. Good sources include: whole grain
    > > cereals, mushrooms, peas, sea vegetables, beans, tofu, tempeh, textured vegetable protein, nuts,
    > > wheat germ, milk, and cheeses. http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/foodguide/guidelin.html
    >
    > Most of the above contain phytates which bind zinc and prevent absorption.

    Which is why vegetarians need consume 50% more than the RDA.

    > Milk and cheese contain very little zinc. One eight-ounce serving of milk contains only 5% USRDA
    > of zinc; I guess you'd get enough from drinking a gallon a day. I showed you how many pounds of
    > mushrooms it would take to get the RDA for zinc.

    'Well planned vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc.' It follows that well planned
    vegetarian diets. comprised of high quality produce, can provide as much as 32mg of zinc.

    > > * 'Studies have shown that the mineral content of foods such as fruit and vegetables has
    > > decreased over the years. A study by David Thomas makes alarming reading. Using government data
    > > on the chemical composition of various foods between 1940-1991, Thomas shows, for example, that
    > > for seven vegetables analysed between 1978-1991 the average reduction in zinc was 59% and for
    > > copper it was a staggering 72%.
    > >
    > > A reduction in the mineral content of food may apply equally across the board to organic and
    > > non-organic food because neither organic or conventional farmers replace the all-important trace
    > > minerals such as zinc in the soil.
    > > http://www.familiesonline.co.uk/topics/health/health_organic_food_farming.htm
    >
    > Crap.

    Ipse dixit, liar.

    > > 'Over a two-year period, Bob Smith, the study's author and president of Doctor's Data, a trace
    > > minerals laboratory in West Chicago, Ill., compared organic and conventional apples, pears,
    > > potatoes, corn and wheat. Among his findings: The organic produce contained, on average, 63 per
    > > cent more calcium, 59 per cent more iron and 60 per cent more zinc; overall, the organic foods
    > > contained more of 20 out of 22 trace elements studied.
    > > http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/SF/Summer%2094%20A.htm ) *
    >
    > Evasion.

    We know.
     
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