Testicle Size and Diet

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Anonymous, Nov 28, 2003.

  1. chelsea who counts on her fingers wrote:
    >>>><...>
    >>>>
    >>>>>>>Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>3 kg of alfalfa sprouts per day? I don't think so.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>No. A varied veg*n diet will do, as long as the foods are high quality.
    >>>>
    >>>>How? Most of the foods you listed are very low-calorie, so people would have to gorge themselves
    >>>>in order to get sufficient zinc.
    >>>
    >>><..>
    >>>
    >>>>Not a strawman. Show us how easy it is to get enough zinc on a veg-n diet without resorting to
    >>>>supplements. Put together a menu, complete with food weights, containing 22.5mg of veg-n zinc
    >>>>for us.
    >>
    >>You whiffed. Wanna try again or give up now? And I'm not snipping just

    >

    No, the charge was for you to put together a menu with food weights to reach 22.5mg of zinc. You
    didn't. If you even TRIED to do it, you'd realize you'd have to drop your complaints about binge
    eaters -- that's exactly what your diet, at least unsupplemented, requires to avoid zinc (and iron,
    btw) deficiency.

    Now, now, Chelsea. No need to lash out just because you cannot support your claims.

    >>>Zinc
    >>>
    >>>Zinc is important for optimal cell growth, rapid wound healing and proper functioning of the
    >>>immune system. Animal products, especially meat, provide 70% of the zinc in the typical American
    >>>diet. Vegetarian intake of zinc is lower than nonvegetarians and the absorption of zinc from
    >>>plant is lower than from animal products. The RDA for zinc is 15 mg for men and 12 mg for women.
    >>>There is some controversy over this figure. In the United States only a small percentage of
    >>>individuals consume the recommended amount of zinc, and yet deficiencies are rarely seen. The
    >>>World Health Organization recommends from one third to three quarters of the USA RDA. Well
    >>>planned vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc. Good sources include: whole grain
    >>>cereals, mushrooms, peas, sea vegetables, beans, tofu, tempeh, textured vegetable protein, nuts,
    >>>wheat germ, milk, and cheeses. http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/foodguide/guidelin.html
    >>
    >>Most of the above contain phytates which bind zinc and prevent absorption.
    >
    > Which is why vegetarians need consume 50% more than the RDA.

    At least that much more. What do the serum studies show, though?

    >>Milk and cheese contain very little zinc. One eight-ounce serving of milk contains only 5% USRDA
    >>of zinc; I guess you'd get enough from drinking a gallon a day. I showed you how many pounds of
    >>mushrooms it would take to get the RDA for zinc.
    >
    > 'Well planned vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc.'

    Which is zinc-deficient for males.

    > It follows that well planned vegetarian diets. comprised of high quality produce, can provide as
    > much as 32mg of zinc.

    Ipse dixit.

    -------------
    Organic More Nutritious? Even the Organic Industry Doesn't Think So!

    by Alex Avery

    Is organic food more nutritious? The simple answer is no. While some studies have been trumpeted as
    having finally shown the nutritional superiority of organic foods, other studies of similar crops
    show either no difference or superiority of conventional produce. Many factors affect nutrient and
    mineral content of food, especially produce (genetics, sunlight, moisture, pests, harvest date/time
    of day, time lag from harvest to consumption, etc.). Any differences which may result from the use
    of organic or conventional farming practices cannot be detected.

    But don’t take our word for it. Look at what others have had to say about this question:

    -- Even the organic foods industry has been forced to admit that their products offer no significant
    nutritional advantages. Katherine DiMatteo, spokesperson for the U.S. Organic Trade Association, was
    asked on ABC’s 20/20 (February 4, 2000) whether organic foods were more nutritious than their
    conventional counterparts. She twice responded that “organic foods are as nutritious as any other
    product.” Not more nutritious, merely “as nutritious.”

    --The Tufts University Health & Nutrition letter
    (http://www.phys.com/b_nutrition/02solutions/10tufts/tuftsqa/organic.htm) answered the question
    of whether organic is more nutritious this way: “No one knows. The question is a difficult one
    to study because of all the factors besides farming methods that could affect nutritional
    quality, including soil type and climate. The evidence from the small body of reliable studies
    available thus far does not show any significant differences between the nutrient content of
    organically grown and conventionally grown food.”

    --UC Davis nutritionist Dr. Gail Feenstra says, “As much as I'd like to say yes, unfortunately
    the evidence doesn't show that it is. The studies are equivocal; there are no definitive
    studies that show that organic is much better than conventionally-produced produce."

    --Consumer Reports, a magazine that strongly favors organic foods (and has recommended it
    several times in the past), wrote this after its own evaluation of organic foods Dec. 15, 1997.
    (available at www.consumerreports.com/Special/News/Reports/9712n001.html): “Yet organic produce
    tastes no different than ‘conventionally’ grown produce, and any nutritional differences there
    might be between them are likely so subtle as to evade detection.”

    -- Canada’s Manitoba Agriculture and Food agency
    (www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/homeec/cbd03s01.htm) had this to say: “Nutritional value of plants
    depends on genetics, availability of water, amount of sunlight, maturity when picked, how long
    it took to come to market and whether it was properly handled and refrigerated. Numerous
    laboratory tests have not found any substantial nutritional differences in organically and
    conventionally grown produce.”

    --The Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs
    (http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/research/researchfund/fs2docs/fs7061.htm): “Various
    comparisons have been made on the nutrient content of plants and on other components of
    nutritional quality. Although differences can be found they are not consistent among the
    different experiments that have been conducted. Varying the soil nutrients or other growing
    conditions could conceivably produce similar results. There is no conclusive evidence that
    crops grown organically are either inferior or superior nutritionally. There are major
    differences between experiments and among crops within the same experiment.”

    Dr. Clarence Swanton, professor in the Department of Plant Agriculture at the University of Guelph,
    Ontario, Canada says, “There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that I am aware of that
    [organic food] is nutritionally better for you.”

    http://www.cgfi.org/materials/articles/1999/oct_18_97.htm
    ----------
    See also: http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/OrganicNutrition.html
    http://www.ivillage.co.uk/food/cook/health/articles/0,10103,164370_526834,00.html
    http://www.nature.com/nsu/000831/000831-4.html

    >>>* 'Studies have shown that the mineral content of foods such as fruit and vegetables has
    >>>decreased over the years. A study by David Thomas makes alarming reading. Using government data
    >>>on the chemical composition of various foods between 1940-1991, Thomas shows, for example, that
    >>>for seven vegetables analysed between 1978-1991 the average reduction in zinc was 59% and for
    >>>copper it was a staggering 72%.
    >>>
    >>>A reduction in the mineral content of food may apply equally across the board to organic and
    >>>non-organic food because neither organic or conventional farmers replace the all-important trace
    >>>minerals such as zinc in the soil.
    >>>http://www.familiesonline.co.uk/topics/health/health_organic_food_farming.htm
    >>
    >>Crap.
    >
    > Ipse dixit, liar.

    See above. Not ipse dixit.

    >>>'Over a two-year period, Bob Smith, the study's author and president of Doctor's Data, a trace
    >>>minerals laboratory in West Chicago, Ill., compared organic and conventional apples, pears,
    >>>potatoes, corn and wheat. Among his findings: The organic produce contained, on average, 63 per
    >>>cent more calcium, 59 per cent more iron and 60 per cent more zinc; overall, the organic foods
    >>>contained more of 20 out of 22 trace elements studied.
    >>>http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/SF/Summer%2094%20A.htm ) *
    >>
    >>Evasion.
    >
    > We know.

    Go on then, skank, put together a diet with weights showing how much food must be consumed for a
    veg-n to get a full RDA of zinc.
     


  2. Kramer

    Kramer Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > chelsea who counts on her fingers wrote:
    > >>>><...>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>>>Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>3 kg of alfalfa sprouts per day? I don't think so.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>No. A varied veg*n diet will do, as long as the foods are high quality.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>How? Most of the foods you listed are very low-calorie, so people would have to gorge
    > >>>>themselves in order to get sufficient zinc.
    > >>>
    > >>><..>
    > >>>
    > >>>>Not a strawman. Show us how easy it is to get enough zinc on a veg-n diet without resorting to
    > >>>>supplements. Put together a menu, complete with food weights, containing 22.5mg of veg-n zinc
    > >>>>for us.
    > >>
    > >>You whiffed. Wanna try again or give up now? And I'm not snipping just

    > >

    >
    > No, the charge was for you to put together a menu with food weights to reach 22.5mg of zinc. You
    > didn't. If you even TRIED to do it, you'd realize you'd have to drop your complaints about binge
    > eaters -- that's exactly what your diet, at least unsupplemented, requires to avoid zinc (and
    > iron, btw) deficiency.
    >

    >
    > Now, now, Chelsea. No need to lash out just because you cannot support your claims.
    >
    > >>>Zinc
    > >>>
    > >>>Zinc is important for optimal cell growth, rapid wound healing and proper functioning of the
    > >>>immune system. Animal products, especially meat, provide 70% of the zinc in the typical
    > >>>American diet. Vegetarian intake of zinc is lower than nonvegetarians and the absorption of
    > >>>zinc from plant is lower than from animal products. The RDA for zinc is 15 mg for men and 12 mg
    > >>>for women. There is some controversy over this figure. In the United States only a small
    > >>>percentage of individuals consume the recommended amount of zinc, and yet deficiencies are
    > >>>rarely seen. The World Health Organization recommends from one third to three quarters of the
    > >>>USA RDA. Well planned vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc. Good sources
    > >>>include: whole grain cereals, mushrooms, peas, sea vegetables, beans, tofu, tempeh, textured
    > >>>vegetable protein,

    While the two of you have been very entertaining to many of the rest of us, why don't you both
    abandon the insults now and conclude this by making the best case you can for this unbelievably
    important issue of zinc intake. Then we can talk about whether vegans are really just pointless
    bunny huggers and should see whether they can manage to eat an oyster or a couple ounces of meat in
    a day and make life easier on themselves.
     
  3. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > chelsea who counts on her fingers
    stupid liar
    >
    pearl wrote:
    > >>>><...>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>>>Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>3 kg of alfalfa sprouts per day? I don't think so.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>No. A varied veg*n diet will do, as long as the foods are high quality.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>How? Most of the foods you listed are very low-calorie, so people would have to gorge
    > >>>>themselves in order to get sufficient zinc.
    > >>>
    > >>><..>
    > >>>
    > >>>>Not a strawman. Show us how easy it is to get enough zinc on a veg-n diet without resorting to
    > >>>>supplements. Put together a menu, complete with food weights, containing 22.5mg of veg-n zinc
    > >>>>for us.
    > >>
    > >>You whiffed. Wanna try again or give up now? And I'm not snipping just

    > >

    >
    > No, the charge was for you

    YOU don't charge me to do anything.

    > to put together a menu with food weights to reach 22.5mg of zinc. You didn't. If you even TRIED to
    > do it, you'd realize you'd have to drop your complaints about binge eaters -- that's exactly what
    > your diet, at least unsupplemented, requires to avoid zinc (and iron, btw) deficiency.

    Nonsense.

    >
    > Now, now, Chelsea.

    Liar.

    > No need to lash out just because you cannot support your claims.

    You wish.

    > >>>Zinc
    > >>>
    > >>>Zinc is important for optimal cell growth, rapid wound healing and proper functioning of the
    > >>>immune system. Animal products, especially meat, provide 70% of the zinc in the typical
    > >>>American diet. Vegetarian intake of zinc is lower than nonvegetarians and the absorption of
    > >>>zinc from plant is lower than from animal products. The RDA for zinc is 15 mg for men and 12 mg
    > >>>for women. There is some controversy over this figure. In the United States only a small
    > >>>percentage of individuals consume the recommended amount of zinc, and yet deficiencies are
    > >>>rarely seen. The World Health Organization recommends from one third to three quarters of the
    > >>>USA RDA. Well planned vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc. Good sources
    > >>>include: whole grain cereals, mushrooms, peas, sea vegetables, beans, tofu, tempeh, textured
    > >>>vegetable protein, nuts, wheat germ, milk, and cheeses.
    > >>>http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/foodguide/guidelin.html
    > >>
    > >>Most of the above contain phytates which bind zinc and prevent absorption.
    > >
    > > Which is why vegetarians need consume 50% more than the RDA.
    >
    > At least that much more. What do the serum studies show, though?

    Of vegetarians eating conventional produce? Irrelevant to my argument.

    > >>Milk and cheese contain very little zinc. One eight-ounce serving of milk contains only 5% USRDA
    > >>of zinc; I guess you'd get enough from drinking a gallon a day. I showed you how many pounds of
    > >>mushrooms it would take to get the RDA for zinc.
    > >
    > > 'Well planned vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc.'
    >
    > Which is zinc-deficient for males.

    When eating conventional produce. Irrelevant to my argument.

    > > It follows that well planned vegetarian diets. comprised of high quality produce, can provide as
    > > much as 32mg of zinc.
    >
    > Ipse dixit.

    Ipse dixit, liar.

    > -------------
    > Organic More Nutritious? Even the Organic Industry Doesn't Think So!

    You think the conventional 'food' industry didn't jump on the bandwagon?

    > by Alex Avery
    >
    > Is organic food more nutritious? The simple answer is no. While some studies have been trumpeted

    Hyperbole anyone?

    > as having finally shown the nutritional superiority of organic foods, other studies of similar
    > crops show either no difference or superiority of conventional produce. Many factors affect
    > nutrient and mineral content of food, especially produce (genetics, sunlight, moisture, pests,
    > harvest date/time of day, time lag from harvest to consumption, etc.). Any differences which may
    > result from the use of organic or conventional farming practices cannot be detected.

    The mineral content of organic food - Rutgers University USA

    Percentage of Quantities per 100 Grams Trace Elements. Parts per million Dry Weight Dry Weight
    Dry matter

    Vegetable: Mineral Ash Calcium Magnesium Boron Manganese Iron Copper Cobalt Snap Beans Organic 10.45
    40.5 60 73 60 227 69 0.26 Non-organic 4.04 15.5 14.8 10 2 10 3 0 Cabbage Organic 10.38 60 43.6 42 13
    94 48 0.15 Non-organic 6.12 17.5 13.6 7 2 20 0.4 0 Lettuce Organic 24.48 71 49.3 37 169 516 60 0.19
    Non-organic 7.01 16 13.1 6 1 9 3 0 Tomatoes Organic 14.2 23 59.2 36 68 1938 53 0.63 Non-organic 6.07
    4.5 4.5 3 1 1 0 0 Spinach Organic 28.56 96 203.9 88 117 1584 32 0.25 Non-organic 12.38 47.5 46.9 12
    1 49 0.3 0.2 http://www.organicnutrition.co.uk/whyorganic/whyorganic.htm.

    my oh my.

    > But don’t take our word for it.

    Of course not!!

    > Look at what others have had to say about this question:
    >
    > -- Even the organic foods industry has been forced to admit that their products offer no
    > significant nutritional advantages. Katherine DiMatteo, spokesperson for the U.S. Organic Trade
    > Association, was asked on ABC’s 20/20 (February 4, 2000) whether organic foods were more
    > nutritious than their conventional counterparts. She twice responded that “organic foods are as
    > nutritious as any other product.” Not more nutritious, merely “as nutritious.”

    'chemical isolation combined with nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy revealed that the
    organically-grown oranges contained 30% more vitamin C than the conventionally-grown fruits — even
    though they were only about half the size. '
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/06/020603071017.htm

    oops!

    > --The Tufts University Health & Nutrition letter
    > (http://www.phys.com/b_nutrition/02solutions/10tufts/tuftsqa/organic.htm) answered the
    > question of whether organic is more nutritious this way: “No one knows. The question is a
    > difficult one to study because of all the factors besides farming methods that could affect
    > nutritional quality, including soil type and climate. The evidence from the small body of
    > reliable studies available thus far does not show any significant differences between the
    > nutrient content of organically grown and conventionally grown food.”

    More research confirms organic food is better for you RESEARCH PAPER: ARCHIVED

    The Soil Association Organic Farming, Food Quality and Human Health report showed that the
    nutritional content of organic was higher than non-organic foods. New US research shows by how much.

    "While my review looked at the entire picture of nutritional food quality" says Shane Heaton, author
    of the Soil Association food quality report, "this research, by nutritionist Virginia Worthington,
    has looked specifically at the comparative vitamin and mineral contents, reviewing a similar
    collection of scientific studies.

    "Her research confirms our findings that, on average, organic produce contains significantly higher
    levels of vitamin C, iron, magnesium and phosphorus, and how seemingly small differences in
    nutrients can mean the difference between getting the recommended daily allowance - or failing to."

    All 21 minerals compared were higher in organic produce. ..'
    http://www.soilassociation.org/sa/saweb.nsf/librarytitles/Articles10122001.html

    > --UC Davis nutritionist Dr. Gail Feenstra says, “As much as I'd like to say yes,
    > unfortunately the evidence doesn't show that it is. The studies are equivocal; there are no
    > definitive studies that show that organic is much better than conventionally-produced
    > produce."

    Organic food IS more nutritious, especially if fresh, and eating it is vital to good health; let
    those who claim otherwise try to prove their case! I still see articles in reputable magazines
    stating that there is no nutritional difference between organic produce and regular supermarket
    food. I've even repeatedly received this erroneous information from Agricultural Extension offices
    and Professors of Agriculture at “reputable” State Universities...although one Professor, probably
    safely tenured, told me in hushed tones that “of course, most of our funding comes from chemical
    companies.” http://www.living-foods.com/articles/organicnutritious.html

    > --Consumer Reports, a magazine that strongly favors organic foods (and has recommended it
    > several times in the past), wrote this after its own evaluation of organic foods Dec. 15,
    > 1997. (available at www.consumerreports.com/Special/News/Reports/9712n001.html): “Yet organic
    > produce tastes no different than ‘conventionally’ grown produce, and any nutritional
    > differences there might be between them are likely so subtle as to evade detection.”

    'Evaluation of validity of studies Of the 99 studies found, claiming or claimed to make a direct
    comparison of the nutritional quality of organic and non-organic produce, 70 were rejected as
    invalid comparisons for the following reasons: insufficient duration (27), incorrect or unknown
    practices (23), absence of relevant quality comparisons
    (14) and republished results of previous experiments (6). Of the 29 remaining valid studies, 14
    compare mineral contents, 13 compare vitamin C contents and 19 compare the dry matter content
    of organic and non-organic produce.

    Results Against a background of declining mineral levels in fresh produce over the last sixty years
    (Mayer 1997), and given that many people fail to achieve the recommended daily allowance for a
    variety of nutrients (MAFF 1996, Clayton 2001), the nutrient contents of organic and non-organic
    produce are worthy of comparison. ..

    While similar controlled studies in humans are difficult, clinical experience and recorded
    observations have suggested similar benefits in human reproductive health (Foresight), recovery
    from illness (Plaskett 1999) and general health (Daldy 1940) from the consumption of organically
    produced food.

    http://www.organic.aber.ac.uk/library/Assessing%20organic%20food%20quality.pdf.

    > -- Canada’s Manitoba Agriculture and Food agency
    > (www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/homeec/cbd03s01.htm) had this to say: “Nutritional value of plants
    > depends on genetics, availability of water, amount of sunlight, maturity when picked, how
    > long it took to come to market and whether it was properly handled and refrigerated. Numerous
    > laboratory tests have not found any substantial nutritional differences in organically and
    > conventionally grown produce.”

    'Mineral content: This may be the most important nutritional difference between organic and regular
    produce since heavy use of fertilizer inhibits absorbtion of some minerals, which are likely to be
    at lower levels to begin with in soils that have been abused. This may be caused in part by the lack
    of beneficial mycorrhizae fungi on the roots since high levels of fertilizer tend to kill them.
    Standard diets tend to be low in various minerals, resulting in a variety of problems including
    osteoporosis. .. The Baer report (Rutgers Univ., 1984) "Variations in Mineral Contents of
    Vegetables" contained information on organic versus regular crops.

    Levels of minerals in regular crops as a percentage of levels in organic crops ash boron manganese
    iron copper cobalt snap beans 40% 15% 2% 5% 5% 0% cabbage 60% 15% 15% 21% 0% 0% lettuce 30% 15% 1%
    2% 5% 0% tomatoes 40% 10% 1% 0% 0% 0% spinach 40% 15% 1% 1% 0% 0%

    (Since I rounded, a zero does not mean total absence in the regular crop)'
    http://math.ucsd.edu/~ebender/Health%20&%20Nutrition/Foods/organic.html

    > --The Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs
    > (http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/research/researchfund/fs2docs/fs7061.htm): “Various
    > comparisons have been made on the nutrient content of plants and on other components of
    > nutritional quality. Although differences can be found they are not consistent among the
    > different experiments that have been conducted. Varying the soil nutrients or other growing
    > conditions could conceivably produce similar results. There is no conclusive evidence that
    > crops grown organically are either inferior or superior nutritionally. There are major
    > differences between experiments and among crops within the same experiment.”

    'The emphasis of organic agriculture on feeding soils is the primary step in achieving products of
    high nutritional content. An understanding of nutritional balance, physical and biophysical soil
    composition underpins a successful organic farming system. ' http://www.rirdc.gov.au/pub/org5yr3.htm

    > Dr. Clarence Swanton, professor in the Department of Plant Agriculture at the University of
    > Guelph, Ontario, Canada says, “There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that I am aware of
    > that [organic food] is nutritionally better for you.”
    > http://www.cgfi.org/materials/articles/1999/oct_18_97.htm

    Study Denying Nutritional Benefits of Organic Was Bogus .. Zinc levels, one of the more interesting
    comparisons given it's importance as a trace mineral in human health and because many people are not
    able to obtain the recommended daily allowance, described as 'negligible', are reported as the same
    level in all twenty crops, which is often 100 percent higher than the conventional food table
    figures. Clearly the zinc levels were not properly assessed.
    http://www.organicconsumers.org/Organic/bogusstudy071902.cfm

    > ----------
    > See also: http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/OrganicNutrition.html

    'According to the USDA, the calcium content of an apple has declined from 13.5 mg in 1914 to 7 mg in
    1992. The iron content has declined from 4.6 mg in 1914 to 0.18 mg in 1992. .. A study published in
    the Journal of Applied Nutrition, Vol. 45, #1, 1993 compared the nutrient content of supermarket
    food versus organically grown food from food stores in the Chicago area. The organic produce
    averaged twice the mineral content of the supermarket food
    http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/organic_agriculture.htm

    > http://www.ivillage.co.uk/food/cook/health/articles/0,10103,164370_526834,00.html

    Organic oats have much higher levels of essential nutrients than conventional

    As the chart below shows, preliminary nutritional analysis of oat plants from The Rodale Institute's
    Farming Systems Trial found that the organic plants had increases of up to 74 percent in nutrient
    content over conventionally grown plants, suggesting an answer to the perennial question, "Is
    organic better?" http://www.newfarm.org/columns/jeff_moyer/1003.shtml

    > http://www.nature.com/nsu/000831/000831-4.html

    A study commissioned by the Organic Retailers and Growers Association of Australia (ORGAA) found
    that conventionally grown fruit and vegetables purchased in supermarkets and other commercial retail
    outlets had ten times less mineral content than fruit and vegetables grown organically. Source:
    Organic Retailers and Growers Association of Australia, 2000, as cited in Pesticides and You, Vol.
    20, No. 1, Spring 2000, News from Beyond Pesticides/National Coalition Against the Misuse of
    Pesticides. http://www.organicconnection.net/nutritional.html

    > >>>* 'Studies have shown that the mineral content of foods such as fruit and vegetables has
    > >>>decreased over the years. A study by David Thomas makes alarming reading. Using government data
    > >>>on the chemical composition of various foods between 1940-1991, Thomas shows, for example, that
    > >>>for seven vegetables analysed between 1978-1991 the average reduction in zinc was 59% and for
    > >>>copper it was a staggering 72%.
    > >>>
    > >>>A reduction in the mineral content of food may apply equally across the board to organic and
    > >>>non-organic food because neither organic or conventional farmers replace the all-important
    > >>>trace minerals such as zinc in the soil.
    > >>>http://www.familiesonline.co.uk/topics/health/health_organic_food_farming.htm
    > >>
    > >>Crap.
    > >
    > > Ipse dixit, liar.
    >
    > See above. Not ipse dixit.

    See above yourself.

    > >>>'Over a two-year period, Bob Smith, the study's author and president of Doctor's Data, a trace
    > >>>minerals laboratory in West Chicago, Ill., compared organic and conventional apples, pears,
    > >>>potatoes, corn and wheat. Among his findings: The organic produce contained, on average, 63 per
    > >>>cent more calcium, 59 per cent more iron and 60 per cent more zinc; overall, the organic foods
    > >>>contained more of 20 out of 22 trace elements studied.
    > >>>http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/SF/Summer%2094%20A.htm ) *
    > >>
    > >>Evasion.
    > >
    > > We know.
    >
    > Go on then, skank,

    You filthy liar.

    > put together a diet with weights showing how much food must be consumed for a veg-n to get a full
    > RDA of zinc.

    http://www.vegsource.com/talk/beginner/messages/127559.html

    From: USual sUSpect ([email protected]) Subject: Re: general comment on NG Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan,
    alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian Date: 2003-05-10 15:21:21 PST

    <snip of 5,945,241 groups> Chive Mynde wrote: <snip>
    > Vegans, for the most part, don't have any energy. They are suffering from malnutrtion.

    I ran 8 miles this morning. Rode my bike > 50 miles this afternoon, cooled off with an hour-long
    swim (didn't keep track of distance). And tomorrow is my heavy training day. Yeah, I must be
    malnourished and fatigued. How far can you run, loser?

    ---------------
    But how on earth do you manage to consume all the calories required, eh, you nasty lying
    murderous creep?
     
  4. finger-counting chelsea wrote: <snip>
    >
    > I ran 8 miles this morning. Rode my bike > 50 miles this afternoon, cooled off with an hour-long
    > swim (didn't keep track of distance). And tomorrow is my heavy training day. Yeah, I must be
    > malnourished and fatigued. How far can you run, loser?
    >
    > ---------------
    > But how on earth do you manage to consume all the calories required, eh, you nasty lying
    > murderous creep?

    My diet is very rich in whole grains, especially brown rice, and breads. I also eat lots of nuts and
    use olive oil in just about everything I cook. I consume Clif Bars and other calorie-dense foods
    both while I work out and after.
     
  5. Once upon a time, our fellow pearl rambled on about "Re: Testicle Size and Diet." Our champion
    De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    Another fine quality science-based post on smn. :(

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
     
  6. > 'Over a two-year period, Bob Smith, the study's author and president
    > of Doctor's Data, a trace minerals laboratory in West Chicago, Ill.,
    > compared organic and conventional apples, pears, potatoes, corn and
    > wheat. Among his findings: The organic produce contained, on average,
    > 63 per cent more calcium, 59 per cent more iron and 60 per cent more
    > zinc; overall, the organic foods contained more of 20 out of 22 trace
    > elements studied.
    > http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/SF/Summer%2094%20A.htm
    >
    > USDA# and ORGANIC (remineralized soil)* Food
    Zinc-mg.
    > Description
    /1000 Cal.
    >
    <snip>

    # *
    > Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00
    48.00
    > Asparagus, cooked, boiled, drained 17.86
    49.57
    > Beans, snap, green, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 10.23 16.33

    > Seaweed, kelp, raw
    50.00 48

    What? remineralized sea water?? I don't believe it. Is someone planning to remineralize the Pacific
    Ocean with zinc;-)? I mean other the clown that whats to add iron to ocean to lower CO2 in the
    atmosphere.

    I could believe the other numbers but I find myself wondering whether the numbers were just made up
    given the seaweed numbers.

    <snip>

    > Spinach, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt - - 33.41
    51.46
     
  7. Pearl

    Pearl Guest

    "William A. Noyes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > > 'Over a two-year period, Bob Smith, the study's author and president of Doctor's Data, a trace
    > > minerals laboratory in West Chicago, Ill., compared organic and conventional apples, pears,
    > > potatoes, corn and wheat. Among his findings: The organic produce contained, on average, 63 per
    > > cent more calcium, 59 per cent more iron and 60 per cent more zinc; overall, the organic foods
    > > contained more of 20 out of 22 trace elements studied.
    > > http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/MagRack/SF/Summer%2094%20A.htm
    > >
    > > USDA# and ORGANIC (remineralized soil)* Food
    > Zinc-mg.
    > > Description
    > /1000 Cal.
    > >
    > <snip>
    >
    > # *
    > > Alfalfa seed, sprouted, raw - - - - - 30.00 48.00 Asparagus, cooked, boiled, drained 17.86 28.57
    > > Beans, snap, green, cooked, boiled, drained, w/o salt 10.23 16.33
    >
    >
    > > Seaweed, kelp, raw 30.00 48
    >
    > What? remineralized sea water?? I don't believe it.

    lol, neither would I !

    > Is someone planning to remineralize the Pacific Ocean with zinc;-)?

    Stop, willya. ;).

    > I mean other the clown that whats to add iron to ocean to lower CO2 in the atmosphere.
    >
    > I could believe the other numbers but I find myself wondering whether the numbers were just made
    > up given the seaweed numbers.

    No, an appalling and inexcusable oversight, on my behalf. :(

    Now, considering the results of the Rutgers University study, as follows;

    The mineral content of organic food - Rutgers University USA

    Percentage of | Quantities per 100 Grams | Trace Elements. Parts per million
    Dry Weight Dry Weight Dry matter

    Vegetable: Mineral Ash Calcium Magnesium Boron Manganese Iron Copper Cobalt Snap Beans Organic 10.45
    40.5 60 73 60 227 69 0.26 Non-organic 4.04 15.5 14.8 10 2 10 3 0 Cabbage Organic 10.38 60 43.6 42 13
    94 48 0.15 Non-organic 6.12 17.5 13.6 7 2 20 0.4 0 Lettuce Organic 24.48 71 49.3 37 169 516 60 0.19
    Non-organic 7.01 16 13.1 6 1 9 3 0 Tomatoes Organic 14.2 23 59.2 36 68 1938 53 0.63 Non-organic 6.07
    4.5 4.5 3 1 1 0 0 Spinach Organic 28.56 96 203.9 88 117 1584 32 0.25 Non-organic 12.38 47.5 46.9 12
    1 49 0.3 0.2 http://www.organicnutrition.co.uk/whyorganic/whyorganic.htm ],

    .. what might the zinc content of organic produce grown in mineral-replete soil be?

    And doesn't this go a long way in explaining why mineral deficiency is common.

    (BTW, those 'zinc rich' livestock are always given a mineral supplement).

    <..
     
  8. > Zinc is important for optimal cell growth, rapid wound healing and proper functioning of the
    > immune system. Animal products, especially meat, provide 70% of the zinc in the typical American
    > diet. Vegetarian intake of zinc is lower than nonvegetarians and the absorption of zinc from plant
    > is lower than from animal products. The RDA for zinc is 15 mg for men and 12 mg for women. There
    > is some controversy over this figure. In the United States only a small percentage of individuals
    > consume the recommended amount of zinc, and yet deficiencies are rarely seen.

    More likely rarely recognized. Low zinc status tends to raise estrogen to testosterone ratio in
    middle aged and elderly males. An MD would recognize low zinc status if it bit him in the ass.

    > The World Health Organization recommends from one third to three quarters of the USA RDA. Well
    > planned vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc. Good sources include: whole grain
    > cereals, mushrooms, peas, sea vegetables, beans, tofu, tempeh, textured vegetable protein, nuts,
    > wheat germ, milk, and cheeses. http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/foodguide/guidelin.html
    >
    > *
     
  9. "> Most of the above contain phytates which bind zinc and prevent
    > absorption. Milk and cheese contain very little zinc. One eight-ounce serving of milk contains
    > only 5% USRDA of zinc; I guess you'd get enough from drinking a gallon a day. I showed you how
    > many pounds of mushrooms it would take to get the RDA for zinc.

    I recall reading a paper on young males with delayed male development due to low zinc levels. They
    were mainly eating unleaven whole wheat bread as a primary staple. Yeast leavening flour serves to
    breakdown phytates and makes more of the mineral content available to the consumer. This took place
    in Iraq under the rulership of Saddam
     
  10. "William A. Noyes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > Zinc is important for optimal cell growth, rapid wound healing and proper functioning of the
    > > immune system. Animal products, especially meat, provide 70% of the zinc in the typical American
    > > diet. Vegetarian intake of zinc is lower than nonvegetarians and the absorption of zinc from
    > > plant is lower than from animal products. The RDA for zinc is 15 mg for men and 12 mg for women.
    > > There is some controversy over this figure. In the United States only a small percentage of
    > > individuals consume the recommended amount of zinc, and yet deficiencies are rarely seen.
    >
    > More likely rarely recognized. Low zinc status tends to raise estrogen to testosterone ratio in
    > middle aged and elderly males. An MD would recognize low zinc status if it bit him in the ass.

    I meant "wouldn't"...........darned typos the wine did it......I swear

    >
    >
    > > The World Health Organization recommends from one third to three quarters of the USA RDA. Well
    > > planned vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20mg of zinc. Good sources include: whole grain
    > > cereals, mushrooms, peas, sea vegetables, beans, tofu, tempeh, textured vegetable protein,
    > > nuts, wheat germ, milk, and cheeses. http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/foodguide/guidelin.html
    > >
    > > *
    > >
    >
     
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