THANK YOU Vision! SORRY to see you go!



E

Ez Biker :-\)

Guest
It is with Great sadness that I've come to learn of Vision Recumbent Bicycle Company's demise. After
my Rebike, my first real taste of a performance recumbent was a Vision R-40. Later on I purchased a
second Vision in that of a R-45 and enjoyed both bikes immensely. Had I not had front feet / toe
numbness issues (Due to wearing TOO TIGHT of bike shoes) back then; I'd surely probably still be
enjoying either of my Visions. Clearly in my belief, the duel wheel bikes that are out on the market
today are surely possible, due to your introduction of the Saber. It's truly sad to see such a
dedicated company and individuals go to the sidelines in this fashion. For what it's worth, I wish
you Joel and fellow Vision associates the BEST in your future endeavors and I (And I'm sure many
others) will never forget your WONDERFUL accomplishments and innovations you all brought to the
recumbent bicycle world.

EZ Biker :) Pompano Beach, Fl. (Bacchetta Aero Pilot)
 
S

Steve Christens

Guest
In article <[email protected]_s02>, EZ Biker :-\) says...
>
>It is with Great sadness that I've come to learn of Vision Recumbent Bicycle Company's demise.
>After my Rebike, my first real taste of a performance recumbent was a Vision R-40. Later on I
>purchased a second Vision in that of a R-45 and enjoyed both bikes immensely. Had I not had front
>feet / toe numbness issues (Due to wearing TOO TIGHT of bike shoes) back then; I'd surely probably
>still be enjoying either of my Visions. Clearly in my belief, the duel wheel bikes that are out on
>the market today are surely possible, due to your introduction of the Saber. It's truly sad to see
>such a dedicated company and individuals go to the sidelines in this fashion. For what it's worth,
>I wish you Joel and fellow Vision associates the BEST in your future endeavors and I (And I'm sure
>many others) will never forget your WONDERFUL accomplishments and innovations you all brought to
>the recumbent bicycle world.
>
>EZ Biker :) Pompano Beach, Fl. (Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

Allow me to second that sentiment. Nothing has ever been as comfortable for me as the Vision
seat. And as a lover of USS I am also sad to see the demise of one of the foremost proponents of
this design.

Steve Christensen Vision VR-32 Vision VR-42 RANS V2
 
D

Derek Swift

Guest
I never owned a Vision myself, but I am saddened by this loss too.

Derek
 
D

Derek Swift

Guest
> Where is it written, confirmed that Vision is kaput? Inquiring minds want to know.

Bentrider Online's STP section for starters.

Derek
 
W

Wheel Doctor

Guest
There has been no real conformation but the fact is that the essential equipment to run the business
has been for sale for over two months. ATP was also involved is other areas such as wheel building
and bike assembely for other companies. ATP/Vision was leader for many years in the recumbent arena.
I am saddened by their apparent demise. As I am by Haluzak closing up shop. Its not easy to make a
go of it in the bike business in general. Let alone in as small a market as recumbents.

Jude

"Derek Swift" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Where is it written, confirmed that Vision is kaput? Inquiring minds
want
> > to know.
>
> Bentrider Online's STP section for starters.
>
> Derek
 
M

Marci Taylor

Guest
"Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> There has been no real conformation but the fact is that the essential equipment to run the
> business has been for sale for over two months. ATP was also involved is other areas such as wheel
> building and bike assembely for other companies. ATP/Vision was leader for many years in the
> recumbent arena. I am saddened by their apparent demise. As I am by Haluzak closing up shop. Its
> not easy to make a go of it in the bike business in general. Let alone in as small a market as
> recumbents.
>
> Jude
>
>
>
> "Derek Swift" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > Where is it written, confirmed that Vision is kaput? Inquiring minds
> want
> > > to know.
> >
> > Bentrider Online's STP section for starters.
> >
> > Derek

What is going on here......? Vision is or WAS the largest recumbent manufacturer in the United
states. I don't get it?????? Is the recumbent market actually losing market share??????? I love my
Saber and also loved my R45 when I owned it. Marci
 
S

Stratrider

Guest
Hey Jude.... What's this about Haluzak closing too? By the way, I am loving that Strada I bought
from you last year (though it has been collecting dust for about two months! WINTER ICE AND SNOW
AND COLD).

Jim Reilly Reading, PA
 
J

Jon Meinecke

Guest
"Marci Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> What is going on here......? Vision is or WAS the largest recumbent manufacturer in the United
> states. I don't get it??????

Competition? Hard economic times? Personal, private issues of the owners? Gone fishin'? Changes in
customer tastes? ...

Businesses close their doors for many reasons, not all of which may be classified as failures.
Perhaps someone in the industry or with personal ties may have actual insight into why Vision is
apparently closing.

> Is the recumbent market actually losing market share???????

The successes of the B-Bikes may be (slightly) increasing recumbent bike market share to the extent
that they appeal to a "cross-over" market. The EZ bikes may be increasing market share by widening
available price points.

Are there any actual reliable measurements of recumbent bike sales?

Jon Meinecke
 
M

Mike S

Guest
> What is going on here......? Vision is or WAS the largest recumbent manufacturer in the United
> states. I don't get it?????? Is the recumbent market actually losing market share??????? I love my
> Saber and also loved my R45 when I owned it. Marci

Not an economist here, but from what I have been told or had suggested, it comes down to the very
close profit margins, high costs of production and image. Remember the line: "I was losing money on
each unit so I tried to make it up on volume." No doubt Vision was a nice product but it didn't seem
to evolve. The newer players like Cycle Genius and Sun on the lower end and Bacchetta and Volae on
the higher end just seem to steal the attention of the public. Last year at the Midwest Recumbent
Rally everyone wanted to ride the Bacchettas. Very limited interest in the Vision. I agree with all,
they were some very nice bikes. The Saber was (to me) the nicest handling of the dual 26ers. But it
seemed the company just didn't seem to keep up. No criticism, just my own two cents worth. Decent
results when they were the only game in town (as they were for many years in St. Louis). But they
seemed to become the older guy when the new recumbents began to show up.

Mike S. St. Louis, Mo.
 
D

Derek Swift

Guest
mike s wrote: No doubt Vision was a
> nice product but it didn't seem to evolve. The newer players like Cycle Genius and Sun on
> the lower end and Bacchetta and Volae on the higher end just seem to steal the attention of
> the public.

I agree with this. Vision's SWBs were nice but always seemed to be one or two static designs. Not
that this is bad, but they faded out when new styles came to be.

Derek
 
E

Evsolutions

Guest
Hi Someone did do a few estimates of the numbers sold in the USA in 2000/01 and did another one just
for bent trikes. I think Ricky Horwitz was trying to get a number for the trike market before he
opened Hell-Bent. I don't remember the numbers, other than it was much lower than I thought it was.

One factor when wondering about why bent companies fold is that we do NOT toss our bikes into the
dumpster and go buy a new one. DF cyclists place a lower value on what they ride (under $500.00
bikes). If a DF cyclist cracks a frame they throw away the frame, we do it and we repair the crack.
Bents are usually built to last decades and we mother our bikes/trikes. Companies like Vision sell
a bike and the best they can hope for is that you buy a 2nd bike from them and they will see you
again in 10 years. KHS or TREK sells you a bike and and they will sell you another bike every
couple of years.

What has floored me is the number of bents entering the USA from Europe and few American bents going
into Europe. Other thing that floors me is the number of companies doing bents. Seems like every
week a new bent maker appears and then we have the homebuilders to contend with. You do not see too
many Homebuilt DFs appearing.

What is killing bent makers is way too many companies in a very small market....a market that is
likely smaller than anyone thinks it is.

Joshua
*****
.
>
> Are there any actual reliable measurements of recumbent bike sales?
>
> Jon Meinecke
 
B

Bryan Ball

Guest
Haluzak's not closing exactly. Just scaling back to pretty much just made-to-order work. You can buy
framesets but not complete bikes for the time being.

"stratrider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey Jude.... What's this about Haluzak closing too? By the way, I am loving that Strada I bought
> from you last year (though it has been collecting dust for about two months! WINTER ICE AND SNOW
> AND COLD).
>
> Jim Reilly Reading, PA

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.588 / Virus Database: 372 - Release Date: 2/13/2004
 
J

Jack Davis

Guest
Go to many LBSs and you will find that about 90 percent of them have no 'bents on display. If they
do, it usually and EZ1. (best selling! any wonder?!) Recumbent builders don"t want their bikes sold
mail order and do about all they can to discourage it. They think their bikes are on display in many
stores because they delivered some to some stores once. Most of those bikes were ordered by
customers and delivered. The stores all say the same things, like. "we can order one for you". Well,
thanks but I can do that myself and save some money too....

Until manufactures figure out a way to have a "floor plan" for bike dealers that will allow a
large number of stores to carry a number of bents in their inventory sales are going to be few and
far between.

Anyone with a torch and some tubing can makes bikes...the trick is selling them in sufficient
numbers to make it into an ongoing business. One needs to be 25 percent builder and 75 percent
business person. The reverse will not work for long...

Now if my new wheels would just get here......

jd


"EVSolutions" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Someone did do a few estimates of the numbers sold in the USA in 2000/01
and
> did another one just for bent trikes. I think Ricky Horwitz was trying to get a number for the
> trike market before he opened Hell-Bent. I don't remember the numbers, other than it was much
> lower than I thought it was.
>
> One factor when wondering about why bent companies fold is that we do NOT toss our bikes into the
> dumpster and go buy a new one. DF cyclists place a lower value on what they ride (under $500.00
> bikes). If a DF cyclist
cracks
> a frame they throw away the frame, we do it and we repair the crack. Bents are usually built to
> last decades and we mother our bikes/trikes.
Companies
> like Vision sell a bike and the best they can hope for is that you buy a
2nd
> bike from them and they will see you again in 10 years. KHS or TREK sells you a bike and and they
> will sell you another bike every couple of years.
>
> What has floored me is the number of bents entering the USA from Europe
and
> few American bents going into Europe. Other thing that floors me is the number of companies doing
> bents. Seems like every week a new bent maker appears and then we have the homebuilders to contend
> with. You do not see too many Homebuilt DFs appearing.
>
> What is killing bent makers is way too many companies in a very small market....a market that is
> likely smaller than anyone thinks it is.
>
> Joshua
> *****
> .
> >
> > Are there any actual reliable measurements of recumbent bike sales?
> >
> > Jon Meinecke
 
B

Brian Zupke

Guest
It seems to me that the two things that work against 'bent market share are the stigma associated
with 'bents and the cost of entry. I think the attitude of some of my DF bike club members is
common. I hear comments like, "I'm not old enough to NEED a recumbent."

Most 'bents are so expensive that many cannot even consider buying one to have as a second or third
bike. I myself am not in a position to buy one, so I've been building an EZ clone out of junk bikes
(so far, my biggest expense has been a new front wheel at $20.00 since none of the junk 20" wheels
were any good).

If some decent recumbents were available at a low price (under $600), then more people who are
interested in owning one would likely buy one. If more people bought and rode them, then they would
be more visible on the road and people would have a greater opportunity to learn that they are just
plain fun to ride.

The existing situation is a catch-22. Because of the low volume of sales, prices have to be high.
Because of the high prices, fewer people are going to buy them. This reminds me of the computer
languages Smalltalk (an object oriented language) and Java. Smalltalk vendors were selling a
development environment for $1,000's. This meant that only companies who were serious about the
technology would invest in its use. As a result, Smalltalk programmers were very hard to come by.
Both factors resulted in very few people using the technology. Then along comes Java which is given
away free. Development environments are given away free or sold very cheaply. Everybody and their
grandmother started programming in Java. Companies have had no problem in finding Java programmers.
Today. Java is everywhere and Smalltalk is still just a very small niche market (or maybe it's even
going away - I've moved from Smalltalk to Java a long time ago so don't know first hand).

-Brian

Jack Davis wrote:

>Go to many LBSs and you will find that about 90 percent of them have no 'bents on display. If they
>do, it usually and EZ1. (best selling! any wonder?!) Recumbent builders don"t want their bikes sold
>mail order and do about all they can to discourage it. They think their bikes are on display in
>many stores because they delivered some to some stores once. Most of those bikes were ordered by
>customers and delivered. The stores all say the same things, like. "we can order one for you".
>Well, thanks but I can do that myself and save some money too....
>
>
>
>
>

--
http://home.earthlink.net/~bzupke/index.html Bike Friday Club:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bfclubieca/ Cycling Connection: http://www.cyclingconnection.com/
 
C

Curtis L . Russ

Guest
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:39:08 -0500, "EVSolutions"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>If a DF cyclist cracks a frame they throw away the frame, we do it and we repair the crack. Bents
>are usually built to last decades and we mother our bikes/trikes. Companies like Vision sell a bike
>and the best they can hope for is that you buy a 2nd bike from them and they will see you again in
>10 years.

When I spent the equivalent of about $ 2,500 in current dollars for a racing DF frame or a touring
DF frame, I paid to have the frame repaied and repainted. The high-end market for DF frames is not
dissimlar in that area.

I think it is still the simple reason that no matter how the market has grown, recumbent riders are
still a minority. That feeds issues of cost on the manufacturing side, on the distribution model and
on the ability to do final discounts and still survive.

If (and I don't know) there are a lot of Vision bikes out there in the bike shops, they may have a
market impact on other manufacturers this year. When a company is in bankruptcy, they will take
pennies on the dollar on inventory to close the process and be done.

You may hear people on the list talking about the really great deal they got on a Vision 'remnant'
in February, and the same person wondering why another SWB manufacturer goes out of business in May
or June. A volume producer going out of business with inventory is a very unhealthy development at
this time of year - going into spring when people buy. That said, I may check the last of the
Visions out...

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...
 
B

Bentbiker

Guest
I disagree, Vision's new slotted front boom for proper centering and quick release boom with
chain take-up, should be an industry standard, the had innovation, but I don't think either
they publicized it enough, or people just didn't notice in our "I want the latest, greatest
product" society.

mike s wrote:
>>What is going on here......? Vision is or WAS the largest recumbent manufacturer in the United
>>states. I don't get it?????? Is the recumbent market actually losing market share??????? I love my
>>Saber and also loved my R45 when I owned it. Marci
>
>
>
> Not an economist here, but from what I have been told or had suggested, it comes down to the very
> close profit margins, high costs of production and image. Remember the line: "I was losing money
> on each unit so I tried to make it up on volume." No doubt Vision was a nice product but it didn't
> seem to evolve. The newer players like Cycle Genius and Sun on the lower end and Bacchetta and
> Volae on the higher end just seem to steal the attention of the public. Last year at the Midwest
> Recumbent Rally everyone wanted to ride the Bacchettas. Very limited interest in the Vision. I
> agree with all, they were some very nice bikes. The Saber was (to me) the nicest handling of the
> dual 26ers. But it seemed the company just didn't seem to keep up. No criticism, just my own two
> cents worth. Decent results when they were the only game in town (as they were for many years in
> St. Louis). But they seemed to become the older guy when the new recumbents began to show up.
>
> Mike S. St. Louis, Mo.
 
W

Wheel Doctor

Guest
Jim, Well not exactly. Haluzak is still in business but only in custom framesets. Glad you are
enjoying the Strada.

Jude

"stratrider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey Jude.... What's this about Haluzak closing too? By the way, I am loving that Strada I bought
> from you last year (though it has been collecting dust for about two months! WINTER ICE AND SNOW
> AND COLD).
>
> Jim Reilly Reading, PA
 
M

Markku Poysti

Guest
>the had innovation, but I don't think either they publicized it enough,

I tried sometimes to ask by email about five technical questions when something broke in my Vision,
and also asked if this is guarantee issue. The marketing person just answered that this is my own
fault, so no free replacement parts, and did not give any technical help.

The frame is still not straight, and i still do not know how to measure or straighten it.